What is Digg?81 Comments
- EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -5/+57Rove isn't dead yet.
First, they'll blame this on some low-level IT guy, let's call him "Dog," as in the dog that ate my homework.
Then, they'll blame it on individual staffers. But when it's clear that Jennings, for example, only used his gwb43 and didn't ever "accidentially" switch to the wrong account, people will ask, "Hey, White House Lawyers, when you got an official [non-campaign] emails from Jennings@gwb43, why didn't you remind him that this was illegal?"
Then, we'll see one or two WH lawyers get tossed out the back of the van. Let's call them, "Bobby," as in "Can you fly, Bobby?"
Then, when it comes time to ask Rove why he approved this policy back in January 2001 (found by Dog, in his secret backups, and without the Bobbies there to threaten him), Rove will go into rehab.
Where's Bush in all this? Apparently, he doesn't set any policy in his White House. He's promised to get to the bottom of this, just as he promised for Valerie Plane, and just as OJ is still looking for the real killers.
When it comes time for Bush to take the blame. goodbye Tehran. - swrostmore, on 10/12/2007, -4/+35Sen. Leahy has been VT's senator for 37 years. His character is unimpeachable and he has a history of not voting party lines. Your implication that Mr. Leahy is disseminating DLC propoganda is ludicrous. In the immortal words of V.P. Cheney, originally spoken to Sen. Leahy, "Go ***** yourself."
- JCSaint, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26Rove moves forward regardless. Like the Terminator.
- jaredseth, on 10/12/2007, -4/+27outhouseinput,
Nice attempt at a derail.
I am occasionally called upon to do email discovery for lawsuits, and mind you my company is not held to remotely the same retention standards as the White House. While you may not get everything, at least something is always recoverable when you're dealing with thousands of emails. The only "whether or not" here is:
1. The emails are unretrievable, which means they were deliberately destroyed.
2. The emails are retrievable, in which case this is a clear attempt to stall.
Emails don't just accidentally disappear from multiple inboxes, sent item folders and tape backups on their own.
Edit: And unusualbob, I presume you're talking about the firings of the prosecutors? Because if by "removing them" you're referring to these emails it is most certainly illegal, in direct violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978 (passed in response to the Watergate scandal). - Rsulliv1, on 10/12/2007, -5/+26oversight != propaganda
- tHePeOPle, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25Right, because congressional oversight of the administrations horrible douchebaggery is the equivalent of a witch hunt. Open your ***** eyes.
- elhaf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16It's a lot of the same people.
- grendel59, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14The Bush Legacy: Completely incompetent and more corrupt than Nixon. Congrats, George. Mission Accomplished.
- technogenius, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18*waits for neo-con to say "well so and so did it" *
- crucifiedpooh, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14As a government contractor in IT myself, we are bound to follow the regulations and policies set forth by the Agency we work for. If something falls outside of the norm, then it is usually at the behest of a civil servant. Due to FOIA requests, all email should be archived, so, as if it isn't already obvious, they are circumventing the rules for CYA purposes. Governance by obfuscation, just one more reason for impeachment ..
(Stay tuned .. we'll be hearing advertisements for Vaporstream next) - grendel59, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Spoken like a true 'winger. Mission Accomplished. You're a shining example of a patriotic bush supporter. What to be the attorney general? Be the first 'War Czar'? Run the Department of Education? I'm sure you'll be among Bush's first choices. You certainly have the qualifications.
- warmonger48, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15I was watching a "Final Report" about Watergate on National Geographic Channel the other night, and the similarities between the two administrations is striking.
- SOULEVENT, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Its the liberal email system plotting to tear down america...
Or maybe its that BLASTED liberal concept of TRUTH that is out to get Bush...
Or, maybe its Tim Robbins fault that the "President" and his "Humans" are incapable of being honest...
Notice His most avid supporters here will not defend their beloved "leader" but simply slink away into the diggstrom spewing hate and lies along the way.
You people should have stuck to fighting liberals on drugs, abortion, and blowjobs...cuz you dont have a ***** CLUE HOW TO PRESERVE DEMOCRACY or UPHOLD THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY!!! - swrostmore, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12"if by "removing them" you're referring to these emails it is most certainly illegal, in direct violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978 (passed in response to the Watergate scandal)."
That is precisely why they were using RNC email accounts, and not white house accounts. Plausible deniability.
However the white house press secretary explicitly stated that they were indeed keeping records of RNC emails, for the last few years nonetheless. - grendel59, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11From White House spokesman Scott Stanzel:
"I guess the bottom line is that our policy at the White House was not clear enough for employees."
Stanzel also notes that the handbook all staffers are given and expected to comply with says that "Federal law requires the preservation of electronic communications sent or received by White House staff."
Clearly, White House employees and staff are not able to following basic directions.
Based on these statements, Rove and the other White House staffers must be absolutely baffled by microwave dinners, retail CD containers and VCRs. No wonder Cheney shot his hunting partner....he must have been confused.
Source: Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/04/12/BL2007041200941.html - geekee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11"You can't erase e-mails, not today," said Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vermont. "They've gone through too many servers. They can't say they've been lost. That's like saying, 'The dog ate my homework.' "
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/12/white.house.email/index.html - SOULEVENT, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12nah, that case has its roots in JFK, and 50,000+ Americans died over that...of course, the right blames Jane Fonda for Vietnam.
- grendel59, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I love to watch 'winger rants descend into raving, illogical diatribes. It's a sure sign someone got it right.
Thanks rationalthinker. I'll assume this article is accurate. - Leviathan777, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8There's nothing legal about obstruction of justice. There's nothing legal about using law enforcement for partisan purposes.
Say you set up a roadblock to catch drunk drivers. But the Republican mayor instructs the police to be on extra special lookout for his political opponents, and give a pass to Republicans. You think this is legal? Really?
This administration hates democracy. That's all there is to it. They have no morals, and their unethical and illegal behavior knows no bounds.
How's that "honor and integrity" thing going? Awful. This administration operates like the Mafia. No other organization's worst misdeed are a hundredth as bad as this crew. - SOULEVENT, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15Just stop arguing with these Bush fanatics, they have done nothing for 7 years but defend treason...and murder our soldiers so they can feel like Patriots while their kids are off in college learning how to be the NEXT PIECES OF ***** LIKE THEIR PARENTS.
YOU PEOPLE DESERVE WTF THIS PRESIDENT IS GOING TO DO TO YOU!!! - grendel59, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9"it would be pretty stupid to commit a crime covering up a non-crime" -- geekee
...and completely expected form this administration. Would *anyone* be shocked by this? Nope. - SOULEVENT, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11and if you think pointing to the "oh its partisan politics" should excuse the Crimes of this Administration, then you are a disgrace to TRUTH.
You ought to go look into a mirror before you try to make anymore arguments about fools. Since the Democrats are playing politics (by trying to investigate criminal activities) maybe we should just let Bush enact martial law, fair? Or maybe his "people" can support him murdering another 3,000+ Americans, non? - EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Spoken like a true rational thinker. Even your username lies!
- EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7habernus, a) please post the link instead of an excerpt, b) it doesn't matter. Gore is not in office, Bush is.
- jaredseth, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6habemus,
So because Gore did it, we should ignore this? Everybody else gets a pass?
So I should be able to go out and make millions through fraud, because after all someone else has already been convicted of fraud right? - EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Do you have any actual commentary of value, aptly named 'catchphrase' ?
- rhawk301, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Rove already saw this coming and had a pre-arranged e-mail trigger so he could wipe everything directly from his Blackberry using a simple string of words. I can see him huridly typing "The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep."
- EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4You know, I think rationalthinker may actually be none other than Dick Cheney... I didn't know you used Digg, Dick! Huzzah!
- 68024, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Is it Clinton's fault yet?
- EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@trscheel, whether you keep emails or not is not an issue, unless you work in the White House. Do you? Now I'm actually wondering...
Anyway, I don't believe these emails are actually gone. I think, like the 18 minutes, they could disappear at any moment. But I'd bet money that there are backups, or at least drives which have been used for backups which might still have data on them.
At the very least, now that we know the WH has been destroying evidence, er, I mean emails for 6 years, I say let's get the last 30 days they admit exists and see if there are also any violations of national security in there. I mean, any emailing about Bush or Cheney travel plans, war planning, etc.. would not only be a violation of the Presidential Recordings Act, but also of national security.
Can the White House now claim that it HASN'T used outside email for those purposes? I don't know where the proof would be... And if there's a compelling _lack_ of such email in the officially recorded system...
I think we have to now check their RNC servers to find out. Where's the FBI when you need them? - SOULEVENT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3No No No...the extreme right wing propaganda machine has simply done an excellent job at coloring everything "anti-america" when it is actually "anti-*****"...you should ensure not to confuse the two.
I imagine the 30% that is left supporting him, are those REALLY ***** crazy people who just HATE all day long, thinking of ways to put their faults on someone else...cus they definately cant defend their own actions.
Bush supporters made damn certain they were going to turn TRUTH into the enemy, not terrorists...terrorism is doing just ***** dandy huh?
Good Job "Patriots" - laserblazer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Most Americans oppose Bush. It may be said of those fools that support Bush that they deserve it, but the greater part of America and the rest of the world does not deserve the victimization that the Bush regime is delivering upon them.
Clarify lest you alienate those who agree with you. - wonderchemist, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6However when Clinton lied his sperm died.
- EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Not only that, but if they went over AT&T network lines to get to those servers, then the NSA has a copy. Subpoena the NSA.
- stepnw1f, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4This is getting very interesting. According to Mr. Kelner, Rove in particular may have obstructed justice by deleting his own emails, during the Plame Investigation, even after Patrick Fitzgerald, the prosecutor told him not to.
here's the link:
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002998.php - geekee, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5If proof is found that this wasn't an accident, the liberals will finally have evidence to actually go after top white house officials for real crimes. Given that firing those attorneys, although unethical, was not a crime, it would be pretty stupid to commit a crime covering up a non-crime.
- grendel59, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"Who ***** cares!" -- dcmachead
Right! Who cares if federal law was broken. Bush is "the decider!" I'm sure you were saying that while they spent $40 million chasing Clinton.
Seriously though...it's not the attorneys...it's the process. Remember the American democracy? ...perhaps you rather have a dictatorship?
Why are Bush supporters so anti-America? - rhawk301, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Somebody should contact the NSA. I am sure they have been tapping the Blackberry network for years. They most likely have a full and complete log of everything that Rove and others have sent using the Blackberry network. It is a simple encryption algorithm going over public air waves which then establishes a vpn session to the White house Blackberry server. If the NSA doesn't have a copy of them, I would be surprised.
If anyone needs the phone for the NSA, try 1-800-688-6115 and ask for Electronic SIGINT. They should direct you towards the White house/RNC e-mail archive. Or you can send e-mail to nsapao@nsa.gov with appropriate clearance. - fido99, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3There's a simple solution to fixing the Bush Administration. Bring back the draft. It has a way of evening things out. If you think about it would the US have gone to war if wealthy people's kids were on the line? I bet people would question things a little more if there was a personal connection to the war. Instead to the average person the war is little more then a game of Axis & Allies (little army men moving around the board). Maybe if people questioned the war they would have questioned a few other things going on as well and things wouldn't have been allowed to get so out of hand.
Here's an idea before any war randomly select a % of the administration's kids that have to go to war. Shouldn't be a problem if the war is justified. Call me crazy but maybe the people making enormous decisions that affect the whole country should have a personal stake in those decisions. - EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@geekee, I dug you up for the "pretty stupid" part, but Leviathan is absolutely right. If the firings were intended to obstruct justice, then that's plainly illegal. It's hard to prove intent, but not impossible if, say, there's an email that shows it.
- EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Billions of sperm.... And every sperm is sacred. Every single one.
It's a genocide of Clintonian proportions. - SOULEVENT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@rationalthinker
haha, thats rationalthinking? Im sure Cheney and George appreciate your support. Dont plan on that support when you die.
You best be one rich, sneaky bastard to hide after martial law, cuz you open your mouth then, someone will shut it for you...im guessing. - cjhowe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3this one is too easy...
"Clearly, White House employees and staff are not able to following basic directions. "
What was your first clue this administration couldn't follow basic directions?
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
[...]
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
[...]
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
[..]
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
[...]
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people. - dupswapdrop, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Emails are never ever truly lost, as the xfiles use to say "the truth is out there". Those emails are just sitting on someones server waiting to be found. Not that old dumb as a post bush will ever know it.
- EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Wow. That's amazing. People should read the above link. If true, it shows the WH was not, as claimed, deleting old emails after 30 days after Aug 2004, but Rove may have done so anyway. The attorney firings came in 2006, so...
I think it's worth posting an excerpt...
____________
According to Mr. Kelner, the RNC had a policy, which the RNC called a "document retention" policy, that purged all e-mails from RNC e-mail accounts and the RNC server that were more than 30 days old. Mr. Kelner said that as a result of unspecified legal inquiries, a "hold" was placed on this e-mail destruction policy for the accounts of White House officials in August 2004. Mr. Kelner was uncertain whether the hold was consistently maintained from August 2004 to the present, but he asserted that for this period, the RNC does have alarge volume of White House e-mails. According to Mr. Kelner, the hold would not have prevented individual White House officials from deleting their e-mail from the RNC server after August 2004.
Mr. Kelner's briefing raised particular concems about Karl Rove, who according to press reports used his RNC accountfor 95%o of his communications. According to Mr. Kelner, although the hold started in August 2004, the RNC does not have any e-mails prior to 2005 for Mr. Rove. Mr. Kelner did not give any explanation for the e-mails missing from Mr. Rove's account, but he did acknowledge that one possible explanation is that Mr. Rove personally deleted his e-mails from the RNC server.
Mr. Kelner also explained that starting in 2005, the RNC began to treat Mr. Rove's emails in a special fashion. At some point in 2005, the RNC commenced an automatic archive policy for Mr. Rove, but not for any other White House officials. According to Mr. Kelner, this archive policy removed Mr. Rove's ability to personally delete his e-mails from the RNC server. Mr. Kelner did not provide many details about why this special policy was adopted for Mr. Rove. But he did indicate that one factor was the presence of investigative or discovery requests or other legal concerns. It was unclear from Mr. Kelner's briefing whether the special archiving policy for Mr. Rove was consistently in effect after 2005. - d00ley, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"*waits for neo-con to say "well so and so did it" *"
Then, the very next comment:
"Well, some emails got deleted, who knows how. At least it's not like someone is stuffing classified docs in his pants and socks, or at least it's not like the president's wife is perusing through the FBI files of hundreds of political opponents.... Yeah, it's only the republicans who do nasty stuff...."
LOL. Perfect ***** timing. Couldn't have planned it better myself. - SOULEVENT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2why are you pissing your life away pretending to care about RIGHT OR WRONG...oops wait, you werent pretending, you dont care.
- SOULEVENT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I dont care how nice you want to be, I think whiteraven is an *****, as I do ANYONE who babbles about what the PUBLIC doesnt have the right to know.
If it is some covert, top secret action that would endanger us...by all means, dont tell me.
But if your running around saying they should be able to discuss secretly, and in BUSH's case, deviously what affects us all, screw you...your kind of blind eyes have got us nothing but LIE after LIE after LIE. - stepnw1f, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1blah, blah, dur, burp
- SOULEVENT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@Leviathan
I dont really appreciate you insulting the mafia...jk -
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