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78 Comments
- Metavised, on 05/17/2009, -1/+48FTA: “Back then, I discounted all the warnings about pot being the gateway drug and rolled my eyes at the propaganda...
Of course, everyone who smokes pot doesn’t go on to heroin or other drugs,” he said. “But everyone who does abuse heroin starts with pot. How do we navigate that?”
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I don't typically find the need to navigate imaginary problems.
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"Many studies have explored the question of whether or not marijuana use leads to heroin use. An unstated assumption in most of these studies seems to be the presupposition that marijuana use was the drug user's initiation into use of drugs. In two samples of ex-heroin addicts it was found that a majority of the subjects had not begun their drug use with marijuana."
Source: Marijuana and Heroin: A Study of Initiation of Drug Use by Heroin Addicts ("Addiction" Volume 70 Issue 2, Pages 192 - 197 Published Online: 24 Jan 2006) - mjk340, on 05/17/2009, -0/+35I could make a study that says 'breathing oxygen' leads to 'horse sex' because everyone that once ***** a horse breathed air first. The only problem with that: correlation is not equivalent to causation.
- ladysherwood, on 05/17/2009, -0/+35I think it sucks that this article is highlighting hypocrisy. Baby-boomers did it, liked it, but no son... it's not for you. How many people who are addicted to heroin drank alcohol first? Why is there no outcry there? To me, this stream of "logic," that pot leads to heroin abuse, is the same as Bill-O saying that legalizing gay marriage will lead to goat-dolphin marriage. does not compute.
- inactive, on 05/17/2009, -2/+34Tobacco and alcohol are the true gateway drugs. The reason they aren't considered? They're legal. If marijuana were legal, it would be like tobacco and alcohol, no longer considered a "drug." When most people think "drugs" the think illegal drugs.
There are NO good reasons to keep pot illegal. Every single reason I've ever heard is either based on an outright lie (smoking pot make you use heroin) or negated by alcohol's legality. If anyone knows a valid reason to keep pot illegal that ISN'T based on false propaganda, I'd love to hear it. - Jacob815, on 05/17/2009, -2/+23There are just too many good reasons to legalize marijuana.
- parisii, on 05/17/2009, -0/+18Some children become alcoholics. We don't want this to happen, but sometimes it does. That does not mean that alcohol should be illegal for adults, however.
We don't want children to have sex. Twelve is too young for consent. However, some children do have sex at such a young age. This does not mean that we want to prevent adults from having sex.
In fact, attempts to prevent adults from having sex or drinking an alcoholic beverage are ridiculous and have NOTHING to do with children.
Why is this asinine argument still made about cannabis? - yerdaddy, on 05/17/2009, -1/+18I don't see any need for the marijuana movement to even address the problems of other drugs. If the FDA bans a drug that makes people rot from the inside out and die, does that change the status of any other drug?
What about the billions of people who have used marijuana regularly but would never touch heroin? Navigate that. - Dustin00, on 05/17/2009, -1/+15I've also heard that everybody that uses heroin started with drinking water.
- incrediblechris, on 05/17/2009, -0/+14Study of 4000 indicates marijuana discourages use of hard drugs:
http://www.csdp.org/publicservice/medicalmj08.htm - yerdaddy, on 05/17/2009, -0/+12The concept of a "gateway drug" is nothing but propaganda.
- ladysherwood, on 05/17/2009, -0/+11I agree, but he is the first person who popped into my head when contemplating absurd correlations. thanks though!
- fyngyrz, on 05/17/2009, -0/+11If this nation were functioning properly, all of this would be irrelevant. Drug use is a matter of informed, personal or consensual choice. Not the nanny government telling you what you can or cannot ingest.
Every time you get into this stupid "for the children" argument, you further erode the basis for this country: liberty.
You want to know what's "for the children"? (1) Parental authority. (2) A country that preserves and guards personal liberties. (3) A political system that doesn't think the basis for its existence is to disenfranchise the citizen. If we can get those things handled, we'll actually - and finally - be doing the right thing for the children.
The question isn't, and has never been, "is marijuana a gateway drug."
The questions are, how did these petty tyrants ever usurp the authority to tell you what you can put in your own bodies? And how do we turn that around? - Fr4nk2012, on 05/17/2009, -3/+12I really do believe that Marijuana acts as a gateway. As soon as you smoke pot and realize that there is absolutely nothing wrong with it and that it in fact has many positives people tend to realize that the Government must be full of *****. The Marijuana issue helps enlighten people to the incredible amounts of hypocrisy in American politics.
- malex, on 05/17/2009, -0/+8They MIGHT move on to stronger drugs. They also might (and I think more frequently do) do the opposite, and find that their need to self-medicate diminishes over time. It really depends more on their own emotional development and support community than it does on chemistry.
- Fr3dMc, on 05/17/2009, -1/+9Sending the wrong message to kids by legalizing marijuana? Just treat it like tobacco which is legal and has seen a dramatic drop in use over the last 30 years by educating people about the risks of smoking "dont lie to yourself stoners marijuana has tar and other carcinogens" and I bet there would be little or no increase of teens smoking pot.
- zdwade, on 05/17/2009, -0/+8i just think if we outlawed oxygen it would help reduce the horse sex problem and save the kids. wont somebody think about the kids?
- inactive, on 05/18/2009, -0/+7The only way Marijuana leads to harder drugs is because it is illegal. I've seen a few of my friends start doing hard ***** because whatever pot dealer they had got them into it. If it were legal there would be no underground connection to the hard stuff. If anything legalizing marijuana would massively cut people's introduction to other drugs.
- lamejoketeller, on 05/17/2009, -0/+7The gateway argument is completely bogus! If there's any truth to it, then it can be solved through legalization. Kids might think "Oh, this is illegal but it's not bad for me, the government has been lying, what other drugs are they lying about?" but if it's legal, that thought process dies. Alcohol is addictive, potentially deadly, and extremely mind altering, but do you hear a gateway drug argument for alcohol? No, because it's legal.
- Fr4nk2012, on 05/17/2009, -0/+7So is your face.
- Coinspinner, on 05/17/2009, -0/+7Tried it, rejected it when stats didn't back it up.
According to NIDA, there are roughly for each 100 weed smokers one Cocaine user and 1/10th of a heroin user.
For your theory to hold, they'd have to be the same or within a couple standard-deviations, not radically different.
Btw, those numbers tell me there never was a drug "problem" in America. Just a bored, over-aggressive, confused fascist government at work. - snafflepaffle, on 05/17/2009, -0/+7"Alcohol is not meant to get you drunk."
What alternate reality do you live in? That's a major problem with you pro-prohibition folks, you seem to think the world is different than it actually is. - Moralogic, on 05/17/2009, -1/+8Alcohal is the #1 gateway drug into ALL other drugs, including:
Smoking and Chewing Tobacco
Marijuana
Heroin
Crack
Cocaine
LSD
X
and pretty much every other drug out there.
The studies I have seen have shown that 100s of times more people do pot than any of those others. Alcohol is far more. The cross population of pot and these other drugs is very minimal, but with alcohol it is extremely high. Lets work through it psychologically. Alcohol gets you to go out and do things you normally don't do. Pot normally makes you want to just lay down, relax, and sleep. What seems to be more likely to be a gateway drug? - tucson27, on 05/17/2009, -0/+6Actually, the harm done by smoked tobacco is dose dependent. The fact is that nicotine, the addictive substance but not the cause of the devastating health effects, is metabolized quickly, Tobacco smokers who are dependent smoke a LOT! Also, the tobacco in cigarettes and chew has been chemically enhanced to deliver more nicotine. The chemicals used and produced in manufacturing (around 4,000) contain over 60 known carcinogens.
The comparison with pot smoking doesn't hold up. Health data does not support a link between pot smoking and cancer or the severe respiratory illness clearly associated with tobacco.
That being said, I don't think tobacco should be illegal! We are doing a better job with this "hard drug" without the criminal justice system. - NZN444, on 05/17/2009, -0/+6I accessed drugs through my first job working at a restaurant as a busboy.
Jobs: the gateway to drugs - blackdeath88012, on 05/17/2009, -1/+7Scientific Article that goes into detail on how the gateway theory was disproven
http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/4/1/16 - highlymodified, on 05/17/2009, -0/+6Ha.
A plant is not "meant" to do anything. It's all in how one chooses to use it.
If you replace that harmless wine-with-dinner with a harmless joint-at-dinner, no one would ever know the difference.
But replace the millions of drunk-driving fatalities and alcoholics with munchie-binges and weekend-smokers, the world would be a better place. - arplayer2k, on 05/17/2009, -0/+5You forgot about breathing air.
- mediaphile, on 05/17/2009, -0/+5Of course you could just vaporize it or eat it and not have to worry about the carcinogens and tar that come through the combustion of plant material.
- bobmclaren, on 05/17/2009, -0/+5I love weed.
- DrFrizzy, on 05/17/2009, -0/+5I totally agree. If your kid smokes weed at 12, either your school system absolutely sucks or he's unhappy and seeking out a way to rebel. Unhappy people medicate and then lapse into addiction -- but the problem is the unhappiness, not the drugs.
- durruticolumn, on 09/18/2009, -0/+4"First of all when it is on the ballot it is voted down by the majority"
Proposition 22 in 2000 lost 61.4% to 38%.
Proposition 8 in 2008 passed 52.47% to 47.53%.
If Prop 8 was only voted on by the under-30 crowd, it would have lost by a spread of around 40%. I don't know about you, but I think that's some serious progress made. If the trend continues, next time a gay marriage ban goes to vote (if it does), it has very little chances of passing.
I think the legalization/decriminalization movement taking inspiration from the gay marriage movement is a really great idea. - v3rtex7740, on 05/17/2009, -1/+5excellent xkcd reference. http://xkcd.com/552/
- highlymodified, on 05/17/2009, -1/+5Mr. Nadelmann gave a presentation at my university. Brilliant, funny, no-***** man who really cares about the issues.
I'm glad to see him becoming the frontman for such an important movement as legalization. - NZN444, on 05/17/2009, -0/+4Unless "Being Born" is the gateway to drugs...
- Coinspinner, on 05/17/2009, -0/+4Sorry, Mr. Nadelmann, it isn't your "model". (big fan, sir, btw!!)
It's that you can only keep a huge lie a secret for so long. This one's time has come. - matude, on 05/17/2009, -0/+4Spain is a good example of good drug decriminilazation.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=p ... - iskin, on 05/17/2009, -0/+4You say propaganda like it is an inherently evil thing. It's not just that it is propaganda, it's also that it is a baseless lie.
- bigbangbuddha, on 05/17/2009, -0/+4@alvarezg
...and they do that weather its legal or not. But put them in jail instead of NA or rehab? How does that help anyone. Labeling them for life and giving them a criminal record, how does this solve addiction. Incarceration is a means of solving societies problems by removing the symptoms, not attacking the disease. - hmmmdonut, on 05/17/2009, -0/+4About 6 months ago I was busted with a little over a ounce of Cannabis. In Florida that constitutes felony possession and in order for me to avoid jail I had to enroll into a drug rehabilitation program. Keep in mind that I'm not an Addict (All I do is smoke weed) but the state treats all felony drug charges the same. However being in this program give me a unique look into drug addiction, in that I have be around these addicts several times a week.
What I have seen from being in this program surrounded by heroin and cocaine addicts is that many of them didn't start with Marijuana but Alcohol. In all the NA meetings that I have been forced to attend the age of first use seems to be the driving factor behind most of these people drug use. The most destructive addicts in the programs are always the ones that started using drugs earliest. I can imagine that using drugs at such a young age might have a negative impact on cognitive development and maybe that is why these addicts move on to more dangerous drugs.
Even the article shows the same pattern. Mr Sheff's kid nic started smoking at 12 years old. He probably never developed good non drug seeking habits, and because of that probably has a hard time being sober. - TheScogg, on 05/17/2009, -1/+5This is absolutely true in my experiences. Marijuana is just good enough to satisfy that need to be chemically influenced while not altering your mind in a dangerous way. There have been many nights where I have really wanted to drink about 7-8 beers. The closest liquor store is a 35 minute round trip drive, which usually doesn't faze me. However, after smoking a good bowl, I am almost always satisfied and unmotivated enough to just stay home.
- iskin, on 05/17/2009, -0/+4or watching television.
- BassMastr, on 05/17/2009, -0/+3Zarchon - Why do you feel you need to force your beliefs on others? Why not give them the right to make their own decision? You know this is America right?
- jeremymccurdy, on 05/17/2009, -0/+3Hello troll.
- malex, on 05/17/2009, -0/+3He's quoting multiple people, Double.
- iskin, on 05/17/2009, -0/+3Actually, tobacco products are the only proven gateway drug. More than 70% of all drug addicts started with tobacco products. There is no other drug which more than 50% of addicts abused before they found whatever drug it was to cause so many problems in their lives.
My guess is that the numbers between your studies and mine are tabulated in a different way. But, it was what I was taught. - DOUBLEZER00, on 05/17/2009, -4/+7That's one of the worst legalization articles I've ever read. He flip flops more times than John Kerry. This is just a read to confuse the uninformed and stir doubt by recalling other peoples ill informed 'battles' with marijuana.
- blugill, on 05/17/2009, -3/+6The gay marriage model isn't a good one to follow.
First of all when it is on the ballot it is voted down by the majority and it goes to the court to be overturned.
That won't happen with pot people. - Mryddlin, on 05/17/2009, -0/+3It's Portugal that decriminilazed not Spain. (I think Spain is following suite soon).
Every metric used to track drug use etc dropped significantly. They did this for ALL drugs, not just pot. Instead of putting a junkie in jail (which is stupid and pointless) they put OFFERED them treatment.
If you get caught using any drug you get sent to a committee that evaulates your usage, if you are a normal user (i.e. regular pot smoker caught in public) you get a fine. If you are a junkie it is illegal to fine them, instead they look at treatment options and try to HELP the person instead of throwing them in a cell.
How did they pay for it? The massive saving they got from the prison/police industry around the drug war.
Unfortunately they never considered or evaulated the effect of fully legalization. They didn't look at that issue because of the treaties with the States. The Portugal experiment proves what decrimilazation advocates have been saying for years. Take away the 'bad boy' image from it and it's just normalized and not that big of a deal.
Keep it illegal and it becomes a status/coolness factor that just pushes people into it.
Gateway drugs arguement is moronic, look at the family and personal issues of junkies and you will find you answers there. - diemunkiesdie, on 05/18/2009, -0/+3I've had the same argument with a friend many times. I always claim that the government should not be telling me what to do with my body and what I can put in it. He always relies on the moral argument that smoking marijuana is wrong and the less smokers there are the better. That is why he wants to keep it illegal. He feel that the second it is legalized, people who would never have thought of smoking would start doing it. I tell him so what, they are law abiding citizens, and if they want to try something that should never have been illegal in the first place, why should we fault them?
We rarely discuss politics anymore. - eXcommunicate, on 05/17/2009, -0/+3The article is indeed bollocks.
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