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New 9/11 Truth Film Exposes BBC Hit Piece

infowars.net — A new film has taken the BBC's Conspiracy files hit piece on 9/11 truth from earlier this year and ripped it apart point by point exposing it as a tissue of lies, bias and emotional manipulation.

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  • Kombaiyashii, on 10/11/2007, -8/+23I don't think that Guy Smith (the producer of the conspiracy files) knows how much trouble he is in.
    • jesuswon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2sorry dude but what a pussy thing for you to say. what about ALEX JONES ? WHAT DOES he put on the line. DO YOU REALLY KNOW HOW MUCH TROUBLE WERE ALL IN.. BE A HERO DUDE, BE STRONG!!! FIGHT WITH EVERYTHING GOD GAVE YOU!!! THANK YOU BRO> chris.
  • Spentlife, on 10/11/2007, -10/+20The war on Terror is becoming the political issue of our time.
    Nicely done!

    the government need to serve people and not use income tax for military violence around the world. period.
    My money isn't for violence.

    Let's just stay on our continent and make friend with Venezuela and help the Americas grow... hehe but don't do the super highway economical disaster for culture! independance! and Fair Trade!
  • grgkitson, on 10/11/2007, -11/+25Thank god someone made a video to counter that absolutely disgraceful, manipulating original BBC cover up. I don't know how Guy Smith can sleep at night (Or Jane Stanley for that matter)

    We all need to thank MI5 whisle-blower David Shayler for this brilliant documentary, as he's not making any money at all out of this.
    THANKS DAVID, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!
    • Hortnon, on 10/11/2007, -7/+8You know that Alex Jones is, though, right?
      • Hortnon, on 10/11/2007, -7/+8Making money off this, that is. BAH. I'm tired from PT...
  • Look4Truth, on 10/11/2007, -11/+259/11 was so botched that anyone in their right mind can see it was an inside job.
    • Hortnon, on 10/11/2007, -6/+8So botched that the government did it? But then so well covered up that only a couple thousand people on a website can figure out what really happened?

      I don't follow your logic.
  • gerthymcgee, on 10/11/2007, -9/+11more evidence for the diggs willed ignorance crowd.
    David Shayler is a value to the movement
  • critthinker, on 10/11/2007, -11/+15A 12 step program for 9-11 truth denial addiction:

    1. A 767 jet is X inches wide with wings.

    2. The first photo set shows that there is a hole in C Ring wall of the Pentagon is Y inches across.

    3. From the man's height one has a sense of scale, therefore one can easily INFER that Y is DEFINITELY less than X.

    4. From the what we learned in kintergarten by forcing big things thru small holes, we KNOW for a FACT that the portion of the jet wings, engines, and tail over Y inches, would have break off and be found somewhere outside the hole in first photo.

    5. The second photo set shows the outside of the Pentagon, and it DOES NOT SHOW any part of the jet wings/engines/tail outside the E Ring wall.

    6. No portion of the jet wings/engines/tail were found between the E ring outside wall and the C ring wall.

    7. A 767 jet engine weighs over 6000 pounds and contains titanium which has a very high melting point and an even higher boiling point.

    8. We know that a jet fuselage is a hollow tube and its carbon fiber attached nose piece does not provide much penetration to start a fault in the FOUR walls after the FIRST wall, given that the fuselage would have had to remained intact in order to go thru the FIFTH wall in the first photo.

    9. How does one "explain" why the HEAVY jet engines were not recovered but other minor LIGHT debris was recovered?

    10. Do you believe the "magical" official story that the jet engines "phased" thru the C Ring wall and then "boiled" away in the fire?

    11. Why DOESN'T the government release more than 5 blurry still photos of the many recordings that exist, and remove all doubt about what happened?

    12. This is IRREFUTABLE PROOF that a 767 jet did not hit the Pentagon, because NOBODY has YET come up with a way to a way to make 6000 pound INTACT jet engines diasapper between the FIRST outer wall and the FOURTH inner wall while an INTACT hollow tube fuselage makes it thru to the FIFTH wall and beyond!

    BTW: The jet debris found was OBVIOUSLY planted, and it was a hardened steel missle that punched its way thru FIVE WALLS to make that symetrical hole in the first photo. The jet engines are the only debris that can not be planted because of their huge size and weight, so UNLESS somebody can show pictures of the titanium jet engine parts being found, CRITICAL THINKING people KNOW that a missle hit the Pentagon and not a 767 jet, BECAUSE 6000 POUND JET ENGINES DO NOT JUST DISAPPEAR WITHOUT A TRACE!

    http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/punchout.html

    http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/smoke.html


    I DARE the believers to the official lie to response to this post and try to "explain" how 6000 pound jet engines can just "disapper" between the time the "projectile" first hit the E ring and then hit the C ring, but OF COURSE they will resort to childish "name calling", wanting a peer reviewed paper, questioning my qualifications, ANYTHING but answer the question!
  • cp833, on 10/11/2007, -7/+15This is an excellent documentary, and massive props to David Shayler for all his great work.. but my question is where is it going to get aired?? The mainstream media? Hmm I severely doubt it somehow... is it only gonna be available on the net?
  • GlobalistShill, on 10/11/2007, -9/+22America:

    1/3 Morons
    1/3 Apathetic
    1/3 Hey,.. let's have a beer! I mean that seriously,.. we could have a meaningful discussion since your brain's not switched off! The truth behind 9/11 could set this country free, if only people would be honest and forthright about it. Continue to spread the word!

    9/11 was a total inside job. If you haven't come to that conclusion, you either:

    1) Haven't thoroughly researched the topic
    2) Are intellectually dishonest
    3) Are lying
    4) Are madly defending you view of the world at the expense of clarity and rationality, or
    5) Are just stupid. Sorry darling.

    Europeans and others who read Digg,... is it different in your countries (I pray)?
    • cp833, on 10/11/2007, -7/+7Sorry to sound depressing but it's not so different in the UK either... ignorance and apathy are very common among people in general when it comes to this subject. On the extremely rare occasion that this topic may crop up in conversation, if you asked the majority of people 'do you think there is more to 9/11 than we have been told?' they would probably reply 'I don't believe in crazy conspiracy theories'
    • Albionshores, on 10/11/2007, -5/+7>>>>>>Europeans and others who read Digg,... is it different in your countries (I pray)?

      The US Patriot Act and Homeland Security Act are well known about in America. Whenever something comes out, it may take a while, but when it does come out it is easy to see how it effects the constitution. In the UK many of the things haven't received that much attention and are often more difficult to check up on. However....

      The London bombings never had an independent inquiry. In fact it is now ILLEGAL to have an independent inquiry in the UK. Every inquiry must be overseen by a government minister. So if you wanted to have an inquiry into say the home office. The Home Secretary would be allowed to vet the information. Amnesty International has lobbied the UK judiciary to not allow any inquiry under this law. The Inquiries Act 2005.

      Imagine if State lines had been redrawn in the US. Regional Assemblies did just that in the UK ready for entry to the EU. These assemblies are ran by people who are not democratically elected but can instruct and restrict elected officials on spending and policy. The British people did voted regionally on these agencies twice. Londoners said Yes so it now has a mayor. The NorthEast said no so the Government dropped it. But they didn't - they just did it anyway and did not publicise it, did not allow votes on it. Now all the UK is split up into 'New States' Non Democratic bodies such as these now account for carrying out 80% of UK policy. Two thirds of UK law is now made in Brussels.

      The UK has passed compulsory aquisition laws. You can be fined and have your home taken from you by the state even if you own it just..... because.

      Identity Cards are said to be optional. However optional means you can't leave the country - No passport.

      The UK recently removed Serfdom Laws from its law books. Its still illegal to trade in slaves. If you are born to land....you have less rights UNLESS...

      YOU can claim EU human rights which became UK law in 1998. Unlike US unalienable rights in the constitution.....it is written into the EU's declaration of human rights that all rights are alienable. That means they can all be taken back off you.

      The UK has passed an enabling law......the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Act 2006. The UK has been collating DNA and fingerprinting databases. If you are arrested and then released without charge in the UK your DNA stays on the system. The UK is the world's leader in CCTV surveillance.

      In the UK the independent BBC board of governors has been infiltrated by government officials....the government now dictates half of the BBC's governors, against its charter.


      Why are these things even in place?
  • Albionshores, on 10/11/2007, -4/+16American military swear an allegiance to the constitution and the American people. The US needs them more at home than in Iraq or Afghanistan. That's where the real threat is.

    Got to go now. Somebody is at the door.....
    • Herkimer56, on 10/11/2007, -9/+6Of course you would say that. You're an apologist and supporter of Islamic militants.
    • Albionshores, on 10/11/2007, -5/+5That is a lie.
      Anybody can go to my profile and look at my comments.

      There is however an anti-Islamic militant-zionist Digg 'Bury group' at work which can can be seen operating here:

      http://digg.com/offbeat_news/Digg_s_AdmiralAdama_is_Missing

      In this same thread you can see me stating that extremism can never be condoned. Watch then as everybody else ignores the question when I ask it of them. And then, eventually, they ADMIT that they are extremists themselves!!!!! Within the thread they talk about their own blogs which further illustrate their extremism. They are made up of Islamophobes and Militant Zionists....sometimes there is a crossover. With an agenda that can be seen here and here:

      http://digg.com/users/devilzadvocate/news/submitted http://digg.com/users/foopirata/news/submitted

      Typical argument can be observed here:
      http://digg.com/world_news/Bolton_Bush_Doesn_t_See_That_Sanctions_Can_t_Stop_Iran_Now


      For the record I do not follow any one religion, Muslim or otherwise. I just recognise bigotry and an intentional agenda to incite.
      • iDragonFly, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2"There is an anti-Islamic militant-zionist Digg 'Bury group' at work ..."

        There is an 'anti 911 truth' Bury group right here on this thread as well.
        If you check through the submissions that have viable evidence contradicting the official story, you will see what I mean.
        The most obvious of the core group is: 'Herkimer56', 'Horton', and 'The Blueprint.
        • Hortnon, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4Sweet, I got my name mentioned!
        • ViperDaimao, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3Dude, why do they always forget me? I've provided more evidence than anyone that the truthers are wrong.
          • JohnReb, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3And that's exactly why they can never admit you exist, Viper.

            Just like the plane debris at the Pentagon
          • iDragonFly, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2I've not included you only because you are traditionally matter-of-fact in your approach, nor because you disagree with those involved in seeking the truth.
            If you've attacked others and I missed it, or you've buried material simply because you disagree with it, then I apologize for excluding you from the bury group.

            I'll go to bat for anyone's right to free speech, but I cannot tolerate those who try to stifle the right of others to speak up for what they believe in as well.
          • iDragonFly, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Ok, my syntax was all messed in my above comment due to my browser crashing before I could correct it.

            In general, what I was trying to say is that I don't have a problem with someone disagreeing with my point of view, but I do take issue with those who think they have a right to decide what the rest of us should be allowed to share, learn, and discuss.

            You seem to be more into sharing your point of view through links and such, and less inclined to name-calling and personal attacks.
            And that is why I have purposely left your name off this list of cyber-bullies.
    • Herkimer56, on 10/11/2007, -7/+5It's not a lie and you know it. You have consistently made excuses for Islamic radicals and consistently blamed Israel for everything bad that's happened in the Mideast.
    • Albionshores, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4Let me say it again now. There can be no excuse for any extremism whatsoever....regardless of who is doing it, regardless of who it is done to.

      I believe in non-violence and libertarian values.

      I do not blame Israel. Here I am defending human unalienable rights against the same Bury group.

      http://digg.com/politics/The_Truth_about_Guantanamo

      Here I am arguing alongside Jewish Israelis against militant zionist propaganda

      http://digg.com/politics/JEW_FIGHT_FAIR

      Here is a post from today praising Jewish Israeli Humanitarian Groups.

      " Nobody is behaving anti-semitically. Nobody is denouncing Judaism. Israel has carried out numerous human rights attrocities. Human rights groups in Israel say so themselves. "'Without a steady supply of fuel and parts, hospitals cannot perform life-saving surgery, and treatment plants cannot pump and treat sewage in Gaza,' the groups wrote. The petition was lodged by The Association for Civil Rights in Israel; Physicians for Human Rights-Israel; Hamoked: Center for Defense of the Individual; B'tselem; The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel; and Gisha - Center for the Legal Protection of Freedom of Movement. "

      Nobody is trying to send Jewish people to a gas chamber. In fact these Jewish people seriously ROCK!

      http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_453.shtml http://www.gisha.org/english/index_eng.htm http://www.btselem.org/english/Gaza_Strip/Karni_Crossing.asp http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_861.shtml http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1150885973674 http://www.acri.org.il/english-acri/engine/list.asp?topic=20 http://www.wzo.org.il/en/resources/view.asp?id=1991 Which can be seen in CONTEXT HERE http://digg.com/politics/US_lawmakers_block_funds_for_UN_human_rights_body You clearly have an Anti "9-11 movement" agenda as others have already pointed out. Why are you trying to condemn me with FALSE ASSOCIATION? If you believe what you say then give examples...links to posts where I have condoned extremism. I have not, I do not. You however do have an agenda which can be seen here. Why so vehemently argue against something which is essentially no big thing if nothing is suspect. AN INDEPENDENT PUBLIC INQUIRY INTO 9-11. (INCIDENTALLY RON PAUL HAS COME OUT IN SUPPORT OF THIS)
    • Herkimer56, on 10/11/2007, -6/+5If there's no excuse for extremism and violence then stop supporting extremists who do violence. It's really just that simple. If you lay down with dogs you're going to get fleas.
    • Albionshores, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4I don't support any extremists. I denounce all forms of extremism, terrorism, oppression. How can it be said any more clearly?

      Which extremists are you accusing me of supporting, so I can specifically denounce their actions?

      This is simply your anti 9-11 agenda applying guilt for false association. Fox would be proud....they do the same thing with Barak Obama. But clearly you feel a need to do so...

      Why are you so opposed to the concept that 9-11 may have been carried out by US officials? If it is true surely it is better that we know. Why not just have a full public, independent inquiry because we've not had one yet.....
      • ViperDaimao, on 10/11/2007, -4/+6Here's an independent study (we've already had public inquiries)
        http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:nrNTY5JkHBwJ:www.civil.northwestern.edu/people/bazant/PDFs/Papers/00%2520WTC%2520Collapse%2520-%2520What%2520Did%2520%26%2520Did%2520Not%2520Cause%2520It%2520-%25205-2007.pdf

        Collapse of World Trade Center Towers: What Did and Did Not Cause It?
        Zdenek P. Bazant, Hon.M. ASCE, Jia-Liang Le, Frank R. Greening, and David B. Benson

        Abstract: Previous analysis of progressive collapse showed that gravity alone suffices to explain the overall collapse of the World Trade Center towers. However, it has not been checked whether the allegations of controlled demolition by planted explosives have any scientific merit. The present analysis proves that they do not.
        • Hortnon, on 10/11/2007, -5/+6Look, it's real research...and what're these equation-looking things?!

          Blasphemy!
        • SpaceMonkeyZero, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6They already claimed that the study was influenced by Dick Cheney because the school gets government funds (what school DOESN'T?)
      • Albionshores, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4WHAT WAS THAT!!! Seriously LMAO. Lets get to the public independent inquiry bit. From the 'article'.

        "Acknowledgment. Partial financial support for the energetic theory of progressive collapsewas obtained from the U.S. Department of Transportation through grant 0740-357-A210 of theInfrastructure Technology Institute of Northwestern University. Prof. Richard M. Lueptow ofNorthwestern University is thanked for useful comments"

        SO ITS NOT INDEPENDENT!!!!!


        Lets face it this was your homework project wasn't it. It starts of with lacking perspective and dripped in somebody else's assumption and then gets worse from there. And this is the Independent Public Inquiry that we have been calling out for....ignoring the fact that it was neither Public or Independent or carried out by people with recognised qualifications (beyond say highschool).

        Sorry I shall adjust my request.....

        WE NEED AN INDEPENDENT PUBLIC INQUIRY INTO 9-11, UNCENSORED & CARRIED OUT BY PROFESSIONALS......PREFERRABLY ADULTS.


        • ViperDaimao, on 10/11/2007, -4/+4See? Given exactly what you've been asking for, and you refuse to accept it. Sorry, math doesn't lie, nor does it have a bias. It's physically impossible for the towers to have fallen the way they did with controlled demolition. These are professional engineers with experience beyond anyone in the truther movement. The fact that you'd believe a religious professor like David Ray Griffin has more expertise than actually physicists and engineers it baffling. You are being dishonest to me, to the world, and to yourself.
        • Albionshores, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4It's a homework project. It wasn't independent - it was funded by a government agency...well you got a loan...how much was it for $250, $500? LOL!

          And it certainly wasn't public. Professional? It was as halfbaked and amateur as a Highschool Drama Club.

          You've gone from being inaccurate, to obscure, to 'Twin-Peak' surreal. Weird.
          • Hortnon, on 10/11/2007, -4/+4"Professional? It was as halfbaked and amateur as a Highschool Drama Club."
            Ironic, coming from a guy that apparently takes Loose Change as gospel...
          • ViperDaimao, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4Where do you get homework project? This was a study by several professional engineers with years of experience. It's being published in an upcoming issue of the ASCE journal. Is this all you can do when shown mathematical proof you're wrong? Hurl childish insults?
          • Herkimer56, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3Acting like a spoiled infant is pretty much all he has left at this point. Truthers have never even tried to deal with the mathematical evidence so they just ignore it or dismiss it immediately.
          • ViperDaimao, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2This guy look like he's doing a homework project?
            http://www.civil.northwestern.edu/people/bazant.html
            Zdenek P. Bazant
            McCormick School Professor and Walter P. Murphy Professor
            Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering

            Education

            * C.E., Czech Technical University, Prague, Civil Engineering (Structural Engineering) 1960
            * Ph.D. (in mechanics)., Czechoslovak Academy of Sciences, Prague 1963
            * Postgraduate diploma in Physics, Charles University, Prague 1966
            * Docent habil., Czech Technical University, Prague 1967
            * S.E. 1970, Illinois Registered Structural Engineer


            http://www.911myths.com/html/dr_frank_greening_bio.html
            I have a Ph. D. in chemistry , but my official title for over 20 years was Senior Research Scientist at what used to be called Ontario Hydro and is now Ontario Power Generation. I was in charge of radioanalytical chemistry research and discovered all sorts of problems with OPG's CANDU reactors... [Google Frank Greenings name and you’ll find him described as a “nuclear whistle-blower”]. I have published scientific articles in the Journal of Molecular Spectroscopy, Canadian Journal of Physics, Chemical Physics Letters, Journal of Nuclear Materials, etc. I even worked with the great Nobel prize winning spectroscopist, Gerhard Herzberg, for 2 years back in the 1970s.

            Email: greening@sympatico.ca
          • Albionshores, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3>>>>"Ironic, coming from a guy that apparently takes Loose Change as gospel"

            I have never referenced Loose Change. For all you know I have never seen it.

            >>>>>>That article was clearly written as somebody's disertation. It led of using the commission as a source of reference and finished with recognition that it had received a government agency grant...so it could hardly be called independent. Nor public.


            It is not for a 'truther' to provide an explanation. It is enough to show error in the commission's report to demand another investigation. The report described the twin towers as being "hollow structures". Blueprints of the WTC towers show that the main load baring structures were located at the building's core.

            That's it. The offiicial explanation fails peer review. A new one is called for. One that uses the correct model and structure.....preferrably one that addresses the funding of the attack and one that addresses WTC7.


            This is not an unreasonable request. What is your agenda?
          • ViperDaimao, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3"It led of using the commission as a source of reference and finished with recognition that it had received a government agency grant...so it could hardly be called independent."

            Then there is nothing that could be independent by your standards. I mean, I've provided lists of engineers and architects and experts who blow you out of the water, but all you can do is insult and plug your fingers in your ears, no, they cited the NIST report, no they got a grant from the dept of transportation, no they're from a university who gets govt funding. Nothing to counter any of their claims, expertise and claims. Do you see how lost and ignorant you are? How arrogant to think that you know more about this than professors with decades of experience? Seriously, go look at that long list I provided of experts and investigators. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/listofresponders%26investigators Go do some searching yourself if you want answers. Not sure what the big deal with WTC7 is. It fell in two parts, un-uniformly, took well over 12 seconds to fall. There's no benefit to taking it down, it makes no sense. Go educate yourself http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/groundzero%3Atheotherbuildings%2Cmiscellaneo
  • Vinadetta, on 10/11/2007, -7/+16Another outstanding piece which tears even more holes into the official story and anyone that attempts to spew that propaganda!!!! It seems the government wants us to believe that massive steel buildings are actually made out of balsa wood, and giant airplanes are made out cardboard!!!!
    9-11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!!!!
    9-11 WAN AN INSIDE JOB!!!!!
  • Herkimer56, on 10/11/2007, -18/+9"The documentary attempted to dismiss serious questions about 9/11 firstly by implying that anyone who distrusts the official version has a borderline psychological illness and is a member of a mythological cult."

    I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment of the truther movement. The psychological illness would be the inability to tell the difference between right and wrong or truth and fiction, an inability to generate original thought and a willingness to be led by people who are obviously manipulating you for their own political and financial ends. In that respect you people truly remind me of the German people during Hitler's rise to power. And there can be no doubt that the truther movement is well down the road to becoming a true cult. You people are willing to swallow the party line no matter how fantastic or unbelievable it is because the word comes down from your leaders whom you hold to be incapable of making mistakes. You've all become "true believers" in a cause that is not based on fact, science or reality and some of you are now clearly beyond help. It's likely just a matter of time before some of you start committing acts of violence in the name of "seeking the truth" or decide to stage a mass suicide to make a political point. Those of you on the edges of this movement need to seek help now to get out before you are dragged further in to this madness. Those of you that are already at the center, well, I'm sorry but I really don't think you can be helped. Your only hope is that your families will have you institutionalized before you can harm yourselves or anyone else.
    • SpaceMonkeyZero, on 10/11/2007, -4/+6The people who came up with the theory that it was an inside job are not borderline psychologically. They are all out paranoid schizophrenics that think shadowy government agencies are out to get people. They are just like cult leaders, they have an odd charisma about them that attracts followers.

      The ones who blindly follow are losers and loners who need something to make them feel special. They're just like cultists. Hey at least in those bagwhan rajneesh communes you losers would be getting laid. Instead you're shacked up in your mom's basements thinking the jewsmossadhaliburtondickcheney are out to rule the world.

      In a word: Pathetic.
  • Vinadetta, on 10/11/2007, -5/+13Herk,
    You spend all your time trying to put down the Truth Movement, but it grows by the day!!!!!! It's logic that massive steel building don't come down perfectly symmetrical at all four corners at free fall speeds due to fire that are unevenly spread in the building!!!! Being in denial is way worse that seeking answers and truth
    • Herkimer56, on 10/11/2007, -10/+8Grows by the day? Hardly. You claim that you know the truth but you state an obvious and easily disprovable lie in your post. The buildings did not fall at "free fall" speeds. Go look at any video of the towers falling and you'll clearly see smaller pieces of debris falling much faster than the buildings themselves. If you don't believe me then go look for yourself but do try to keep your eyes open this time. Now tell me, just who is the one in denial here?
      • Albionshores, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7Must be gaining some speed because more and more people are aware of it. Ron Paul has even said he would order a public independent inquiry. People are spending a lot of money putting models and animations together (which don't even follow the structures of the WTC tower).

        There's a lot of noise......seems to me like its gaining speed. Michael Moore called for an inquiry just over a week ago. New documentaries are coming out.

        Still no explanation for molten metal found in the foundations 6 weeks laster or why WTC7 collapsed.

        And then it comes out that testimonies given for the commission contradicted. Then there was the censorship and the ommissions.



        And then further up the page you say that I was a miltant muslim. Neither of which is true; neither muslim or militant and yet you feel a need to use false association to silence people calling for a fresh inquiry.


        It all smacks of a SNOWBALL EFFECT and you and yours are starting to PANIC!!!!!

        A PUBLIC INDEPENDENT 9-11 INQUIRY IS NEEDED.
        • Hortnon, on 10/11/2007, -6/+7Ron Paul needs all the support he can get.
          Michael Moore is a media whore.

          The only 'censorship' I know of is the Secretary that was off on his timeline by 1.5+ hours (the real timeline was established by many other people's testimony).
        • Albionshores, on 10/11/2007, -5/+7Still all extra publicity, media whore or not -he's a celebrity.

          Everything that went into the 9-11 commission report was vetted. Firefighter's testimonies, engineer's reports, official sources...all restricted. Look at the ommissions!!!
        • Herkimer56, on 10/11/2007, -6/+5In case you hadn't noticed, Ron Paul is an idiot. That's why he has zero chance of ever being elected to the Presidency and stands a really good chance of losing his seat in Congress.
    • Hortnon, on 10/11/2007, -5/+8Explain why that's not logical.
      • Albionshores, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3Because of un-uniform resistance and that they are not built symmetrical. Because fire does not behave uniformly, remote joints do not fail simultaneously.

        WTC7 wasn't even hit by a plane.
        • ViperDaimao, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5of course not, it was hit by engine parts and 2 falling buildings. It didn't fall uniformly, and took over 12 seconds to fall from the initial collapse. It was burning for over 6 ours, with jet fuel and diesel generators adding fuel to that fire. It has chunks of the building missing. Everyone knew it was going to fall, which is why they pulled the firefighting unit out and told Guiliani that it was about to fall.
  • theblueprint, on 10/11/2007, -13/+8So in the wake of the compelling Purdue simulation, the best "truthers" have?

    All this video does is list the "truther" talking points, insist that they're right, and condemn the BBC for not taking scientifically-unfounded, paranoid ***** into account when making their presentation? Science (real, actual scientists, universities, and researchers) is on the side of the official story.

    This "film" is nothing more than "truthers" telling each other how awesome they are.

  • Slydevil01, on 10/11/2007, -8/+6Wow, there's evidence that officials may not of told the precise truth! We'll just assume everything was orchestrated by them! I mean, cover-ups to conceal their own incompetence, or any other logical explanation, now that's absurd!
    • Albionshores, on 10/11/2007, -6/+5No lets just have a full independent and public inquiry.
      • Herkimer56, on 10/11/2007, -5/+6Been there, done that. Don't you remember?
  • gazwilwah, on 10/11/2007, -5/+8I stopped paying the tv license fee as soon as the documentary went on air, I wish everyone else would do the same because WE are paying them to make this crap.
    The BBC like FOX and SKY etc.. are all brainwashing tools for the fascist Illuminati and i will go to prison rather than give them one penny.
  • JezSmitty, on 10/11/2007, -6/+12Anyone who approaches 9/11 research with an open mind will undoubtedly be convinced that there is something seriously wrong with the official account. The media (the BBC in this case) have a lot to answer for, because they're pretty much solely responsible for numbing the population's senses to the point where they can barely think. And to those who claim that the 9/11 Truth Movement is a "cult", have you ever heard any of the fascist neo-con barkers talking about the truth movement? They treat it as blasphemous, and they have an almost zealot-like response to anyone who raises questions about the official story. The only cult in my eyes is the one you're so blindly a part of. If the research could be discredited in a civil and scientifically sound way this sort of behaviour wouldn't occur, nor would retarded hit pieces like Guy Smith's travesty of a film be necessary.

    WTC7 collapsed at freefall speed. Impossible without explosives. You can dance around the issue all day long, but you will never be able to explain away this phenomenon with wild conspiracy theories about amateurish Arab hijackers or fire. Fire doesn't do this to buildings. In fact, the ONLY way this has ever happened in the past is when carefully synchronised explosives were planted in the building. Controlled demolition explains everything, the government's silly, unsustainable gibberish doesn't.
    • Herkimer56, on 10/11/2007, -6/+8"Anyone who approaches 9/11 research with an open mind will undoubtedly be convinced that there is something seriously wrong with the official account."

      That, of course, should read, "Anyone who approaches 9/11 research with an empty mind will undoubtedly be convinced that there is something seriously wrong with the official account."
    • Hortnon, on 10/11/2007, -4/+8http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7___silverstein.html
  • gazwilwah, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1519 guys with nothing more than small blades took 4 passenger planes? don't make me laugh.
    • Hortnon, on 10/11/2007, -6/+6Yes, they did.

      And I won't, I promise.
      • Albionshores, on 10/11/2007, -4/+1Prove it. Who were these hijackers again?
        Is Mahammed Atta, who was funded by, CIA funded, ISI still considered the head honcho?
        • Hortnon, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4How does his CIA funding prove the gov't fired cruise missile at the Pentagon and flew military planes into WTC1 & 2?
        • SpaceMonkeyZero, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4So Albion: Where are the people who were on the commercial airlines? Hiding in a government bunker somewhere? Maybe you think they've all been trained to disguise themselves as Palestinians and Iraqis in order to blow things up and blame the "innocent" muslims?

          Come on... let's get creative here!
    • SpaceMonkeyZero, on 10/11/2007, -4/+4Let's see you be a man on 9/11, without knowing what was going to happen to your plane and fight back. Until then hijackers always ended up landing the plane and making demands. They hadn't DONE anything like 9/11 before. So of course people would sit back and try not to antagonize them.

      Flight 93 HEARD about what had gone down and attempted to fight back rather than just sit there. If you were on the plane, I bet you'd be the whiner in the back saying "DON'T ANGER THEM, THEY MIGHT HURRRRRT US"
  • ViperDaimao, on 10/11/2007, -15/+8Partial List of Agencies, Organizations, and Experts Responding to and Investigating the 9/11 Attacks

    ...Or as the conspiracists would say, the "Liars, dupes, and shills" list.

    1,200 people who worked the flight 93 crash scene
    40,000 people who worked the piles at Ground Zero
    55 FBI Evidence Response Teams at Fresh Kills in New York
    7,000+ FBI Agents
    8,000+ people who worked the scene at the Pentagon
    ACE Bermuda Insurance
    AEMC Construction
    AIG Insurance
    Air Traffic Control System Command Center in Washington
    Alexandria VA Fire & Rescue
    Allianz Global Risks
    American Airlines
    American Concrete Institute
    American Institute of Steel Construction
    American Red Cross
    Applied Biosystems Inc.
    Applied Research Associates
    Arlington County Emergency Medical Services
    Arlington County Fire Department
    Arlington County Sheriff's Department
    Arlington VA Police Department
    Armed Forces Institute of Pathology
    Armed Forces Institute of Technology Federal Advisory Committee
    ARUP USA
    Atlantic Heydt Inc.
    Bechtel
    Berlin Fire Department
    Big Apple Wrecking
    Blanford & Co.
    Bode Technology Group
    Bovis Inc.
    Building and Construction Trades Council
    Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms
    C-130H crew in D.C. & Shanksville
    Cal Berkeley Engineering Dept.
    California Incident Management Team
    Carter Burgess Engineering
    Celera Genomics
    Centers for Disease Control
    Central City Fire Department
    Central Intelligence Agency
    Cleveland Airport control tower
    Columbia University Department of Civil Engineering and Engineering Mechanics
    Congressional Joint Intelligence Committee
    Consolidated Edison Company
    Construction Technologies Laboratory
    Controlled Demolitions Inc.
    Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat
    Counterterrorism and Security Group
    CTL Engineering
    D.H. Griffin Wrecking Co. Inc.
    DeSimone Consulting Engineers
    Dewhurst MacFarlane &Partners
    DiSalvo Ericson Engineering
    District of Columbia Fire & Rescue
    DOD Honor Guard, Pentagon
    D'Onofrio Construction
    E-4B National Airborne Operations Center crews
    Edwards and Kelcey Engineering
    Engineering Systems, Inc.
    Environmental protection Agency
    Exponent Failure Analysis Associates
    EYP Mission CriticalFacilities
    Fairfax County Fire & Rescue
    Falcon 20 crew in PA
    Family members who received calls from victims on the planes
    FBI Evidence Recovery Teams
    Federal Aviation Administration
    Federal Bureau of Investigation
    Federal Emergency Management Agency
    Federal Insurance Co.
    FEMA 68-Person Urban Search and Rescue Teams: Arizona Task Force 1, California Task Force 1, California Task Force 3, California Task Force 7, Colorado Task Force 1, Fairfax Task Force 1, Florida Task Force 1, Florida Task Force 2, Maryland Task Force 1, Massachusetts Task Force 1, Metro Dade/Miami, Nebraska Task Force 1, New Mexico Task Force 1, New York Task Force 1, Pennsylvania Task Force 1, Tennessee Task Force 1, Texas Task Force 1, Utah Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 2, Washington Task Force 1
    FEMA Disaster Field Office
    FEMA Emergency Response Team
    FEMA Urban Search and Rescue Incident Support Team-Advanced 3
    Fire Department of New York
    Fort Myer Fire Department
    French Urban Search & Rescue Task Force
    Friedens Volunteer Fire Department
    Gateway Demolition
    Gene Code Forensics
    Georgia Tech Engineering Dept.
    Gilsanz Murray Steficek LLP
    GMAC Financing
    Goldstein Associates Consulting Engineers
    Guy Nordenson Associates
    HAKS Engineers
    Hampton-Clarke Inc.
    HHS National Medical Response Team
    HLW International Engineering
    Hooversville Rescue Squad.
    Hooversville Volunteer Fire Department
    Hoy Structural Services
    Hughes Associates, Inc
    Hugo Neu Schnitzer East
    hundreds of ironworkers, some of whom built the WTC
    Hundreds of New York City Police Department Detectives
    Industrial Risk Insurers
    Institute for Civil Infrastructure Systems
    International Association of Fire Chiefs
    International Union of Operating Engineers Locals 14 & 15
    J.R. Harris & Company
    Karl Koch Steel Consulting Inc.
    KCE Structural Engineers
    Koch Skanska
    Koutsoubis, Alonso Associates
    Laboratory Corp. of America
    Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory
    Leslie E. Robertson Associates
    LIRo Engineering
    Listie Volunteer Fire Company
    Lockwood Consulting
    M.G. McLaren Engineering
    Masonry Society
    Mazzocchi Wrecking Inc.
    Metal Management Northeast
    Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit
    Miami-Dade Urban Search & Rescue
    Military District of Washington Search & Rescue Team
    Montgomery County Fire & Rescue
    Mueser Rutledge Consulting Engineers
    Murray Engineering
    Myriad Genetic Laboratories Inc.
    National Center for Biotechnology Informatics
    National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
    National Council of Structural Engineers Associations
    National Disaster Medical System
    National Emergency Numbering Association
    National Fire Protection Association
    National Guard in D.C., New York, and Pennsylvania
    National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
    National Institutes of Health Human Genome Research Institute
    National Law Enforcement and Security Institute
    National Military Command Center
    National Reconnaissance Office
    National Response Center
    National Science Foundation Division of Civil and Mechanical Systems
    National Security Agency
    National Transportation Safety Board
    National Wrecking
    Natural Hazards Research and Applications Information Center
    New Jersey State Police
    New York City Department of Buildings WTC Task Force
    New York City Department of Design and Construction
    New York City Department of Environmental Protection
    New York City Office of Emergency Management
    New York City Office of the Chief Medical Examiner
    New York City Police Department Aviation Unit
    New York City Police Department Emergency Services Unit
    New York Daily News
    New York Flight Control Center
    New York Newsday
    New York Port Authority Construction Board
    New York Port Authority Police
    New York State Emergency Management Office
    New York State Police Forensic Services
    New York Times
    North American Aerospace Defense Command
    Northeast Air Defense Sector Commanders and crew
    Numerous bomb-sniffing dogs
    Numerous Forensic Anthropologists
    Numerous Forensic Dentists
    Numerous Forensic Pathologists
    Numerous Forensic Radiologists
    NuStats
    Occupational Safety and Health Administration
    Office of Emergency Preparedness
    Office of Strategic Services
    Orchid Cellmark
    Parsons Brinckerhoff Engineering
    Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection
    Pennsylvania Department of Health and Human Services
    Pennsylvania Region 13 Metropolitan Medical Response Group
    Pennsylvania State Funeral Directors Association
    Pennsylvania State Police
    Pentagon Defense Protective Service
    Pentagon Helicopter Crash Response Team
    Pentagon Medical Staff
    Pentagon Renovation Team
    Phillips & Jordan, Inc.
    Port of New York and New Jersey Authority
    Pro-Safety Services
    Protec
    Public Entity Risk Institute
    Purdue University Engineering Dept.
    Robert Silman Associates Structural Engineers
    Rolf Jensen & Associates, Inc
    Rosenwasser/Grossman Consulting Engineers
    Royal SunAlliance/Royal Indemnity
    SACE Prime Power Assessment Teams
    SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams
    Salvation Army Disaster Services
    several EPA Hazmat Teams
    several FBI Hazmat Teams
    several Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams
    several Federal Disaster Mortuary (DMORT) Teams
    Severud Associates Consulting Engineers
    Shanksville Volunteer Fire Company
    Silverstein Properties
    Simpson Gumpertz & Heger Engineers
    Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP
    Skilling Ward Magnusson Barkshire
    Society of Fire Protection Engineers
    Somerset Ambulance Association
    Somerset County Coroner's Office
    Somerset County Emergency Management Agency
    Somerset Volunteer Fire Department
    St. Paul/Travelers Insurance
    State of Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency
    Stoystown Volunteer Fire Company
    Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE)
    Structural Engineers Association of New York
    Superstructures Engineering
    Swiss Re America Insurance
    Telephone operators who took calls from passengers in the hijacked planes
    Teng & Associates
    Thornton-Tomasetti Group, Inc.
    TIG Insurance
    Tokio Marine & Fire
    Transportation Safety Administration
    Tully Construction
    Twin City Fire Insurance
    Tylk Gustafson Reckers Wilson Andrews Engineering
    U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
    Underwriters Laboratories
    Union Wrecking
    United Airlines
    United States Air National Guard
    United States Fire Administration
    United States Secret Service
    United Steelworkers of America
    University of Sheffield Fire Engineering Research
    US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach Fairfax County and Montgomery County
    US Army’s Communications-Electronics Command
    US Department of Defense
    US Department of Justice
    US Department of State
    Virginia Beach Fire Department
    Virginia Department of Emergency Management
    Virginia State Police
    Vollmer Associates Engineers
    Washington Post
    Weeks Marine
    Weidlinger Associates
    Weiskopf & Pickworth Engineering
    Westmoreland County Emergency Management Agency
    Whitney Contracting
    Willis Group Holdings
    WJE Structural Engineers
    Worcester Polytechnic Institute
    World Trade Center security staff
    XL Insurance
    Yonkers Contracting
    York International
    Zurich Financial
    Zurich Re Risk Engineering

    Conspiracists: are these people liars, dupes, or shills?

    Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, Ph.D., P.E.
    Alan Rosa, P.E., S.E.
    Allyn Kilsheimer, P.E.
    Amit Bandyopadhyay, S.E.
    Amy Zelson Mundorff
    Anamaria Bonilla, S.E.
    Andrew McConnell, S.E.
    Andrew Mueller-Lust, S.E.
    Andrew Pontecorvo, P.E.
    Anthony Kirk US&R Structural Specialist
    Anthony W. Chuliver, S.E.
    Antoine E. Naaman, Ph.D.
    Antranig M. Ouzoonian, P.E.
    Arlan Dobson, FEMA Region 2 DAS
    August Domel, Ph.D., S.E., P.E.
    Bernie Denke US&R Structural Specialist
    Bill Cote
    Bill Coulbourne, P.E., S.E.
    Bob Gray (I.U.O.E.)
    Bonnie Manley, P.E., S.E.
    Boris Hayda, P.E., S.E.
    Brian Lyons, Tully
    Brian McElhatten, S.E.
    Brian Smith (Col.), Chief Deputy Medical Examiner, Dover AFB
    Charles Hirsch, M.D.
    Charles J. Carter, AISC
    Charles Thornton, P.E.
    Charlie Vitchers
    Christopher E. Marrion, P.E.
    Christopher M. Hewitt, AISC
    Chuck Guardia, S.E.
    D. Stanton Korista, P.E., S.E.
    Dan Doyle (IW 40)
    Dan Eschenasy, P.E., S.E.
    Dan Koch Jr.
    Daniel A. Cuoco, P.E
    Daniele Veneziano, P.E.
    David Davidowitz, ConEd
    David Hoy, S.E.
    David Leach, USACE
    David M. Parks, ME
    David Peraza, P.E., S.E.
    David Ranlet
    David Schomburg
    David Sharp, S.E.
    David T. Biggs, P.E.
    Dean Koutsoubis, S.E.
    Dean Tills, P.E.
    Delbert Boring, P.E.
    Dennis Clark (IST)
    Dennis Dirkmaat, Ph.D.
    Dennis Mileti, Ph.D.
    Dennis Smith
    Dick Posthauer, S.E.
    Donald Friedman, P.E.
    Donald O. Dusenberry, P.E.
    Ed McGinley, P.E.
    Ed Plaugher, Chief, Arlington FD
    Edward A. Flynn, Arlington Police Chief
    Edward Depaola, S.E.
    Edward M. DePaola, P.E.
    Edward Stinnette, Chief, FCFD
    Fahim Sadek, P.E., S.E.
    Farid Alfawakhiri Ph.D.
    FDNY Battalion Chief Frank Vallebuono
    FDNY Captain Anthony Varriale
    FDNY Chief Frank Cruthers
    FDNY Chief Frank Fellini
    FDNY Chief Joseph Callan
    FDNY Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro
    FDNY Deputy Chief Nick Visconti
    FDNY Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
    FDNY Firefighter Sam Melisi
    Francis J. Lombardi, P.E.
    Frank Gayle, Sc.D
    Gary Keith, V.P. NFPA
    Gary Steficek, S.E.
    Gary Suson
    Gary Tokle, Asst. VP, NFPA
    George Tamaro, P.E., S.E.
    Gerald Haynes, P.E.
    Gerald Wellman US&R Structural Specialist
    Guy Colonna, P.E., NFPA
    Guylene Proulx, Ph.D.
    H.S. Lew, P.E., S.E.
    Hal Bidlack, Col. USAF (ret.)
    Harold E. Nelson, P.E., FSFP.E.
    Harry Martin, AISC
    J. David Frost, Ph.D., P.E.
    Jack Brown Deputy Chief Loudoun County (Va.) Fire Rescue Department
    Jack Messagno, WTC project Manager (Tully)
    James A. Rossberg, P.E.
    James Chastain US&R Structural Specialist
    James H. Fahey, S.E.
    James Lord, FSFP.E.
    James Milke, Ph.D., P.E.
    Jan Szumanski, IUOE
    Jason Averill, FSFP.E.
    Jeffrey Hartman, S.E.
    Jim Abadie, Bovis
    Joel Meyerowitz
    John Gross, Ph.D., P.E.
    John Hodgens, FDNY (ret.)
    John J. Zils, P.E., S.E.
    John L. Gross, Ph.D., P.E.
    John Lekstutis, P.E.
    John M. Hanson, Ph.D, P.E.
    John McArdle NYPD/ESU (DTC)
    John Moran, NYPD/ESU (NTC)
    John O'Connell
    John Odermatt (NYC OEM)
    John Ruddy, P.E., S.E.
    John W. Fisher, P.E.
    Jon Magnusson, P.E., S.E.
    John Ryan, PAPD
    Jonathan Barnett, Ph.D
    Joo-Eun Lee P.E., S.E.
    Joseph C. Gehlen, P.E., S.E.
    Jozef Van Dyck, P.E.
    Juan Paulo Morla, S.E.
    Karl Koch III
    Karl Koch IV
    Kaspar Willam, P.E., S.E.
    Kenneth Holden
    Kent Watts
    Kevin Brennan, OSHA
    Kevin Malley, FDNY (ret.)
    Kevin Terry, S.E.
    Kurt Gustafson, P.E., S.E.
    Larry Keating (IW 40)
    Lawrence C. Bank, Ph.D., P.E.
    Lawrence Griffis, P.E.
    Leo J. Titus, P.E.
    Leonard M. Joseph, P.E.
    Leslie E. Robertson, P.E., S.E.
    Long T. Phan, Ph.D., P.E.
    Lou Mendes, P.E., S.E.
    Louis Errichiello, S.E.
    Manny Velivasakis, P.E.
    Mark Blair
    Mark Kucera, USACE
    Mark Tamaro, P.E
    Mark Volpe, IW 40
    Marty Corcoran
    Matthew G. Yerkey, P.E., S.E.
    Merle E. Brander, P.E.
    Mete A. Sozen, Ph.D., S.E.
    Michael Burton, P.E.
    Michael Dallal
    Michael Hessheimer, S.E.
    Michael Tylk, P.E., S.E.
    Mike Banker, FDNY Capt. (SOC)
    Mike Marscio, P.E.
    Miroslav Sulc,, P.E., S.E.
    Mohammed Ettouney
    Morgan Hurley, FSFP.E.
    Nestor Iwankiw, Ph.D., P.E.
    Nick Carcich
    Norman Groner, Ph.D.
    Pablo Lopez, P.E., S.E.
    Paul A. Bosela, Ph.D., P.E.
    Paul F. Mlakar, Ph.D., P.E.
    Paul Sledzik
    Paul Tertell, P.E.
    Pete Bakersky
    Peter Chipchase, S.E.
    Peter Rinaldi, P.E.
    Pia Hoffman
    Rajani Nair, S.E.
    Ramon Gilsanz, P.E., S.E
    Randy Lawson
    Raul Maestre, P.E., S.E.
    Raymond F. Messer, P.E.
    Reidar Bjorhovde, Ph.D., P.E
    Richard Bukowski P.E., FSFP.E.
    Richard G. Gewain, P.E., S.E.
    Richard Gann, Ph.D.
    Richard Garlock, P.E.,
  • critthinker, on 10/11/2007, -7/+12A 12 step program for 9-11 truth denial addiction:

    Hole in C Ring: http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/punchout.html

    Outside Pantagon: http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/smoke.html

    A Complete Jet Engine: http://www.freefoto.com/preview/20-01-51?ffid=20-01-51&k=Jet+Engine

    A Planted Part of a Jet Engine: http://www.911myths.com/html/pentagon_4.html


    1. A 767 jet is X inches wide with wings.

    2. The first photo set shows that there is a hole in C Ring wall of the Pentagon is Y inches across.

    3. From the man's height one has a sense of scale, therefore one can easily INFER that Y is DEFINITELY less than X.

    4. From the what we learned in kintergarten by forcing big things thru small holes, we KNOW for a FACT that the portion of the jet wings, engines, and tail over Y inches, would have break off and be found somewhere outside the hole in first photo.

    5. The second photo set shows the outside of the Pentagon, and it DOES NOT SHOW any part of the jet wings/engines/tail outside the E Ring wall.

    6. No portion of the jet wings/engines/tail were found between the E ring outside wall and the C ring wall.

    7. A 767 jet engine weighs over 6000 pounds and contains titanium which has a very high melting point and an even higher boiling point.

    8. We know that a jet fuselage is a hollow tube and its carbon fiber attached nose piece does not provide much penetration to start a fault in the FOUR walls after the FIRST wall, given that the fuselage would have had to remained intact in order to go thru the FIFTH wall in the first photo.

    9. How does one "explain" why the HEAVY jet engines were not recovered but other minor LIGHT debris was recovered?

    10. Do you believe the "magical" official story that the jet engines "phased" thru the C Ring wall and then "boiled" away in the fire?

    11. Why DOESN'T the government release more than 5 blurry still photos of the many recordings that exist, and remove all doubt about what happened?

    12. This is IRREFUTABLE PROOF that a 767 jet did not hit the Pentagon, because NOBODY has YET come up with a way to a way to make 6000 pound INTACT jet engines diasapper between the FIRST outer wall and the FOURTH inner wall while an INTACT hollow tube fuselage makes it thru to the FIFTH wall and beyond!

    BTW: The jet engine debris found was OBVIOUSLY planted, because how could an smaller internal part of a jet engine make it without "boiling" away but not the larger titanium housing and larger compressor blades?

    Sorry it was a hardened steel missle that punched its way thru FIVE WALLS to make that symetrical hole in the first photo. The jet engines are the only debris that can not be planted because of their huge size and weight, so UNLESS somebody can show pictures of the titanium jet engine parts being found, CRITICAL THINKING people KNOW that a missle hit the Pentagon and not a 767 jet, BECAUSE 6000 POUND JET ENGINES DO NOT JUST DISAPPEAR!

    How can ANYBODY believe anything so ridiculous!
    • Hortnon, on 10/11/2007, -7/+6http://www.itap.purdue.edu/enablingthefuture/video/9-11%20Pentagon%20Visualization%20hi.asx
      Complete with Loose Change-like soundtrack. That means it's legit, right?
      http://www.cs.purdue.edu/cgvlab/projects/pentagon.htm
      Several simulations, both WTC and Pentagon.
      http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1
      A long writeup. Good read.
      • critthinker, on 10/11/2007, -6/+5The rationale in the link you provided is even more ridiculous than the original lie, because the engines are even larger than I thought at 47,000 pounds and not 6000 pounds!

        The fuselage can made a 13 feet hole in the wall, but the engines on the side of the fuselage just "phase" thru the wall!

        Did the engines just "phase" thru the wall and then "boil" away, because the debris in the pictures no way add up to two 47,000 pound engines!

        Just a bunch of planted parts! Sorry Hornton, that link just proves that the author IGNORES spacial relationships!
        • Hortnon, on 10/11/2007, -3/+8Way to go. Picking one part of the whole article, to discredit all 3 things I posted.

          critthinker, indeed...
        • critthinker, on 10/11/2007, -6/+2Critical Thinking means not IGNORING the FACTS that DISPROVE a HYPOTHESIS!

          HYPOTHESIS: A 757 jet hit the Pentagon

          FACT: A 757 jet has two 47,000 pound jet engines containing titanium, a metal with a much higher melting point than the metal in the wheel rims "supposedly" found in the debris.

          FACT: Nowhere near 96,000 pounds of jet engine parts are found, no housing, no compressor impellor, just small internal parts.

          FACT: The debris that was found was small and easy to plant.

          FACT: The debris that was NOT found was huge and hard to plant.

          CONCLUSION: If a 757 jet did hit the Pentagon, most if not all of the 96,000 punds of engine should have been found, since it was not found, a 757 jet DID NOT HIT THE PENTAGON!

          I have yet to hear you or Herk, even try to explain how the titanium in the huge engine housings disappeared?

          Why is that?

          Is it because even you two, know how silly your explanation would sound?
        • ViperDaimao, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7Seriously, what do you have to counter all the people at the pentagon who saw the damn plane?
          Here's a conspiracy theorist who doesn't even believe that there was no plane and shows all the eyewitnesses who saw the plane http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77penta03.html
        • Herkimer56, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7Okay, dumbass, I've tried to be nice about this but you're either retarded or being deliberately obtuse. Go to this web site and take a look at the pictures there. They're just pictures, they won't hurt you. They might, however, educate you.

          http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html
        • ViperDaimao, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7Crit, the problem is that none of those are facts, merely you're baseless uneducated assertions followed by unwarranted conclusions.
        • critthinker, on 10/11/2007, -5/+3Re: ViperDaimao & Herkimer56

          When people resort to calling "names", it is because they cannot REFUTE what you say.

          How many people can really tell the difference between a jet or a missle in a split second?

          And how does that explain why 94,000 pounds of jet engines were NOT found between the E ring and C Ring?

          How do you explain the two 47,000 pounds of jet engine not being found?

          The pictures in the links show small parts when a whole engine looks like this:
          http://www.freefoto.com/preview/20-01-51?ffid=20-01-51&k=Jet+Engine

          What is either of your HYPOTHESIS as to why the titaniumum housing and huge vanes were not found?

          If it melted, you would have a huge clump of titanium.

          If it shattered, your would have piles of titaniuim scaps.

          If it boiled away, etherything else would have boiled away too.

          Please explain what happened to all that titanium without resorting to "magic"!

          Critical thinking people unlike you CANNOT JUST IGNORE this question!

          I repeat - What happened to the tens of thousands of pounds of titanium in the jet engines?

          Neither me nor ANYONE elseI has ever saw a picture of that titanium being recovered, or a word about it being recovered, and since they WEREN"'T recovered, then a 757 plane did NOT hit the Pentagon!
        • ViperDaimao, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6I've called you no names

          "How many people can really tell the difference between a jet or a missle in a split second? "
          I'd say 99 out of 100 could. and the 100th guy only because he's blind.

          http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary
          138 people saw the plane approach the Pentagon.

          104 saw the plane hit the Pentagon.

          6 were nearly hit by the plane in front of the Pentagon. Several others were within 100 feet of the impact.

          26 said it was an American Airlines jet.

          39 others mentioned that it was a large jet/commercial airliner.

          2 described a smaller corporate jet. 1 described a "commuter plane" but didn't mention the size.

          7 said it was a Boeing 757.

          7 witnesses were pilots. One witness was an Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower Chief.

          2 witnesses were firefighters working on their truck at the Pentagon heliport.

          4 made radio calls to inform emergency services that a plane had hit the Pentagon.

          10 said the plane's flaps and landing gear were not deployed (1 thought landing gear struck a light pole).

          16 mentioned seeing the plane hit light poles/trees, or were next to to the poles when it happened. Another 8 mentioned the light poles being knocked down: it's unknown if they saw them hit.

          40 mentioned seeing aircraft debris. 2 mentioned seeing airline seats. 3 mentioned engine parts.

          15 mentioned smelling or contacting aviation/jet fuel.

          3 had vehicles damaged by light poles or aircraft debris. Several saw other occupied vehicles damaged.

          3 took photographs of the aftermath.

          Many mentioned false alarm warnings of other incoming planes after the crash. One said "3-4 warnings."

          And of course,

          0 saw a military aircraft or missile strike the Pentagon.

          0 saw a plane narrowly miss the Pentagon and fly away.

          No plane hit the Pentagon? Tell that to Mickey Bell, Sean Boger, Omar Campo, Michael DiPaula, Frank Probst, and Jack Singleton, all of whom saw flight 77 approach and came within feet of being struck as it roared across the Pentagon lawn. Probst dove out of the way to avoid being hit by the 757's right engine
        • SpaceMonkeyZero, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6So critterthinker: Are all the non-Pentagon civilians who SAW the plane in on it too? Are they all lying? Are they on some payroll?
      • ViperDaimao, on 10/11/2007, -4/+6Further, from the same link in the previous post

        A brief (which is more than it deserves) look at the "A missile hit the Pentagon" theory
        1) No missile was seen or heard by anyone. All eyewitnesses report a passenger jet crash.

        2) No missile debris was found.
        3) Missiles do not carry thousands of gallons of jet fuel, which caused massive fires.
        4) Missiles do not carry the remains and personal belongings of flight 77 passengers and crew.
        5) Missiles do not carry tons of 757 debris.
        6) In the diagram below, the yellow dots indicate the broken light poles. The red line indicates the path a missile would have to take in order to knock them over, or the missile would have to have a wingspan of over 100 feet. The Tomahawk Cruise missile that Loose Change suggests hit the Pentagon has a wingspan of 8 feet 9 inches (2.67 m). click the link for lots of pictures and wreckage that you claim as a fact "doesn't exist"
        • critthinker, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3RE: ViperDaimao

          The name calling refered to Herk, sorry that I responed to both your posts at the same time.

          I repeat - The debris was planted!

          I repeat - If a 757 jet hit the Pentagon, where is the titaniuim that houses these huge 47,000 pound jet engines?

          http://www.freefoto.com/preview/20-01-51?ffid=20-01-51&k=Jet+Engine


          Why do you IGNORE this question, and the ramifications of the answer?

          You tell me, what do you think happened to the engine housing and impellor?

          Do you believe that titanium boiled away in the fire, but the other smaller engine debris not made of titanium did not boil away?

          Do you have any idea of what the melting, yet alone boiling point of titanium is? (see periodic table)

          I repeat - If it was a 757 jet plane, WHERE ARE THE TITANIUM ENGINE HOUSINGS?

          Nothing you say addresses that, why not?

          I do not have to PROVE it was a missle, I just have to DISPROVE that it was a jet!
        • ViperDaimao, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6because the fact that you claim you can't find some part of an engine does not negate the fact that over 100 people saw the plane. The fact that a missile doesn't explain how the light poles were all knocked down along with the other damage that was caused. The fact that body parts were found littered around the crash area and in the pentagon hole itself. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

          http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml
          One common question we've seen on sites critical of a Boeing 757 striking the Pentagon is why is there so little engine wreckage. The only identifiable engine components seen so far are the two discussed above. Since these pieces represent so little of the two large engines carried by a 757, those believing in conspiracy suggest that these small items were planted and the lack of more substantial debris is proof of a cover-up. If a 757 truly hit the Pentagon, they argue, then where is the rest of the two engines? This argument ignores the simple fact that a lack of photos of other engine parts does not mean that none existed, only that other engine components were either not photographed or the photos have not yet been released.

          Luckily, several readers have pointed out an additional picture that was released as an exhibit during the Zacarias Moussaoui terrorist trial in 2006. This photo, shown below, clearly includes a sizeable and relatively intact portion of a gas turbine engine.

          Here, read the investigation and examination done by the american society of civil engineers: http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf
          Is that enough of an investigation for you? It's just one of many.
    • Herkimer56, on 10/11/2007, -8/+6http://www.911myths.com/html/pentagon_4.html

      A "planted" part of an engine? Do you realize that this photo was originally on rense.com? Isn't he one of the guys that has been supporting your stupid little truther movement? Are you calling one of your own guys a liar? Are you just dumb or what?
      • critthinker, on 10/11/2007, -5/+8This is what a complete jet engine look like: http://www.freefoto.com/preview/20-01-51?ffid=20-01-51&k=Jet+Engine

        I am sorry if you do not have the INTELLECT to realize that if a 757 jet hit the Pentagon it those engines would have had to come off between the outer E ring wall and the inner C ring wall.

        I sorry if you believe those engines could have "phased" thru the C ring wall, but your believe is based on "magic" and no what we learned in kintergarten about spacial relationships.

        How come you REFUSE to answeer the question that PROVES that a 757 hit the Pentagon?

        Where is all the titanium in the 47,000 pound engines in the above picture?

        Only a person of tiny INTELLECT would believe that two 47,000 pound engines would leave the tiny bit of engine debris found in the links posted!

        IGNORING a FACT that disproves a HYPOTHESIS does not make it true, no matter how much you wish it does!
      • Herkimer56, on 10/11/2007, -7/+6I see you went the dumb route. I'm not surprised.
        • critthinker, on 10/11/2007, -5/+6What is sad is how both Horton and Herkimer56, never address the question?

          I keep asking, but you keep avoiding!

          Your lame techniques do not work with critical thinking people like me who can solve detective novels because we know what questions to ask.

          I repeat - Were is the titanimum that encased the 47,000 pound jet engines?

          I am sorry, this question and its answer DISPROVE the official lie because 94,000 pounds of titanium does not just disappear!

          Keep avoiding the question, because you know you will look silly trying to explain how it "boiled" away.

          • Hortnon, on 10/11/2007, -5/+6For the sake of dealing with you, I won't argue the melting part.

            #1 The engines are not made of 100% titanium. That would be stupid
            #2 Why would the engines be completely intact if they impacted reinforced concrete at 500 MPH?
          • Herkimer56, on 10/11/2007, -6/+6I gave you a link where you could see pictures of pieces of the engine that were found inside the Pentagon. Did you not go look at the pictures, precious? Did you not understand what you saw? I didn't give you anything to read because I thought that pictures would be easier for you to understand. If you're still having problems with the material I would suggest finding an adult to help you.
          • Herkimer56, on 10/11/2007, -5/+7By the way, just in case you missed this earlier, lugnut, I'll post it again for you:

            http://home.planet.nl/~reijd050/JoeR/pentahole_dimensions_est.htm
          • ViperDaimao, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6There could be many reasons why you can't find pictures of all the engine parts. Maybe you just aren't looking hard enough, maybe the pictures are hard to find, maybe they didn't take pictures, maybe the part wasn't found by investigators, maybe it broke up into something unrecognizable. See these are are more reasonable explantions that "There was no plane". As I've patiently explained to you.

            38 people saw the plane approach the Pentagon. 104 saw the plane hit the Pentagon. 6 were nearly hit by the plane in front of the Pentagon. Several others were within 100 feet of the impact. 26 said it was an American Airlines jet. 39 others mentioned that it was a large jet/commercial airliner. 2 described a smaller corporate jet. 1 described a "commuter plane" but didn't mention the size. 7 said it was a Boeing 757. 7 witnesses were pilots. One witness was an Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower Chief. 2 witnesses were firefighters working on their truck at the Pentagon heliport. 4 made radio calls to inform emergency services that a plane had hit the Pentagon. 10 said the plane's flaps and landing gear were not deployed (1 thought landing gear struck a light pole). 16 mentioned seeing the plane hit light poles/trees, or were next to to the poles when it happened. Another 8 mentioned the light poles being knocked down: it's unknown if they saw them hit. 40 mentioned seeing aircraft debris. 2 mentioned seeing airline seats. 3 mentioned engine parts. 15 mentioned smelling or contacting aviation/jet fuel. 3 had vehicles damaged by light poles or aircraft debris. Several saw other occupied vehicles damaged. 3 took photographs of the aftermath. Many mentioned false alarm warnings of other incoming planes after the crash. One said "3-4 warnings." And of course, 0 saw a military aircraft or missile strike the Pentagon. 0 saw a plane narrowly miss the Pentagon and fly away. No plane hit the Pentagon? Tell that to Mickey Bell, Sean Boger, Omar Campo, Michael DiPaula, Frank Probst, and Jack Singleton, all of whom saw flight 77 approach and came within feet of being struck as it roared across the Pentagon lawn. Probst dove out of the way to avoid being hit by the 757's right engine

            Tell me how all those people saw something that wasn't there. They all saw the forest, you're complaining because you can't find a twig, that there is no forest.
  • Hortnon, on 10/11/2007, -5/+5Know anything about the US court system? Let's say you bring 'those responsible' to trial.

    One of the great things about our courts is where the burden of proof lies. The prosecution has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant committed the crime.
    Let me clarify; The defendant is not required to prove they didn't do it. The prosecution is required that the defendant did it.

    So, for any of the people you claim were in on it to be convicted, you would have to use more than an alleged inconsistency.

    ...Good luck.
  • Albionshores, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4I know others disagree but I don't give a damn about getting them convicted. They could even disappear off and live out the rest of their days in luxurious mansions for all I care, I have other priorities.

    In review the 9-11 commission report has been found to be inadequate and incorrect. The events of 9-11 have been used to destroy the constitution, invade two countries, and has handed power to the corporations and lobbying industries. And if it was a choice that putting all this right meant letting some crooks get away with it then so be it.

    As it is you can have your cake and eat it. Put it right and find those responsible.

    But the important thing is to establish what happened because right now the inaccuracies of the commission report are being used to justify a foreign policy of aggression and conquest.
  • earwigjoe, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Timothy Shaylor rocks........especially now hes lost a few pounds and shaved for the cameras....
    no seriously Timothy is clearly a star.. so measured logical balanced yet understated and cannot be ignored......or dismissed....
    wish I could loss a few.
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