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395 Comments
- scottknick, on 05/01/2009, -16/+254Criminalizing abortion does not stop abortion. It only turns women and their doctors into criminals.
- redcolumbine, on 05/02/2009, -6/+142FTA: "A policy that criminalizes all abortions has a flip side. It appears to mandate that the full force of the medical team must tend toward saving the fetus under any circumstances. This notion can lead to some dangerous practices. Consider an ectopic pregnancy, a condition that occurs when a microscopic fertilized egg moves down the fallopian tube — which is no bigger around than a pencil — and gets stuck there (or sometimes in the abdomen). Unattended, the stuck fetus grows until the organ containing it ruptures. A simple operation can remove the fetus before the organ bursts. After a rupture, though, the situation can turn into a medical emergency.
According to Sara Valdés, the director of the Hospital de Maternidad, women coming to her hospital with ectopic pregnancies cannot be operated on until fetal death or a rupture of the fallopian tube." - spriggig, on 05/01/2009, -16/+149Abortion is legal where it is not because people like to kill babies, but because the alternative is even more horrible. Ask your grandmother what it was like in the US before abortion was legal.
- charlie6969, on 05/02/2009, -10/+137When I was pregnant with my daughter, a planned choice, my husband and I were checking out the 2 local hospitals.
One of them, when we asked for a tour, was pretty rude and said they didn't have anyone to show us around. Basically, acted like we were bothering her.
The second one was very friendly and helpful.
But, the final decision came because the first hospital was a Catholic hospital(my husband is Catholic) and if it came down to an emergency; they would save the baby over me. My HUSBAND said hell no!
We went with the 2nd hospital.
Now that I know my daughter; I would have told the Doc's to save her and not me. Which would have been rough, because my husband had already decided, if between the 2 of us, I would win, so to speak.
Having a child is a huge responsibility. But, having one can also kill you or change your health forever.
Until childbirth is free of the risk of death; a woman's decision whether to have an abortion should be hers and the father's. No one else is taking that risk for them, after all. - evilregis, on 05/02/2009, -6/+83And endangers them.
- niradg, on 05/02/2009, -8/+79I was in Peru a couple of months ago. I asked our guide what the biggest change was that led to Peru's economy radically improving in the 90s. His answer: family planning.
- Frankyfan3, on 05/02/2009, -2/+71"cannot be operated on until fetal death or a rupture of the fallopian tube."
WOW. - Sasha56, on 05/02/2009, -21/+90I make no apologies for being pro-abortion. Just like another digg piece showed that most churchgoers endorse torture, I think the pro-life people are most likely church goers..We have to concern ourselves with the living, and what choices they make regarding their bodies, and any harm that may come to those bodies. Wanton pregnancies not included. It's an inflammatory topic, but nevertheless, what may be growing in my uterus is none of your business.
- AgeofMastery, on 05/02/2009, -18/+78Maybe we can get all the right to lifers to move there.
- obliviousfool, on 05/02/2009, -5/+58Ceausescu made abortion illegal in Romania in 1966. 23 years after that, he was executed. When abortion became illegal there was a huge population boom. When those children came of age they created a massive "student" revolution which became Ceausescu's downfall! The more you know...
- Ouze, on 05/02/2009, -8/+58Were I a woman, I personally would not chose to have an abortion - but I certainly don't think I have the right to tell anyone else not to.
- redcolumbine, on 05/02/2009, -8/+52Wouldn't want to be interfering with God's wrath upon a sinner, would we?
- inactive, on 05/02/2009, -6/+49Nice that a microscopic lump of undifferentiated cells is treated as if it were a newborn baby.
- inactive, on 05/02/2009, -21/+61That's not what he meant you ***** idiot. They had back alley abortions and poisoned "herbs" they ate and drank to dispose of the fetus that sometimes killed the mother or had other nasty side effects. People "took care" of it and ended up killing themselves in the process. Read a history book you retarded Christian *****.
- shufan, on 05/02/2009, -4/+38Think about the life of a baby who is born because her mother wasn't able to abort him/her because it was illegal. That baby's mother would probably be unable to support him/her. After all, that's one of the most common reasons to get an abortion. As a result, the baby would live in poverty, without anyone able to care for her. The baby would live a life more difficult than most of us could imagine. By outlawing abortion, we would be putting millions into that situation.
- clvngodess, on 05/02/2009, -5/+38Read Freakonomics and their take on abortion, welfare and crime rates. It's rather enlightening and asks very interesting questions with data to back up the answers.
- MikaStar, on 05/02/2009, -13/+45How ***** up. There's a reason the Supreme Court ruled in favor of abortion, because it's just better for everyone involved, plus no one else has a right to tell me, as a woman, what I can and can't do with my body. The "pro life" people can bitch and bitch as much as they want, but abortion isn't going to be going away and most of them are so ignorant and stupid to the reasons it's even around and the consequences of making it illegal. The world is already overpopulated, scraping your uterus of an unwanted, unloved baby is better than giving birth to a baby that you don't want, you don't love, you can't care for, and bringing it into a world that is already on the verge of chaos due to straining resources, instability in the markets, etc,. Sometimes the best thing you can do for a child is to not have it. There's a lot of children I see everyday that they would of been a 100% better off not being born. One little girl I knew, mentally and physically handicapped, her mother beat her, she was sexually molested, etc,. Her life was hell and probably still is. You tell me what benefit does one do in choosing to have a child and subjecting them to a life like that? That whole "well they can rise about it, become president, etc," well that's great to be so optimistic, but in reality, those kids end up in prison and in state run homes or homeless. That's reality.
- novenator, on 05/02/2009, -13/+44Looks like the Dominican Republic is heading in this direction, so sad.
- theBean42, on 05/02/2009, -19/+46The catholic church are responsible for millions of deaths and destroyed lived. They are one of the biggest jokes disguising themselves as a religion that the world has ever seen.
It's not by coincidence that most catholic countries are very poor. What is even sadder is that the pope seems to hate poor people, but for some reason they like him. - inactive, on 05/02/2009, -6/+33And yet, you would have no objection if scientists killed an extraterrestrial microbe in the process of studying it. Frankly, ethically, I just fail to see the problem with destroying something that can neither think nor feel.
- seltaeb4, on 05/02/2009, -10/+36To quote Fmr. Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders, you guys really need to get over your love affair with the fetus.
- eanbowman, on 05/02/2009, -9/+35"Don't tell anyone I raped you or I'll claim that you went for an abortion afterward!"
Yeah, totally a reasonable way of doing things. amirite? ;D
</sarcasm> - barc0001, on 05/02/2009, -0/+23Jesus Christ. My ex-wife had an ectopic pregnancy when we were married. I guess if we lived in El Salvador it might have killed her.
- clvngodess, on 05/02/2009, -12/+34Right on! I've always asked these people who are for war and not reproductive health, what they would do with my uterus if I handed it over to them.
We must also remember that abortion is not typically used like taking a pill or applying a condom. This is simply mythology. And those who chose the proLife stance tend to forget the larger picture; they don't include rape, incest, health, impoverishment, mental health or anything along these lines of reality when jumping on the "control the pussy" bandwagon. (Sorry for the crassness, but isn't THAT what the argument is really about?) - stevo9er, on 05/02/2009, -6/+28Don't worry this is just compassionate conservatism in action.
Or maybe it is patriarchy... lol - fury420, on 05/02/2009, -3/+24yeah, there is nothing like the Pope going on tours of AIDS stricken Africa telling all the catholics they converted a hundred years previously that yes, there is a place called hell, and these things called condoms, and if you use these things called condoms you go to this place called hell to burn for all eternity.
thankfully christianity has such well defined morals, right? - theanticrust1, on 05/02/2009, -0/+21Walker, we do this all the time. Who knows when children should be treated as adults either? Or drive? And I think we can all agree that a bunch of cells can not think.
- stevo9er, on 05/02/2009, -1/+21Opiate of the masses.
- ThatsNotPudding, on 05/02/2009, -3/+23Catholicism: ***** women with more than just the missionary position.
Highest job a woman can have in the Catholic Church: NONE. - Totalchaos02, on 05/02/2009, -2/+22Are you at all aware of the adoption rates in most countries?
- Treshnell, on 05/02/2009, -4/+23That policy is easily justified.
The mother has been baptized (I'd assume), the baby has not. If you let the baby die, you're sending it to hell. - wpyh, on 05/02/2009, -1/+19"before CHOOSING to place a PENIS in a VAGINA....."
I don't think the PENIS will get pregnant, do you? - Rubis1, on 05/02/2009, -1/+19Actually, they do have a pretty good idea where that line is. A cluster of nerves has begun to form the brain by 9 weeks, but even by 6 months it still isn't quite ready to fully process complex stimulai such as vision. In most places in the US, you can't get an abortion in the third trimester because somewhere in that time, is the "line in the sand" you are referring to, and a baby can sometimes survive. The woman's health is considered more important than the fetus', so if her life is in danger, even in the third trimester, she can get an abortion.
- theanticrust1, on 05/02/2009, -1/+19If a doctor runs a red light, hits a pregnant woman, and the fetus is lost, he will not be charged with murder. How stupid are you? I mean, even if you were right it's called man slaughter. Murder means that the person had intent to kill.
- tmonsta1, on 05/02/2009, -10/+28you know the real irony here is the same people that are fighting against nationalized healthcare, screaming that the government shouldn't be involved in your healthcare choices, are inviting the government into the healthcare system by trying to make abortions illegal
talk about Can't see the Forest for the Trees
but then I've never credited the right with an abundance of foresight - BCPneumatics, on 05/02/2009, -3/+21A question better posed to all the kid who've killed themselves.
- ZhiZaki, on 05/02/2009, -8/+26Having the "Right to Life" opinion doesn't mean I want to see abortion made criminal. I believe that women have more choices than abortion. That being said, I believe the mother's life comes first over the unborn child and there is no justification for a medical emergency to go untreated due to a Zero Tolerance mindset.
- pkizzle, on 05/02/2009, -6/+23ahhhh, but pro-lifers are usually religious. Religious Christians believe that human life is infinitely more valuable than animal life. That is their argument for that.
Its all ***** to me. - Mattwdj, on 05/02/2009, -1/+18In this future perfect world do they teach grammar?
- Exhibitionist, on 05/02/2009, -5/+22The moment I finished reading the first few paragraphs I knew I smelled a rat.
It turns out that the ruling party in El Salvador for the past 20 years, the ultra-right wing Nationalist Republican Alliance, has been backed by the US/CIA. The party's founder was a brutal death squad leader who the US government apparently thought was just the right sorta guy to rule the country. You can thank the good ol' US government and the CIA for this *****.
Of course, not a word of this is mentioned in the NY Times article...
http://www.pww.org/article/articleview/14858/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_D%27Aubuisson - lisaawesome, on 05/02/2009, -2/+19Anyone interested should watch the movie "Vera Drake." It was heartbreaking to watch.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0383694
"Vera Drake is a selfless woman who is completely devoted to, and loved by, her working class family. She spends her days doting on them and caring for her sick neighbor and elderly mother. However, she also secretly visits women and helps them induce miscarriages for unwanted pregnancies. While the practice itself was illegal in 1950s England, Vera sees herself as simply helping women in need, and always does so with a smile and kind words of encouragement. When the authorities finally find her out, Vera's world and family life rapidly unravel." - ShoujoKakumei, on 05/02/2009, -2/+19"According to Sara Valdés, the director of the Hospital de Maternidad, women coming to her hospital with ectopic pregnancies cannot be operated on until fetal death or a rupture of the fallopian tube."
This is the slippery slope that comes with illegalizing abortion, followed by pregnant women losing their rights to make medical decisions.
I think most people on either side of the debate would like to see the number of elective abortions performed drastically reduced, but doing this through legislation helps no one. As a previous poster mentioned, access to contraceptives and comprehensive sex ed to prevent unwanted pregnancies, as well as social programs to help mothers who decide to keep their babies, would help more people than simply making abortion illegal and pretending you've solved a problem. I would add an overhaul of the adoption and foster care systems to that list as well. - Digger1123, on 05/02/2009, -5/+22It saves a hell of a lot more lives than it takes.
- anthropodeus, on 05/02/2009, -6/+23whenever you're debating with a pro-lifer, ask them if they are vegetarian. i mean, if they think it is wrong to kill something that doesnt have a functional nervous system and therefore cannot feel pain, how can they justify killing adult, pain-feeling animals?
pro-lifers should be the biggest animal rights activists out there. - BlackJackJester, on 05/02/2009, -3/+19If Abortion is illegal, I feel no matter what, if a woman wants an abortion, someone will become a criminal. The woman and doctor do if they get the abortion - or if she doesn't get it, the unwanted child may not get the family and support a wanted child would get...so they may turn to crime.
lose/lose - waydee, on 05/02/2009, -0/+16I come from a country where the abortion argument doesn't exist, or at least hasn't for some time. I'm completely in support of the right of women to have an abortion as long as the law is followed to the book and cases monitored to ensure the service is not misused in any way. Currently we require two doctors to be in agreement as to the womans suitability both physically and mentally, after which the woman will have the abortion performed either for free in the national health service or privately (rare).
Of course the primary focus in avoiding pregnancy should be promotion of proper use of contraceptives but unwanted pregnancies will still occur for a number of reasons, to deny the legal right to abortion would either create a dangerous black market domestically or force women to travel to other countries where they will almost certainly be charged for the procedure, regulation may be lax and the level of care (qualification of medical staff, psychiatric consultation both pre and post procedure, continued community support etc.) would likely be less than satisfactory for such "tourists". By making sure abortion is readily available within our own health service we can help the patient in the best way we can.
If there is a "pro-life" movement in this country they keep quiet because as far as I can tell everyone recognises that this is the most sensible option. - inactive, on 05/02/2009, -1/+16Must there be a line in the sand? Why can't we acknowledge that there is some fuzziness, but that doesn't prevent us from defining periods where it's absolutely one or the other? No one can define an exact moment when one goes from being a child to being an adult, but that doesn't mean we can't say "At this point, the person is definitely a child, and that this point, he is definitely an adult." Ultimately, I'd have to say that the "line in the sand" would have to be a matter of personal discretion, for who can say?
- plecostomus, on 05/02/2009, -1/+15I am glad this article highlighted a woman getting an abortion who already has a child.
When most people think of someone getting an abortion, they usually think of people who have had no children yet, but this is not true in most cases. I don't quite remember the survey it was in, but in the U.S. 61% of women getting abortions already have one or more children.
EDIT: It was AGI's 2000 survey. - inactive, on 05/02/2009, -2/+16@3401-
are you a woman? don't tell me what to do with my uterus, and don't try to understand the fear and desperation of an unwanted pregnancy, men really have no idea how scary it really is, especially when it's as easy as walking away for them. quite frankly, a full grown human slave with feelings, a conscience and awareness does not compare to a clump of week old cells, so LOGICALLY, you have no opinion, because you don't have the ability to walk in a woman's shoes and experience childbearing. I don't project this attitude towards many things, but being pregnant is something guys just will never truly get. - Dustin00, on 05/02/2009, -2/+16I'm curious: if you already had 2 kids and it came down to your life or your new baby, would you still want the baby saved?
To me, the other kids having a mother is more important than another child. But maybe I'm just more practical than emotional.
I can say, if my wife died having my first child, the child would go up for adoption. I'd be a wreck and would not be capable of doing that on my own. To me, it's more fair to the kid to have a stable, two parent home. And putting a newborn up for adoption works, but if I figure out 4 years later I can't do it on my own, then the kids stuck with me. -
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