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- inactive, on 03/07/2009, -35/+144Israel talks and negotiates for only one reason - to gain time.
With each passing year they steal more and more territory, leaving Palestinians in isolated enclaves where they cannot possibly earn a living. Israel gains time and progressively destroys the Palestinian quality of life.
It is psychological warfare, acts like cutting down ancient olive groves are planned to impart a sense of utter defeat.
And Israel will win. Israel will end up with all of the West Bank and push the Palestinians into Jordan. Thats horrible, truly inhumane and unfair, but its what will happen.
http://reasontraditionandliberty.blogspot.com/2009 ... - amy31415, on 03/07/2009, -22/+119This makes Israel's intentions pretty clear, no?
- inactive, on 03/07/2009, -35/+102Yet another example of how the zionist supremacists are the genuine menace in the M.E. I'm no fan of the Iranian leadership, but they don't pull ***** like this, and most definitely don't do it with our USA tax dollars.
- Bronnster, on 03/07/2009, -20/+80...and nothing will be done...again.
- israelifascist, on 03/07/2009, -27/+79FTA: "The document says Israel has accelerated its plans for East Jerusalem, and is undermining the Palestinian Authority's credibility and weakening support for peace talks. "Israel's actions in and around Jerusalem constitute one of the most acute challenges to Israeli-Palestinian peace-making," says the document, EU Heads of Mission Report on East Jerusalem.
The report, obtained by the Guardian, is dated 15 December 2008. It acknowledges Israel's legitimate security concerns in Jerusalem, but adds: "Many of its current illegal actions in and around the city have limited security justifications."
"Israeli 'facts on the ground' - including new settlements, construction of the barrier, discriminatory housing policies, house demolitions, restrictive permit regime and continued closure of Palestinian institutions - increase Jewish Israeli presence in East Jerusalem, weaken the Palestinian community in the city, impede Palestinian urban development and separate East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank," the report says." - HelpersHelper, on 03/07/2009, -20/+61Whilst spiritual Zionism may be perfectly acceptable, political Zionism (which is being well described by this article) is not.
In the 20th and 21st centuries, the only legitimate claim which people have to a land is that they live there and have been living there for a very very long time and not that they used to live there a very long time ago. Using a wide range of black-hat tactics, such as those mentioned in this article, political Zionism has tried to bypass this sole claim to land and then change the facts of the ground so that Palestinian's can no longer lay the same claim to it.
Fortunately for the Palestinians, the world is full of peace & justice loving people, and it is only a matter of time before they wake up to the reality of what has, and continues to be, going on and mobilise to demand a fair peace; something the political Zionists did not think about when they adopted lies, theft and oppression as their approach to land acquisition. - sheeplescareme, on 03/07/2009, -19/+59little wonder that us and israeli leaders get along so well.
- Robjayne, on 03/07/2009, -7/+43Yep!
- Demand911Truth, on 03/07/2009, -22/+53FTA:
The EU report goes further, saying that the demolitions are "illegal under international law, serve no obvious purpose, have severe humanitarian effects, and fuel bitterness and extremism."
I'm sick of hearing about Zionist atrocities. The world needs to ACT! - HelpersHelper, on 03/07/2009, -18/+45@wpi97
As Zionism does everything in the name of Jews, one can only expect that it is the Jews who will suffer the consequences. This is obviously wrong, but it is the obvious consequence.
Furthering on from the points you mentioned, assuming your Jews-being-in-majority facts are correct, it is clear that between 1910 and 1967 a major change of attitude towards the Jewish people took place. In 1910, the Arabs/Muslims were more than happy to let Jewish people living amongst them in such numbers, yet in 1967 they were committing the atrocities you mentioned.
So what brought about this change in attitude? Perhaps the grand theft of Palestinian land and the ethnic cleansing of its population might help to explain. - tgc1, on 03/08/2009, -17/+43The world will only start to try and act once Palestine is no longer there. Israel is taking over and the rest of the world is sitting on its thumbs. What pisses me off more than anything is the way Israel tries to make itself look so innocent. Like they're not strategically pushing native Palestinians farther and farther away. Creating segregation, erecting walls, etc... And Israel wonders why they get rockets shot into their territory? Well *****, if most of the territory you claim is yours was actually Palestinian, you have no right to complain.
I mean how many jewish-only neighborhoods have they erected over there? Meanwhile demolishing the Palestinians houses, in some cases, while they're still in them! As far as i'm concerned, Israel can go ***** itself.
Again, I have nothing against Jews in general, because i've met quite a few and they're overall nice people like the rest of us. But i'm referring mostly to the younger crowd because it seems the jewish elders hold steadfast to their traditions. Young people, not so much. However, Israel taking this type of action is really not making the Jewish populations around the world look good. It's casting the rest of you all in a bad light. Which is why i'm hoping that you guys can start to tell Israel how insane it is being. Just as most of America told Bush how much of a wacko he was with this going into Afghanistan and Iraq thing.
Come on guys, I know you can do it. Don't stand behind these crazy people. They are standing behind their religion to push these people out. I'm pretty sure when Moses lead the Jews out of Egypt he didn't really have this sort of behavior in mind. If scripture is anything to go by. Then again, i'm not religious at all. But for those who look to your books for guidance, that's what I mean. - beautifulady, on 03/07/2009, -9/+34They act with impunity, knowing that so long as the US is their special friend, they will never suffer a consequence such as sanctions, nor will they be booted out of the UN. The whole idea is to push the Palestinians into Jordan and Lebanon, or anywhere else, and deny any real responsibility for it.
- corrosion, on 03/08/2009, -11/+34It is a new? You didn't know Israel is annexing territories illegally?
- cunne, on 03/08/2009, -2/+25Illegal under international law? Watch out Israel, the U.N. is going to shake its finger at you :(
- nepse70, on 03/07/2009, -24/+44ass holes,,,,,(
but do they care,,,ever what eu,ore anyone else then us say"s? - chthonical, on 03/08/2009, -9/+28What's hilariously tragic is that Israel is creating more antisemitism and resentment against the Jewish people than any of their enemies could have ever accomplished.
- rhabd0mancer, on 03/07/2009, -10/+28>>It is psychological warfare, acts like cutting down ancient olive groves are planned to impart a sense of utter defeat.
And acts like this:
http://www.kawther.info/K20040513A.html
"A Bucket full of ***** left by IDF soldiers occupying a roof in Hebron. Buckets like this
one are routinely emptied in the water tanks on Palestinian roofs by the soldiers." - manicdvln, on 03/08/2009, -24/+39I guess the next step would be a "final solution" for the Palestinian issue. It seems Israelis have learned a lot from the Germans.
- ammaryou, on 03/07/2009, -19/+34http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
- bonmot5, on 04/08/2009, -7/+22But so, so typical.
City officials dismissed criticisms of it's housing policy as a "disinformation campaign." They are very good at "dismissing criticisms" instead of addressing criticisms of everything that they do...and so the small voices of criticism that ARE able to get through, for the most part, are not even heard, or worse yet, are drowned out by the mighty propaganda machine that runs full throttle 24/7. - ciaran036, on 03/08/2009, -3/+17Sickening...
- inactive, on 03/07/2009, -16/+30http://www.libertystickers.com/product/You-paid-is ...
- inactive, on 03/07/2009, -6/+19They definitely don't get along so well with our people. Our leaders, on the other hand, seem perfectly content to borrow billions of dollars every year on the national credit card and give it to Israel, warm with the knowledge that a few million of it will flow back into their hands as campaign donations before the next election.
- jeepster76, on 03/08/2009, -4/+17Are you really trying to insinuate that all of EUROPE is antisemetic, therefore we should dismiss this article from a London based newspaper?
Look, please, PLEASE just ignore your megaphone next time OK? This is the dumbest thing I have heard all night, and I've been reading this thread for the past hour or so. - inactive, on 03/08/2009, -9/+22Talk about historical revisionism.
Newsflash: Israel annexed East Jerusalem in 1967 folks.
The Palestinians annexed Gaza, which is Egyptian territory, for themselves too, big whoopedy do. - waydee, on 03/08/2009, -2/+14Yes yes, we know the Israelis don't much care for the British press and their habit of reporting on events that don't always make Israel look either good or an innocent victim. The rest of the world seems to appreciate it though and sees straight through attempts to discredit or disprove such reporting by childish cries of anti-semitism.
- HelpersHelper, on 03/07/2009, -6/+18@IsraeliFascist - The topic of discussion is not Gaza.
- inactive, on 03/07/2009, -9/+20"Fortunately for the Palestinians, the world is full of peace & justice loving people, and it is only a matter of time before they wake up to the reality of what has, and continues to be, going on and mobilise to demand a fair peace"
That's difficult to expect, given the extent to which the Israeli state department goes to influence the Western news and entertainment media, and the deference the corporate media owners and producers show the 300 or so large Jewish-Zionist organizations. Hell, what percentage of the people know that the "intelligence" promulgated to support the destruction of Iraq was cobbled together by Israeli agents within the Israeli state dept. and the OSP *outside of intelligence and military channels*, or that it was simply a rehash of a 1990s Israeli program to destroy the Middle East and make it beholden to Israel? - inactive, on 03/07/2009, -7/+18That's the way it works. If younwant something from Washington the first thing to do is to see how you can finance political sampaigns with big money
People don't understand this. Like the drug legalization movement. None of the stoners have figured out that they have to design a way to channel millions into poltical war chests.
And if course the Palestinians don't understand this component of "democracy" either - beautifulady, on 03/07/2009, -7/+18One hand soils the other.
- HelpersHelper, on 03/08/2009, -2/+13I apologise for suggesting that you sucked me into a debate, for I should have said, "I apologise for allowing myself to be sucked into it."
Also, with regards to your prayer, that is perfectly agreeable to me and I say Amen to it.
All the best. - bonmot5, on 04/08/2009, -10/+20A perfect example of this is the bloodbath that took place in Gaza last month. Reading the pro-Israel BS about why the IDF was at their wits end as to what to do, they just had no choice but to level the whole city. Kill all. Those poor guys, the Palestinians made them do it.
To quote Victor Ostrovsky, in "By Way Of Deception" " The intifada and resultant breakdown of moral order and humanity are a direct result of the kind of megalomania that characterizes the operation of the Mossad. That's where it all begins. This feeling that you can do anything you want to whomever you want for as long as you want because you have the power. Israel is facing it's biggest threat ever. This thing is uncontrollable. In Israel, they're still beating Palestinians, and Shamir says, "They're making us become cruel. They're forcing us to hit children, Aren't they terrible?" This is what happens after years and years of secrecy; of "we're right, no matter what...of justifying violence and inhumanity through deceit, or, as the Mossad logo says: "by way of deception." It's a disease that began with the Mossad and has spread through government and down through much of Israeli society. There are large elements inside Israel who are protesting this slide, but their voices are not being heard. And with each step down, it gets easier to repeat, and more difficult to stop." - jeepster76, on 03/08/2009, -5/+15uh, how about this one:
"Look you peice of ***** retards your so called "innocent poor palestinians" kill jewish men women AND CHILDREN ON A DAILY BASIS and not to mention SEND THEIR OWN CHILDREN TO BOMB THEMSELFS IN HOPES OF KILLING MORE WOMEN AND CHILDREN while THEY ASK FOR PEACE NEGOTIATIONS.
Come live in israel and we will see how long you morn for the "poor" palestinians you human scums" - MrHappyMan, on 03/08/2009, -6/+16"Isn't this all land that Israel ended up with after being attacked by Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan and Iraq?"
Yeah you can just conveniently forget that Israel was the first one to attack in 67 when it gained these territories in the first place.
"Stealing what? "
Your response effectively says "the strong did what they could and the weak suffered what they must". The people of the West Bank are conquered and must submit to the whim of their masters. What a sad way of looking at things. What a pathetic human being you are. - beautifulady, on 03/07/2009, -7/+17I agree with HelpersHelper that we have to be optimistic. Just keep on making noise about what is happening. Don't get bored with it, don't drop it. If no one speaks out, it implies assent. This is the only way we can help Palestine to survive. Otherwise, what is left of it will certainly disappear.
- beautifulady, on 03/08/2009, -3/+13I had read that when the settlers were kicked out of Gaza, upon departure they fouled the water wells, tore down fences and destroyed houses and greenhouses.
About a month ago I posted an article and video about how the IDF trashed people's homes and when they returned, they found excrement and urine on everything from clothing to their food and their children's toys.
To debase and humiliate the enemy this way is not new, but it is no less reprehensible. Young, emotionally immature lowlife thugs don't know how to behave with dignity, and they cannot grasp that their actions actually harm themselves more. - Cthulhu2008, on 03/08/2009, -2/+11I support Israel, but the one thing i do not support is them increasing the settlements. its just a stupid and bad idea. it achives nothing but giving people justification to continue to hate Israel. Its because no matter who is in charge on both sides, the Palestinian people end up suffering the most.
- chadarizona, on 03/08/2009, -1/+10Evidence?
- lemur, on 03/08/2009, -1/+10This is a great calamity. All good people on Earth must stand together in opposition to imperialism and territorial expansion. Enough wars have been fought and enough innocent people have lost their lives to this evil work already. It wasn't OK for Germany to invade Poland (holocaust or no holocaust), and it's not OK for Israel to invade Palestine, slowly or quickly. I am Polish; my mother land has been wiped off the map more than once and denied a nationality for over a hundred years. We must not let the people of Palestine suffer this fate at the hands of racist, bigoted minority rule. We Americans stood for freedom, liberty, and justice for all--we stood for peace, democracy, and political representation in our government--to have a voice. Who will give Palestine a voice, whose children are dying? What are we standing for now?
- wpi97, on 03/08/2009, -7/+16"Come on now- you can't seriously believe that the corrupt UN gives a rat's ass about the people who were already living on that land."
So, apparently the UN is corrupt only when it votes to establish Israel, but not when it puts Syria in charge of human rights, or turns a conference on racism into a Jew-bashing fest. In 1948 the UN had not existed long enough to become as corrupt as it is today.
As far as people already living on the land, Jews have lived in present-day Israel continuously for the past 3000 years. Not to mention that first Jordan was split off from the British Mandate Palestine in 1919, creating an Arab state where Jews by law are not allowed to hold citizenship, and then what was left of Palestine was split again.
"And it would have been one thing if Israel has remained within it's original borders, but it has not."
It was attacked numerous times, and it beat back the attackers capturing land in the process. Why was it ok for the US to annex half of Mexico (the present-day states of Texas, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada and Utah) after winning the US-Mexican war? Why was it ok for the USSR to gain huge chunks of territory after winning WWII? Why was it ok for Jordan to annex the West Bank in 1948, and for Egypt to capture Gaza? Why weren't these countries punished for their "theft of land?"
I have news for you. When you start a war and lose it, chances are good that you will lose some real estate in the process.
Unlike the US, the USSR, or Jordan, Israel gave up territory in hope of achieving peace. It gave the Sinai back to Egypt, and it forcibly evicted its own citizens from Gaza, who lived there for over 30 years.
"Then they bomb the people living in poverty in the neighboring ghetto- with illegal chemical weapons, no less!"
Chemical weapons? What's next, you are going to say that Israel has nuked Gaza?
Up until this point I thought I could have some semblance of a reasonable debate with you, despite your username. Now you are just making ***** up. - omega09, on 03/08/2009, -2/+10Good info.
- chadarizona, on 03/08/2009, -1/+9How is that any different from the IDF bulldozing your home with you inside? Israel can just afford better weapons, that is the difference
- tobor0, on 03/08/2009, -4/+12"In 1910, the Arabs/Muslims were more than happy to let Jewish people living amongst them in such numbers, yet in 1967 they were committing the atrocities you mentioned."
What is your justification for this claim? You may want to look up a guy named Amin Husayni, the Mufti of Jerusalem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husa ... - yonoz, on 03/08/2009, -3/+11Wow, what a novel approach!!!
- worldorder, on 03/08/2009, -8/+16This is probably the best video I have ever seen on how things really are on the ground.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-660477589 ...
Watch it - get educated. - inactive, on 03/08/2009, -10/+18http://www.knesset.gov.il/elections/knesset15/elik ...
The Likud charter
" The Palestinians
Declaration of a State
A unilateral Palestinian declaration of the establishment of a Palestinian state will constitute a fundamental and substantive violation of the agreements with the State of Israel and the scuttling of the Oslo and Wye accords. The government will adopt immediate stringent measures in the event of such a declaration.
Settlements
The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting. "
Pro-Israel groups will complain this is out of date charter... its the only one listed on the site in English. - Cthulhu2008, on 03/08/2009, -2/+9@mike: well as someone who is from the Good Old USA i would say you do not represent everyone there. while there are many Jews do not live in Israel and live in the United States a lot of them support Israel like myself, and a very few are like you. and who is the "we" that wants to take the magen david off the flag. lemme tell you something i have been to pro-israeli rallies where there are thousands of Jews waving that flag proudly. So i think that "we" you are talking about is actually a "me"
- Kadayi, on 03/08/2009, -6/+13Yes we are all raging Antisemites naturally. No Houses were demolished at all, we Europeans just 'imagined' it yes?
But what does it matter after all, the Palestinians aren't true humans anyway right? God gave the land to the Israelites as his chosen people over all others. To take it back by any means necessary is wholly justified no? - Cthulhu2008, on 03/08/2009, -3/+10@wpi and Helpershelper: i applaud your debate. its good to see some intelligence on here once in a while, instead of the posts like "***** Israel or Israelis are the new nazis" or "***** Palestine. your debate has brightened up my day a little.
- inactive, on 03/08/2009, -5/+12What a lie. Arab mobs and riots in the 1920s and 30s and the massacre killing of Jews cold-blooded in the streets led to the creation of the Irgun which gave rise to Israel.
The original Jewish settlers did not want war or to steal someone's land, they were mostly families who had gone through persecutions in Europe and were meek people as it is, no it was Arab greed that refused to share their land with these people when most of the Arab landlords were gone and the territory was deserted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Tiberias_massacr ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots -
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