What is Digg?215 Comments
- thenativeraver, on 10/12/2007, -4/+89~found this comment~
Web posted Tuesday, February 6, 2007
Hate speech isn’t right
Letter to the Editor
Hate speech may be protected under the First Amendment, but that doesn’t mean it’s right, responsible or appropriate to print deranged and hateful diatribes like Alice Shannon’s letter, printed in the Clarion on Jan. 29.
Her call to “stomp out” atheists in America and her dark predictions of atheists destroying America by “practicing what can only be called evil” is frighteningly reminiscent of Adolf Hitler’s contemptible predictions regarding Jews which captivated Germany over 60 years ago.
I am also fascinated by what her definition of “freedom” could possibly be. She defines freedom of religion as the freedom to “believe in God any way you want,” completely ignoring not only the atheists which she so openly abhors, but also any religion that does not conform to her impossibly narrow definition of piety.
I think that the adherents of Buddhism, Agnosticism, Humanism, Unitarian Universalism and a multitude of other polytheistic or atheistic belief systems would object to being limited to “Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, etc.”
Just because vicious attacks of “Get off our country” (apparently there is an inverse relationship between grammar ability and bigotry) are deeply offensive only to a (largely silent) minority of Alaskans does not mean that such assaults, which go directly against the very basic founding principles of this country, should be printed without rebuke.
Shame on Alice Shannon and everyone who agrees with her, and shame on the Peninsula Clarion for providing a forum for such disgusting bigotry and misguided anger.
Joseph Mohorcich
Soldotna - rune420, on 10/12/2007, -7/+64It seems like "freedom of religion" to her means "freedom to believe in my religion".
- nekitip, on 10/12/2007, -5/+61Note she doesn't allow for non-christian religions either.
- baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -8/+64Alice Shannon is whacko, just as extreme as the taliban (just replace islam with christianity)...
- aaronwolfe, on 10/12/2007, -8/+58How did she understand anything she read in the bible, if she can't understand "no state sponsored religion"?
- blaze03, on 10/12/2007, -4/+51"The United States is based on having freedom of religion...which means you can believe in God any way you want (Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, etc.) but you must believe."
I don't feel any anger towards her, just pity. - Bhima, on 10/12/2007, -6/+47About to begin?
- crazybrit, on 10/12/2007, -2/+40NEWSFLASH: PEOPLE ARE STUPID.
There are stupid Christians and stupid atheists, but we're going to have to live together, mmkay? Bitching about it isn't going to make things any better. - Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -11/+42Yes, a new religious war is about to begin because of one stupid reader sending one stupid response to a newspaper.
Oh. Noes. - bruenig, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25@royall64
In short, red scare.
"In 1956, the Cold War was in full swing, and the anti-Communist suspicion of the McCarthy era was at its height. Partly in reaction to Communism (which was officially atheist), the 84th Congress passed a joint resolution to replace the existing motto with "In God we Trust." According to United States Code, Title 36, Section 302, the new motto officially displaced the original 180 year-old national motto "E Pluribus Unum" (Out of Many, One) when President Eisenhower signed the resolution into law on 30 July 1956."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust - Adune0Warrior, on 10/12/2007, -4/+24 Once in our nation's history we did not have "In God we trust" on our money, high officials when swearing in they didn't have to say "So help me God" when the phrase "under God" wasn't in our Pledge of Allegiance. And when people did not say that America was a "Christan" nation. The words "under god" in the pledge of allegiance was not added to it until February 8, 1954 and was introduced to congress by Representative Charles Oakman. Before this the words "under god" were not in our pledge of allegiance.
The Treaty with Tripoli which was approved unanimously by the Senate in 1797 under the administration of President John Adams clearly states in Article 11 of the treaty states, "[T]he government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…." This was signed by our founding fathers it is a clear indicator to not let any religion make the laws for our nation.
The first attempt of branding our currency with "In God we Trust" was in 1863 from religious out cry and it appeared on lots of American coinage. But, before this time there was no "under god" on American currency whatsoever. But, on July 11, 1955 President Eisenhower signed public law 140 making it mandatory that all coinage and paper currency display the motto "In God We Trust." Later the next year he signed Public Law 851 which officially changed the national motto of "E Pluribus Unum" to "In God we Trust." Also during this time of integrating the words god into our once secular government they also made a statue for all federal justices and judges to swear an oath concluding with "So help me God."
All of these laws were made during the Cold War era (except the coinage branding in 1863.) which was fueled by the need to include "In God We Trust" into numerous things to combat the "godlessness" of communism.
To please our founding fathers and out atheist friends I believe that we need to restore the secular society that America once was. This would be a great sign of freedom of religion. Since 1954 the atheist have been oppressed which goes against the basis of the Constitution of freedom of religion and these laws restrict that freedom by our government. Changes need to be made to show once again that America is indeed the land of the free, the freedom of religion or lack of religion. - strabes, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20The difference is that if you follow Christian doctrine (New Testament, life of Christ, early church) literally, you'll be something like Amish. Simple, pacifist, loving, and community-oriented. "Christians" that preach hate and things like "god hates fags" are not emulating the life of Christ. They see God as all judgement and fire and brimstone and miss His love and forgiveness.
- hannahmar, on 06/11/2009, -1/+17I love how her options for ways to believe in god are just several sects of the same religion.
- starfisch, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18brb, going off the country for a while
- rockforever, on 10/12/2007, -6/+21Wow, what kind of idiot would want to start a semantics war with an entire group of people? You want to make me believe in ANY religion?? OK, I'll just make one up. And I guarantee it will piss you off just as much you ignorant bible thumper.
- Jaq524, on 10/12/2007, -16/+30Christ-insanity.
Sorry, I had to. - AquaTeenMS, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Why does religion denote morality? How many Catholic priests have raped little boys in the last 5 years? Don't take my word for it but I am pretty sure they are religious.
- Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16(sentences)
And Godwin's Law only applies to the intarwebs!
For those who don't know it, Godwin's Law: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." (Formulated by Mike Godwin in the 1990s) - AquaTeenMS, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16"So, to all the atheists in America: Get off our country"
If there was a god he would smite people like her for making christians sound so stupid. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+21Hahahah.. I'd like to see all the atheist's leave our country, and see how well college's do after they all leave.. I think there will be a lot of job openings for professors.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14This isn't even about atheism. She only mentions Christian demoninations under what she deems "acceptable." There are plenty of religious beliefs that would fall under her definition of "atheism." What if I'm a pantheist? What if I'm a polytheist? In either case, the word "God" is not appropriate. Or should I just be burned at the stake for not being a good little Christian like she wants?
- machinegunopera, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12I think the article, "Let's just keep fishing" looked more interesting.
- ColinCampbell, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10I agree with Jag524. This is the Internets. No joking allowed.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Its hard to tell the difference between satire and foxified nazi nutbar ramplings.
You just can't tell the difference anymore. - rodrigo74, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u128/rodrigo74/1170191653865.jpg
In case the server dies... - Gophergreg, on 10/12/2007, -8/+16JESUS, Save me from the Christians!
- coheedcollapse, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7To come to the defense of Christians (I'm Atheist, but I believe they should be fairly represented even if crazy happens to be the majority), here's a response someone wrote to that very column on the paper's website (found it with a google search):
"Regarding Alice Shannon’s letter: Even the devil believes in God. Your letter was caustic and not well thought out or prepared to share with your fellow mankind. In the USA, and in the eyes of God we have the freedom to believe or not." - RedHerringHack, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I live by 1 rule. The golden one. It's not complicated. I am an atheist BTW, my sundays are free to think deep.
I think jesus even endorsed that one. - TrogdorBurnin8r, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Good example being Ted Haggard (and there are bunches of others as well) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Haggard
The guy spent hours talking against homosexuals and he was screwing a male prostitute. Talk about hypocrite - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -13/+19royal64: That's a great point. It's a mistake that needs correcting and needs to be removed from our currency.
- Lardquake, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@chris9902: So what's the belief in no Santa Claus called?
- TrogdorBurnin8r, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Wow... unbeliavable... "it's time to stomp out atheists in America"... guess that's the love they are preaching about. You let people like this in power (which Bushists almost managed to do) and we'll have Afghanistan in the US of A.
- CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I don't care what religion people have, so long as it is possible to live _without_ religion.
But, as atown44 above makes clear, some religious people are incapable of letting other people believe differently than they do. - brasso, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13Goddamn christian redneck...
- GregR, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@ AquaTeenMS "... How many Catholic priests have raped little boys in the last 5 years? Don't take my word for it but I am pretty sure they are religious."
How many politicians raped the country in the past x years? Don't take their word for it that they are religious! - noamsml, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8In other news: It seems that the Christian right has resorted to growing people in boxes without contact to the outside world and brainwashing them 24/7. Seriously; that's the only explanation.
- saleem, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"First they came for the atheists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't an atheist..." extrapolate that out, digg-ers.
the original:
"In Germary, the Nazis first came for the communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics, but I didn't speak up because I was a protestant.
Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak for me."
-Martin Niemöeller (1892-1984) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+796% of NAS members are atheist of agnostic.
I'd *love* to see how the nation's already floundering economy fares after the best minds are exiled. - DisposableRob, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Godwin's law doesn't really count when the original post or letter has such an obviously fascist message.
- hbweb500, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@Broomett
I suggest you read about the Establishment Clause to the 1st Amendment:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/estabinto.htm
The government cannot endorse religion for the sole reason that it is a religion. For example, the Supreme Court found in Engel v Vitale that school-sponsored prayer was illegal, and an endorsement of religion. Providing busing to parochial schools, however, is not considered a violation, since it isn't done for religious reasons.
There are two things to remember with church & state: Establishment and Free Exercise. - unknownsoldierX, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7What a total close-minded, brainwashed nutjob.
"The United States is based on having freedom of religion...which means you can believe in God any way you want (Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, etc.) but you must believe."
Freedom of religion mean you must believe in "God"? So this inherent right to practice a religion of your choice excludes Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.?
Sadly, her line of thought is more common her in the US than many intelligent people care to believe. - noamsml, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4My God, it's full of Atheists!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@broomett:
Exactly, and that's why if I am an atheist and a US citizen, they can't make me leave just because I don't believe in their God..
@adune0warrior2
Well put. - killzalot, on 10/12/2007, -9/+13lol i am glad i don't live in the US.
- hesitaliandad, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"Is a new religious war about to begin?"
I'm fairly certain that some hick in Alaska writing to her local paper is not the leader of an insurrection. - mrchi03, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I may not agree with what athiests do, but I will defend to the death their right to do it!
that lady needs a slap in the face - plasticquart, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6This lady is obviously a loon... too bad she doesn't appear to have any easily found public contact info. :)
Anywho, lots of good responses in the same newspaper:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Wt1gniDpxlkJ:www.peninsulaclarion.com/letters/+alice+shannon,+soldotna&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a - xZeddx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5This is why some atheists are antitheistic.
If they practiced what they teach and learn in Church, they would be accepting of all people, including atheists.
I am hoping for the religious culture war to come. Maybe it will eradicate people as close minded as this woman. - cr4ft, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Oh boy! Nothing like reading an intolerance letter by ANOTHER ***** up Christian.
- NJank, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@xbudex &stvnly:
Wow. nearly identical questions with such an obvious answer it's almost painful to have to point it out.
The newspaper's job is to maintain readership and generate interest. More eyes on the page = win.
How many diggers checked out the story? How many stories about the story will there be?
How many would there have been if they hadn't printed this? none.
Easy answer. -
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