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Independence Day: Let Us Remember Who We Are watch!

youtube.com — Kucinich's fourth of July impeachment message.

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  • Journeywithinn, on 07/04/2008, -6/+88I don't know why, cause this is a great message from a man who cares about a document that has served our country well for centuries, as is being attacked by our current administration with NO doubt.
  • yellowcakewalk, on 07/04/2008, -7/+71We'll be at the White House TODAY July 4 reading Dennis' Articles of Impeachment to the busloads of tourists. Join us if you are in town, starting at 2PM.
    http://yellowcakewalk.net
    • amightywind, on 07/06/2008, -6/+1Has anyone told you that we are winning in Iraq, and that President Bush's decisions are fully vindicated?
      • sjm20k, on 07/06/2008, -1/+3i think you forgot to book your return ticket from apologetic fantasyland.
  • brad3378, on 07/04/2008, -4/+48I don't have a problem signing the petition ( http://impeachment.kucinich.us/petition/ )
    but do they really need my email address?
    • Stryder81, on 07/04/2008, -1/+14I'm sure it's to keep you posted on what exactly is going on.

      Remember that this is the internet age, the way they ask for your number it makes sense to ask for your e-mail.
    • TsuruchiBrian, on 07/05/2008, -2/+2They have to have some way of notifying you if it works (i.e. Bush gets impeached)
    • Kappa3, on 07/05/2008, -2/+6yes, we may not actually know he got impeached unless we get that email
    • BillDoE, on 07/05/2008, -2/+3It was better than having to leave them my phone number. I have like ten email addresses after all. What's the BFD? After donating for Ron Paul, I now get phone calls from the GOP. Thanks Ron..NOT.
    • obliviousfool, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1I actually like Kucinich's e-mail updates, but I've been getting them for a while now.
  • King0007, on 07/04/2008, -5/+55Stop the attack on IRAN!!
  • cyndezu, on 07/04/2008, -5/+67"I will personally deliver to members of congress" Kucinich = Integrity
  • Todash19, on 07/04/2008, -5/+88I spent my 4th of July signing a petition to impeach our lying president.

    How's that for Patriotism...
    • TinternAbbot, on 07/05/2008, -0/+11It took you an entire day to sign a petition?
      • Harmatia, on 07/05/2008, -0/+24You can thank 'No Child Left Behind' for that.
    • skinnyskittles, on 07/05/2008, -0/+26patriotism is protecting your country from your government
    • Corrosionx, on 07/05/2008, -9/+4I'm tired of people calling the holiday "The 4th of July"
      • themonkman, on 07/05/2008, -0/+4I don't know why people are digging you down. The 4th of July should be respected and called it's true name; Independence Day. It was the day that the world heard a shot that would echo through the course as history as a day the American People stood against the tyranny of Britain in lieu of insurmountable odds and almost self assured destruction for the Freedoms of which we hold closest to our hearts.
      • Corrosionx, on 07/05/2008, -0/+4Because deep down they know, the Independance is dead.
    • thcobbs, on 07/05/2008, -5/+1Its a very patriotic thing to do. But you lose points being so asinine about it.

      One of the greatest rights of an American Citizen is to criticize, rebuke, and take steps to see a wrong done by the government righted. But shoving your action in someone's face and declaring "How's that for Patriotism" diminishes your act a great deal.

      The best way to forward you goal is to present your argument simply, clearly, and without malice or vitriol. Then you will get people who aren't already in agreement with you to listen to your views and at least consider them. Remember that in America, the fringes don't get you anything... its convincing the hard-working average joe that you've got something to say that makes a difference.
  • Stryder81, on 07/04/2008, -5/+68Kucinich is one of the few who says " Fu** off " in a subtle way. I love this guy, he's the bulldog of the house.
    • thcobbs, on 07/05/2008, -1/+3Last I checked bulldogs whether real or figurative are anything but subtle.
    • JonGalt, on 07/05/2008, -10/+2More like the wothless chicken ***** of the house.
  • SaraLiberty, on 08/16/2008, -4/+41we have been divided
    and we have been conquered...

    "Patriotism means to stand by your country. To protect your Constitution, hard won liberty and privacy rights. It does not mean to blindly stand by the president or any other public official."

    'there used to be a me behind the
    mask, but i had it surgically removed.'
    -- peter sellers

    Freedom is only a hallucination that shows at the edges of places you go when you dream.
  • sphira, on 07/04/2008, -6/+27"we have been divided
    and we have been conquered..." - YEP

    Aurelio Peccei, Club of Rome founder and Committee of 300 member, in his book "The Chasm Ahead” writes about the Committee of 300’s plans to “tame” the common man whom he refers to as "The Enemy.” "Why should I concern myself with how many die? Even the Christian Bible says what is man that God should be mindful of him? For me men are nothing but a brain at one end and a ***** factory at the other." -Aurellio Peccei

    Some notable members of the Committee of 300 include: The British royal family, Dutch royal family, House of Hapsburg, House of Orange, Duke of Alba, Prince Philip Duke of Edinburgh, Lord Carrington, Lord Halifax, Lord Alfred Milner, John Jacob and Waldorf of the Astor Illuminati bloodline, Winston Churchill, Cecil Rhodes, Queen Elizabeth II, Queen Juliana, Queen Beatrix, Queen Magreta, King Haakon of Norway, Colonel Mandel House, Aldous Huxley, John Forbes, Averill Harriman, William and McGeorge Bundy, George Bush, Prescott Bush, Henry Kissinger, J.P. Morgan, Maurice Strong, David Rockefeller, David and Evelyn Rothschild, Paul, Max and Felix Warburg, Ormsby and Al Gore, Bertrand Russell, Sir Earnest and Harry of the Oppenheimer Illuminati bloodline, Warren Buffet, Giuseppe Mazzini, Sir William Hesse, George Schultz, H.G. Wells, and Ted Turner In the Committee of 300, which has a 150-year history, we have some of the most brilliant intellects assembled to form a completely totalitarian, absolutely controlled ‘new’ society only it isn't new, having drawn most of its ideas from the Clubs of Cultus Diabolicus. It strives toward a One World Government rather well described by one of its late members, H. G. Wells, in his work commissioned by the Committee which Wells boldly called: ‘The Open Conspiracy: Blue Prints for a World Revolution.’” -John Coleman, “Conspirators’ Hierarchy”

    Authors such as H.G. Wells and Aldous Huxley were not speculating or warning of the future societies they wrote about. In fact they were often commissioned to write such “predictive programming” books based on the Committee’s actual plans. People read something like “A Brave New World” and create an imaginary science-fiction rift between their present reality and what seems like a possible future. Meanwhile, the royals, the Committee of 300, the elite pushers and movers incrementally implement measures toward those very controlled sci-fi societies.


    • lazerus9, on 07/04/2008, -1/+6Good post Sphira!

      Now that we know Peccei's s**t factory part of the human equation , lets work to get the brain half of humanity into positions of leadership!
      • sphira, on 07/05/2008, -1/+5L9 - Happy Independence Day
        (renewed Independence sometime soon we hope),
        Agreed - WE need Super-Patriots!
        I'm sure you would appreciate this info source that I referenced above. I have checked a few facts for accuracy and it has a wealth of information - 400+pgs
        http://www.scribd.com/doc/2567299/EliteConspiracyT ...
  • sportsstar67, on 07/05/2008, -46/+3This midget ***** Kucinich is still pissed he couldn't even garner 1% in the primaries...They ran his sorry ass out of Cleveland....The only thing he has ever accomplished is getting a hot wife (Probably paying her for sex)....Go away Dennis The Menace, you tried to pull this ***** before and came up empty..You should move to Mars with your UFO buddies
    • floatingorb, on 07/05/2008, -2/+26You should consider not storing the football up your ass during the whole of baseball season.
  • SolidEnder, on 07/05/2008, -1/+19I want everyone to remember why...they...need...us!
    • Albumen, on 07/05/2008, -0/+3Dugg for the V for Vendetta reference
  • k3ndal1, on 07/05/2008, -2/+7Why not just make your webbernets moniker "MeatHead69". Is it the capital letters?
  • SlimFastForYou, on 07/05/2008, -2/+34 When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

    Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
    • tufftugg, on 07/05/2008, -0/+2 Hearsay, you will conform!!
    • themonkman, on 07/05/2008, -0/+2Thank you for posting our Declaration of Independence. More people should read it and honor it.
  • kd420, on 07/05/2008, -3/+69I'm a Canadian, and after taking an American History class I know why people say America is the best country in the world. Not because of money, innovation or whatever. It's because of how it was founded; common sense, libertarian, egalitarian principles. And now it has been tarnished by the big corporations and phony politicians. Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich and others like them are the modern-day founding fathers. They have nobility and loyalty to their country that most of the politicians today can only dream about.

    Impeach Bush, not just for America, but to give everyone else in the world hope, people like me included. Hope; that a nation based on such noble principles, such fundamental simplicity and elegance isn't run into the ground due to greed, dishonesty and malice.
    • floatingorb, on 07/05/2008, -1/+6It's not so much "most of the politicians today can only dream about" as much as what is invoked by your sentiment and ours -- It is an ongoing and vivid *nightmare* for most of them every night!
    • thrive868, on 07/05/2008, -1/+15Thank You.
    • JonGalt, on 07/05/2008, -8/+2Ron Paul and Dennis kucinich have ZERO in common. That like saying that rocks are as healthy for you as apples.

      Ones a socialist scumbag.
      Ones a libertarian in a republican costume.

      And you're an ***** for not recognizing that regardless if you were talking about "how they fight the establishment".

      As for America not being great because of "money, innovation or whatever", actually that is the result of why this country is great. Its called individual rights which includes the right to own property with very little government interaction besides to protect that.

      Greed shouldn't be in the same sentence as "dishonesty and malice". You have a lot to learn. Keep taking classes.
      • floatingorb, on 07/05/2008, -0/+4"ZERO in common?" Really? They consistently have voted together to uphold constitutional principles, thus standing together to protect liberty; Find the only two 'nay' votes on many issues and it is Kucinich and Paul. -- That would be My dream ticket in a dream world not ruled by ...er..., well, just go prop up your crackhead CFR/NWO tool Obama on a thread that is appropriate to do so. There. Fixed it for ya.
  • onetimer, on 07/05/2008, -40/+12Why would I listen to what Koo-Koo-Kucinich says about "independence"? This leftist wants to trample over our second amendment rights, as well as trying to socialize everything he can get his hands on. He is a hypocrite to be talking about independence.
    • maxtangent, on 07/05/2008, -5/+21Notice how onetimer criticizes Kucinich, but will back Bush no matter what rights Bush tramples over.
      Two-faced ring a bell?
      • onetimer, on 07/05/2008, -17/+5When have I ever backed Bush (which I don't) you liar? Are you trying to deny that Kucinich is a proponent of unconstitutional legislation?
      • maxtangent, on 07/05/2008, -4/+10And here I thought I was being so nice by not pointing out onetimer's use of the 'Poisoning the Well' logical fallacy.

        Regardless, I may be mistaken about his Bush backing, but since I believed it to be true, I am not a liar:
        does it not seem Hypocritical of him to accuse me of lying when he purposely misrepresents the truth himself?

      • metapop, on 07/05/2008, -1/+11maxtangent, here is what onetimer does- criticizes everyone and supports no one. his comment makes him sound like a ron paul supporter talking about not wanting to "socialize everything" or "trample over our second amendment rights"... yet during the ron paul glory days about 6 months ago, i fought many a comment battle with him on ron paul articles. this makes onetimer a troll... or perhaps he's seen the light about ron paul? (now that it's too late)
      • bumb1ebee, on 07/05/2008, -6/+3Why don't you argue onetimer's valid point about Kucinich's blatant disregard for the 2nd amendment instead of using ad hominem attacks?
      • NorthMass, on 07/05/2008, -1/+4Onetimer, if you care so0o0oo0o0 much about the constitution then how come you continually BASH RON PAUL?!?!?!
      • Caffeinate, on 07/06/2008, -0/+2Onetimer, you support and defend Bush every single chance you get. You deride anyone that criticizes Bush. It takes all of 5 seconds to look at your post history and see that.
    • BoonTobias, on 07/05/2008, -13/+6 a great comedian once said: you do realize that the second ammendment is completely useless, right? In today's world, it doesn't even make sense, having weapons won't save you from anything if the govt wants to get you.

      Anyone who seriously believes in the second ammendment should be headshot like all the religious dumbasses that are ***** up this nation and elsewhere
    • BrapAllgood, on 07/05/2008, -6/+7"This leftist"

      Another bigoted statement, onetimer. When you draw a line down the middle of your world and declare you are on THIS side and 'they' are on THAT side, the crazy kooks...well, you are a bigot. As much as you run around here raving about people's supposed bigotry, I'd think you might spend some time understanding the concept of bigotry. So far, I have been disappointed. So far, you have been deliberately obtuse on the subject.
    • theiss, on 07/05/2008, -2/+17I love how these posts always include some derogatory name, in this case "Koo-Koo-Kucinich". Just shows off their brainwashed, group mentality.

      You know what? I can't stand Bush. Know what I call him? Bush.

      If you *really* want to be taken seriously, try talking like someone who doesn't have their eyeballs popping out of their head and spittle flying out of their mouth.
    • pintomp3, on 07/05/2008, -2/+13as opposed to the "rightists" who want to trample on the first and fourth amendments? the "rightists" who want to suspend habeas corpus? i've noticed you are also against ron paul. you seem to be against anyone who doesn't want to continue giving israel billions of dollars every year.
    • xsquirrel378x, on 07/05/2008, -3/+3wow no wonder theres so many people on digg that hate you. gb2 the holy land
  • TinternAbbot, on 07/05/2008, -20/+3Egomaniac.
    • Caffeinate, on 07/06/2008, -0/+2Yes, Bush certainly is an egomaniac.
  • kookbutt, on 07/05/2008, -27/+2Hey ***** nut. You know Congress has a lower approval rating than Bush right now. How about get off the TV talking about impeachment and Freedom and stop being corrupt and fix the economy, fix the budget and lower gas prices. Because until you do that, then all that is coming out of your mouth is a bunch of BS and lies.
    • skinnyskittles, on 07/05/2008, -0/+10government can't fix the economy by legislating, they must delegislate
      • kookbutt, on 07/05/2008, -5/+1Last time I checked Kucinich is part of the legislature but he has done absolutely nothing except for getting on TV and grandstand for you idiots that get taken in by verbose speeches. Boy, you guys will by anything from a quick talking politician.
      • NorthMass, on 07/05/2008, -0/+3Last time I checked Kucinich and Ron Paul each have one vote in the House, so when the vote is 433-0 and its time for Ron and Dennis to vote and make it 433-2, there isn't much they can do. You see their vote doesn't count as 200 votes, which is what you must assume because that is what it would take for Kucinich and Paul's bills to ever be passed because our congress sucks and Ron and Dennis don't suck.
    • Jimmerz, on 07/05/2008, -0/+4It's just possible that if congress got off their asses and did something about Bush, as Kucinich suggests, everything else would follow and their approval ratings would go up. But they don't, and therein lies my contempt for them as a whole.
      • kookbutt, on 07/05/2008, -3/+1But Kucinich hasn't gotten off of his ass to do anything. All he has done is grandstand in front of the TV reporters and done absolutely nothing. Actions speak louder than words and all he has done is set up meaningless committees to "study" the problem which really means he has done nothing.
  • Liqkhaos, on 07/05/2008, -0/+21He wants us to demand that all the people who are supposed to protect our Constitution actually do. So, does that mean we can call for the impeachment of all our Senators and Representatives too?
    • anamcara87, on 07/05/2008, -0/+5I'm not sure if the Senators or Representatives swear to protect and uphold the Constitution. If they do, then the answer is 'yes'.
    • franktruth, on 07/05/2008, -4/+0Democrats are no more serious about prosecuting Articles of impeachment in 2008 than Republican Senators were willing to hear or view evidence supporting impeachment of Clinton in 1998. Why not? Because neither side of the aisle can stand constitutional scrutiny of their own behavior.

      Why should Democrats impeach a lame duck president with an abysmal approval rating? Besides, the so-called lie (weapons of mass destruction) upon which Kuchinich bases his cause for impeachment former President Clinton and Al Gore told the American public Saddam Hussein was using on the Kurds. (Which the whole world knew was happening in 1998, but our media found it convenient to deny in 2003.)

      The real cause for impeachment is The Federal Reserve, Patriot Acts I and II, and the fiat creation of Homeland Security. While the Afghan and Iraqi invasions should be impeachable offenses, Congress was an informed, willing accomplice. So Congress will not impeach itself.

      Kuchinch's call for impeachment is one sorry display of posturing. He knows there's no will for Congress or the media to perfect impeachment. The tragedy of the whole thing is that Bush, Kuchinich, Obama, Hillary and McCain should all be impeached, prosecuted for concealing and promoting theft by the Federal Reserve. But the media will make sure that crimes of the FED will forever go uncovered and unprosecuted.

      Don't fall for Kuchinich's hypocrisy!
  • leontes, on 07/05/2008, -3/+12In less than an hour, aircraft from here will join others from around the world. And you will be launching the largest aerial battle in the history of mankind. "Mankind." That word should have new meaning for all of us today. We can't be consumed by our petty differences anymore. We will be united in our common interests. Perhaps it's fate that today is the Fourth of July, and you will once again be fighting for our freedom... Not from tyranny, oppression, or persecution... but from annihilation. We are fighting for our right to live. To exist. And should we win the day, the Fourth of July will no longer be known as an American holiday, but as the day the world declared in one voice: "We will not go quietly into the night!" We will not vanish without a fight! We're going to live on! We're going to survive! Today we celebrate our Independence Day!
    • khoa1708, on 07/05/2008, -0/+0I saw... its thoughts. I saw what they're planning to do. They're like locusts. They're moving from planet to planet... their whole civilization. After they've consumed every natural resource they move on... and we're next. Nuke 'em. Let's nuke the bastards.
  • gauge5577, on 07/05/2008, -10/+4No matter how much I want to beleive in people like Kucinich or Paul, Something in the back of my head keeps telling me they would not be around if they really stood for change. If these type of people want the support of the people they need to start taking action. Wasting time with impeachment is just silly we all know that will never pass as long as bush has a veto pen.
    • carynyao, on 07/05/2008, -0/+5And what have you done to change thing?
    • anamcara87, on 07/05/2008, -0/+4The problem is getting other politicians to stand with them. One or two guys standing up for what is right won't accomplish anything if their colleagues continue to put their tails between their legs.
    • AGsilver, on 07/05/2008, -0/+9Some information from wiki:
      Kucinich voted against the USA PATRIOT Act, against the Military Commissions Act of 2006, and was one of six who voted against the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Act.

      In 2005, he voted against the Iran Freedom and Support Act, calling it a "stepping stone to war"

      Kucinich has also strongly opposed space-based weapons and has sponsored legislation, HR 2977, banning the deployment and use of space-based weapons.

      Kucinich and Ron Paul are the only two congressional representatives who voted against the Rothman-Kirk Resolution, which calls on the United Nations to charge Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with violating the genocide convention of the United Nations Charter based on statements that he has made.

      Kucinich held a press conference on the evening of April 24, 2007, revealing US House Resolution 333 and the three articles of impeachment against Cheney

      On September 29, 2004, he introduced H.R. 5155, the Free Market Drug Act; a system where the National Institutes of Health would fund research, thus disconnecting the manufacturing of drugs from research and increasing competition among private manufacturers.
  • iamtenninjas, on 07/05/2008, -1/+14I was hoping this would be posted on Digg when I saw it yesterday and signed the petition.

    Dugg for real patriotism. (Not to devalue blowing ***** up.)
  • UKLooney, on 07/05/2008, -1/+12The wolves have taken control of your country, your population have been brainwashed with propaganda that Goering would have been proud of. But hey, isn't Britney in rehab again?
    What comes around, goes around...
  • mickstephenson, on 07/05/2008, -3/+3"Let Us Remember Who We Are" - ***** who couldn't make in over in Europe, so decided to move to the USA where the neighbours will hopefully be stupider than you?
    (Just kidding, Happy Birthday for yesterday)
  • carynyao, on 07/05/2008, -1/+5I want to facebook Congressman Kucinich!
  • tufftugg, on 07/05/2008, -0/+12 America started good, but now is a kleptocracy.
  • Corrosionx, on 07/05/2008, -3/+10There's no independance anymore. The United States have been reconquered by England and the Vatican about 100 years ago, they have put their central banks here and they have completely taken over the government.

    Where's that freedom you are supposed to be celebrating?
  • 3leggedHorse, on 07/05/2008, -4/+4Europe is the stinking pool of ***** that caused two world wars. America has not ***** up that much yet. Happy birthday for yesterday.
    • blackjack75, on 07/05/2008, -0/+3you... seem... to have forgotten the "just kidding" part.
      • brightlight4, on 07/05/2008, -1/+2EUROPEANS HAVE MORE DAMN FREEDOM THAN YOU CRAZY AMERICANS!!!! American hasn't ***** up that much yet!! You MUST be joking!! On your way to a Fascist country and trying to cause another war by invading Iran given half the chance and with a brainless President who doesn't even know where Europe is!!!! PLEEEEEEEEEEASEEEEEEEEEE go educate yourself!!!
      • andrew1193, on 07/06/2008, -0/+1"EUROPEANS HAVE MORE DAMN FREEDOM THAN YOU CRAZY AMERICANS!!!!"

        Such as?
  • londubh, on 07/05/2008, -12/+2Wouldn't you like to see Dennis Kucinich hot oil wrestle Ron Paul?
    • Caffeinate, on 07/06/2008, -0/+1You want to see two old men naked and wrestling? You must be a Republican. A lot of your sort have those kind of fantasies.
  • mahsah, on 07/05/2008, -4/+12As a Libertarian (from Ohio), I can't say I agree with Kucinich on Gun Control, as well as some other issues, but I think that if America is destined to become more Socialist, he would be the one to do it with the least violations of Civil Liberties.
    • insurgente, on 07/05/2008, -4/+2What civil liberties do socialists want to trample on? Free trade? Private property?

      Free trade and private property are anti-democratic and are not civil liberties, but bourgeois "liberties".

      Oh, and Kucinich is not a socialist. And you are not a libertarian, but simply a statist market fundamentalist.
      • Corrosionx, on 07/05/2008, -1/+4Even the poorest of the poor benefit from free trade and private property.

        You're telling me that to trade freely and in a mutually satisfying way with my fellow man without government intervention and keep the fruits of my labor are "bourgeois liberties"?

        Socialism is ALWAYS used to impose government control. Socialism always results in less choice and less liberty for everyone.
      • insurgente, on 07/05/2008, -3/+1@ Corrosionx:

        Could you perhaps give an example of the poor benefiting from free trade and private property? Everywhere free trade is introduced it brings death and destruction. Everywhere there is private property, there is alienation, slavery and poverty.

        Free trade indeed is a bourgeois liberty. It's freedom for the bourgeoisie (the capital owners, the capitalists) and slavery and alienation for the proletariat (those who sell their labour and don't own any capital, the workers). The lower and working classes account for some 80% of the citizen of the world.

        Government can be defined as "the system by which a nation, state, or community is governed". Governing as "conducting the policy, actions, and affairs of (a state, organization, or people)".

        Assuming the above definitions are correct, socialism does impose government control, but so does the market, as it exercises authority and control over the economy. The economy which, in turn, governs the people ("Yes, the whole history of humanity, intellectual and moral, political and social, is but a reflection of its economic history." -- Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State, 1871).

        It's important to note that government and state are not synonymous. Capitalism can exist only as long as there is a state that protects, or at least respects, private property. Without the state, private property would effectively be abolished and capitalism would go under. Hence capitalism is statist, and can't be anything else.

        Socialism would allow for a much different kind of choice. Under capitalism, the people (wage labourers) can choose their master (employer), and only barely so. This would effectively be abolished with socialism.

        If one were to talk about the products available for consumption, the choice would rightly so be narrower, as the production of goods that nobody wants to consume would stop. Instead of relying on corporations and companies, which the people have no say in, they could themselves make sure that products that are requested and/or needed by the community are produced, as the people (workers) themselves own and control the means of production.

        The only ones who would suffer their liberty under socialism would be the bourgeoisie (the owners of capital).

      • Corrosionx, on 07/06/2008, -0/+4Free trade doesn't bring slavery and destruction, you're thinking about managed trade, where governments get with their corporate friends and decide the rules everyone will trade by. Noone benefits from that except the fat cats.

        When I exchange my labor or my expertise with my fellow man, he benefits from it, and I benefit from his payment. Everywhere this is happening people are creating more wealth in the pie, which benefits everyone, poor and rich, because we use our intellect, our heart, our sweat and our minds to create better things, produce better and cheaper, to innovate, to satisfy our fellow man's wants and needs (which are none of your business by the way).

        The poor today live better than the kings and queens of 200 years ago, where even they had to ***** in a hole in the ground. Everywhere you see economic freedom you see people improving their quality of life, charities, employment, etc. Everywhere you see economic dictatorships (ie. the old Soviet countries) there's slavery, famine, death, corruption, mistrust, instability, destruction of the environment, bad management of resources by the central authority, etc.

        My definition of government is "a group of men and women doing business at the barrel of a gun" and if they were so interested in protecting life, liberty and property, they wouldn't be the first ones to want to take it.

        All that is needed for private property to exist is for people to respect others, just as life and liberty, which also don't need a state to exist.

        Your arguments stink of communism. Hasn't communism and the state been responsible for more than 200 million deaths in the 20th century? I think so.

        Proletariat? Talk to me when you're back in 2008.
      • insurgente, on 07/06/2008, -1/+1I am thinking of free trade. The free trade that the hegemony of the United States is imposing on the Third World through the World Bank, WTO and IMF. A free trade that if applied to the United States itself would rupture it's economy, as there is no way the United States could compete with the PRC or even Europe in a free market.

        When labour is traded, the only one benefiting is the buyer (the employer). The seller (the worker) is forced to sell his labour for less than it is worth. The buyer could never pay what the labour is actually worth, for then he would make no profit.

        Everywhere labour is traded, the schism between the rich and the poor widen daily. The poor are only better off today than a century or two ago because of government programs (many of which were won through popular struggle) and trade unions, not because of free trade.

        Economic freedom, in the sense that you are describing, does not bring improved standards of living. One only has to look at the formet Soviet states to see that. When the Soviet Union fell and market reforms were introduced, the quality of life fell drastically, and still hasn't caught up with the standard of the past.

        On the issue of employment, Sweden is a great example of employment rates dwindling when free trade reforms are introduced. The country had full employment until the late 80's and early 90's when a series of free trade reforms were introduced, which led to mass-unemployment. Today, between 250.000 and 500.000 (roughly 2,5-5,5% of the population) are without employment. Bourgeois economists call it "necessary unemployment".

        I won't argue against you when it comes to what you call "economic dictatorships" like the Soviet Union. They were conducting nothing more than state capitalism. The private capitalist was replaced by the state. There never was socialism (collective producer control and ownership of the means of production) in any of the so-called "communist states", and definitely not communism.

        Your definition of government ("a group of men and women doing business at the barrel of a gun") is more or less my definition of the capitalist class, only that there are barely any women in the bunch. The capitalist class has no interest in protecting life nor liberty. Its only interest is generating greater and greater profits.

        No wonder my arguments stink of communism, as I'm a communist. Communism hasn't been responsible for the deaths of 200 million people. People who might have claimed to be communists (Stalin, Mao and the like) may have been. But not communism as described by Marx and Engels.

        Capitalism, on the other hand, is responsible for more than 9 million deaths from starvation yearly (according to a UN report from 2003). Not to mention the wars for capitalist and imperialist interests (Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq) and anti-communist wars and repression in much of Latin America, Africa and Asia.

        Are you saying there no longer is a proletariat? No industrial working class? No wage labourers? There most certainly is, and it's still of the same character it was in the 19th and 20th century. The reason it doesn't show in the United States is because the development of class consciousness is suppressed.
      • Corrosionx, on 07/06/2008, -0/+4You're living in fantasy land. Freedom is slavery. Slavery is freedom. They got you good. They made you an educated idiot like all others.

        Communist is anti-human nature. It requires to be enforced by violence and fear. There's no way it would come about naturally, people just don't want it. That's why the USSR had to kill millions of people to force it on those that didn't want it. In Ukraine they purposefully killed 7 million people in one winter, men, women and children, to set an example as to what will happen to those who don't submit. They would shoot children in the head if they attempted to find food.

        Free trade is just that, free trade, it's what happens when I trade freely. No government needed, no WTO, no UN, no crap.

        I for one am very happy with the amount of money I sell my work for. If you think you're not paid enough, educate yourself and get a better job. It's not like there's no opportunities. It's not like poor people haven't been able to get out of it before. The opportunities are all there in a free market.

        Class consciousness has always been a tool of the top 1% super-rich elite to divide the middle class against the poor class and have the relatively wealthy
        class be afraid of the other 2. It's all about conflict. Divide and conquer. And boy did it work. and it's still working with confused minds like yours.

        I will live my life as I see fit without violating anothers life, liberty and property. I will not get into committees and parties to vote to tell other people how to live.

        Tell me what would your perfect anarcho-syndicalist/communist world do to me if I decided I wanted to trade freely with another person, or all the people that valued freedom instead of your societal micro-management? You'd throw me in jail? You'd have me executed?

        I would love you to go on this website http://www.freetalklive.com and call them on their live show Monday-Satuday 7PM to 10PM EST and expose your wonderful control freak and government-worshipping theories. You could be an enteraining caller.
      • insurgente, on 07/06/2008, -1/+1Bourgeois "freedom" is slavery. Slavery is bourgeois "freedom". I'm hardly educated. I'm an unemployed industrial worker.

        Communism is not against human nature (proven many times over, for example by Peter Kropotkin in "Mutual Aid"). Communism doesn't require violence nor does it require fear, although they they both are likely to occur in the event of socialist revolution. The upper classes start to fear the workers' growing unrest, and take up arms to repress their uprising, and the workers respond in self-defense.

        The Soviet Union is a terrible example of what I, as a communist, want to achieve. If I was in the Soviet Union at the time of Lenin or Stalin, it is likely that I would have been eliminated, like the anarchists were during the Russian Civil War, or like how the left communists were purged by Stalin. The Soviet Union was vile, there is no doubt about that. The Russian Revolution, however, was of proletarian character, but was betrayed by the bureaucrats.

        False class consciousness, like the one you describe, is not what I'm talking about. There are two distinct, yet layered, classes in every society. The working class and the upper class. The US and all other capitalist nations has them (capitalists/politicians and workers). The USSR had them (bureaucrats and workers). This true class consciousness is of no benefit to the elite.

        If you tried to trade under communism, nothing would happen to you. Trade under communism would be abolished. All trade except barter would be virtually impossible, as all would be free ("from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs").

        The economy wouldn't be managed by the state (which you refer to as "government") but by bottom-up, direct democratic federations of councils (which I refer to as "government") on the local, national and international levels.
      • Corrosionx, on 07/06/2008, -0/+3"Everything would be free"

        Like I said, fantasy land.


      • insurgente, on 07/06/2008, -3/+1How so? It was mostly realized in the anarchist-controlled areas of Republican Spain during the Civil War 1936-1939, even without going through the transitionary society that socialism is. Belief in magic (market forces), though, that is fantasy land.

        A discussion such as this one is not likely to come to any sort of conclusion.
      • andrew1193, on 07/06/2008, -1/+2"Capitalism, on the other hand, is responsible for more than 9 million deaths from starvation yearly (according to a UN report from 2003)."

        Commie *****.

        The only famines in the 20th century, for example, have been famines due to war, or those imposed by socialism.
      • andrew1193, on 07/06/2008, -0/+2"Free trade and private property are anti-democratic and are not civil liberties, but bourgeois "liberties"."

        Just like freedom of speech and religion, according to Marx.

        There is no free speech without private property.
      • andrew1193, on 07/06/2008, -0/+2"Communism hasn't been responsible for the deaths of 200 million people. People who might have claimed to be communists (Stalin, Mao and the like) may have been. But not communism as described by Marx and Engels."

        Funny then, that commies and pinkos in the West wholeheartedly supported those regimes during the height of the terror and mass-murder, recognizing that such was envisioned by Marx and Engels.
      • Corrosionx, on 07/07/2008, -0/+2"Belief in magic (market forces), though, that is fantasy land."

        Just because it's too complex for you to understand, doesn't mean it's magic.
      • Corrosionx, on 07/12/2008, -0/+1Dans les dents...
      • insurgente, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1@ andrew1193:

        The current famine in the third world is a direct result of neo-liberal policies imposed by the IMF and World Bank.

        Good luck quoting Marx saying freedom of speech is a bourgeois liberty. You won't find any such statement. Freedom of speech and private property rights are in no way connected. If they are, give me an example.

        Karl Marx on the issue of religion;
        "Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."
        -- Karl Marx, Introduction to A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right, 1844

        "We know, that violent measures against religion are nonsense; but this is an opinion: as socialism grows, religion will disappear. Its disappearance must be done by social development, in which education must play a part."
        -- Karl Marx in an interview from 1879

        Communists in the West did not support the regimes responsible of such atrocities. To give you an example (or three), revolutionary Swedish communist Anton Nilson (who, for example, blew up a boat killing a strikbreaker) went to fight for the Red Army in the Russian Civil War. He then fled Russia during the rise of Stalinism and spent the remainder of his life agitating for communism in Sweden while denouncing Stalinism. He died in 1989, 101 years old.

        Many members of the IWW were communists, yet against Stalinism. Communists from all over the world fighting with the POUM and anarchist militias during the Spanish Civil War were also against Stalinism and it's atrocities.

        @ Corrosionx:

        "Dans les dents...", not really. This discussion leads nowhere, hence I didn't reply. You can't claim any "victory".

        Market forces are, for a fact, not real, unmaterial. They don't exist. Believing in such forces is believing in magic. Why doesn't the "invisible hand of the market" solve the current financial crisis in the United States?
    • dacman61, on 07/06/2008, -2/+1As a citizen of Ohio for 25 years, I know that Kucinich is a goof and an idiot mostly... He was mayor of Cleveland and ran that city into the ground. Cleveland was a dump until the early-mid 90's when Mayor Michael White turned it around. I just have no respect for that whack job.
  • locitman, on 07/05/2008, -6/+5is this a makeup test from the first Men in Black?
  • samuelmcm, on 07/05/2008, -2/+12IMPEACH HIM PLEASE!!! come on digg! spread the word!
  • kiraly, on 07/05/2008, -11/+2So Kucinich plays some patriotic music, rehearses lines from special documents and everyone gets whipped up into a frenzy? I'm no big fan of the current pres. but Kucinich is a nutjob.
    • jeffsback2223, on 07/05/2008, -2/+5Kucinich is the only one standing up to Bush at this point.
    • themonkman, on 07/05/2008, -0/+4You know, many said the same thing of those brave souls who stood with arms at Lexington and Concord and declared that no longer will the tyranny of Britain enslave the colonies of America. For you to stand here today and say that such men as Dennis Kucinich is a nutjob for demonstrating the same internal fortitude as those men discredits you as an American and disgraces the sacrifices of our forefathers and the commitment they made to our future generations to live in Peace and Freedom.
  • cambob76, on 07/05/2008, -4/+4You are gun-crazy hypocrites hell-bent on world domination. Happy July 4th!
    • Corrosionx, on 07/05/2008, -0/+5Their government is hellbent on world domination. They had better keep their guns if they're going to take control of the government back.
    • dacman61, on 07/06/2008, -0/+1I love my guns :)
    • Caffeinate, on 07/06/2008, -0/+1I like my guns, I love my country, and I absolutely despise my current government. I respect Dennis Kucinich for being one of the few in Congress with the balls to tell it like it is. A very large portion of our current problems can be laid not only at the feet of our president and his Republican cronies, but at the Democrats who stood idly by and did nothing. I hope that in November, large numbers of both Republicans AND the Democrats who did nothing feel the displeasure of the American people as they are thrown out of office. We need more dissenters like Kucinich and far fewer abettors like Pelosi.
  • jonnyboy1544, on 07/05/2008, -11/+4Stop quoting Lincoln you douche.

    Delusions of grandeur...
  • dima1109, on 07/05/2008, -10/+2People in his district, please spare the Congress and the Democratic party constant embarrassment and vote this loser out of the House
  • JonGalt, on 07/05/2008, -10/+1NOT WORTH IT. do not watch. Its about as informative as

    www.abovetopsecret.com
  • NorthMass, on 07/05/2008, -2/+15I'm sick of these people trashing Kucinich and Ron Paul and calling them "kooky" when these guys actually have answers and actually have integrity. Then these same people will be whining about how Bush gets what ever he wants, the Dems are spineless, and gas prices are out of control. Sigh.
    • mike17032, on 07/05/2008, -10/+1The problem with their "answers" is that they suck, and have no basis in fact or real life. Both of these moonbats have no place in congress, let alone the white house.

      Comrade Kuc might be the only person in government more retarded than Ron Paul.
      • Corrosionx, on 07/05/2008, -0/+5Retards, moonbats.... come back with an argument.
    • dacman61, on 07/06/2008, -3/+1Please separate Kucinich and Ron Paul.... Kucinich is an idiot.... Ron Paul has some better ideas.
  • OfNumbers, on 07/05/2008, -8/+2That felt more like a sexually charged pass from him to anyone who was watching more than a request for signatures to impeach.
  • vinvega, on 07/05/2008, -13/+2Kucinich is a Marxist and a domestic enemy to the constitution just like the all modern day liberals. Rot in hell all you America hating bastards and Happy 4th!
  • HIMcDunnough, on 07/06/2008, -6/+1Alright, who left the door open to the Keebler Elves tree and let Denis escape again? Damn, now there's going to be a shortage of fudge stripes.

    This nut job and all his supporters need to just go away. Partisan politics and our bogus two party system is what is the real problem with this country. A sham impeachment with blustering a-holes trying to see who can get the most face time is all we'd get out of it. We've got better things to do to fix this country than this.
    • dacman61, on 07/06/2008, -3/+0I'll second that! I'm sick of fringe whack jobs! Yes, I'm tired of the Bush Administation, but I don't go off the deep end like you Kucinich followers!
  • JoanDark, on 07/06/2008, -2/+7I was delighted to sign this.Criminals should not be unpunished even if they DID weasle in to being POTUS.
    Go Dennis!
  • spankaccount, on 07/06/2008, -6/+3You would have to me one ***** ignorant Diggbot to take Dennis "UFO" Kucinich seriously.
    • maxtangent, on 07/06/2008, -1/+4Or to attack the messenger and not the message.
      • spankaccount, on 07/07/2008, -1/+1In this case, both are equally moronic. You will come to understand this once you grow up.
      • maxtangent, on 07/07/2008, -0/+1I am glad you have grown up enough to admit you have been moronic. Kudos.
  • AvangionQ, on 07/06/2008, -1/+2I'm sorry, I supported impeachment five years ago, following the quagmire that Iraq turned into ... and I supported impeachment two years ago, when Dennis Kucinich first started down this path to impeach the BushCo administration over the flood of scandals, high crimes and war crimes ... but now, there's four months left til an election, and I see this as being too late to make a difference ... we need to focus on 2009 and making sure the next batch of U.S. Attorneys prosecute those crimes ...
    • Caffeinate, on 07/06/2008, -0/+2There is no time like the present to remember those who stood up for impeachment and who took impeachment off of the table. Those who refused to remove him from office are just as guilty as the ones who openly supported his crimes.
  • bolocholo, on 07/06/2008, -1/+5Although President Bush has only a few months left in the Withe House, I wholeheartedly support impeachment because of the fundamental precedent it will establish, and for the clear message it will send to the world and to History: Americans do not tolerate criminal leaders.
  • amightywind, on 07/06/2008, -8/+1Kookcinich is worthless and weak. His self-aggrandizing efforts are pointless.
    • maxtangent, on 07/06/2008, -1/+4Because holding people accountable for their actions, particularly criminal actions, is pointless?
      If you have an issue with what he is doing, why not try a valid argument as opposed to using an Ad Hominem/Personal Attack logical fallacy?
      Nice self-aggrandizing comment you made there.
    • sjm20k, on 07/06/2008, -1/+4i'm glad other people are starting to realize that this guy never actually makes an argument. name calling, unfortunately- in your case, doesn't make your point logically viable.

      do you ever sometimes think you might be part of a huge cult - regurgitating whatever you hear your talking heads say - and saying anything at all, regardless of your own research, to defend a position that you irrationally hold without question. self-evaluation is important, it makes people better thinkers.
  • yusznet, on 07/07/2008, -3/+1PEACE TO ALL.............

    Cheers!!!!!!
    http://the-organic-skin-care.blogspot.com
  • Roger_Ramjet, on 07/07/2008, -1/+2http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1107ap_iraq ...

    "The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program - a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium - reached a Canadian port Saturday to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans.

    The removal of 550 metric tons of "yellowcake" - the seed material for higher-grade nuclear enrichment - was a significant step toward closing the books on Saddam's nuclear legacy. It also brought relief to U.S. and Iraqi authorities who had worried the cache would reach insurgents or smugglers crossing to Iran to aid its nuclear ambitions."

    Kinda hard to impeach someone for being RIGHT.
  • katanauser, on 07/07/2008, -1/+0Impeach that half-wit Kucinich!
  • xiaoxiao021, on 07/09/2008, -1/+0jdkjfdksaldkjfeialdfj dkfjeia l dejfqu j oifejv ldien j ijejiqpueu mdued
  • politicalfan28, on 07/09/2008, -0/+0Dennis is the man!!!!!!
    HIS latest message link http://impeachment.kucinich.us/petition/
    OFFICIAL impeachment petition link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7IHtv4qxpw
  •  

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