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64 Comments
- THEchemisTREE, on 11/24/2008, -0/+47There is gong to be a ton of ***** hitting the fan for these guys after they're done in office....
- BoulderSue, on 11/24/2008, -0/+36I am not in the mood for revenge or "witch-hunting", but I think we have a right to know what Bush et.al. did in our names, while we were paying all these people to run the country. It would be priceless history and probably full of information on how not to run a country, and would set a precedent for openness in government that is essential for the type of nation we aspire to be. We really need to know what was going on behind our backs and have a right to know. WE are the government and our tax dollars went toward Bush, et.al.'s actions and scheming. As soon as Congress can see it's way clear (after helping Obama get us out of this economic mess), let the hearings begin.
- GaDove, on 11/24/2008, -1/+26There is no way to impeach a president that is already leaving office (see above)
This SHOULD have been done right when Gonzales was 'unable to remember' in his investigation. I hope that Obama can at least make sure that not a single scrap of paper is taken out of Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfield's offices. Right now it would be too counter productive to Obama to have a huge prosecution....but if he at least makes sure that the 'secrets' are able to be revealed, then maybe in his second term he can address the wire tapping, torture, Haliburton war profiteering, etc. of the Bush legacy. I want to as much as anyone to find out now what these scumbags did, but I also want Obama to succeed first and foremost. There will be a day of reckoning, but perhaps it can't happen for a few years. - thepoliticalcat, on 11/24/2008, -0/+21I've changed my position on impeachment. It's a *political* punishment as opposed to a criminal indictment. Vince Bugliosi knew what he was talking about when he published a book about undertaking a criminal trial for murder, instead. Murder and war crimes: impeachment does nothing to punish one who would undertake such acts, a criminal prosecution does.
- Alheithinn, on 11/24/2008, -0/+21Well, it's easy enough. Criminals get charged. If they're guilty, they're punished. Bush & Cheney should be put on trial. If they're guilty, the rest follows.
- jseaglin, on 11/24/2008, -2/+21Impeachment is without question.
- JenniferInMO, on 11/25/2008, -0/+19FTA:
"The thought of revisiting this history after living through it for eight years is exhausting, and both President Barack Obama and Congress will have every political reason to just move on. But we can’t—it’s too important."
This is a comprehensive article which points out the type of information which might be lost forever if there is not a concerted effort of Congress, the Obama Administration and public interest groups to work from every angle to save history and determine what happened over the past 8 years. It is a long article, but well researched and well-written. I hope it reaches someone on the Obama team. - thenekkidtruth, on 11/24/2008, -0/+17If I do anything in this life, it will be to remind the world of the black, undeniable truth of America's darkest era. The Reichswing truth-remanufacturers are obviously out in full force already, but they'll have to get past me first.
NEVER again. - oddneighbor, on 11/25/2008, -0/+16I've always pretty much assumed that Bush and Cheney were shredding documents as they went along...and certainly, during these final days, are destroying evidence 24/7.
- MaryRW, on 11/24/2008, -0/+15I think Homans is right that the first priority is to secure the missing information so that the story (stories) can be told. The next priority is to work to ensure that the Bush administration's abuses cannot happen again. Prosecuting members of the administration is unlikely to bear any fruit or produce any positive results. That's not to say that the perpetrators don't deserve to be prosecuted. But any reward is unlikely to be worth whatever effort is put into securing it.
Most crucial is the need to drag all that has been hidden out into the light. Then we can figure out what to do about it. - oddneighbor, on 11/25/2008, -0/+14agreed. let's indict.
millions dead or tortured. bush, cheney, and their henchpeople belong in prison...or at the sharp end of a lethal injection. - Batfishy, on 11/24/2008, -0/+13tree - I have to agree with you. While I think in theory it would be nice to let it all go so that we can move on, maybe future administrations need to see some consequences in action to help prevent this type of abuse of power from happening again.
But more to the point - if people died due to this administrations greed, stupidity and ineptitude, heads should roll.
I'm not in the mood for revenge, either, Sue. But the only way to keep our leaders in line is to hold them accountable for their actions. - GrandmaSheila, on 11/25/2008, -0/+13If we do NOT go after these people for their crimes against humanity, their treasons against the Constitution, and our people, we are lost.
We CANNOT let them walk. This has nothing to do with "revenge" and everything to do with who we are, and what we really believe about the rule of law here. Either people who start illegal wars, which result in the death and maiming of millions, are criminals and held accountable, or you can just throw out the Constitution and International law too, because we are then just a nation of thugs, of barbarians, who will be justly loathed and despised by the rest of the world.
I'm sorry, but genocide should not be given a pass in the name of "bipartisan cooperation".
If it should, why the hell did we prosecute the Nazis? Back then, we understood this. Now, it seems we have forgotten.
And THAT may be the worst thing this junta of life-long serial traitors and murderers has done: stripped us of any national conscience, because they never had any form of one. These people should be hauled off in tumbrels, not allowed to fly to Dubai and Paraguay, basking in their stolen billions! - jlfb, on 11/24/2008, -0/+12I think we should know what really happened. That would be good for our nation and the world.
- THEchemisTREE, on 11/24/2008, -0/+12Revenge would be wrong but what if we found out that they falsified everything, breached privacy to all US citizens and subsequently profited off of the war and their lies? At that point we have an obligation to send a message to our leaders beyond removal from office. This hypothetical corruption can't be tolerated and is a step towards national collapse.
- thepoliticalcat, on 11/24/2008, -1/+13Trust me on this, they did much more and much worse than anything that's been uncovered so far. Once they're out of office, the fit is going to hit the shan, and I mean bigtime. If you've been following the stories of their foul misdeeds - just the wiretapping, for instance: an AT&T employee/whistleblower has stated unequivocally that AT&T recorded every single telephone call carried on their lines. Or wait till Sibel Edmonds is finally allowed to testify.
- JungDigg, on 11/25/2008, -0/+10I'm pretty sure most of the good stuff is shredded.
- Grin23, on 11/25/2008, -0/+9or at the bottom end of a noose or the opposite end of a firing squad......
- peheimbach, on 11/25/2008, -0/+8Three ironies here:
1. The year in which the public (at least in the form of the National Archives) would first gain real access to Bush/Cheney's records is "2020".
2. The President and VP are (hopefully) going to find themselves under a microscope quite similar to that which they've spent the last eight years developing for use on us -- they watched millions of pages of OUR communications? Now we get to watch theirs.
3. Thomas Kean's story (in the last 4 paragraphs) could be taken two ways.
On a more serious note, I'd feel almost PANICKED if I were John W Carlin. I know there's always the fear of being cross-checked agains s/o else who DIDN'T shred a document, but with millions of pages, who's got time to cross-check? - eco57, on 11/25/2008, -0/+7That's why they're all gonna get pardoned.
- Ralphdraw3, on 11/25/2008, -1/+7I have heard and read that Obama and the Democratic Congress have little or no interest in holding Bush and Cheney or their subordinates accountable. The Democrats want to concentrate on, first, the economic crisis and second Iraq.
The Democratic talking point with regard to the Bush/Cheney crimes is: "We and President-elect Obama want to move forward.... (we don't want to review the past - to find out what went wrong etc...)" I am hearing this from Congressional offices already. Despite the fact that - the CIA is in ruins; the State Department is ruins; and the Justice Department is in ruins - and FEMA/ Homeland Security is a complete joke.
This refusal to review the past mistakes will just continue the American pattern in government, business, military and journalism - No One is held accountable for crimes or mistakes (in fact, frequently incompetence is greatly rewarded if it is accompanied by utter loyalty to the superiors in power).
An Independent Commission is needed:
call it
a 9-12 Commission
or a Truth and Reconciliation Commission - pcghost, on 11/25/2008, -0/+6Torches and pitchforks anyone? It seems the only way to hold these pricks accountable for their crimes.
- sarahlee, on 11/25/2008, -0/+6@Batfishy - We let Nixon go and it just embolden them to try harder to do more damage.
- MsLaurel, on 11/25/2008, -1/+7FTA: "A growing body of investigative reporting and memoirs by Bush White House insiders-turned-dissenters suggests that most of the administration’s most controversial national security decisions—on wiretapping, the Iraq War, and renditions—originated in the Office of the Vice President, hashed out by Cheney, vice presidential counsel David Addington, and aide I. Lewis 'Scooter' Libby. Cheney’s papers are the Amazon rain forest of Bush administration records: they are of immense importance to the big picture, and there is a real risk that they will be lost before we know exactly what’s in there. If there is one overarching priority between now and January 20, it is to surround Cheney’s office with every possible legal barrier to removing so much as a Post-it Note from the premises."
(Those IT people know how to retrieve things you thought you deleted. Then there's the information backup-system. I'm hoping that somewhere, some guy with tape around his glasses has copies.) - aereaus, on 11/25/2008, -1/+7Bush and Co. will cut and run. They're heading to Paraguay, which doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US.
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=532 ... - brikj, on 11/25/2008, -1/+6But only because the only person willing to give him one was Cheney.
- Ralphdraw3, on 11/25/2008, -0/+4I doubt that there will be any "witch-hunting". Witch-hunting is the Republicans' forte not the Democrats, who can't even call Bush a "liar" out loud in Congress.
There won't be any "justice" because there probably won't be any indictments, prosecutions or convictions in the court system.
The best that we, the people, can hope for - in my opinion, is that all the facts come out about the Bush administration (which is busy, desperately busy, trying to hide the facts.) At least during the Watergate hearings, almost all the Nixon administration's crimes became public information.
American politicians, Democrats and Republicans, have become adept at doing two things:
1) avoiding responsible
2) avoiding taking any concrete action (inaction is almost always preferred - in all cases) - Grin23, on 11/25/2008, -0/+4we should hang em anyways.
- Heapbasket, on 11/25/2008, -1/+5I'm sure many Americans would want to know about what occurred during these eight years. We put Obama there, he needs to do this for us.
- inactive, on 11/25/2008, -0/+4Gee, ya think?
- drmobutu, on 11/25/2008, -0/+4The White House has "lost" most of their email records...
- 666dorado, on 11/25/2008, -4/+8c'mon, give bush a break. it's not like he lied about getting a blow job or anything!
- pleochroic, on 11/25/2008, -1/+4me too. but i am hoping that underlings with some semblance of conscience won't, and that eventually much of the truth will come out anyway.
- inactive, on 11/24/2008, -4/+7I'm all for frying Bush and his cronies, but I'm really worried that this will take precedence over the economy and Iraq/Afghanistan.
A separate, independent investigation into the wrongdoings of the Bush administration (there are hundreds) so congress and POTUS Obama can focus on our immediate needs...?
This country is in a pickle... - susanswilk, on 11/25/2008, -1/+4Or in Cheney's man-sized safe.
- gobbleplex, on 11/25/2008, -0/+3their hiring practices probably weeded out things like conscience.
- wunksta, on 11/25/2008, -0/+2declassify and charge
- Grin23, on 11/25/2008, -0/+2they could always just burn the machines down-
- Waiting2awake, on 11/25/2008, -0/+2David - I am merely pointing out what hasn't worked. You haven't disagreed with that part, seemingly. Continuing to do, what hasn't worked, is pointless - can you agree with that?
So America is left with few options it would appear. Quietly submit and know your children will be less free than you(I hope isn't an option people will take) or take more drastic steps...
BTW - There is a host of others things you can do other than armed revolution. Anything from not paying income taxes, to refusing any fines, to social disruption - the list is endless.
All of which will ONLY require the Americans to be what they have always held themselves out to be... Free, and willing to protect their country. Sadly, that appears to be much much more propaganda than fact. - Grin23, on 11/25/2008, -1/+3a hanging!!!
- THEchemisTREE, on 11/24/2008, -1/+3I totally agree, but until it is well documented and exposed we're just waiting ya know...
- MurphyWatson, on 11/25/2008, -0/+2If no one does anything now, then it will happen again.Call it a witch hunt, but its necessary.
- inactive, on 11/25/2008, -0/+2So you want an armed revolution? Good luck with that.
- Waiting2awake, on 11/25/2008, -0/+2Stick them in a building a light a fire.. the building will collapse crushing all evidense...
I love it when a plan comes together.. - Uthman, on 11/25/2008, -1/+2or an 'airplane' (--read missile) might fly into the building where the records are kept
not that such things have happened before - DangerCollie, on 11/25/2008, -0/+1It doesn't matter what laws Congress passes, if the next Republican president appoints a political lackey as Attorney General it'll happen all over again.
Bush appointed his dog as Atty General and a toady when the dog got kicked out.
Republicans showed their true hypocrisy by not impeaching Bush and Cheney. We have to find a way to stop the next one from taking us for another ride on the unitary executive railroad. - Phylter, on 11/25/2008, -0/+1Aaaaaahhhhhhh, it's good to be the King! Monty Python springs to mind
ARTHUR: Well, we all are. we're all Britons and I am your king.
WOMAN: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an
autonomous collective.
DENNIS: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship.
A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--
WOMAN: Oh there you go, bringing class into it again.
DENNIS: That's what it's all about if only people would-- - THEchemisTREE, on 11/29/2008, -0/+1unfortunately eco, I must agree
- Waiting2awake, on 11/25/2008, -1/+2Writing has been tried. It didn't work.
Also, calling was tried and it didn't work.
Email was tried, also didn't work. Peaceful protest was tried - once again didn't work...
So what is left when all peaceful means have been exhausted? - Uthman, on 11/25/2008, -0/+1does anyone else find it ironic that the bush administration is clouded with secrecy, yet subject the citizens of our country to invasive measures and laws such as the patriot act?
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