What is Digg?55 Comments
- mycutepetpics, on 11/30/2008, -13/+26I was so outraged by their blatant lies that I wrote them a letter demanding a retraction & an apology. But before I sent it I decided that maybe we should first contact every competitor of MSNBC's and every other media organization in the Country! For any Media organization to falsely claim personal opinions as facts in attempts to mislead the American People, should be considered a criminal offense!
So please e-mail every newspaper, TV news stations and media networks, to help expose these unbelievable liars for who they really are! Please also share any & all media contacts you have, to the others in here that may not have them.
Dear Pete Williams & MSNBC,
Your following supposed factual statement is a complete fabrication and very misleading;
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/11/26/ ...
"Then, on Oct. 31st, the director of Hawaii's Department of Health issued a statement, proclaiming that he had personally seen and verified that the state has "Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record," which shows that he was born there."
This article is absurd and a complete fabrication and you know it! You need to write a front page retraction story & an apology immediately before I contact every media station In this country and show each of them how you & MSNBC are completely writing & publishing articles, based rather on personal opinions then actual facts. We all know that you & MSNBC are very pro-Obama but this is really pushing it! You are a very respected media corporation who's stories are supposed to be based on facts, rather then those of personal opinions.
Here is exactly what was originally stated from the director of health in Hawaii:
"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures. No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii," Fukino said.
She never stated that Obama was born in Hawaii! The reason why?! Under Hawaii law a child less then 1 years old born outside of the USA is still allowed to obtain a birth certificate aka a Certificate of Live Birth! That does not make the child a NATURALIZED CITIZEN or like you falsly stated "Which shows that he was born there".
Here is the actual law:
Hawaii Revised Statute 338-17.8 allows registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born outside of Hawaii to parents who, for a year preceding the child's birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence. The parents would be issued a Certification of Live Birth. This is not proof of where the child was born. It only proves that the parents claimed Hawaii as their main place of residence for the prior year.
You could also mention the following law since you neglected to be completely honest in your original article.
British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth. Which Obama admits on his own website to be!
A natural born citizen, would not be a citizen of any other nation than the United States. That is what "natural born" means. By nature, the child, would be only a US citizen, because both of his parents were US citizens, and NO OTHER NATION, can by law claim him to be under their jurisdiction, at the moment of his birth. That was not the case with Obama. He was, by law, a Citizen of the United Kingdom, the moment he was born, and then, by law, he became a citizen of Kenya on Dec. 12, 1963.
They also never released the actual Birth Certificate which you also falsely stated. They did however provide a scan of a Certificate of live birth, which also has been suggested to be forgery, if not already proved.
Please take some time and take a look at the compelling evidence by Ron Polarik, PHD here;
It will take a few minutes to load because of the amount of images of the Certificate of Live Birth.
http://polarik.blogtownhall.com/2008/11/22/obamas_ ...
You don't have to add the previous statement to you retraction story but I am just providing it so you can finally see, the level of deceit and evidence of the biggest conspiracy America has ever seen.
It would only be fair that this story be reprinted on MSNBC'S front page, to give it the same attention your article with your false statements originally received. I await your decision before I contact every media network in this country. The readers of MSNBC deserve the truth and nothing but the truth!!!!!
Thank you very much and God Bless. - Dimensio, on 11/30/2008, -6/+16"Hawaii Revised Statute 338-17.8 allows registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born outside of Hawaii to parents who, for a year preceding the child's birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence. The parents would be issued a Certification of Live Birth. This is not proof of where the child was born. It only proves that the parents claimed Hawaii as their main place of residence for the prior year."
Would this Certification of Live Birth state that the foreign-born child was actually born on the island of Ohau and in the city of Honolulu, as Mr. Obama's certification states?
"A natural born citizen, would not be a citizen of any other nation than the United States. That is what "natural born" means. By nature, the child, would be only a US citizen, because both of his parents were US citizens, and NO OTHER NATION, can by law claim him to be under their jurisdiction, at the moment of his birth. That was not the case with Obama. He was, by law, a Citizen of the United Kingdom, the moment he was born, and then, by law, he became a citizen of Kenya on Dec. 12, 1963."
I have yet to hear, in spite of repeated inquiries, of any Constitutional provision, Federal statute or court precedent that declares that an child born within the United States could not be a "natural born" United States citizen as a result of the citizenship status of one of the child's parents. Your assertion has no basis in any established law. - lazerus9, on 11/30/2008, -6/+15This is a good summary by Tarpley on the most dangerous aspect of a Obama presidency...........his followers!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0QDYWCxcmg&feature ... - inactive, on 11/30/2008, -9/+17The state of Florida has a statute provision for challenging the “certification of election or nomination of any person to office…”.
Florida Election statutes
Title IX
102.168 Contest of election.–
“(1) Except as provided in s. 102.171, the certification of election or nomination of any person to office, or of the result on any question submitted by referendum, may be contested in the circuit court by any unsuccessful candidate for such office or nomination thereto or by any elector qualified to vote in the election related to such candidacy, or by any taxpayer, respectively.
(2) Such contestant shall file a complaint, together with the fees prescribed in chapter 28, with the clerk of the circuit court within 10 days after midnight of the date the last board responsible for certifying the results officially certifies the results of the election being contested.
(3) The complaint shall set forth the grounds on which the contestant intends to establish his or her right to such office or set aside the result of the election on a submitted referendum. The grounds for contesting an election under this section are:”
“(b) Ineligibility of the successful candidate for the nomination or office in dispute.”
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_ ...
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-recor ...
Under Hawaiian law, it is possible (both legally and illegally) for a person to have been born out of state, yet have a birth certificate on file in the Department of Health.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/why_the_bar ... - Hortnon, on 11/30/2008, -6/+12I don't believe Dimensio's question is answered in that article anywhere.
- BuddyOne, on 12/01/2008, -10/+16I'd rather we had a stupid President, than a President who thought we were all stupid.
- inactive, on 11/30/2008, -12/+18Even our black friends (we are white) believe Obama was born in Kenya, but say they were told that it was OK for him to be president. These are the lies they were told.
Obama was never vetted by the NBC, CBS, MSNBC and ABC media, who vetted every other candidate for any office, including Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin to the level of disgust. The reason they didn't let the public know about Obama; they didn't want to. This answers many questions that we now see, including rage coming from the left regarding Obama's claim to take 401k money from the citizens because the government thinks it's their money. If people watched something else beside the left media they would have know his stance on the 401k issue. But now are blaming the 401k issue on the Republicans????
Why don't we know who paid for Obama's college education? Why is there no transcripts of his grades? He was supposed to be poor and broke. Why did he put a fake selective service certificate on line? Why did he put a fake birth certificate on line? Why do some people choose not to believe his grandmother who says she was at Obama's birth in Kenya? Why was Obama's grandmother silenced after she made this remark? How did Obama fly into Pakistan on a US passport when the US citizens were not allowed to fly there?
Check out this new video: http://www.obamacrimes.com/
Also taken from the Israel national news: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Message.as ...
"Obama was born on August 4, 1961, at the Kapiolani Medical Center.
and here it says:
Barack Obama was born at the Queen's Medical Center on 4 August 1961.
So which hospital was it, or was he really born in Kenya? And why is this simple matter so confusing and disturbing? Do the search your self and plug in these key words:
Obama born Queen's Medical Center and then Obama born Kapiolani Medical Center in a Google search. You will see he is reported to be born in two diferent hospitals. A miracle! Maybe he IS the Messiah (grin).
What's so hard about knowing something so simple as which hospital or country someone was born in? And if it is simple, then why doesn't Barack Hussein Obama just present the court with his original birth certificate to be analysed and proven? The onus of proof is on him, not the American public of which he wants their trust in him to be their leader.
So, who is lying? Barack? His grandmother? His sister? Someone is." - Dimensio, on 12/01/2008, -2/+8" I cannot believe I am going to actually answer that after all the months of people being called sore losers, retards, demented, naive and claiming they were tin foil hats for stating Obama was really born a kenyan Citizen"
The nation of Kenya did not exist at the time of Mr. Obama's birth. It is therefore impossible for him to have been "born" a citizen of that nation. He only became a citizen of that nation when the nation came to exist after securing independence from the United Kingdom. I am unaware that Mr. Obama at any time made any denial of having been a Kenyan citizen as a result of this independence.
" Didn't Fightthesmears and Factcheck debunk that alleged myth stating something along the lines, that these people were lying or full of *****?!!"
I am unaware of any such alleged "debunking". If you have a reference to such an occurrence, I would like to see it. - Dimensio, on 12/01/2008, -3/+9"How can we ever trust a man who lied through his teeth from the start?!!!"
To what specific lie or lies are you referring? - Dimensio, on 12/01/2008, -2/+8"I have seen many of your comments before and I know you are a very pro Obama person and that's more then fine with me."
Your assessment is incorrect. I am not "pro Obama". I cannot support Mr. Obama due to his irresponsible and unreasonable position regarding gun control. It would appear as though you have derived a conclusion that has no basis in reality; this suggests that you are not using rational reasoning.
" When I want answers or an explanation on something, I search for it myself and study all that I can."
A specific assertion has been repeated that a child born outside of the United States may be issued a state-certified document claiming that the child was born in the city of Honolulu. It is not unreasonable for me to request documentation in support of such a claim, and it is both unreasonable and dishonest to suggest that I research evidence in support of this claim; if the claim is in fact false, it can later be claimed that my inability to uncover evidence (as evidence will never be found if the claim is false) is actually a result of my bias against the claim. For this reason, the burden of proof falls to those making the claim to provide evidenciary support for the claim.
"After a lot, I mean a lot of research and chats with voters from all parties, I definitely see some issues with Obama's citizenship and Birth certificate. I still can't say for sure what is or isn't but there is definitely a lot more to the story that they aren't sharing. So please read and study if you can the information at the following link. So far it is the most intense research of Obama's Birth certificate."
Nothing that you have referenced demonstrates that the state of Hawaii has or ever has issued a state-certified document asserting the fact of birth within the city of Honolulu to a child who was born outside of the country. If no evidence exists in support of the claim, then it is irresponsible and dishonest to continue making the claim. - Dimensio, on 12/01/2008, -2/+8"Why must you all wait for me to post the laws on this issue, when any of you can easily Google it for yourselves?! "
You have made or repeated the specific assertions. It is dishonest and unreasonable for you to shift the burden of proof by demanding that others research the factual validity of the claim for you.
Either Mr. Obama has recieved a state-certified document attesting to the fact of his birth in the city of Honolulu, or Mr. Obama has committed an act of forgery, which is a felony offense. If the document is not a forgery -- and no criminal investigation has been undertaken by any law enforcement agency in spite of what would be clear evidence of such a crime if it were the case -- then either Mr. Obama was born in the city of Honolulu or the state of Hawaii at some time in the past allowed for the registration of births that occurred outside of the country of the United States of America as though they had actually occurred in the city of Honolulu. As this appears to be your specific assertion, it is your responsibility to provide evidence in support of such a legal provision having been in place. It is not my responsibility to research the extent of Hawaiian law on this matter, and it is dishonest for you to suggest that this research is my responsibility.
I am curious as to why no one has actually provided any references in response to my question. Typically my inquiry is either ignored entirely, or respondants attempt to dishonestly shift the burden of proof. - Hortnon, on 12/01/2008, -5/+10The only fact that Dimensio claims is that the birth certificate states certain things.
So, instead of rephrasing the question I will instead copy/paste Dimensio's in the hopes that you attempt to answer it this time:
"I have yet to hear, in spite of repeated inquiries, of any Constitutional provision, Federal statute or court precedent that declares that an child born within the United States could not be a "natural born" United States citizen as a result of the citizenship status of one of the child's parents. Your assertion has no basis in any established law." - Hortnon, on 12/01/2008, -4/+9@mycutepetpics
Being a Kenyan citizen does not mean he was not a natural-born American
@ivanvivian
That's quite a rant you have there... - inactive, on 11/30/2008, -6/+11-citation needed-
- inactive, on 12/01/2008, -7/+11He was selected not elected !
- Dimensio, on 12/01/2008, -4/+8"The Coast Provincial General Hospital at Mombasa in Kenya at 7:24 PM on August 4Th 1961 is the birthplace and time for "0"."
I believe that you have failed to provide evidence in support of this claim.
"Not a word from him even though he knows his silence is a tacit admission that he was born in the Coast Provincial General Hospital at Mombasa in Kenya at 7:24 PM on August 4Th 1961."
I do not believe that you are familiar with the laws of formal logic. Mr. Obama not responding to an unsubstantiated assertion does not constitute "tacit admission" of the fact of that assertion. - Hortnon, on 12/01/2008, -4/+8"The Coast Provincial General Hospital at Mombasa in Kenya at 7:24 PM on August 4Th 1961 is the birthplace and time for "0"."
Prove it - Dimensio, on 12/01/2008, -2/+6"You truly believe that there is no rational reasoning for me or anyone to think you are pro Obama, when you have seemed to visit even more posts then then even I have, concerning Obama's birth certificate in attempts to debunk as many people as possible who are just seeking to know the truth?"
It would appear as though you have established a false dichotomy. Evidently you have not considered that it is possible for an individual, such as myself, to oppose policy positions of Mr. Obama that are unreasonable and that defy the United States Constitution while simultaneously not promoting assertions regarding his Constitutional qualification to hold the office of the President of the United States that are dubious at best, demonstrably wrong at worst, and that often contradict one another.
My opposition to Mr. Obama's policy positions is based upon rationality and reason. It does not logically follow that I will appeal to irrational, unsubstantiated assertions with no demonstrated basis in fact as a further method of opposition.
" Anybody who I have noticed who stated a fact, law, case or argument has never been good enough for you and you wind up asking another question immediately after."
This is because no one has actually referenced any law or case, and all asserted "facts" made in support of the position that Mr. Obama is not a "natural-born" United States citizen has yet to be substantiated.
" You seem to be the irrational one who is really on a mission rather then to know the truth. You should try spending more time listening to people and discussing things with them, then attempting to belittle anyone who questions his birth or provides a comment. That is not going to help our country or make the questions disappear. We have to be united as a people asap before all hell possibly breaks out in the event our economy completely crumbles. "
Your above statements are not logically equivalent to a demonstration that any previous claims that you have made have any basis in law.
"I don't want to argue with you or anyone, i just want to always know the whole truth and that something that was completely missing for this campaign."
You have yet to demonstrate that the "whole truth" has not already been established.
" Why didn't Obama simply announce from the beginning that he was at one time a citizen of Kenya, instead of waiting for someone to find out, to finally come forward with his latest omission?!"
At what time did Mr. Obama "come forward" with the claim? I was unaware that it had ever been a secret that Mr. Obama was, until his twenty-first birthday, a citizen of Kenya as a consequence of the citizenship laws of the United Kingdom, and then later of Kenya, at the time of his birth and through his childhood.
" You can understand the severity of that issue and how wrong that was, for him to do. When he was questioned about his Naturalization and citizenship, he should of stated the whole truth from the beginning. Don't you agree? "
What statements did he make that were not true, and when were these untrue statements made? Please cite specific dates.
"Also this post was originally about how MSNBC made false statements in their article and that doesn't seem to matter to to anyone that argues in Obama's defense."
The claims of "false statements" made by "Bigone5555J" -- who has repeated false and dubious claims in the past -- are entirely unsubstantiated. "Bigone5555J" is asserting that a Hawaii Certification of Live Birth is insufficient as a demonstration of the fact of birth in the state. He references the same assertion for which I have repeatedly requested substantiation, that a Hawaiian "Certification of Live Birth" may be issued to an infant born out of the country that lists the infant's city of birth is Honolulu. Without a demonstration that such a certification, with that specific data, can actually be issued by the state, "Bigone5555J"'s assertion is unsubstantiated. It is not enough that the state may issue a "Certification of Live Birth" to an infant born outside of the country, it must also be demonstrated that such a certification will list the "city or town of birth" as "Honolulu" even though the child was not born in that city.
Mr. "Bigone5555J" also claims that an individual born to a subject of the United Kingdom would not be a "natural born" citizen of the United States even if born within the boundaries of the United States of America to parents who are both United States Citizens. Mr. "Bigone5555J"'s assertion has no basis in any established legal precedent. Mr. "Bigone5555J" cites no Constitutional provision, federal statute or court precedent that supports his assertion, and in fact the election of President Andrew Jackson -- whose parents were both Irish citizens at the time of his birth -- would suggest that Mr. Bigone5555J's assertion is entirely false.
" But not one of you agrees that that is in anyway wrong,"
You have demonstrated no wrongdoing by Mr. Obama regarding the status of his United States citizenship.
" you rather come in here and fight the same fight, then care about the bigger picture. If media is making false statement about anything, I would hope that would bother us all. Apparently it doesn't and that's disturbing because the news is supposed to be based on facts and not on opinions. "
Mr. "Bigone5555J"'s assertions of "false statements" are themselves based upon unsubstantiated claims. They cannot be considered reliable until fundamental implied claims are demonstrated as fact.
"You first question was this:
"Would this Certification of Live Birth state that the foreign-born child was actually born on the island of Ohau and in the city of Honolulu, as Mr. Obama's certification states?" Right?
I answered with the following because a document not vouched by anyone with any authority( Judge, experts, lawyer etc....) cannot be deemed a valid document until such an authority vouches, that the document stating Obama was born in hawaii is not a forgery."
If the document made available for public viewing is a forgery, then the image itself constitutes evidence of this forgery. As a number of officials from the Hawaii Department of Health would be in a position to determine that no document matching the details of the one presented by Mr. Obama's campaign, yet no investigation of any actual criminal act has been undertaken, assertions of forgery are dubious.
" Hawaii has never stated that Obama was born in Hawaii anywhere. You are also basing your supposed silver bullet off of Factcheck's post and that cannot be deemed as a credible source or experts in any fields pertaining to certifying documents. There so called evidence/post would be thrown out of court due to the authors having no expertise whatsoever. "
I am certain, then, that you have counter-evidence that would be admissible in court. Please provide it.
"Anyway here was my original response:
"He is stating that Obama has Provided a valid certification stating that states Obama was born in Hawaii. He is stating that comment as a fact, when it has never been officially reviewed by any experts, courts, judges( as McCain's was) or officials. Even the chair of the Democratic party, Carol Flower, admitted that all candidates qualify for the office they are running for, without ever seeing the actual documents. 3 months later her excuse is based on a PRESS CONFERENCE [not a court of law] where Hawaii officials never actually verified he was born in Hawaii - they only stated they have his original birth certificate "on file," and refused to answer if the original certificate of live birth was a Kenyan one or a Hawaiian one. Which is perfectly legal under Hawaii law.""
When was Ms. Flower asked whether Mr. Obama's birth certificate on file is a Kenyan certificate?
"Your second original question was......
"I have yet to hear, in spite of repeated inquiries, of any Constitutional provision, Federal statute or court precedent that declares that an child born within the United States could not be a "natural born" United States citizen as a result of the citizenship status of one of the child's parents. Your assertion has no basis in any established law."
Which I kindly answered with a few quotes and the link so you can read the laws in it's entirety for yourself because the article would take up too many comments."
The Constitution, sans the Amendments, is not a long document. Quoting a small excerpt from the document that explicitly excludes children born to foreign nationals would not "take up too many comments". Similarly, a reference to a Federal statute by number (with a small excerpt of the relevant text) or a reference to a specific court case (with a small excerpt of the relevant text from the ruling) would also take up very little comment space.
If you cannot cite a specific Constitutional provision, Federal statute or court ruling that corroborates the oft-repeated claim that a child born inside the United States to at least one parent who is not a United States citizen is not a "natural born" United States citizen, then the assertion has no demonstrated basis in fact.
" That wasn't too much to ask for in my opinion, since I am not the one suing Obama or legally questioning him."
You are, however, repeating the assertions of those who are filing challenges against Mr. Obama. It is therefore not unreasonable to suggest that you be able to provide justification for the assertions that you have repeated.
" You continue to ask the people questioning his citizenship to provide proof, quotes and laws to back up their claims but you have to understand something. We are not the lawyers, electors, Ayers, Berg, Donofrio etc... who are bring this to court, so you should be directing many of your questions to them, since you are asking for every little detail and full explanations of each law."
If you are willing to repeat the assertions of Mr. Ayers, Mr. Berg and Mr. Donofrio as though they are fact, then you should be able to provide evidence showing that the assertions that you have repeated are factual.
" We are not all lawyers and cannot always provide you with every specific meaning for each law, you wish to be explained to you or shown evidence of."
This does not constitute a logically equivalent substitute to an actual reference of fact that substantiates the claims that you have made or that you have repeated.
" I have provided part of the law from the last question you originally asked with a link so you can get a full grasp on it."
Nothing that you have referenced substantiates the claim of Mr. Donofrio that a child born to at least one parent who is not a United States citizen is not a "natural born" citizen in spite of being born within the boundaries of the United States of America.
" Since it's not the easiest law to understand and it's is much easier from you to hear a lawyer explaining such rather then myself or any other regular citizen."
Declaring that a legal position is "not the easiest law to understand" is not logically equivalent to providing an actual legal citation that supports your claim. It should not be difficult to reference a Constitutional provision, Federal statute or court precedent that declares, in exact or similar form, that "No child born to at least one parent who is not a citizen of the United States of America shall be considered a natural-born citizen of the United States of America under any circumstances", if any such law exists.
"So I answered your original question the best I could and provided you with the link to read the law in it's entirety."
Your response to my initial inquiry does not, in any way, provide evidence in support of the position that you advocate.
" How your last statement states you are being ignored in anyway is not factual. I have answered both of your original questions and provided the link for you to a full and much clearer explanation to the laws. "
You have referenced no actual legal provision, and you have provided no reference to any Hawaiian law that would allow for the issuance of a Certification of Live Birth that states a child's city of birth to be Honolulu.
"So why do you make statements like you are completely being ignored, when you are in fact be payed more attention then many others on the subject?"
As I have noted, in spite of your verbose reply, you have failed to provide any actual evidence that substantiates the positions that you advocate.
"So here is your 3rd question that I never ignored, since you just asked it now about the statue/law in question. Which was provided in the original message with some explanation. Someone posted a much broader and clearer explanation of the law from Hawaii and I will attempt find it for you later today when i wake up. I also attached Hawaii's Government's website link so you can see the law for yourself.
"CHAPTER 338
VITAL STATISTICS
Part I. State Public Health Statistics Act
338-17.7Establishment of new certificates of birth, when
338-17.8 Certificates for children born out of State
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2006/Vol06_Ch0321 ..."
What, in any of those statutes, allows for the issuance of a Certification of Live Birth that declares, on the certificate, that a child who was born outside of the United States of America to have been born in Honolulu, even though the child was not born there?
"I also attached the best - Dimensio, on 12/01/2008, -2/+6@ivanivan
So, are you able to reference a specific lie? - inactive, on 12/01/2008, -2/+5You must have trouble reading,
just show the form, end of story !
Then maybe trust in "yes we can change"
might have some validity... - NoLibertarians, on 12/01/2008, -7/+10The man qualified for all 50 state ballots..There really is no "Issue"
- rhealy, on 11/30/2008, -9/+12You would think so, but they didn't. Nobody ever verified Obama's eligibility to run for President, not even the DNC.
- ivanvivian, on 12/02/2008, -0/+3OK 'demensio', in your responses here, you confirm a sense that you really wanted people to give substance to their assertions. This did not necessarily mean that you were for the opposition. Just requiring people to be specific.
We are all, at some point going to have to answer for our words. Heeding 'demensio' now and making the effort to substantiate every assertion made, will be equipping us for the real battle which is on the horizon: Very imminent.
Hence, for this 'equipping', I thank 'demensio' for his diligence in encouraging us to be more precise.
As to where has Bo lied, herewith URLs:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp
http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/fashion-shows/
Anyway, to take 'demensio' seriously, let us ensure that we substantiate every assertion, doing our best to be able to defend our rejection of BO with hard and fast evidence.
I know we are up against the most terrible odds. The MSM [Mass Media Mongrels] are in BO's camp, with politicians, judges, big business etc.. While the Internet is deemed to be unreliable and bloggers mocked by the establishment. Yet, we can prove we have more integrity. Especially if we will heed 'demensio's' challenges to provide the evidence.
So thanks again 'demensio' for, at least establishing something that will help us to be better prepared. - ZepHed69, on 11/30/2008, -12/+15I have been following this avidly for a while.
Here is the real question: Why will Obama not produce proper documentation? Are you above the American people's wishes, Mr. De Facto President Elect?
120,000 + people have signed the petition. BO, are you going to willfully ignore them? - Dimensio, on 12/01/2008, -5/+8Do you have any argument that has a rational basis in established legal practice?
- felman87, on 12/01/2008, -5/+7oooooo, you're right. 120K?! Jeebuz that's a lot of people. Better bow to their whims cause that be a big numbah.
- mycutepetpics, on 12/01/2008, -11/+13And if any pro obama supporter was really taking a open minded look into things, they would of noticed that Obama's website and Factcheck just added the quote below basically admitting that Barrack Obama was a citizen of Kenya until the age of 21. So for all of you that swore he was telling all of us the complete truth and everyone who questioned it wears tinfoil hats, here is the evidence he was lying to all of us all along. How can you trust a man that has been pulling of one of the biggest conspiracies, in the history of our country?!!
Obama's Fight the Smears website, quoting FactCheck.Org, has made a bombshell admission...Barack Obama was once a citizen of Kenya. You read that right, Obama had Kenyan citizenship until 1982. Here is the startling admission published in Fight the Smears (emphasis mine):
"?When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom?s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.?s children.
Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4, 1982.?"
How can we ever trust a man who lied through his teeth from the start?!!! What lies don't we know about and how damaging our those to him and our country? Remember if any bombshells come out about our president it will destroy or country and the trust of the people. - mindpuzzle, on 11/30/2008, -16/+18Dont you think they would have checked the birth certificate 2yrs ago when he decided to run for president?
Its over move on - mycutepetpics, on 11/30/2008, -9/+11Actually the secretary of state just acknowledged that her verification of Obama's citizenship came from a press conference and not from actual verification such as a court or even viewing the document. How crazy is that?! People just want the truth and they deserve it! McCain was asked to provide all his documents, why can't Obama do the same, especially since the number of lawsuits?!
I hope we would all want to know the truth just to move past it.
1) South Carolina: RESPONSE FROM SECRETARY OF STATE SOUTH CAROLINA: PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO PAGE 2 IN WHICH THE CHAIR OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF SOUTH CAROLINA [CAROL FOWLER] UNEQUIVOCALLY STATES THE CANDIDATES ALL QUALIFY FOR THE OFFICE IN WHICH THEY ARE RUNNING WHEN SHE'S NEVER SEEN OBAMA'S REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE.
2) Connecticut: RESPONSE FROM SECRETARY OF STATE OF Connecticut, BIG PROBLEMS WITH THIS FOR HER. He was supposed to be vetted BEFORE he ran for office - 3 months later her excuse is based on a PRESS CONFERENCE [not a court of law] where Hawaii officials never actually verified he was born in Hawaii - they only stated they have his original birth certificate "on file," and refused to answer if the original certificate of live birth was a Kenyan one or a Hawaiian one.
http://moniquemonicat.wordpress.com/secretary-of-s ... - Hortnon, on 12/01/2008, -4/+6And what is the relevance of this law?
- Hortnon, on 12/01/2008, -4/+6That's almost .04%!
- imacommi, on 12/03/2008, -0/+1Thank you for being a good citizen, we should all be more like you!
- Hortnon, on 12/01/2008, -5/+6No one has yet proven that his citizenship wasn't verified by any of the relevant groups - RNC, DNC, election commissions, etc
- inactive, on 12/01/2008, -4/+5rhealy- I think it is a bit amusing that all they have left is trust in the DNC.This whole matter would be easy to clear up if not for the fact he refuses to deal with it. He seems to think that if he leaves it alone it will go away.
A real leader would have stepped up and answered the questions in a professional manner and be done with it.
"0" has yet to come out and verify that the document posted on the web is his, or came from his files, or represents the facts surrounding his birth.
It would be easy to move on if "0" answered the qualification question. It isn't like the qualification requirements were a secret. - smacksaw, on 12/01/2008, -6/+7Wow...obfuscation. It's like sleight of hand. You can post all of these laws, but you're ignoring the main point WHICH IS THAT HIS CERTIFICATE SAYS HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII.
Let me give you an example. I am an American. Two of my kids were born in Canada. Guess what I had to do? I had to register them. It's called a Report Of Birth Abroad. At some point, kids need a certificate of live birth, something to register them officially.
Here's where you don't have one. Let's say your child is born at home. You go to the consulate and register the birth abroad. You are a Washington State resident, such as myself. The kid gets a birth certificate from Washington. Later, my Canadian wife can get citizenship in Canada for the kids since it's bestowed by the mother.
All of that is IRRELEVANT because the birth certificate says he was born IN HOSPITAL IN HAWAII. Get it? My two youngest have birth certificates from the hospitals they were born in, and then vital statistics sent us official ones that say it's "Vancouver, BC"...
You people are grasping at straws. If the birth certificate on file says he was born at a hospital in Hawaii you're going to have to deal with it. You can't change the subject to other laws that don't apply.
May God have mercy upon your wretched, trickster souls.
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..................................., - ThsGuyRightHere, on 12/02/2008, -1/+2"The Coast Provincial General Hospital at Mombasa in Kenya at 7:24 PM on August 4Th 1961 is the birthplace and time for "0".
I have as much evidence of that as anyone has he was born anywhere else."
Really, let's see it then. Not just a document certified by the appropriate authorities though. I want to see the original long form birth certificate complete with a Kenyan doctor's signature. After all that's what you're asking for isn't it? - dbs1221, on 12/02/2008, -3/+4@mycutepics
You say you did a lot of research, apparently you never bothered checking the US Code or the State Dept regarding the effect of Obama's citizenship, or even wikipedia. Or even the WorldNetDaily
"However, FactChecker.org says it obtained Obama's actual birth certificate and that the document was indeed real. The site discredited some of the claims of Internet bloggers, such as that the certificate as viewed in a scanned copy released by Obama's campaign lacked a raised seal. FactChecker.org also established that many of the alleged flaws in the document noted by bloggers were caused by the scanning of the document.
A separate WND investigation into Obama's birth certificate utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren't originally there."
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.vie ...
The Certificate referenced says
city, town or location of birth Honolulu
Island of Birth Oahu
County of Birth Honolulu
The Director of Health for the state actually did both say in a press release the certificate is on file and also that it is valid
""This has gotten ridiculous," state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. "There are plenty of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes, energy."
So, in what likely will be a vain attempt to halt the inquiries, Fukino yesterday issued a statement saying that she and the registrar of vital statistics personally inspected Obama's birth certificate and found it to be valid... Fukino issued her statement to try to stomp out persistent rumors that Obama was not born in Honolulu — and is therefore not a U.S. citizen and thus ineligible to run for president."
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081101 ...
Further all other nationalities, passport use, school enrollments are irrelevant. Next time you do a lot, I mean a lot of research, try remembering to check the courts, US Code, and State Department, (reading the documents that don't just opine but actually have standing in court is useful) or even Wikipedia.
Here we go again...
Obama was Citizen at birth, "The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof; "
(8 U.S.C. § 1401)
"U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship."
The US Dept. Of State
To the best of my knowledge Natural born is never defined in Case law, the constitution or the US code, I presume it means simply that a person is made a citizenship by the condition of there birth or that at the time they were born they were a US Citizen, both are true of Obama.
Further there is additional Case law ruling that exercising the rights of one citizenship, using a passport (as some have alleged) or going to school in Indonesia, don't alone mean the other citizenship is renounced.
"The concept of dual citizenship recognizes that a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both. [343 U.S. 717, 724] The mere fact that he asserts the rights of one citizenship does not without more mean that he renounces the other."
(KAWAKITA v. UNITED STATES, 343 U.S. 717 (1952) )
"A person born in Hawaii on or after August 12, 1898, and before April 30, 1900, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900. A person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900, is a citizen of the United States at birth. A person who was a citizen of the Republic of Hawaii on August 12, 1898, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900. "
(8 U.S.C § 1405) - fiatjustitia, on 11/30/2008, -15/+16First off, a lawsuit filed to question Obama's citizenship was already dismissed by a federal judge:
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20081025_Jud ...
And there was a small, but very important bit of information from The Honolulu Advertiser on Aug. 13th, 1961, reporting a birth of Mr. and Mrs. Barack Obama's newborn son, whose birth occurred on Aug. 4th:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertific ... (scrool down the page, you'll see it)
If you want people to start taking you seriously again, please attack him on the issues and/or the views that he holds politically. If you don't like him, that's fine, report on how you think he's not going to do a good job, or give us arguments and information to back up what you're saying, but this claim that he's not a natural born citizen will get attention for a time, it will get show down *again*, and everyone will move on to discussing more important matters. - inactive, on 11/30/2008, -10/+10 [§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0 ... - inactive, on 12/01/2008, -8/+8Given your demonstration of your stupidity, we must have a brain dead president.
- normlsparky, on 12/01/2008, -11/+11Buried. Again.
- mycutepetpics, on 12/01/2008, -8/+7@Nortnon
Dimensio's question/statement wasn't answered anywhere in that article???
Here was the first part of Dimensio's comment right?
"Would this Certification of Live Birth state that the foreign-born child was actually born on the island of Ohau and in the city of Honolulu, as Mr. Obama's certification states?"
He is stating that Obama has Provided a valid certification stating that states Obama was born in Hawaii. He is stating that comment as a fact, when it has never been officially reviewed by any experts, courts, judges( as McCain's was) or officials. Even the chair of the Democratic party, Carol Flower, admitted that all candidates qualify for the office they are running for, without ever seeing the actual documents. 3 months later her excuse is based on a PRESS CONFERENCE [not a court of law] where Hawaii officials never actually verified he was born in Hawaii - they only stated they have his original birth certificate "on file," and refused to answer if the original certificate of live birth was a Kenyan one or a Hawaiian one. Which is perfectly legal under Hawaii law.
And if you or anyone was really taking a open minded look into things, you would of noticed that Obama's website and Factcheck just added the quote below basically admitting that Barrack Obama was a citizen of Kenya until the age of 21. So for all of you that swore he was telling all of us the complete truth and everyone who questioned it wears tinfoil hats, here is the evidence he was lying to all of us all along. How can you trust a man that has been pulling of one of the biggest conspiracies, in the history of our country?!!
Obama's Fight the Smears website, quoting FactCheck.Org, has made a bombshell admission...Barack Obama was once a citizen of Kenya. You read that right, Obama had Kenyan citizenship until 1982. Here is the startling admission published in Fight the Smears (emphasis mine):
"?When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom?s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.?s children.
Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4, 1982.?"
I was typing the reply to the 2nd statement but after that bombshell I feel that nothing else is needed to be said. We all just wanted the truth and nobody deserved the treatment received for just asking for the truth. When the truth is out and Obama's site have admitted that he was once a Kenyan citizen. He lied to us all from the start and he has also showed lately how much he is willing to do to get into the President's office, by any means necessary. He got caught on this lie but how many other lies do you think, we may never know about? - mycutepetpics, on 12/01/2008, -5/+4Why must you all wait for me to post the laws on this issue, when any of you can easily Google it for yourselves?! I don't mind when I have the time but I cannot always be here. When I want answers or an explanation on something, I search for it myself and study all that I can. I'm not trying to be rude but these debates/arguments would go a lot better if both sides were researching all that they could and not waiting for someone to do the work for them. .
The post where the quotes below come from was much too long to post withing Digg's comment length. So I was left with either posting 15-20 long comments or several quotes and the link, so you can read the entire post. There are also many references in the post and other links in the pursuit of more knowledge on the issue in question. The link to the original post is at the bottom.
I believe her last remark about either "the justices can follow the law and risk calumny and civil disorder, or ignore the plain common law reading of the Constitution and risk usurpation and civil disorder", hits the nail on the coffin( In a sad way.). It's a lose lose situation for all of us either way this goes at this point. So I have to agree with her and assume that Donofrio's case will most likely not be heard in efforts to cause the least amount or collateral damage.
My biggest hope is that the left and the right can come together and at least try to understand each others opinions, suggestions, ideas etc... without cursing them out and claiming that they wear tin foil hats, the next time questions are raised from either side. We will never get anywhere by such childish behavior, name calling, labeling and by calling people racist just because they have different opinions
One of the most beautiful things about living in America, is freedom of speech and nobody should ever be attacked over it. That's just my opinion.
The one thing that still really bothers me and should bother all citizens, is that Obama knowingly lied about his Kenyan citizenship from day 1. They never tried to admit anything until the arguers of the case, stated facts that proved he was a citizen of Kenya. It's always better to be honest from the get go, especially when it concerns such a potentially devastating issue.
I pasted just a few paragraphs of the article below and I would definitely suggest reading it for it's entirety, if you want to learn everything the quotes are based on and which laws they refer to.
"Anyone else inter alia, and by definition, though they be born a Citizen under the XIVth Amendment but of parents of differing allegiance, is not and cannot be a natural-born citizen."
"Under USC Title 8, 1448, Section 337 a person who is to be naturalized as a citizen, must take the Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America and renounce allegiance and fidelity to any foreign state, etc. A person can not swear allegiance to the USA and owe allegiance to any political entity other than the USA. Yet under the Constitution and the Common Law a naturalized citizen may not hold the Offices of POTUS and VPOTUS by virtue of defect of allegiance, in that their allegiance is not held by simple birth, and due to “the appearance of Foreign Allegiance”."
'Whether you use Article II with Jay’s letter, Blackstone, Swayne, etc and the Law of 1790 to show intention, which is what I believe you should do, or add the XIVth Amendment with the Act of 1866 as Madison does, you get the same result, BHO II is not a natural-born citizen. Neither is Governor Richardson, neither was Governor George Romney and it is possible that Senator McCain isn’t either."
"Having said all of this, and granting that Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas and Kennedy are all either Federalists, or inclined towards the Federalist position, it is my belief that Donofrio’s case will probably not be heard because the whole issue is, as one of my legal friends in England called it “a poisoned chalice”. The Justices can follow the Law and risk calumny and civil disorder, or ignore the plain Common Law reading of the Constitution and risk usurpation and civil disorder."
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/11/28/natura ... - inactive, on 12/02/2008, -4/+3The Coast Provincial General Hospital at Mombasa in Kenya at 7:24 PM on August 4Th 1961 is the birthplace and time for "0".
I have as much evidence of that as anyone has he was born anywhere else.
In fact we are looking at the first candidate in our history who has refused to provide the basic information such as what hospital he was born in and who the doctor was.
We know where all of the presidents so far were born.
The lawsuit in California which makes the lawful request for the information from qualified electors and a qualified opponent on the ballot has still yet to be answered by "0".
Seventeen lawsuits including a Supreme Court review and still "0" refuses to provide us with anything.
Not once has "0" said that the certificate posted on the we was his, came from his files or accurately depicts the circumstances of his birth.
If he won't even attest to the authenticity of that document, why should anyone believe it is his? - inactive, on 12/01/2008, -8/+6Knock off the legal monkey bla, bla, bla bull ***** !!
He expects "we the people" to just hand him the nuclear football,
without giving us the secret code word :
AUTHENTICATED CERTIFIED LONG FORM OF
"NATURAL BORN CITIZENSHIP"
But instead "we the people" are told to gust go off and eat ***** quietly ????? - inactive, on 12/01/2008, -5/+3First off the lawsuits against "0" have not been dismissed. One was, but there are at least a dozen more .
If you think all of them have been dismissed you need to provide about fifteen more links.
Also, when has an ad in a small town paper ever been used as proof?
Lame, very lame - mycutepetpics, on 12/01/2008, -6/+4@Horton
First of all I responded to this comment.
"How can we ever trust a man who lied through his teeth from the start?!!!"
To what specific lie or lies are you referring?
Your response to him lying was....
"Being a Kenyan citizen does not mean he was not a natural-born American"
So it's ok to you that Obama & all his websites lied and misled the American people from the beginning!? And it took someone else to tell the truth for Obama and his sites to finally admit it and that seem to be perfectly ok with you. By moving on to the next subject and completely ignoring what he did, you seem at ease with it, like it's no problem whatsoever and no big deal. That is an irrational belief and quite disturbing. This is our president elect and lying to such a degree to avoid issues to get elected, should raise serious alarms in any sane and rational person. How can we trust any other statements he made referring to his citizenship or trust why he sealed all of his school records. What else is he hiding, would be any rational persons assumptions after such betrayal. But that is not possible for extreme Obama loveres because it seems to heard to take a step back and look at things with a unbiased mindset.
Your love for the man or extreme defense of him has gone to whole new levels.
Let's just not talk about things anymore because their is no sense in it, if one or both of us won't sway on their beliefs or one can't take a step back and look at things with an unbiased view. So let's let SCOTUS sort it out and most likely dismiss it due to lack of standing of the petitioner because regular citizens, like me and you cannot question a President. The question will be most likely be answered properly within the next 3 months once and for all it seems. But I won't even get into that and we will find out then what all the truths are.
So far now let's part ways with our own beliefs and hope our country makes it through the dark times ahead and that our economy bounces back. Arguing and discussing these issues isn't getting us anywhere. -
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