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43 Comments
- freedomjoe, on 03/27/2009, -4/+33more excellent reporting from our friend, Jlepold.
Let's hope when the report comes out next week that prosecution shimmers on the horizon of the near future. Something to dream about.
FTA:
The full declassified version of the report is 200 pages, contains 2,000 footnotes, and will reveal a plethora of new information about the roles played by senior officials in the White House, Defense and Justice Departments and CIA in implementing brutal interrogation policies. The report includes detailed information about secret meetings that took place at the White House where high-level Bush administration official discussed specific interrogation techniques to use against so-called "high value" detainees. - joshstone100, on 03/28/2009, -3/+19How much of the report will be redacted?
Will Obama prosecute the last Administration for torture crimes? Or run coverup. - inactive, on 03/28/2009, -1/+15if he does not prosecute, America will lose all it's gained and certainly will have very little credibility.
- freedomjoe, on 03/27/2009, -4/+14I thought it was up to Holder, not Obama. Isn't it a justice dept issue?
As a constitutional lawyer, I'm pretty sure Obama's horrified by the violations to our constitution. He did, after all, appoint Holder who is known as a strict constitutionalist. the hold up may be political or it may be held up in legal debate (though the term hold up shouldn't be taken too seriously; the new admin has only been in office for two months). After all, both Nixon and Clinton stirred up a constitutional furor over how, if, why, etc prosecution of a president could take place. I hardly think it's a clear cut "pass go" issue, as much as I would like it to be.
Frankly, it outrages me that Clinton was impeached for lying about a blow job and the GOP are trying to obstruct prosecution of Bush at every turn. - beautifulady, on 03/28/2009, -3/+12If there is no prosecution, this serious trend will continue, that of ignoring substantial abuses of power by the executive branch. Bush and Cheney, and their co-horts, should also not be allowed to leave the country until this is all brought out into the open. Unless, of course, they care to go to the Hague.
- jleopold, on 03/28/2009, -0/+8the entire report will be fully declassified. Nothing will be redacted. The Defense Dept. is declassifying now.
As for whether Obama will prosecute? That's unlikely. He will run cover up. - Seminarian, on 03/28/2009, -1/+7Sadly, they probably don't want to leave the country. Other countries would prosecute them if they could get their hands on them. War crimes are illegal everywhere, and other countries actually enforce those laws. Here they appear to be safe.
- jleopold, on 03/27/2009, -2/+8technically it's up to Holder but Obama has been weighing in on the issue.
- beautifulady, on 03/27/2009, -3/+8It would be a miracle if there are any prosecutions. Our president does not seem to be sufficiently offended, horrified or outraged to make it happen.
- MWeather, on 03/28/2009, -1/+6You do know FISA has been around since 1978, right? Bush ignored it, the Democrats restored it. Why do people act as if it's something new? Where has the outrage been in the last 30 years?
- josieg66, on 03/28/2009, -2/+5this was me, I was held in these jails for four months then dumped at Heathrow. I cant get any help from my senator Dick Durbin, or my British MP, Maria Eagle.
what I saw in these jails will stay with me for the rest of my life. I now have PTSD and scream in the street sometimes. I was a bank secretary, who was literally kidnapped and held in jail, and when they realised they had made a mistake, they made me deportable.
Now the British Tax payer has to support me, becuase i literally dont exist in the UK, havent lived here in twenty years. Please read it all at www.josieg6.wordpress.com and email
eaglem@parliament.uk to get her to contact the Foreign office to find out WHY this was done to me, and get me sent home to Chicago.
Binyam Mohammed was surrounded by doctors and lawyers when he got off the plane; yet i cant get any help. If this is our special relationship with America, then the British surely dont need it. Please, get me sent home so I am no longer a burden to the UK taxpayer. If you allow this to happen, they can do it to you, anytime. - WhiteHatTrick, on 03/28/2009, -0/+3Why am I not inclined to take their word for it that nothing will be redacted?
- beautifulady, on 03/28/2009, -3/+6That is why I commented regarding Obama. I am not sure what the procedure would be in this case, were Holder to determine that prosecution is in order. Will he go ahead and move against a former president without any input from Obama? Is there a legal precedent in US history, or would this be something new?
For whatever it's worth, I'm outraged that Clinton was dogged relentlessly for poor judgment that did not affect national security but only put him in hot water with his wife. Even Nixon was a piker compared to Bush/Cheney. Yet no one had the courage to pursue this crucial issue while that sleazeball was still in office. It should be easy now. The Republican party is so shredded that there will be no political fallout. - fury420, on 03/28/2009, -2/+5waterboarding is torture.
torture is not a policy difference.
torture is illegal under both the laws of the USA, and a violation of international treaties.
i for one would rather see the Bush administration prosecuted by the United States than leave these war crimes charges to the international community to deal with - beautifulady, on 03/28/2009, -0/+2I thought I read that she is stuck in the UK and can't get back to the US. ????
- sultanknish, on 03/29/2009, -1/+3Finally, someone who will stand up for the terrorists!
- beautifulady, on 03/28/2009, -1/+3I suppose you supported the invasion of Iraq, too.
- SuperVepr308, on 03/30/2009, -0/+2Evil Americans are the only ones that use torture apparently. Yeah, right.
- pinchduck, on 03/29/2009, -1/+2Obama is a politician. Did you forget that? Of course he won't push for prosecution.
- FredFredrickson, on 03/30/2009, -0/+1None of the report will be redacted, except for the part where ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓ ▓▓ ▓▓▓ ▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓▓!
- cfuse, on 03/29/2009, -2/+3I just don't think that America has made a clear decision on returning to dealing in a ethical fashion with the rest of the world. The Bush government might be gone, but if there is no justice then America cannot expect to be respected by the rest of the world. At the moment, the current Government appears to lack a conviction either way - they won't get behind Bush's legacy and they won't punish Bush for his crimes. Their inaction is what is going to wipe out any remaining goodwill that America has.
- toomanyhandles, on 03/28/2009, -3/+4I reread your last paragraph craginm:
you do know your nutcase of a fundamentalist presedent enacted secret rules that made him a ... pro-forma totalitarian dictator... right? - TheSkunkMonkey, on 03/30/2009, -1/+2Because the is a clear difference between one having you think that you could die at any second vs. one where your life is never really in danger.
The difference is that one experiences the terror of impending death and the other experiencing the discomfort associated with the practice in hopes the person would never do such a thing to another human to invoke the terror aspect.
If I led you up on to an hangman's platform where the trap door was visibly welded shut and I let you place a noose on your neck to pose for a picture, would you equate that to the person being led onto that platform with a hood on their head and a functioning trap door and a hangman placing and tightening the noose on his neck? - gopfan, on 03/28/2009, -1/+2Obama will not push to prosecute. With everything going on he will not want to be seen as a sitting president trying to prosecute a former president. Besides he has 4 years to go and not wanting every decision put under a legal microscope.
It seems Levin is always on a Bush/Cheney hunt. - Depthfunction, on 03/29/2009, -2/+3I'm sorry you don't believe in human rights or the rule of law, craginm.
- DD2CC2U, on 03/29/2009, -0/+1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu_UAPCqqH0&fea ...
- jleopold, on 03/29/2009, -1/+2once again, thank you folks for helping this story reach a wider audience. I am very grateful!
- FredFredrickson, on 03/30/2009, -0/+1Want to talk about a different subject? Submit the link and talk about it there.
- macdoodle, on 03/29/2009, -1/+2SO IF I WEAR BROWN which looks really good with my hair IM A NAZI?
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
and could you stick to the subject please? - Yeeeech, on 03/29/2009, -1/+2Let's see UPS calls themselves "brown", the Nazi propoganda machine, using the "brown shirts" buried anybody that disagreed with their "mantra" and this "progressive" group wants to bury a voice they don't like, and use UPS the brown shirts to help them. Sounds pretty much like 1930's German political tactic to me. Progressives hate criticism. Progressives do not realize that 4,000,000 people listen to a voice like O'Reilly, and 1.1 million listen their goon Anderson Cooper, so they use regressive repressive techniques to bury criticism of their throughly disgusting agenda. Fast forward to the past.
- craginm, on 03/30/2009, -0/+1If they're secret, how'd you find out about them? Got a reference for that toomy?
- craginm, on 03/30/2009, -0/+1OK, so all you've told me is that "torture" is whatever you say it is. Big whoop.
- jleopold, on 03/29/2009, -1/+1sorry you feel that way JD. That was three long years ago and you know what? I'm not apologizing because I have nothing to apologize for. And you need not trust anything I write since that is your right. But I've produced a large body of work since then which stands up to scrutiny.
- toomanyhandles, on 03/28/2009, -1/+1--
your current messianic administration decides to take them both for "your own good".
---
You are talking about the W regime, his fundamentalist "god blesses my every action" inanity, and the holy war he declared on .. anything he could... in order to bring about what his cult calls the Apocalypse, right? - toomanyhandles, on 03/28/2009, -2/+2I may not bethe first, but I might be the most succinct:
If we cannot or do not put them in prison, it doesn't matter. - craginm, on 03/30/2009, -1/+1How the hell do you know what I do (or don't) believe, disfunction?
- breadfred, on 03/28/2009, -1/+1Really. I mean, really. You haven't lived in the UK for 20 years, and expect 'your MP' to help you? You don't have an MP in the UK if you don't live there, muppet.
- thegrantman, on 03/28/2009, -2/+2"As a constitutional lawyer, I'm pretty sure Obama's horrified by the violations to our constitution."
Really, FreedomJoe?
He doesn't seem too horrified by FISA or the Patriot Act.
In fact ,he voted for the Patriot Act twice.
Just last year the liberals,constitutional conservatives,constitutional scholars,ACLU and libertarians were claiming that these laws were some of most blatant and dangerous violations to our constitution in U.S. history.
Admittedly,Obama has gone on record saying he'd make some changes.
Unfortunately,those changes are can be negated by the unspecific caveat "under special circumstances."
I'm sure the lack of clarity is simply a mistake,right? - jd75, on 03/28/2009, -4/+3jason leopold, i hate torture and everything the republicans have done to our country since bill clinton's blow job. but i've never seen you apologize properly for misleading people so incredibly badly on the karl rove "arrest" story. i can't trust anything you write.
- Calabashe, on 03/28/2009, -5/+1Kevin Tillman, brother of the slain NFL Player turned Army Ranger, Pat Tillman (my friend), recently published a booklet called "The Transparent Pillage." In it the middle brother states, "Our Leaders must be tried and punished for their crimes ..."
The Tillman case, for a time, came to represent the arrogance and lies perpetrated from the very top of the Rumsfeld Pentagon.
I agree with Kevin but doubt there will be prosecutions. I'm undecided if we the people should subject ourselves to such proceedings given the legacy (mess) the last administration burdened us with. Even Kevin goes on to say, "Most importantly, the pillaging must stop." - craginm, on 03/28/2009, -6/+1I've heard about the famous lefty inclination of Digg posters, but I've never really seen it in all its glory until I read this topic. Our beloved politicians no longer surprise me with their cravenness, but (except for Dennis Kucinich) I doubt many would serously support investigating let alone prosecuting former officials for what is nothing but policy differences.
All of you who claim to support investigating/prosecuting Bush & Cheny would have the effect of turning the US into a re-incarnated Soviet Union or Zimbabwe. What you guys are advocating is a sure route to totalianism, but then, isn't that what you really want anyway? - inactive, on 03/28/2009, -7/+2How come you liberal hyprocrites do not scream "torture" when SERE techniques are used in preparation of U.S. soldiers?
- arownious, on 03/28/2009, -6/+0I love how Bush is still being blamed by you bitter foolish liberals. Do you honestly think torture, in-house phone taping, or any of the plethora of things you love to tag on him are new to the US government and presidents? Tapping has been used since Kennedy, and torture since before this country officially existed.
Ahh the necessary evils to protect the freedoms and way of life of idiots like you all. Love your 1st Amendment right? Then learn to temper your tongue and use your brain before your current messianic administration decides to take them both for "your own good".
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