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143 Comments
- SilentSpyder, on 07/16/2009, -7/+72I remember being pissed off when Bush did something like this. You call this Change?
- bepeace, on 07/16/2009, -2/+58Posted in politics rather than environment for two reasons. First this needs to be countered "politically", write your senators, your congress person, the forest service the EPA. Support environmental groups that will take this fight to Washington again, again, again, again.
Secondly National Forest logging is always a raw deal for taxpayers. Talk about nationalized industries, the only thing about National Forest logging that is not nationalized is the profit. We build the roads and other infrastructure, we let them cut our trees for a nominal fee, (and sometimes for free), then they sell them back to us -- our own trees -- as what, laminated flooring? chairs? toilet paper? We subsidize the destruction of our natural treasure.
Many people and organizations have worked for decades to protect the Tongass, now they're working to protect, "what's left of the Tongass". Please add your voice to the fight. - bepeace, on 07/16/2009, -4/+34Utah Phillips said it best:
"We, the American People, are enormously wealthy. You know that? Who owns all of those trees in the national forests? (This is not a rhetorical question.) We do! Who owns all of that off-shore oil you read about in the newspaper, huh? We do! Who owns all of those minerals under the federal lands? We do! It’s public property, you know. But we elect people to go to Washington—who are those *****?—what have we gotten ourselves into now?—they go to Washington, they lease off what we own, public property, to private companies to sell us back our own stuff for the sake of a greasy buck. That’s dumb."
Greenpeace, NRDC, The Sierra Club, & Earthjustice are some of the partners in the fight to protect the Tongass... - inactive, on 07/16/2009, -3/+29Crap.
- jchaines, on 07/16/2009, -3/+27double crap
- travelina, on 07/16/2009, -1/+24Alex Chadwick wrote about the Tongass for National Geographic in 2007, and he made the point that It's not just rain forest, but it's old growth temperate rain forest, "an exceptionally rich ecosystem that holds more organic matter—more biomass—per acre than any other, including tropical jungles."
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2007/07/tongass/ ...
Some gorgeous photos of the forest here, by National Geographic's Melissa Farlow: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2007/07/tongass/ ... - yuduke, on 07/16/2009, -4/+26I campaigned for Obama. I went door-to-door. My state, Virginia, voted for Obama - the first time in 40 years this redneck state have voted for a Democrat.
Now I am pissed.
The honeymoon is now officially over for me. The Tongass is the straw that broke my camel's back. I can't believe Obama did this. I am shocked, disappointed, and angry. - odnaryperson, on 07/16/2009, -2/+24Well, they are certainly changing the forest...
- pitdog, on 07/16/2009, -10/+28Almost every day gullible voters are discovering what kinda "change" they can believe in. It's just like the late George Carlin said, no matter what side of the aisle, all politicians ***** you, this great society, in the ass. Without lube.
- inactive, on 07/16/2009, -1/+18I can't say I approve of this.
- clvngodess, on 07/16/2009, -2/+18and changing our standard of living, our wages, our level of indebtedness... sigh.
- elcalrissian, on 07/16/2009, -5/+182 points:
Wouldnt this country use timber more effectively if paper production was based on Hemp Stock and not Timber Stock.
How is this use of federal land any different than the debate over ANWR?
Shows the truth in Politics. The public demonizes the Oil Industry, therefore ANWR remains closed; yet a similar pristine environment gets the Death Sentance because the public isnt in majority outrage about the Timber Industry. - skyisland, on 07/16/2009, -6/+19Say it ain't so.. What chance does a forest like the Tongass have to grow back now that global warming is predicted to rise twice as fast as the IPCC said just several years ago according to the latest and most comprehensive study at MIT? Some of those trees are 400 years old! What chance do they have? Where is our credibility here in the US to complain about what other nations do with their tropical forests which are undeniably so critical to any chance of stopping global warming when we let the timber industry have its way. Where is the distinction between corporate greed and organized crime? Where does it stop? Where are the road less lands that are safe from exploitation?
- Doc123, on 07/16/2009, -4/+17i wouldn't be surprised if the companies that got the rights are major Obama donors.
- dreamweaver1984, on 07/17/2009, -3/+15"cough" hypocrite "cough"
- drinking12many, on 07/17/2009, -0/+10abundant enough they dont have to go to a national forest to get them maybe???
- TheInformer, on 07/17/2009, -2/+13Hey, how's that "hope and change" going?
- pathouston22, on 07/17/2009, -3/+12Oh look, another one to add to my list. This is exciting!
1. Will raise taxes through cap and trade, lied like a Bush
2. Won't release White House guest list, covered up like a Bush
3. Defend's Bush's wiretapping, breaks the law like a Bush
4. Chopping trees in Alaska, ruins the environment like a Bush
Obama = Bush
Except that he spends more than Bush. - Ddraig, on 07/16/2009, -5/+14No wonder his approval ratings are going down.....
Why the hell not just cancel the parks program and get rid of our national parks if they're going to pull crap like this that would save our budget.
They're protected for a reason... - funkedup, on 07/17/2009, -2/+11The Obama lovefest is stronger than you can imagine...
- Sogladtobehere, on 07/17/2009, -4/+12This is not the change we were promised. Is it time to riot yet?
- nirvanix, on 07/17/2009, -0/+8Obama = Black Bush
- squicker, on 07/17/2009, -6/+14
But, But, But... Hes Different Right? He's not like those other old mean politic guy's right? He Loves us, and wants to take care of us right?
GOOD JOB SHEEP. ENJOY THE COOL KOOL-AID - merky1, on 07/17/2009, -0/+7Trees are renewable, true. But this isn't just an easy to use, documented farm forest. This is an out of the way, difficult to work, PROTECTED forest. This is kind of the logging industry raising a HUGE middle finger to the rest of the country.
- travelina, on 07/16/2009, -1/+7Oops I meant Doug Chadwick, not former NPR correspondent Alex Chadwick, wrote the National Geo story on the Tongass.
- elcalrissian, on 07/16/2009, -4/+10Please explain the Positive effect Obama has had on the following:
Economy
Women's Rights (FYI using Sotomayor as your example only decreases the legitimacy of her nomination)
Envoirnment - roho76, on 07/17/2009, -1/+7Ah. I'm soaking up the change. Change in people attitudes towards this guy that is. And if your not pissed off yet just give it a minute. See the problem was not distancing yourselves from Bush by choosing this guy but just voting for another "Politician" which is all this guy is. And a pretty dam good one if you ask me. Now that his teleprompter is broken I'm sure we'll see some real change. Maybe you should have checked his voting record before you went all gaga over this tool. In the future why don't you vote for someone with integrity. Now he'll have all this free paper for his free health care service.
Since your all gonna demonize me as a bush supporter I'll stop you right here. I never voted for him, I never supported anything he did, I never liked him and thought he was an ass. - RTFMA, on 07/17/2009, -1/+7Wow, that's a lot better place for logging than, say, CALIFORNIA, which seems to catch on fire every few weeks. California is even closer to.. well, anything really. That would mean less transportation, less energy consumed, and less CO2 emissions. Are there any competent politicians still alive?
- dreamweaver1984, on 07/17/2009, -2/+8Dear Obama
Stop wasting our money
Signed
Americans
p.s. the idea is not to make the national debt grow - miffelplix, on 07/17/2009, -4/+9Today, Obama Admin scrapped a Bush-era decision to rezone 2.6 million acres of Bureau of Land Management forests, which would have tripled current logging production and opened old-growth forests to clear-cutting.
http://www.nytimes.com/cwire/2009/07/17/17climatew ... - inactive, on 07/17/2009, -5/+10Actually, Obama's "halt" on logging in roadless areas is just a temporary moratorium. He also put a moratorium on mountaintop mining, but reversed it weeks later when the EPA approved 42 out of 48 controversial mining projects in Appalachia. Barack doesn't seem to assign any value on the environment beyond what can be extracted out of it financially and politically.
- bepeace, on 07/16/2009, -1/+6@travelina, thanks for the links!
- drinking12many, on 07/17/2009, -0/+5Im a conservative enviromentalist (within reason) and I dont think it should be allowed either. There are many forests in the US with great timber that are not parks go timber those first. Oil industry drilling actually has less of a foot print that the timber industry from what I have seen in my own state. It destroys entire sections of forest even if they do selective cutting.
- Atario, on 07/17/2009, -1/+6Dammit, Obama...don't blow it.
- inactive, on 07/17/2009, -0/+5I can definitely say I don't.
- noahhoward, on 07/17/2009, -1/+6"Alaskan Senators Lisa Murkowski and Mark Begich both supported the administration's decision to allow the timber sale, explaining that it would provide jobs to the area's underemployed loggers."
***** your underemployed loggers! They're under-employed because we don't need the god-damned wood! Either help them find something else or let them go find ACTIVE tree farms to work on. There is no reason to pay for loggers we don't need to cut down trees we don't need to produce lumber WE DON'T ***** NEED! - TheUngod, on 07/17/2009, -0/+4Am I the only one who thought the most interesting part of this was that there are still Native Alaskan tribes? It would be great if they went all Cannibal Holocaust on the loggers.
- Taiyoryu, on 07/17/2009, -0/+4http://www.rso.cornell.edu/snrc/documents/NFPA_Myt ...
http://transcripts.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/03/16/fores ...
I'm a bit torn on the issue. Sustainable logging practices try to maintain long term forest health, thinning out trees (like hunting thins herds) and making sure saplings have adequate room to grow. Unlike clear cutting which just simply cuts everything down. However, the public absorbs the risk while the profits are privatized (seems to be a the running gag lately). The above two references show that the economics don't work out in favor of the public.
Compare logging to ski resorts (which I enjoy) where stands of trees are permanently cleared. Many are built on national forest land. - novenator, on 07/16/2009, -8/+12His track record has been pretty good on environmental issues to date, except for this latest logging fiasco:
Obama moves to let states cap car emissions
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28846202/
Obama wants 35 mpg by 2016
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archive ...
Bush-era oil leases in Utah canceled
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29017638/
Obama shelves Bush species rule
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29490531/
Obama team calls a timeout on logging in roadless areas
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la- ...
EPA Looking to Replace Bush-era Pollution Rules
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a ... - inactive, on 07/17/2009, -2/+6Honestly though, once Obama is in the White House how can true progressives realistically alter his agenda? It's not like most will abandon him come 2012- the alternative would be much worse and he knows it.
- deema1, on 07/17/2009, -2/+6Don't forget the continuation of the Patriot Act. Don't forget renditions. Don't forget signing statments. Don't forget the permanent Iraq troop presence. Don't forget the recommitment to the Afghanistan war and the troop build-up.
- noahhoward, on 07/17/2009, -1/+5In the spirit of one of the commenter there, ban unsolicited mail, and we will no longer need that lumber.
- inactive, on 07/17/2009, -0/+4From the NGM article: "Logging roads etch denuded slopes on Chichagof Island, owned by native corporations that have taken possession of 571,000 Tongass acres under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act of 1971. The majority of those acres have been cut."
So it looks like the same rule holds true in Alaska as in California: Many Indian tribes will wax eloquently about respecting the environment and their ancestors, etc, but will not blink at logging or developing all over any land they can grab hold of. - whirlingderv, on 07/17/2009, -0/+4Dammit dammit dammit. Obama taking another stupid step to make me question/regret my vote. I thought I was voting for the best, then settled for having voted for the lesser of two evils, now it seems it really didn't matter who won, the corporations and lobbies are gonna get what they want no matter who's living in the White House (which, I guess, is how it has always been/will always be). Dammit.
- martoq, on 07/17/2009, -0/+4This is not what I voted for.
- novenator, on 07/16/2009, -3/+7Agreed, the rainforest in that region needs to be protected.
- rrwest, on 07/17/2009, -1/+4Let me see, now. Obama was supposed to be for change, so the US voted him in.
Yesterday his administration approved of the warrantless wiretapping that the Bush administration started, despite the promises he made to stop them or investigate them during his campaign.
While Obama did not strictly disapprove of the October Wall St bailouts, he did not endorse them fully, yet this year he threw several hundred billion tax dollars to the wolves of Wall St like Bush did.
Now he threatens to re-do some of the environmental disasters that Bush did with this logging approval.
How's that for change, folks?
You still have 4 years to impeach him if he continues to replay the Bush W years.
PS Did you notice that the state is Palin's turf of Alaska? Coincidence? Perhaps not. - ejeckert, on 07/17/2009, -2/+5If bush would have done this you guys would all be up in arms over it, but its all of a sudden acceptable when barrack does it? Double Standards...here we go!
But as someone else said it is a renewable source but as someone else also said it cant be depleted faster than it can be renewed...the growth period to make the renewable is far longer then any other source on the planet!
Kinda reminds me of what this guy is doing to the us economy...something about depleting it faster then it can grow back..."change" - askantik, on 07/17/2009, -1/+4Yes, all of the above. But good wood comes from sustainable tree farms, not old-growth temperate rainforests.
- Ddraig, on 07/17/2009, -0/+3duh, know that... but stupid choices like this contribute to his image.
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