What is Digg?80 Comments
- tont0r, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20how about instead of 'hippies', we call it 'the people really ***** tired of filling up everyone 300 miles for $50'?
- cambrown99, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20I wish more lobbying groups had noble causes. Let's get a lobbying group for the Tesla electric car now.
- shmuu102, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15me too.... stop the tax breaks for hummers and large SUV's and we will call it even..
- CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -9/+19Oh terrific. Another special interest group going to government for their hand-out of tax money.
...and I own a hybrid! Don't put me in the same category as those rent-seeking whores. - dpk87, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I want a lobby group that lobbies against lobbying. Does that make me crazy?
- alf86, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7No more lobbyists!! I'm sick of it! Last I checked the American PEOPLE were the ones who are supposed to tell Congress what they should do. Not special interest groups. They don't care about you or me. That's why we call them "special interest." While I agree it is important to protect the environment, buying the government away from the people is not the answer... to any issue.
- tdogg241, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8But the benefits transcend the owner. Hybrids are better for the environment since they pollute less and they make more efficient use of a very limited resource. Therefore, everyone wins. The benefits help get the ball rolling with regard to adoption of the technology.
- blamebla, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Oil companies have more lobbyists than the greenies could ever hope to have. So until the system changes and all lobbying is outlawed, they have to play by the rules of the game. In that regard this group represents the opinions of citizens rather than companies so it is inherently more democratic.
All that being said, I would much prefer that all the subsidies for oil be removed. With the true cost of oil exposed to consumers (including emissions costs), market forces will be able to create truly efficient decisions.
http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/fuel_economy/subsidizing-big-oil.html - repins, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@shmuu102
That tax break was not on Hummers, it was on vehicles that weighed over a certain amount. It was intended to be used by farmers who buy big expensive trucks to get your food to the Super-Wal-Mart. Then the Tax Lawyers turned into a tax break on Hummers, and that loop hole has since been closed. - h0kiez, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8I'm no fan of big government, but there is entirely too much at stake here...everything from our economy to our global position in the world to the war on terror have EVERYTHING to do with oil. We need to dramatically decrease our oil consumption if we truly want to be free. Currently we are all enslaved by our need for oil, and something has to be done. I hope that gas stays the same or gets even more expensive so that actually finding a solution becomes the "cheapest" thing to do, but if I'm going to be over-taxed anyway, I'm sure the government has far worse ways of blowing my dollars that giving more breaks to those that drive fuel-efficient cars.
"We're not against hybrids. We just think all of the benefits for hybrid owners discriminate against people who want to drive SUVs," DeFore said.
- I wonder if this guy has heard of the Lexus RXh or Escape Hybrid. Just remember that this is always about fuel economy...not necessarily the technology that gets you there. Driver of Hybrid car X that averages 40 mpg shouldn't get some incentive that someone else driving a Civic that gets the same mileage doesn't get. - gmillerd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Daimler Chrysler need to get off its ass and start selling these cars in America. http://www.smart.com/
- NICU, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I am 100% with repins on this one. Hybrids are good that they're better on gas, but what happens in a few years when all of those batteries die? How bad will those be on the environment? I'm not saying hybrids are bad, I'm just saying they're not perfect and the impact of throwing out 500,000 cars' batteries might not help the environment.
- treleung, on 10/12/2007, -9/+13Come on now, people now people now
People now, come on now, people now
Got to drive hybrids, people now
People now, people now, people now
Hybrids are for people now, people now
Group of people driving people now
Get a hybrid, be good people now. - Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Spoken like a true 'coaster.
Why don't you come out here to the middle of the country where SUVs are used and not just status symbols?!
I wanna see you drive your fscking Prius through 18" of snow, or up a mountain with your family and their luggage in it.
I need to go from Central Wyoming to Omaha, Nebraska on September first of this year. I will have four adults and two children plus enough luggage for all of them to go for four days. How in the ever loving hell do you propose to put all of THAT into anything LESS than an S.U.V.?
Now shutup about this and stick to talking about things you know something about. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I was making enough in the Army to have a more expensive car than that, and if you've been in the military you know they don't pay worth crap. And honestly people who don't make much money should invest and extra 50 bucks a month on a car payment over a cheaper car to save 200 bucks a month on gas, it makes sense to me. Honestly people who chose to drive a car that guzzles gas, whether its an 87 chevy or a big SUV shouldn't complain about gas prices. There are lots of mid 90's to early 2000's cars you can get pretty cheap that get 35-40 MPG. Not to mention if a person has an 87 Dodge they probably don't owe anything on it and could get a good down payment out of the trade in value.
- UglyAmerican, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4So I bought a hybrid Ford Escape a year and a half ago. The tax break was good, California was passing a law to allow hybrids in the car pool lane, and its a good thing to do.
Only one problem. After I buy the legislature decides that only foreign hybrids qualify to dive in the car pool lane.
That pissed me off. - jerbaker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think you mean that the legislature required hybrids get better mileage than "regular" cars in order to get the car pool lane exemption. Just because American car companies are getting their clocks cleaned by the Japanese AGAIN (and for the same reasons as in the 70's), that's no reason to complain. It's their fault for focusing on SUVs.
- brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Texas belonged to Mexico in the first place.
- h0kiez, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Agreed. Didn't I read an article on Digg some time ago about Toyota's plan to be able to add the hybrid feature to any car for about $300 within just the next couple of years? The tech is not perfect, but if it gets cheap enough, I think darn near anyone getting a new car would want it.
- guaigean, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@jerbaker
See, that's the problem. If it won't save money, the average person won't buy it. Most people have very little brand loyalty, environmental awareness, or other such altruistic motivations. Market research shows that in most cases (when functionality is equal or similar) that cost is the determining factor. Just because it may have a moral highground (which I don't necessarily even believe that hybrids hold) doesn't mean the majority of the population will adapt to it. If you really want to get hybrids to become popular, get the automakers to lower their price, because the only thing they're doing right now is price gouging the people that think it's "cool" to have a hybrid, and they were going to buy one either way. - repins, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5what about all those batteries when the car reaches the end of its life, or the byproducts of their manufacture?
- puffarthur, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5you can smell the smug from here...
in all seriousness, hybrid cars are very expensive and will only make up for it in gas money if you drive in an urban setting (i.e. lot of stop and go, speed under 30mph). - Higgins, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Can't get rid of lobbyists. The constitution is clear that we as citizens have a right to directly petition our representatives. There are lobbyist for 'good' causes (socially liberal) but it's the business groups that always make the news. I consider them a necessary evil.
- alf86, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Aren't large SUVs subject to gas-guzzler taxes? I agree, though, its not fair to automakers or consumers.
- 4mica, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7They're goal is to encourage the sale of hybrids, not to get special handouts to current owners. Either we pay a little price now to reduce our environmental impact, or we pay a big price later.
- jerbaker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Part of the legitimate job of government, even by libertarian standards, is to protect its citizens. Discouraging overconsumption of finite resources is a legitimate role for government. I don't understand why a libertarian would be against using financial incentives, as opposed to coercive laws, to accomplish that.
- guaigean, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Additionally, it takes a VERY long time for a hybrid to pay for the cost difference in fuel consumption. Hybrids are currently significantly more expensive, and just aren't cost efficient in most cases. I was considering it for a while, but why when the savings just isn't there?
- Scruples, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3About the Prius:
1. It was build primarily as a low emissions vehicle; it just happens that one way to reduce emissions is to be very efficient;
2. Those who are calculating the total cost of ownership of a hybrid must also account for the much higher resale value of hybrids. My 2005 Prius would sell for almost what I paid for it, so my first year's ultimate costs are very low. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4My problem with this is that it's just a hand out to the rich. Some people just can't afford to buy a brand new shinny high-cost hybrid. And now, the upper middle class get better treatment (car pool lane, free parking), because they can afford this car. Where's the special treatment for those who are being raped by high gas costs for their 87 dodge?
- mandarin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Incentives? Why dont you just lower the price for these cars?
- alf86, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3...then fought and won its independence from Mexico. Are you saying it would also be ok for England to come and take back the original colonies?
- MikeMacMan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2That resale value isn't going to look so good when the battery craps out at like 100,000 miles.
- guaigean, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"Normally I'm all about the government staying out of influencing what we purchase, but the stakes are high here (foreign oil, air quality, environmental impact), and I believe this is about raising the awareness feasibility of hybrids cars."
Yes, so you believe. And every other special interest or wacko groups believes that "the stakes are high" in regards to their special project. By allowing the government to control market decisions, you open them up to control all market decisions. It's none of their business, and it's not what they're here for. If years down the road they decide to do so, it's because people like you claimed that "the stakes are high" and allowed them to slip in. What exactly makes the stakes so high here that it's worth ceding control to the government? - MikeMacMan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Why are you guys burying Hookster? He makes a very valid point. Everyone talks about hybrids saving money by using less gas. When you look at the total cost of the vehicle they just don't make financial sense. Most people aren't going to buy them just because they put out less emissions. And how environmentally friendly is replacing that giant battery pack that comes in them?
- TheAngryMob, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3They are, if you read the web site you just posted, you'll see they're bring them to the states beginning in 2008.
- BigBaRay, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3ALF,
I could not agree more with you.
Special Interest groups are potent voting blocks due to the fact that they sell their vote and will vote. Whereas the average working American is to busy with work, kids, etc to even raise up their heads to see what is going on at the federal level. America would be a much better place if the average American would let there voice be heard and not waiting until after the fact to say something.
Thats why here in Texas we will wake up someday to the shocking realization that we are being ruled by Mexicans. Folks if we leave issues up to Washington to guess at or be guided to by special interest or interests are probably not going to be protected. - velocipenguin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Buelldozer:
I think the parent post is aimed more at suburbanites who use Ford Excursions as commuter vehicles. I have no problem with people who own SUVs because they actually need them, but those who use massive off-road vehicles solely for driving on paved roads piss me off.
P.S. Consider a station wagon. - Wolfcastle, on 10/12/2007, -8/+10I think it's a great idea and I'm no barefoot wanderer.
- Lari, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3In reality, the current hybrid credit is flawed. It is set to cap out once a manufacturer sells a certain number of cars (Toyota is about to cap out, and the Prius will no longer be eligible for the credit). Meanwhile, GM is getting tax breaks for making their cars flex fuel, when 90% of the people driving them are not aware and do not have access to E85. Normally Im all about the government staying out of influencing what we purchase, but the stakes are high here (foreign oil, air quality, environmental impact), and I believe this is about raising the awareness feasibility of hybrids cars. Tax credits will encourage sales and even out the price difference, and eventually economy of scale will make high mileage cars affordable for the masses.
- guaigean, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@vandread
Ever think that maybe 20k is quite a lot for some people to spend on a car? Why should they have to do that to get preferential treatment on the road? - kawaiirobo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3ok, 1) if any of the people screaming smug would watch that episode of south park at the end stan says we should drive hybrids they are fuel efficent and good for the enviroment, just don't be an ass about it, 2) sure congress should listen to the people, but that dosne't happen anymore, so a special intrest group is the best you can do for now untill the people have an avenue (at least one someone will listen to, no reps. read emails) to voice siad opinion, 3) no, not everyone has the money to buy a hybrid, and if you don't want one don't buy one, but for those of us who do want a hybrid and don't have the money to do so there needs to be a way for us to obtain one, say with lowering prices, or tax write-offs or anything that can get these vihecles into the hands of consumers. and 4) even if the enviroment wasen't an issue, forign oil is, wheather or not this 'War' was started for oil or not, Haliburton has exclusivity to the oil fields in Iraq, and many poeple are making a profit over the bodies of our troops.
Democracy my ass. - theoallardyce, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I think local governments should find more and more cruel ways to punish SUV drivers. Hummers for example should be forced to always give way and should not be allowed in the car-pool lane unless they are completely full. There should be segregated "Green Cars Only" parking so SUV drivers will have more exercise when they have to park further away. Hummers should also have a fuel tank size limit - this is to ensure that they run out of fuel frequently and the driver is constantly reminded how much its costing them. The blood-alcohol level for DUI should be lowered for cars over a certain size and with high centers of mass because they are more dangerous and need a more sober driver (who on average is more likely to be a ***** idiot anyway)
- kawaiirobo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@theo
I like the BAC lowering for higher mass cars, but you can't punish someone for being a self ritoius ass who wants to show off his money with a shiney new hummer, remember freedom in this country also gives freedom to be an idiot. - Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I think the only "self righteous ass" around here is people who make blanket statements about SUVs.
Maybe your 14 year old city dwelling coastal area living ass doesn't see a use for them, but for those of us with families who live in the REST of the country they serve very practical purposes.
Now shutup, cupcake. - UglyAmerican, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2no my hybrid gets twice the milage of a comparable regular vehicle 30mpg on the highway. it also doesn't look like a freaking goofy looking anime spaceship.
btw the milage savings is only part of the benefit of a hybrid. It also greatly reduces emissions.
When ever government gives advantages to foreign made products thats bad. - meuserj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@sam1729
I realize that the oil companies are subsidized too, and I'm against that as well. I find it really messed up that the government both subsidizes and taxes oil. The answer to unfair subsidies isn't more subsidies. - sam1729, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The amount of subsidies that this group is getting is nothing compared to what oil companies regularly rake in. Many posters have been saying this will grow into a behemoth special-interest lobby, serving an elite class of citizens. Well guess what? Oil companies are already there. Remember when gas prices first hit $3/gallon, and there was all this speculation about "are they price-gouging?" and then that quarter, Exxon posted the largest profits of ANY CORPORATION IN HISTORY? Wake up, people.
- meuserj, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Oh great... another lobbying group that will push the government to give special subsidies for their own pet industry. Despite the good intentions, subsidies always grow into a monster eventually. This is why 'farmers' such as Dan Rather can get tax money from the government. When will consumers realize that the free market is what will eventually give them the best solution?
I'm sure I'll get dugg down for this.. not a lot of free market supporters on Digg. - gmillerd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I like to think I am on the cutting edge of fandom of the Smarts. Yeah they are bringing them here, but they cannot articulate what models (especially the ev) and they don't have a distribution brand layed out.
Hopefully after they are available here in name we can get the modern models from canada if they choose to screw it up. - Koosebane, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2To hell with hybrids.
Where the feck is the flying car they promised me? -
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