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- idhindsight, on 08/28/2008, -3/+41Congrats on completely ignoring the law of diminishing returns.
Furthermore, congrats on ignoring numbers /altogether/.
The majority of Americans are in the middle class. They are the largest in number, which means they are the greatest consumers of goods. If these people don't have extra money left over at the end of each month due to stagnating wages and rising cost of living (house market crisis only compounding this) then they aren't going to be buying goods.
This is why consumer debt has skyrocketed, as you've seen more and more materialistic Americans borrowing to buy items that they arguably do not need. But it's gotten past a point of no return, with more and more people borrowing to buy gas, groceries, basic necessities.
By lowering taxes on the middle class, you put more money back into their pockets, lightening their load.
If a guy makes 50k a year, and you give him an extra $2500, that's an increase of 5%. That $2500 buys a whole hell of a lot of food and energy.
Conversely, if you take 5% from a man who makes five million a year, you're taking $250,000. That sounds like a lot of money, but keep in mind that this guy still gets to keep $4,750,000. That's a lot more money.
If you want to continue believing this republican party myth that if you let the rich and privileged business owners keep more of their money that they will somehow invest that money back into the economy, please, by all means, vote for John McCain. But if you have been paying attention to the past eight years, you'll realize that that truly is a myth. When the rich get to keep more of their money, they do just that.
They keep it. - sklter84, on 08/28/2008, -9/+31Tax cuts help out those with lower taxes and thus most likely lower incomes because taxes take up a disproportionately larger amount out of their income needed for necessities. Millionaires don't spend millions on basic food and clothing, most of it goes into investing into each other's ventures. It's the lower income brackets where tax cuts you would see more spending than investing and money is more likely to trickle up than downwards.
- gr3yn3t, on 08/28/2008, -8/+30Except for the fact that McCain's tax cuts encourage people to take money OUT of their businesses and put it into their pockets...
- Dumbledorito, on 08/28/2008, -4/+25You can give all the tax cuts you want to "create jobs," but no jobs will be created unless demand for said jobs increases.
That doesn't happen by giving someone who already has wealth even more. It happens when the masses at the bottom has a few more coins to toss at non-essentials. - mrpither, on 08/28/2008, -41/+61news flash - if you pay little or no taxes, tax cuts aren't going to help you out much.
conversely, if you pay LOTS of taxes, tax cuts will be very helpful. and you know what you can do with money that isn't spent on taxes? stimulate the economy, create jobs, spend on R&D (in the field of alternative energy perhaps?). just imagine... - Stemnin, on 08/28/2008, -9/+27Why shouldn't he give tax breaks to himself and his wife? All those homes he owns costs him so much in taxes, he just can't keep track of it all, so cut 'em!
- MrFurious2k, on 08/28/2008, -8/+23So how exactly do you give tax cuts to people who aren't paying taxes? Of course tax cuts are going to provide more reductions to people in the upper tax brackets. That said, since 1980 (after Carter's term), when the top income tax rate was 70%, the richest 1% paid only 19% of all income taxes; now, with a top rate of 35%, they pay more than double that share (Wall Street Journal).
Right now, the top 25% pay 86% of all federal income taxes. So it stands to reason that if a tax cut occurs, they're the ones who are going to get most of the money back. But it'd be foolish to say that they're the only ones who'll see a benefit. - populistless, on 08/28/2008, -12/+27"if I can do it anyone can." Could be just a coincidence, but it seems like the guys whose fathers sent them to the private school I went to, placed them in the right frat, and had their contacts get them great entry level jobs are doing at a slightly higher rate than the average. And if you think these people worked hard for it, you were going to all the wrong frat parties.
- NJank, on 08/28/2008, -4/+18ahh, trickle-down economics, U.S.'s official idealistic Fallacy since the Reagan administration.
- pintomp3, on 08/28/2008, -11/+25the top 10% pay 65% of all taxes, but have 72% of all the wealth. what is wrong with paying their share?
- idhindsight, on 08/28/2008, -2/+15Please point to a single shred of evidence of this.
There's a large difference between corporate income tax and private income tax. - CaveDog, on 08/28/2008, -4/+16Or you could do what all the other super rich do. Spend it on *****. A very small percentage actually "create jobs". Unless you mean sales people at fancy stores and little children in Bangladesh sewing designer clothes, but I digress.
- renlay, on 08/28/2008, -5/+17I'm sorry, you are going to need to explain this, cause as it is your comment makes you look like a moron. Most of the tax cuts are on corporations, which we end up paying for their taxes anyways. Tax cuts are pointless anyways, we need a new tax system.
- oldgal, on 08/28/2008, -0/+11As Warren Buffet said in a speech last year, trickle down is a misnomer - it is really trickle up. I have always considered paying taxes part of the responsibility of citizenship in this country. Although I pay well in excess of $20,000 a year in taxes, I have never resented this tax burden. In fact in the 90's when my tax rates were higher I was able to save much more and pay off a house because inflation was under control, interest rates were low and my wages increased significantly. I personally like having good roads, safe food and products, contributing to space exploration, good educational institutions, etc. etc. I have never resented paying taxes, however, I do sometimes resent how they are spent - the Iraq war, subsidies for the rich, etc. From my point of view I would consider myself unpatriotic to bitch about my taxes when this country has provided me with the opportunities to enjoy such a high standard of living.
- gr3yn3t, on 08/28/2008, -4/+15When you reinvest profits in your business, you get a tax cut. (Under Obama and McSame)
When you pay out of your business, you get taxed.
Lower taxes will discourage reinvestment in business, and encourage people to take out their profits now while "taxes are low."
Sucks, I know. But that's how it is. - mantzdapantz, on 08/28/2008, -7/+18because rich people all donate to alternative energy research..
- pintomp3, on 08/28/2008, -4/+14widdout massa, i wodden have no job. please give massa mo money.
are you implying there can be no jobs unless you have a small but extremely wealthy group to supply them? that the only source of jobs throughout history has been international corporations? - brainflakes, on 08/28/2008, -2/+11Wow, it's amazing how much people buy that whole "tax breaks for the rich trickle down to you" *****. It's COMPANIES that provide jobs not their ***** managing directors.
Can you please explain how an MD taking home a few less hundred thousand out of a million dollar pay cheque will cause everyone to lose their jobs?? - KSUdesigner, on 08/28/2008, -3/+12I agree with you that they shouldn't be overtaxed, that's just stupid. The problem is that the Bush administration cut their taxes below what they should be taxed. They should at least pay their fair share, nothing more and nothing less, just like the rest of us. Why should the wealthiest people in the country pay less than what they are supposed to?
- brainflakes, on 08/28/2008, -2/+11Right so rich company directors employ people out of their own salary??? It's the companies that employ people and pay your wage, can you please explain to us how an MD taking home a few less hundred thousand out of a million dollar pay cheque will cause everyone to lose their jobs??
It's one thing to have a low tax on business profits, but an individuals income? I can't believe how many people actually believe "tax breaks for the rich trickle down to you". - Diggnabbit, on 08/28/2008, -0/+8"People that are wealthy buy products and services that are made by people that have a job to provide that product or service."
True, but proportionally, the middle class spend even more, and that money goes directly to stimulating the economy. - warsongs7, on 08/28/2008, -2/+10In theory yes. But in reality they are more likely to spend it on increasing their own incomes. Which occurs by cutting jobs and increasing production through other means, ie outsourcing.
- Diggnabbit, on 08/28/2008, -1/+9The idea that the rich "reinvest in the economy" more than others is a fallacy.
The rich save more than others. The working and middle class spend more of their income (or their tax cuts) than the rich. That's the money that goes into the economy. - flink405, on 08/28/2008, -3/+10On the front page of yesterday’s USA Today is a story on the latest numbers from the Census Bureau. In the past year, the median household income is up 1.3 percent, to $50,233; the poverty rate is unchanged at 12.5 percent, and the percentage of the public without health insurance dropped by half a percent to 15.3 percent.
I thought life was terrible in the U.S. - inactive, on 08/28/2008, -3/+10Then the money will sort of "trickle" down to the rest of us? Wow!
- WasabiBomb, on 08/28/2008, -1/+8And yet they don't.
- idhindsight, on 08/28/2008, -2/+9> Taxation is saying that its legal for the government to TAKE
> from you to do what they want with. I wonder how
> many people would be screaming for a smaller government
> if they didn't take the taxes out of your check from the start.
This is such a childish view of reality. How do people like you propose we pay for basic infrastructure? Forget health care and education, I'm talking about roads and bridges. - Diggnabbit, on 08/28/2008, -2/+9So, there are only two categories of people, the lower income people who "already do not pay any or very little income taxes" or the "wealthy?"
Fail. - david76, on 08/28/2008, -3/+10The level of ignorance in some of these comments is pretty amazing.
1) Even with the standard deduction, and earned income tax credit, poor people do pay taxes.
2) Reducing the tax rate on the lowest quintile reduces the tax burden on EVERYONE because we have a progressive tax, meaning if you lower the tax on the first $15k of income by 5% you reduce everyone's tax burden by $750.
"Tax breaks for the poor" are tax breaks for everyone. - KSUdesigner, on 08/28/2008, -2/+9This argument is false. You are implying that only the rich pay taxes. I'm sorry but the biggest deduction on my paycheck every week goes straight to the government. I may get a small refund at the end of every year (max I've ever seen was $300), but I still pay thousands in taxes every year through the deductions that are taking out of my paychecks. I may not have to write a fat check to the government during tax season, but to imply that middle class families don't pay income taxes is just ridiculous.
- gr3yn3t, on 08/28/2008, -3/+10Reagan hasn't brainwashed _everyone_ !
- prophet5, on 08/28/2008, -3/+9The only taxes that poor people pay are on their cigarettes, beer, and lottery tickets.
- duckley, on 08/28/2008, -2/+8Mostly, they invest it in sweatshops overseas that take American jobs.
- homercles337, on 08/28/2008, -15/+21Duh. McCain has been saying, "Bush Policies Work! But we need Bigger, More, Longer!" Is this message not getting through to most people or something?
- kreatre2007, on 08/28/2008, -2/+8Why can't we move on and stop all of this petty class envy *****? What the liberal media don't tell you is that the top 25% already pay over 80% of income taxes. That seems terribly unfair to me. Why should the government punish wealth? I work hard and earn the money to provide for myself, the things that I need and want and, I'm happy. I'm not getting a handout from the government and I don't want one -- EVER. What I do want is a tax policy that doesn't punish me as I my income increases. Tax cuts should be given across the board -- not to just one group. When the wealthiest among us are faced with higher taxes, they look for ways to get out of paying the higher taxes, they spend less and the people who benefit from their spending lose out as well. Trickle down economics does exist. Taxing the rich will only hurt the people who benefit from the disposable income that the rich spend every year. What this is really all about is the that the Democrat party wants to make Obama look like a savior. It's meant to make us hate the rich and hate big companies so that we will look to government instead of the free market for our salvation. It's about increasing the power of government over the people. In the end, the wealthy liberals like Obama stay rich. The rest of us stay poor and powerless. Don't doubt me on this.
- inactive, on 08/28/2008, -0/+6Yes, that's what offshore banks are for. The very rich tend to move their money out of the USA.
- fromaworld, on 08/28/2008, -9/+15I do not care how much Obama says he will lower taxes on anyone. In order to pay for all of his planned social programs (like universal health care) he will need over $1 Trillion in additional revenue. This money will come from *everyone* that pays taxes. And if the "rich" (a.k.a. small business owners) end up getting taxed disproportionately then they will find a way to pass that additional cost down to the "middle class" workers that they employ.
- IslandDog, on 08/28/2008, -4/+10Who are you to say what is "fair"? So many people don't pay taxes in this country, how is that "fair"?
- lanemik, on 08/28/2008, -8/+14lolwut? Care to elaborate a bit eh? Republicans are enabling people to become rich how? Democrats are changing the rules to prevent people from becoming rich how?
- inactive, on 08/28/2008, -4/+10You know, I get that, but why the *****, then, do conservatives keep promising tax cuts for the middle class? It's all "tax cuts for working families who need it most," when you have absolutely no intention of following through.
- The_Wallbanger, on 08/28/2008, -3/+8Are you being sarcastic? I don't think it's getting through to people because if you examine the past eight years of a failing economy Bush policies DON'T work.
- Dumbledorito, on 08/28/2008, -0/+5"The problem with your thoughts on that... ITS THEIR ***** MONEY."
Is it? Seems to me that when I earn money at an office, I have to pay taxes on said income. It's how I earn my living, I have to help pay for the society and its benefits, that's only fair.
But when someone "earns" by getting dividends, somehow that's NOT income, and other people with lots of money help to make sure that said money isn't taxed as heavily as income from a payroll.
It doesn't take too many brain cells to figure out that moving to "earning" via punching buttons on a computer and shuffling paper around isn't taxed nearly as much as labor that actually produces something. Funny old world, ain't it? - SpinningHead, on 08/28/2008, -2/+7Unfortunately, its not money the Republicans have been trickling down on us.
- RetlawST, on 08/28/2008, -0/+5If you're claiming your small business earnings on your personal taxes, you're an idiot. Especially at the lower levels. The closer you get to 200K, the more you should be thinking about hiring another employee to prevent you from getting there. Pay yourself, your employee. Your business now has less than 20K in cash assets (you should be aiming to get as close to 0 as possible) and you have more flexibility to expand. This might decrease your personal salary, but the potential becomes much higher for the future.
(note: this isn't EXACTLY how it works, but it pretty much sums up how you can remain in a lower tax bracket while starting up a successful small business) - inactive, on 08/28/2008, -4/+9Inaccurate? McCain has made his views quite clear on this, just as Bush has. Nobody but the rich deserves tax cuts.
- inactive, on 08/28/2008, -1/+6Lemme know when the rich start paying me more because I vote someone in that allows them to save more.
What? They actually CUT workers, and keep the pay low so they can have a better bottom line?
GASP! Get the ***** out of here with ***** trickle down economics. Anyone who has ever even had a job at all knows that more money in a business does NOT mean jack ***** for the worker except that he keeps his job, while management pats each other on the back for said worker's work with bonuses they don't deserve. - Diggnabbit, on 08/28/2008, -0/+5"When you raise taxes on the rich they actually pay less in april because they end up making less money. When you lower taxes on the rich they end up paying more to the government because they make more."
Sorry, it's not even close to that simple. - mstachiw, on 08/28/2008, -2/+7flat tax based on a set percentage and no corp tax breaks or bailouts is what this country needs. simple with no exceptions. aggressively pursue tax evasion.
either that or get rid of the IRS altogether. - SwarthmoreJack, on 08/28/2008, -1/+6We are not taxed on wealth, we are taxed on annual income. Until we die, anyway, then the government helps itself to 60% of our wealth, but only if we are "rich".
- david76, on 08/28/2008, -4/+9The article contains a link to the source material from the Tax Policy Center formed by the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institute.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411693_ ... -
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