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917 Comments
- inactive, on 12/08/2008, -25/+833Yeah, it really sucks when people single out your group for persecution.
- jadex, on 11/09/2008, -39/+594This is a perfect example of why church _needs_ to stay out of state affairs.
- scottknick, on 11/09/2008, -19/+412Sounds like some religious groups want to have their wafer and eat it too.
As a church, you may be able to figure out a way to play political hardball and keep your non-profit status. But if you're going to target people politically, then you're going to become a political target yourself. No getting around it.
If you're going to pass the collection plate on Sunday and use the proceeds to alter the political process, then be prepared to have pickets outside the church door. Anything else is rank hypocrisy, and we all know what Jesus thought of hypocrites. - BFIrrera, on 11/09/2008, -24/+324Boo ***** Hoo. These churches have broken the rules of how they are supposed to be conducting themselves re: the political process & their tax exemption. Plain and simple. Let's not forget, as well, that there is SUPPOSED to be a separation of church and state. If we start to conduct our government based on any one religion's beliefs, then we can start legislating against the beliefs of the other churches/synagogues/mosques/etc...
We are NOT a theocracy. There is a very different thing between a civil marriage and a religious marriage. If people are fearful for the strength/sanctity of their marriage and anyone else's marriage somehow affects that then they should rightly be afraid.
Why isn't a 55 hour marriage in Las Vegas (Britney Spears) more offensive than a marriage of two people who have made a well-thought out, well planned for decision or who have already proven their longevity as a couple (Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon who were together for 58 years when they were finally married in California on June 16, 2008)? - apastafarian, on 11/09/2008, -22/+281Those touched by his noodley appendage know the answer. Well, we think we know the answer. OK, we don't KNOW the answer, but at least we understand the question. What was the question again?
The MSR (main stream religion, and yes, I just made that up) always cry oppression while they oppress. The term crocodile tears comes to mind. It never ceases to amaze me how some people can cry out in righteous indignation at their treatment and then in the next breath do the same to another without one bit of remorse. - Bastet62, on 11/09/2008, -21/+277Where was the Mormon church, hell, ANY church, when this country codified torture as policy, went to war against Iraq that caused the unnecessary deaths of over 4000+ troops and over a million Iraqi citizens? Where were they? Where was the outcry? Where was the organizing power to stop torture as policy? Where were the robo-calls denouncing torture and the end of habeas corpus? But somebody wants to marry someone of the same sex and all of a sudden they've got major bank and organizing skill to move against it? This is hypocrisy, this is cowardice - by their fruits ye shall know them. This fruit is rotten and it stinks to their imaginary high heaven.
- iceman0113, on 11/09/2008, -18/+271Somebody call the waaambulance.
- theNazz, on 11/09/2008, -14/+248I have a real problem with church groups using tax free money to buy Constitutional Amendment changes.
- ceredron, on 11/09/2008, -70/+303This brings up an akward point: is it allowed for people to use the power of the first amendment to take away rights?
I don't think this is such a simple issue; it isn't simply a matter of being allowed to speak your mind. When speaking your mind affects public policy, then you're delving into the grounds of politic, and that's a whole different ball game and territory. There's a difference between speaking out and taking away other people's rights, ESPECIALLY in areas where you aren't directly affected, no matter what the mormons and catholics may say.
P.S. It just sickens me that so many would be so eager to take away the rights of others without any significant legal or urgent reasoning behind their actions. - Awesomecat, on 11/09/2008, -13/+164The Internal Revenue Service provides a handy, easy-to-use form for registering a complaint against a non-profit organization. The IRS is already researching one church (ATLAH Worldwide) for using the pulpit for politics. If you feel strongly that Prop 8 is grounds for removing the tax-exempt status, take action and register a complaint. Be sure to cite a specific church, and any related content that demonstrates the violation.
http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=178241,00.htm ... - megapeg, on 11/09/2008, -23/+163The difference between gay people and extremely religious people is that homosexuality is not a choice.
- rendersan, on 11/09/2008, -7/+121The freedom of speech guaranteed by the first amendment is specifically referring to political speech, and it protects the rights of both sides of the debate. The truth is that both parties felt that their rights were being trampled on. There's nothing wrong with their being able to say so publicly, even though both sides of the campaign were backed by churches.
Would you want to live in a country where free speech was limited by how offensive it was to some people? Such a place might not allow arguments in favor of gay marriage. - inactive, on 11/09/2008, -7/+101A famous man said, "My rights end where they infringe upon yours." Trying to take away to fundamental rights of other humans, especially for such childish and repulsive reason (they are different from you and allegedly god wants you to [I read the Bible, and I must say I don't remember that part, but I'll let it go for now]) - is the most anti-American thing you can do. Not only is it unconstitutional (and does not fall under free speech, see above), but it defies the founding principles of our country - that everyone, regardless of their origins, beliefs, or other differences, could come here and live in peace and unity as part of one new, glorious people - the American people.
I openly decry the actions of these people. I decry them as a real, loyal, and patriotic American. I decry them in the name of poor Jesus, who's had their hate speech shoved in his mouth and can't defend himself from them. I decry the fact that now that the cowards have to deal with the consequences of their actions, they would *DARE* try to whine about *THEIR* rights being violated after that's *EXACTLY* what they did. They can't take their own poison and find them even more cowardly for it.
I beg California (and wish my home state of Florida would do the same, but I have much less hope there) to send a clear message to these people and repeal this hate crime. In the name of the progress we have made since our founding, made manifest in PRESIDENT Barack Obama, appeal this! - bionicvskungfu, on 11/09/2008, -27/+118Ban Mormon and Catholic marriages!!
- omnithought, on 11/10/2008, -16/+103For *****'s sake, this issue is so simple: if you are against gay marriage, don't marry a gay person. It's really that easy.
- PrintScrn12, on 11/10/2008, -3/+86Note also the Mormon church is not being persecuted in this case. Rather it is being criticised and protested against for it's actions.
They aren't even being singled out. The Catholic church is getting flak too. Of course complaining that other organisations took the same position isn't really a defence against criticism, nor defence of the position. It's simply requesting that all such organisation get criticised too. - BobakN, on 11/09/2008, -9/+89Nothing can change until those opposed to same-sex marriage realize that this is a civili liberty and not a something that can be voted upon. People cite the election results as "What's done is done, let's move on." But really, it should have never even come to a vote because that would be like us voting on whether or not a black person could marry a white person. If they are two consenting people, whatever the situation, let them be what they want to be, particularly if it brings no personal harm to you. (And I don't want to hear the stupid argument that it brings personal harm by "cheapening" your marriage. Divorce is what cheapens marriage, not people of the same sex.)
- jimchap, on 11/09/2008, -20/+99Too bad these bigots need to hide under the robe of Jesus to push their social agenda. They should pay double for the misery the inflict on perfectly innocent folks.
A "Cletus Tax".
Everyone of them will burn in their imaginary Hell. - Bith8654, on 11/10/2008, -7/+86Separation of church and state? What a novel idea!
- sarge96, on 11/10/2008, -5/+71The only thing I have a problem with is the unwillingness of the church to take responsibility for their actions. You spent millions of bucks to pass some law, now guess what? People are pissed, and you have to take the blame. If you're going to support something, you'd damn well better be ready to take crap for supporting it.
- JoeMondo, on 11/10/2008, -8/+70They can be upset if they want to be, but they're not the ones who had their civil rights removed.
- skyshock1, on 11/10/2008, -9/+68I think the very SECOND a church begins to directly meddle in affairs of state, they should lose their tax-exempt status.
- pintomp3, on 11/10/2008, -6/+57if the church wants to participate in political speech, it should lose it's tax exempt status. btw, they can have their free speech without taking away the rights of others. if the church wants to be like the klan, that's fine. but the klan rarely gets it's laws passed anymore.
- Phylter, on 11/09/2008, -11/+62If you kick a hornet's nest, don't whinge when they come out stingin'... This is exactly what they've done.
Bottom line... ***** 'em. They deserve hate being directed back at them. Jesus would cast them out of the temple (I love fairy tales...) - toxictonic, on 11/09/2008, -8/+59Bah. Churches who are run like a profit based business shouldn't be able to get tax exempt status. *****, all churches are run like a profit based business!
- mtnmusicman, on 11/09/2008, -5/+53Upset? Why the hell are they so upset? So they think there are no gay or lesbian people that are of their religion? Worry about war, famine, children who are raped, murdered and worse. Give it a break !
- pintomp3, on 11/10/2008, -2/+48interracial marriage used to be illegal for similar reasons:
http://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/gay ... - Weatherwaxx, on 11/10/2008, -2/+43They're crying because there's a movement afoot asking the IRS to investigate the Mormon Church's tax-exempt status. One of the requirements for said status is that they cannot use "substantial" effort to influence politics or legislation.
They don't want to have to pay taxes like other people -- they just want to tell everyone what they think God wants. They're a bunch of egotistical freeloaders... do you know how much resort property the LD$ owns in Utah?
www.thepetitionsite.com/1/review-the-501c3-status-of-the-church-of-latter-day-saints-the-mormons - AnarchoGoth, on 11/10/2008, -1/+42If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.
- THETEH, on 11/09/2008, -5/+46If they didn't want to become the targets of protestors, maybe they shouldn't have spent so much money on stopping people who love each other from getting married. I can't believe gay marriage is still an issue. I thought that, in this day and age, most people outgrew their fear of gays at age 13. These people need to grow up and get their heads out of the middle ages.
- gordonj, on 11/09/2008, -4/+43In cases like this I always ask myself "WWFSMD?"
- charm803, on 11/09/2008, -4/+41His Noodly Goodness promotes tolerance for all!
- Aguyinachair, on 11/10/2008, -1/+38Churches can define marriage however they want, they don't have to marry gays, just like they don't have to put women in as priests. I'm not saying it's right, but that's their choice as a religion.
The whole legal issue though is very different. Gays should receive all legal benefits from getting married, but if the church they belongs to doesn't see their right to get married, join a different religion. - Lula87, on 11/09/2008, -15/+52Oh, I'm sorry, mormon and catholic churches. I forgot that this is ALL ABOUT YOU AND YOUR RIGHTS.
*cough* - julianrod, on 11/10/2008, -5/+40I think they should lose their tax-exempt status from the get-go.
- sgiffy, on 11/09/2008, -6/+41Replace same-sex with interracial and gay and lesbian with black and you can see how stupid they sound.
- oldhick, on 11/09/2008, -4/+39The answer is YES. Why would you think it's awkward? The first amendment protects all speech regardless of its intent with very few exceptions.
- xt0ph3r, on 11/10/2008, -0/+34I'd vote NO on that prop too.
Cuz I'm not a hypocrite.
Sometimes it sucks being on the moral highground. - ThsGuyRightHere, on 11/10/2008, -0/+34I agreed with you up until the bombing comment. If you don't like Proposition 8, do work to support it getting repealed in two years.
- ThsGuyRightHere, on 11/10/2008, -2/+36I would imagine that since gay marriage promotes contact with noodly appendages, the FSM would definitely be anti-Prop8.
- eagee, on 11/10/2008, -10/+42Actually the difference between gay people and extremely religious people is that homosexuality is not a mental disorder.
- GrandmaSheila, on 11/09/2008, -16/+48All these cults are the same, actively persecuting "others", and screaming "persecution" when anybody argues with them.
I hope the protests keep growing, and more people get involved in the fight for our gay sisters and brothers to live their lives openly, in dignity and peace as all humans have the unalienable right to do.
And, how many hungry could you feed, how many homeless could you shelter, how many unemployed families could you help with bills, or to keep their homes, how many schools could you fund with the money poured into promoting this evil, hate-filled bill?
What does it say about these pious hypocrites, that they prefer to spend millions on perverting democracy to promote oppression? - seltaeb4, on 11/10/2008, -5/+35I bet that will shut them up rather quickly!
- batmanz, on 11/09/2008, -8/+36See the church's official statement on the passage of prop 8 in my reply.
- eir574, on 11/09/2008, -2/+29"The freedom of speech guaranteed by the first amendment is specifically referring to political speech, and it protects the rights of both sides of the debate"
That may have been the main intent behind the first amendment, but that is not how it's written. It protects all speech, not just political speech, unless there are other overriding concerns (such as public safety -- the classic you can't yell 'fire' in a crowded theater when there is no fire example comes to mind). - tacochampion, on 11/10/2008, -7/+33They're deserving all the criticism they're getting.
They spent a huge amount of money to have people's rights taken away.
You don't have to be gay to know that the constitution shouldn't be amended to further limit the rights of ANYONE. - satanatnmtedu, on 11/10/2008, -12/+37You deserve to be dugg down for your lack of objectivity. Effort was made by Mormons to stop gay marriage in California. If the church was against the effort, it could easily have stopped it. The church is culpable here, but you cannot see it. And, it is very sad.
- uelydnar, on 11/10/2008, -0/+23I don't get the whole "gay marriage will be taught in schools" bit. I never remembered being taught what marriage was when i was growing up. I just caught the gist of it when I watched enough Disney movies. After all of this Prop 8 deception, if i were a teacher, I would teach gay marriage to all of my kids just to get sued by some religious nut who think Prop 8 bans gay marriage from being taught in schools.
- SSPink, on 11/10/2008, -1/+24Gays, Transgenders Upset At Being Target Of Prop 8 Discrimination
Gee, I wonder what I should be more upset about, a group of people having their rights taken away because of their sexual orientation or the organizations that supported that discrimination having mean things said about them... - BelatedHero, on 11/10/2008, -0/+23http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majori ...
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