What is Digg?259 Comments
- Pherdnut, on 04/14/2008, -9/+62Oh for cryin' out... Just read the whole damn thing. I'll even mark the bit that started it all. Keep in mind that this was in response to the question of what the challenges of campaigning in PA are.
OBAMA: "So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.
Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).
But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points.
[Here it comes the big huge ZOMG!!!]
But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives.
[He's talking about the hardest people to convince that he legitimately gives a damn.]
You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.
[Here it comes.]
So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
[These people are recognizable. They're the pissed off left-behind anti-gay base that made Bush's second win possible. It's clear that he has some compassion for them and to say the man is antireligion would be highly inaccurate so I buy it when he says he was simply stating that they fall back on these things exclusively rather than vote on larger issues of survival that they've given up on. People did that in 2004 and we were all talking about it. Furthermore, it fits with the context of how he set the whole thing up. However, it would still be pretty damning if he was painting all of small town PA with this one broad stroke.]
[And he obviously realized that when he followed with this.]
Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing."
[I think it's pretty damn obvious that this has been blown way out of both context and proportion and everybody indulging in it is going to end up with mud on their face - that means you Slate] - lderks, on 04/14/2008, -10/+57Thanks for the insight in your thoughtful process to select the best candidate. I don't see how this comment is related to the article, accept that you seem to be a little bitter and clinging to your gun.
- Debmood, on 04/14/2008, -10/+51Isn't it a shame to know that honesty in politics is unacceptable. Hillary is putting a spin on a phrase just to get a vote. She knows exactly what Obama was saying. I hope Mayflower got paid well because in many of the readers eyes, she is indeed a sleazy wanna be reporter.
People are very bitter at NAFTA. Many small towns have seen factories and other businesses disappear. Many small towns are suffering. What's wrong with turning to your faith in God? Is it now a crime to cling to your church for comfort in the Lord?
Too bad that Hillary, a staunch supporter of NAFTA, which is her husband's legacy, is trying to brainwash people based on a phrase she plucked out of an unknown reporter with evil intent. Then again, people with evil intent are the people Hillary is depending on the most. - jbdobd, on 04/14/2008, -5/+43In the last 30 years, Americans have never had an honest President. This could be the test to find out whether they can accept one.
- mxpx5678, on 04/14/2008, -8/+32Wow this is a great read. It shares much more insight into where those comments came from. The comments that have emerged on the internet appear to have been taken out of context. He was trying to get people to recognize what these different groups of people have been through. Imagine that he is actually trying to commiserate with them. This full story really needs to get read.
- jforjools, on 04/14/2008, -4/+27Yet a another ray of light from cashman.
"Anyone who knows anything about Americans...??"
Well,anyone who knows anything about Americans knows that almost all of us think that the country is heading off the tracks. Simplistic (and rather unrelated) arguments are NOT what we need to solve anything.
But just keep swallowing down that bitter taste--simplistic arguments will only bring bitter answers. - jforjools, on 04/14/2008, -3/+26Speechwriter? There was NO speechwriter for this casual Q/A at a small fundraiser.
What it's like to live in a rural area? Tell us how Obama's clueless in this regard. Be specific. I've spent 80% of my 42 years in small towns and rural areas. He's dead on target. Look at polling data for the last 20-30 years and it will all correlate too.
Clinging to guns? You make it sound like he said something bad about gunowners....well if he did, then he was also putting down those how rely on religion and faith...And clearly, he's big on the whole religion thing himself. So if anything, you should feel comforted that he puts religion and guns in the same phrase.
Obviously you're not ever going to vote for the guy (or the woman). If you want to convince anyone else, you should use a little more logic and not cling to soundbites. - jforjools, on 04/14/2008, -8/+27Highlight from article:
First, I noted immediately how dismissive his answer had been about "talking points" and ten point programs and how he used the question to urge the future volunteer to put forward a larger message central to his campaign. That pivot, I thought, was remarkable and unique. Rather than his seizing the opportunity to recite stump-worn talking points at that time to the audience -- as I believe Senator Clinton, Senator McCain and most other more conventional (or more disciplined) politicians at such an appearance might do -- Senator Obama took a different political course in that moment, one that symbolizes important differences about his candidacy.
----------------------
I want a candidate who isn't afraid to show intellect and thoughtfulness. I don't even care if he/she is elite, honestly. (And I don't buy that argument against obama anyway...ridiculous and hysterical, really.) Our country's in the *****--and we're actually spending time on this. - jforjools, on 04/14/2008, -3/+21Well, first of all thank you for joining up and serving. I 'joined up' too--about twenty years ago.
You are wrong to call Obama supporters "worshippers". That's the elitist language of someone looking down their nose at others.
I see your posts everywhere I go. I'm simply not going to read them anymore. Because they never contain any real information--just accusation and emotion.
Good luck. - MoofTheStoof, on 04/14/2008, -1/+17Normally I just digg up and do a little mental "hear, hear," when I see a comment I agree with, but your reply to cashman57 was so adroit and clever I have to overtly express my praise of it. I like it, it totally skewered him (and the laughable anti-obama rants stemming from this story), and it made me laugh. Thanks.
- MadKennyP, on 04/14/2008, -5/+21Cashman is rarely on point with his comments. I think his mind wanders a lot or something.
- voodoochild461, on 04/14/2008, -5/+21I goto school in PA, and commute there everyday. The locals who I goto school with, and even my teacher said that Obama is right, they are indeed bitter.
- alexismasters, on 04/14/2008, -5/+18With just a few days before the Penn Primary, I was holding my breath, certain that Clinton would pull another kitchen sink move. If these comments had not been singled out, they would have cooked up some negative controversy. The real shame is that the media, in a slow news week, have glommed onto this story and driven it right over the edge. If this wrecks the Obama candidacy, Clinton will never recover from the fury of other Dems. Such a bloody shame... Those of us who gave up on politics years ago and dared to hope again with Barack Obama's vision must remain steadfast, despite the wave of hopelessness that threatens to engulf us with Clinton's betrayal.
- humanerror, on 04/14/2008, -5/+17Why don't we talk about the ***** issues instead of letting the PR companies distract us with this *****?
Our country is in the middle of a war of aggression.
We still have no national health care. We are the only developed country in the world with no national health care.
The gap between the rich and the poor is wider in the USA than it is anywhere else in the world, and it's getting wider.
Talk about that! - jforjools, on 04/14/2008, -3/+14I'm tired of you posting this so I finally took a look at your link.
I'm not impressed at this terrible attempt at parsing. And it was dreadfully long to sit through. - why3th, on 04/14/2008, -0/+11"If you like war, mass murder, and economic collapse cling to Obama."
Wow, Obama hasn't even been nominated and his plans have already been in motion for at least 8 years? That sneaky mofo. - inactive, on 04/14/2008, -8/+19I can not fathom any grown adult with a 3rd grade education even considering voting for McCain.
- mxpx5678, on 04/14/2008, -6/+17What are you talking about? Did you even read the article that is linked?
- LadyDoor, on 04/14/2008, -10/+21Thanks for this link - a good read.
- meamog, on 04/14/2008, -2/+13There's no convincing some people of truth, when it's staring them in the face. With the whole transcript there, you can still manage to see the comments as a Midwestern diss? I hope your day to day life isn't met with such pessimism.
- Icebath, on 04/14/2008, -6/+16Thoughtfulness and nuance are alien to the usual American electoral process. They always have been and always will be. Obama's M.O. of insightful, intelligent conversation (damn the torpedoes of conventional wisdom and negativity) is a significant exception. He offers the unique, compelling prospect of a non-cynical, honest and inclusive public discourse. If indeed we truly get the leaders we deserve, I hope the electorate realizes what we have in Obama. It may be a very long time before anyone like him comes along again.
- StarlessKnight, on 04/14/2008, -2/+12Ask any American... Okay.
Hey, self, would you rather be secure or a victim?
Wait, self two, this is an either or question?
Of course, self one, what do you think this is, a country run by intelligent people able to balance security with civil liberties? Ha!
Good point. I guess I'd have to pick--
Already way ahead of you, terrorist sympathizer! Guards! Guards!
Um, I think you mean "police."
I said what I meant, self one, thank you very much. *Pause* Damn it, where are those Homeland Security guys? So much for Big Brother being on the ball.
But you trust them to protect the country from terrorists?
Shut up. - jforjools, on 04/14/2008, -4/+14First of all, I looked at the link and it sucked.
Secondly, 'bitter-gate' is not a racial subject. Do you think only white people go to church or own guns? - minorthreat, on 04/14/2008, -2/+11isn't it amusing when people try to belittle Obama, calling him a lefty rights stealer and such. They are just trying to mimic how some liberals acted toward Bush. Key difference here is that Bush DOES have major flaws. It's not about red vs blue man... It's has never been about that for the liberals you hate so much. Its about right vs wrong.
- MadKennyP, on 04/14/2008, -6/+15The estate tax does not affect family farms. That Republican talking point expired about 12 years ago.
- wendelgee2, on 04/14/2008, -0/+9I think you're a strong candidate for most hated person on Digg. How does that make you feel that you spend all of this time talking to people who think you're a jackass?
- tomgsmyth, on 04/14/2008, -1/+10cashman....you should have been a blowjob.
- Lrn2Fish, on 04/14/2008, -0/+8Honestly dood, what are you smoking? Are you payed to cough up ***** like that? Just look at hte guys career choices. he passed up a life of riches as a big time corporate lawyer to work as a community organizer. Look into what this man has done all of his life and then retract your ignorant comments.
- inactive, on 04/14/2008, -3/+11I'm really amazed grown adults allow their children to be molested every Sunday by a barbaric obsolete believe system.
Hey your the one that drinks blood, and eats flesh every Sunday and looks forward to a day when 'Our Dear Lord' will come down on a white horse and obliterate mankind. - fluxion, on 04/14/2008, -2/+10this is also consistent with his speech on race, its a real ideology that, when explained well, makes perfect sense and brings to like important issues underlying the politics and demographics of this nation. but it's like walking on eggshells, since out of context you get f'd, but as a whole you make an important point and illuminate a very specific point of focus for bringing this country out of this stalemate.
- tomgsmyth, on 04/14/2008, -0/+8by obama worshipper...what i think you mean is realistic people?
do you really think its plausible that an independent will be president? while its admirable to be an independent thinker, it's less admirable to have delusions of grandeur about it. Instead of withdrawing from making valid input why don't you put your intelligence and will into asking for change. whether or not you think there should be and indepentdent president why not take a deep breath step away from yourself and look at the big picture. - KeepOffMyLawn, on 04/14/2008, -0/+8Who'll win then? The man who doesn't represent the majority of the country in both age and creed and has no problem whatsoever extending a US presence in the Middle East for the next hundred years?
For future reference - keep any skewed opinions/conclusions you've come to based upon "guns" to yourself. - humanerror, on 04/14/2008, -2/+9"Believe in secured borders"? Is that what we're calling racism these days?
What about open borders. There can be no illegal immigrants if we just let'em all in. How does that idea grab ya? - NoDrama, on 04/14/2008, -0/+7Feel free to vote for Annie Oakley, cashman, I'm sure you both look spiffy in orange.
- jdfreedom, on 04/14/2008, -0/+7No he did not. That is yet another generalized statement by someone who apparently doesn't know what Obama was really saying. I am a working class mid-westerner who realizes that he was talking about me!! He was right. We are fed up! People here really are apathetic toward their government. Some really do cling to religious or 2nd amendment talking points when deciding for whom to vote.
- jdfreedom, on 04/14/2008, -1/+8He has my vote as long as he keeps telling the truth! If this is all the dirt the competition can find, then Obama is already a head above. What's worse, the media allow themselves to be spoon-fed this kind of bull all of the time. If journalists were doing their jobs they would take a more thorough look at the story! Why is it always up to the bloggers to expose the talking points?
- StarlessKnight, on 04/14/2008, -1/+8I believe taking quotes out of context isn't something you only rally against just when it concerns biblical arguments.
- inactive, on 04/14/2008, -2/+9Did a tornado crash through your trailer park again?
- toastjam, on 04/14/2008, -2/+9Isn't it, though? How would that make him an asshat? How is he un-American?
- gwolf, on 04/15/2008, -0/+6You have had a conservative administration for quite some time now and I haven't seen them repealing any of the gun bans that have been put in place over the years. They promised and promised and never delivered and you blindly assume they want what you want. All they wanted was your vote and they never delivered anything they have had the power to do except a pointless war and a metric ton of debt.
Now you have a candidate that does the unthinkable and tells you the truth and you just cant handle it.
What's up with that? - seeyounorth, on 04/14/2008, -1/+7"You can take my job but you sure as hell ain't gonna take my gun!" "You take my job and my gun but you're sure as hell ain't gonna tell me the truth..." Sad that people get so offended when they get told the truth.
- lderks, on 04/14/2008, -4/+10I love it! StepCousin flatly admits see can make up any story she wants to.
- staticneuron, on 04/14/2008, -0/+6Ok.... did you read it? Did you take his commentary out and still believed that it was some sort of diss? If so then I wonder if you are in the guiness book of world records. Your head is so far up your ass you can see what you had for breakfast.
- fluxion, on 04/14/2008, -1/+7ok at this point i feel like im spamming but you guys just wont get off this reverse-racism tactic:
"But what has not so far been reported is that those statements preceded and were joined with additional observations that black youth in urban areas are told they are no longer "relevant" in the global economy and, feeling marginalized, they engage in destructive behavior."
give it a freakin rest, he's not racist - fluxion, on 04/14/2008, -1/+7"But what has not so far been reported is that those statements preceded and were joined with additional observations that black youth in urban areas are told they are no longer "relevant" in the global economy and, feeling marginalized, they engage in destructive behavior."
omg racist! against whites AND blacks! how dare he talk down to the young black community like that, he knows nothing about being a young black man! - kiddcode, on 04/14/2008, -0/+6What's there to understand? It's not a well-crafted argument, it's like the ramblings of a 3rd-grader. If he can't communicate very well, should he expect people to accept what he has to say?
- fuzed, on 04/14/2008, -0/+6Bottomline is, you very obviously didn't RTFA. FAIL
- FukUrCouch, on 04/14/2008, -8/+14I hope people keep seeing how McCain and Hillary are playing politics with every word he says and realize that they are just like like everyone else in Washington. How do you expect to have a good president when they are playing dirty games like these.
***** Hillary! She's a manipulating bitch. McCain is just old and forgets the economy is going down the drain.... - malex, on 04/14/2008, -0/+5According to Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, less than 3% of the adults who died in 2002 were subject to the estate tax.
http://www.factcheck.org/article328.html - malex, on 04/14/2008, -0/+5I was with you until "always will be". Americans are perfectly capable of being talked to like adults, and my hope is that they'll have the chance to get used to it.
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