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42 Comments
- SocialSound1982, on 12/14/2007, -1/+27From Think Progress:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/13/house-passes-b ...
In a 222-199 vote, the House today passed the FY2008 Intelligence Authorization bill, which bans waterboarding and confines the CIA “to the interrogation tactics permitted by the Army Field Manual on Human Intelligence Collector Operations. Rep. Jerrold Nadler’s (D-NY) remarked, “[This] means no more torture, no more waterboarding, no more clever wordplay, no more evasive answers, no more dishonesty.” - inactive, on 12/14/2007, -1/+20In before the bitchers - here is the AFJ article.
http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2007/12/3230108 - glasnostic, on 12/14/2007, -2/+16lets here the neo-cons call that military panel a bunch of America haters.
- SantafromNorth, on 12/14/2007, -1/+14Anybody in the administraton who supported waterboarding should be indicted for high crimes and misdemeanors in subverting the proscription in the Constitution against cruel & unusual punishment!
- GhostyBoy, on 12/14/2007, -1/+13I think the fact that there is any debate at all on water-boarding is embarrassing for all of us. It's ***** torture. End of discussion.
- gsadamb, on 12/14/2007, -1/+11Clearly, the Air Force Journal is just part of the biased liberal media...
Wait, what? - Shigglyboo, on 12/14/2007, -1/+11it's a nice gesture. however, we're kinda already "dugg in", by that I mean, we already said we don't torture, so nobody who could get in trouble for it is going to fess up to anything. first they'd have to admit they lied, and then tell us why. I read somewhere that if we already know the info gained through torture is not useful then the only other reasonable assumption is that we're doing this in the hopes of obtaining CONVINCING YET FALSE info that can be used to further subvert our rights and perpetuate a system of war/rebuilding for profit.
Our government wants you and me to be mindless worker drones to support the ruling class. make no mistake. there is a war afoot, it's the war on lower class people. the ruling class wants us in our place: serving them and increasing THEIR profits. - br0ck, on 12/14/2007, -1/+10Article VI of the constitution: "This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."
This makes the Geneva Convention signed in 1949 a constitutionally required rule of law: http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm and the Geneva Convention contains numerous requirement to treat prisoners with respect and not torture them. For example, "No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind." - Frei, on 12/14/2007, -1/+9A once proud troll reduced to that. Almost a shame.
- bsmang, on 12/14/2007, -1/+7Uhoh... AFJ is against waterboarding, and, gasp, torture! I can't wait to see how the rash of torture fans who have recently ascended upon digg will respond to this...
- bsmang, on 12/14/2007, -0/+6No rebuttal there, nasty? Don't tell me you've finally realized just how brilliant you really aren't.
- inactive, on 12/14/2007, -1/+6considering that I posted the link to the AFJ article WAY before you made that comment just goes to show that jerks like you want to be willfully ignorant.
- bovox, on 12/14/2007, -1/+6Someone should ask these creeps if they were fine with American POWs being waterboarded as a standard interrogation technique.
- flave, on 12/14/2007, -0/+5Strictly speaking, the US convicted a Japanese officer of war crimes and sentenced him to 15 years hard labor for using waterboarding during WWII. We had no problems calling it torture then.
What changed? - inactive, on 12/14/2007, -1/+5Here's a scenario for you. Who do you think is more likely to surrender, an enemy soldier who knows that they will be well-treated when captured or one who knows that they will be tortured?
- JoeVet, on 12/15/2007, -0/+4As an American soldier my life is at greater danger because my government condones the use of torture. All enemies can now torture their American captives with impunity because we have declared to the world that we condone such behavior. So we have not only lost any moral edge we once held in the world but we have increased the dangers our soldiers face. And all because Americans have become so yellow bellied scared of their own shadows that they are no longer able to stand like men and do the right thing.
- octus, on 12/14/2007, -0/+4It has its roots in the Spanish Inquisition? I wonder if they use it in conjunction with the pillows and the comfy chair.
- gsadamb, on 12/14/2007, -0/+4I hear totalitarian states offer fantastic security because of the unchecked police presence anywhere and the ability for them to do what they need to do without that pesky law getting in the way.
Anything to save lives. - gsadamb, on 12/14/2007, -0/+3Arg, and I meant Armed Forces Journal. Oh well.
- opiniastrous, on 12/16/2007, -0/+3I'm glad this was Dugg. I was sick and tired of everyone attacking the profession of arms for being ruthless and immoral. It is not. It holds itself to standards that are far beyond what most other professions do (even if abuses of that code sometimes occur).
On another note, doesn't anyone find it a little funny that so many people here are talking about the AFJ as if they are experts; commenting on its political leanings, etc. and saying why that shows it is not biased. Do you get what I mean? For example, the statement "We're talking about the editors of Armed Forces Journal, a publication not known for its liberal leanings..." almost sounds as if the person is saying everyone here regularly reads the AFJ, and its political leanings were commonly known. - krnldmp, on 12/14/2007, -1/+4Bush yes man Mukasey is an Active supporter of torture and was hired specifically to defend the administration. He's better at making excuses than Gonzales.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic ... - Izult, on 12/16/2007, -0/+3I know how it is. There's more people wanting to leave their rose colored glasses on.
- bsmang, on 12/14/2007, -0/+2I think SantafromNorth is in fact the real Santa. And it seems those CIA interrogation videos would have made some great evidence of crimes... not hard to imagine why they might have been destroyed.
- bsmang, on 12/14/2007, -1/+3And what's better, they explain in clear text and no uncertain terms that torture simply does not work. Period. It's not a question of "should we refrain from it even though it works", because it does NOT WORK.
- johnnick, on 12/15/2007, -0/+2I'm sorry, did you jump into the conversation without reading the headline or the article? We're not talking about Democrats or Republicans here. We're talking about the editors of Armed Forces Journal, a publication not known for its liberal leanings, and AFJ is the entity that said waterboarding is torture and that they are against it. So which of the "Democratic" editors of the Armed Forces Journal do you think want to coddle terrorists?
- thawkth, on 12/14/2007, -1/+3Our government in it's entirety is embarassing to say the least. The country is being dragged by a few against the will of the many, yet they are so confined and restricted that nobody even knows how to react.
What does one do?
I work to spread the word and make people aware, but people don't care. They won't until it's too late. - inactive, on 12/14/2007, -0/+2America wasn't a Fascist State then.
- mikebaldwin67, on 12/15/2007, -0/+2Giuliani is truely done for when even major voices in the neocon and republican community are publicly condeming his views on the matter. Not to mention the amount of scandals made public about him could fill volumes.
- johnnick, on 12/15/2007, -0/+2Haven't you heard? 9/11 changed everything! ;-)
- kreneskyp, on 12/15/2007, -0/+1if we just start world war 3 already and nuke everyone off the planet just think of all the future generations that won't be born. If they can't be born they can't die. WE'LL SAVE INFINITE LIVES!
- newbill123, on 12/14/2007, -0/+1"Waterboarding is a torture technique that has its history rooted in the Spanish Inquisition."
But they have nothing to worry about since they don't speak Spanish. - mikebaldwin67, on 12/15/2007, -1/+2It will be vetoed.
- inactive, on 12/15/2007, -0/+1Republicans are loons,You're living proof.
- johnnick, on 12/15/2007, -0/+1And so far, all we have are the claims of the people who performed the acts of torture that what they did prevented attacks or saved lives. Hmmm....Experienced interrogators say it doesn't work and leads to false information, but the people who did it say it worked, but they can't tell us what they learned because it would compromise their intelligence and they destroyed the video tapes that could have represented what little evidence they had. Kinda makes you wonder.
- Jonjonr6, on 12/14/2007, -1/+2Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
- inactive, on 12/14/2007, -3/+3Republicans=Inbred gargoyles.
- inactive, on 12/14/2007, -0/+0Arrg crap,Accidently buried you.
- johnnygriswold, on 12/14/2007, -2/+1If Dems had their way, tickling would be a banned method of interrogation. Dems probably want to council these terrorists and give them free healthcare and a monthly welfare check to cure them of their terrorist ways.
- unixer, on 12/14/2007, -13/+2Anything to save lives.
- inactive, on 12/14/2007, -14/+2Really? and where in the constitution did it say we cannot do it? oh it must be right next to abortion rights.
- ObamaPwnHillary, on 12/14/2007, -14/+0http://www.ObamaPwnsHillary.com
- inactive, on 12/14/2007, -19/+2Thinkprogress = 2girls1cup
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