What is Digg?68 Comments
- drakethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -11/+55They are talking about Crack-Cocaine not weed. I doubt you really want to legalize that. If you do, you've never been around an area with a crack block, while it may take away the shootings involved in transactions, I doubt you have ever seen anyone on crack and what they partake in when they are "high."
Don't get me wrong, I'm not some conversative who believes shooting them on sight or forcing them to move is a good idea, just legalizing of crack seems utterly stupid. - Artifez, on 10/12/2007, -18/+57Or you could legalize it and take the distribution out of the hands of armed thugs.
But using grandma as a social lever works too. - flipside3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+35Great article. It's nice to see some real police work being done. Investigate, understand the problem, cultivate relationships with the community they serve... wow. At least someone's got it right.
I find the comments from the prosecutor, Karen Richards, a bit disturbing. Is it just me or do some folks forget that we're all human beings? Just running around busting people isn't much of a deterrent... getting them all in a room and showing them the evidence you COULD use to put them away... now that's a deterrent! - Portside, on 10/12/2007, -0/+28THAT is what the police should be about - not about simply throwing as many people into prison as they can.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25Whoever thought of that concept deserves the Nobel Peace Prize
- monkeywizard, on 10/12/2007, -6/+26Everything should be legalized for the same reason cigarettes and alcohol are legal:
It's no one else's ***** business what you do or put into your own body PERIOD.
If you want to sniff some powder because you wish to alter your consciousness and feel euphoric, go right ahead. No one has the right to tell you no.
Now is the time when people chime in some BS about "my tax dollars paying for your habit, blah blah blah" - well more of your tax dollars are currently funding:
1. Police to arrest these people
2. Judges and prosecutors to put you away
3. Prisons to hold these people
4. Rehabilitation centers for addicts
...and completely non related, quite a bit of your tax dollars are currently spend funding a pointless war.
By legalizing it, you are cutting out 1, 2, and 3, and slightly, just slightly, raising 4. Ultimately, in the long run you are saving massive amounts of money and putting street thugs out of business.
Would legalizing it make more people use? Nope. Look at alcohol and cigarettes vs. marijuana. If someone is determined to try it, they will. It being illegal won't stop them..
We have very barbaric and oppressive views in our society that we really need to break.
The reason we won't legalize it? Politics and economy. Plain and simple. Pure *****, too. - DanMcScience, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15I love it. Police that can think are my friends. Legalism really clouds our law enforcement, I think. Legalism: putting one or more laws above the spirit which those laws were created for.
- dose, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19I don't understand the double standard people have towards differing drug use. I don't think any person or group of people should be allowed to tell me what I can and cannot put into my own body. I do agree that cocaine is a completely different animal than marijuana but I don't believe in selectively pushing for legalization of one drug and not another.
And I have seen people high on cocaine in crack form, as well as people using the drug intravenously. The most common action they "partake in" is chatting my ear off incessantly and chain smoking like that 70 year old woman at your local dive bar. - Jawood, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12*"They won't have an epiphany and end up as model citizens."*
They do if you legalize it. Just ask the guys who started the liquor businesses after Prohibition.
Which is ironic, alcohol is one of the most addictive and physiologically destructive drugs out there, but it's legal. Something as benign as pot, well, a joint gets you sent to jail for a few years!
Hypocrisy! - M1ndless, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13I agree with Artifez.
The so called war on drugs is never going to end unless the drugs are legalized. Instead of spending billions to combat drug use, we could tax them to hell and actually MAKE money off of them. Drug education and rehab would cost less overall than the "war" we're fighting now.
Sadly, anyone in a position of power knows that the majority of voting Americans would disagree with this because we've all had it drilled into our brains that drugs are bad. Except of course alcohol and tobacco, which are too large of an industry to be shut down now. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Yeah, unfortunately I'm afraid those types measure their success by the number of "criminals" they put behind bars.
- lumnar, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11@drakethegreat
But that's because of crack! That's because of uncouth, antisocial people who happen to get high on crack. If you legalized crack, those people would still exist. If you made all the crack disappear in the world, those people would still exist, and they'd just get high on something else. - jumpingbeenz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9@lakawak
The mafia revolves around the drug trade... by legalizing it their would be no "armed thugs" regulating it besides the government. When have you gone to some shady dealer to buy cigarettes when you can just buy them at stores? What about alcohol? The same concept applies to drugs if they are legalized, no one would want to risk getting caught buying them from "armed thugs" f they can buy them legally at stores. I live in a city in Mexico (Monterrey) , where the drug problem is very big, people get shot in broad daylight, so I'd sure be glad to see drugs legalized, so we don't have to see this kind of violence on either side of the border. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7This was in the Wall Street Journal this morning. Front page
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7But these people have a problem. And I'm sure for most of them it started in their families.
Putting them in jail will only make them into real criminals. By doing this, they might indeed have an epiphany and realise for themselves that they've strayed from the path and start contributing constructively to society. - ArmyOfFun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I don't want to be treated by a doctor who's drunk, get a haircut by a drunk barber and I definitely don't want to ride in a taxi with driver who can't drive straight (because he's drunk).
So, why is alcohol legal and pot isn't? - psyon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6*raises hand*
And I will discuss the pros and cons of doing such things with them, just as I plan to do reguarding alcohol and cigarettes. - jeffiek, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9It's a step in the right direction. Better, yet see Law Enforcement against Prohibition at
www.leap.cc - crzdmnsldy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@lak- what the ***** are you talking about??!
@dose- it's not dumb to legalize marijuana. no one has or ever will die from it. no one has or ever will get addicted to it. no one has or ever will kill someone to get a dimebag. you should.. know what you're talking about.
@monkey- do you know how many cells are being taken up by potheads? there are guys walking the streets that rape 5 yr olds, and you think arresting someone for having some pot is okay? ***** that.
@m1n- heard of educating the public? maybe letting people know the truth about drugs? - ricree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@ZachIsHere
If you had read the article, you might have noticed that two years after this program, the drug market in that area still hasn't come back. It's pretty pathetic that people turn their noses at very effective programs simply because it isn't "tough enough". If you have some evidence that these won't work, then show it. Otherwise, please do us a favor and shut up. - DanMcScience, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5*raises hand*
Amen. - ryno35, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4 lakawak
You are an idiot if you think organized crime does not seriously benefit from prohibition. Legalizing and regulating everything is the only way to end the carnage. I'm sure when you say "Mafia" you mean well dressed Italians but the truth is organized crime is much bigger then what your refer to as the Mafia. Go read the story that came out today about the 2.1 billion in assets the Cali brothers are forfeiting to the US gov and tell me there are not obscene profits being made by organized crime. It's good times to be a well organized crime family no matter what your race and worldwide prohibition is the reason.
We sacrifice so much for our failed attempts to keep 1%-2% of people from destroying their lives. - robojames, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4wouldn't you get arrested for DUI if you were a stoned taxi driver?
then again, it doesn't seem to be a problem in montreal - crzdmnsldy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3i am very impressed with this article. good idea. surprised it worked... good deal
- Wasyu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I say this is a step in the right direction unlike everything they tried before this seems to be working and deals with the primary source of drug related violence vs the old and failed adage lock them all up.
In short I call this plan absolutely brilliant compared to previous anti drug plans which were obviously wrong headed. - babayada, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I was really glad to see this article. To see the drug issue being handled intelligently and with wisdom by officers. I think the reason why the place remained drug free was due to their approach. If they had simply arrested these people, it would have been different. They'd have simply been replaced with new dealers.
It didn't surprise me that there were meatheaded individuals who argued that this was molly coddling and that you should just arrest them. It's that macho, violent kind of thinking that fuels the situation.
It really makes me angry that stupid people continue with their stupidity and try to shoot down intelligent solutions when it's plain that the intelligent solution works and the stupid one doesn't.
I hope more and more law enforcement agencies take approaches similar to this. When you look at it, it's simply treating people like people and utilizing social forces rather than treating people like animals and using brutality. - jonesin, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6@DanMcScience:
Crack doesn't have the power to destroy communities, the price of it does, along with the armed criminals who control it. And yes, alcohol has destroyed many communities back when it was illegal and the mob was controlling it. Whole parts of the city were constantly being shot up during the incessant street warfare.
If crack cost a dollar for one dose instead of $20, crackheads would be 20x less likely to do other crimes to feed their addiction. - Irimi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This is genius.
- soulpiercer7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3We spend $69 billion dollars on prohibition every year and that number is only going to increase.
I don't think something like the mafia is going to come into play in the drug market. The whole idea seems stupid to me. People would just grow their own or get some from friends.
their would be no more violence and no more disparity about this. If you legalize it,
1. you bring all the costs down
-eliminates the need for people to steal for their habit
-takes dealers out of the picture as they can no longer make thousands of dollars off of it
2. make it safer
-during prohibition, if somebody gets robbed or attacked or anything regarding drugs, they have to settle the dispute with violence. If they try to involve law enforcement, they would be turning themselves in.
-quality standards can be set so people aren't getting sick off of bad drugs
-Their sale can be regulated.
-they can be taken off the streets and into a safer environment i.e. coffee shops.
3. stop ruining innocent people's lives
-Most of them are nonviolent
-they work and are productive citizens
-They pay taxes like everybody else
Legalization is the only sane strategy
Penn and Teller *****! War on Drugs
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3653114296815352489&q=pen+and+Teller+*****%21
The real reason Marijuana is illegal
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3774
L.E.A.P.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
http://leap.cc/ - xutopia, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Who would have thought that a liberal approach to fixing a problem would bring better solutions than going to war against it with innumerable incarcerations and costly court and prison costs. Half the prison population is there because of drugs. Imagine if you could cut that in half and put those people to some use in society.
- xfTwitch, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Show of hands... how many of you with KIDS think crack cocaine or heroine should be legal?
Nice program. Nice to see something work besides a boot on the neck. I wonder if it'd work in a much larger metro area (LA/SF)... - yaosio, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3If they legalize it then how can they steal money from people that have a .05% possibility of using money for drugs?
- SPThom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This sounds like a great idea. Not terribly different from the "good cop, bad cop" routine except the "good cops" are members of the community that have a strong chance of influencing these guys, help them find a path to cleaning up.
Wise-ass DAs might want to call this touchy-feely... "Why not throw the book at them and get it over with?" But y'know, the prison system has completely dropped the ball on any attempts at "rehabilitation", so why not throw *that* at them, the path to rehab, and skip the legal fees and the indoctrination into a lifestyle of being constantly in and out of prison?
Again, great idea. And I normally have pretty strict opinions on criminal justice, but this sounds like a pragmatic solution that can work.
BTW... RE: LEGALIZATION... Even if street drugs were legalized, street dealing would not be, and these guys would still be out there trying to deal, perhaps dealing worse stuff if they could no longer find the market to deal what they're currently dealing. So the whole legalization argument in this thread is pointless. - vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"If you do, you've never been around an area with a crack block, while it may take away the shootings involved in transactions, I doubt you have ever seen anyone on crack and what they partake in when they are "high."
I have a dealer on my street. We leave him alone because he leaves us alone.
Everyone knows it. I'm suprised there haven't been more swat raids latley. (we had one a few months ago)
Its annoying because the bums on the street come by to get their fix and the drive by shooting (only happened once) but no one will commit any crime or otherwise they know the neighbors will turn his ass in.
So he generly keeps his customer's in check at least on the street... Elsewhere is kind of *****. I've had my car broken into a few times at my old home on the "nice neighborhood".
However, I doubt getting this guy's grandmother to get on his case will do anything.
Of course in a city with over 300 muders per year (Philly) its kind of expected. - karn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@DanMcScience
Exactly everyone has an agenda, and when real facts rears its ugly head people get angry. Like arguing with cigarette smokers, most would say that second hand smoke has no effect on people, and then continue to find studies that support their point of view. Just like marijuana having a detrimental effect. Any mention of that and we all get dugg down. I mean, I smoke pot, but at least i'm not in denial as to what it does to my body and mind. - NapoleonGold, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Well thank goodness we are starting somewhere.
It's not %100 but it's a great step in the right direction.
Somehow we have this view in America that if you have money you could NEVER be a criminial, even if you commit a crime.
Being POOR in America is the worst crime one can commit. - monkeywizard, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3The logic between alcohol and crack is flawed.
Alcohol does destroy just as much IF abused. It tears families apart, people become utterly dependent on it and just ruin their lives in the exact same way.
The flaw lies in that one is legal but the other isn't.
People who abuse one drug are likely to abuse another, it's just that crack is cheaper and illegal.
While crack is more extreme in that you get the euphoric "better than sex feeling" that quickly wears away making the person crave more, that is the point, if they're so out of control everything is ruined, that INSTEAD of arresting them, they are made to go to rehab to deal with their problems - the addiction and the pressue leading up to the drug use to begin with - that we should focus on.
Each person arrested for drug use just make the cycle that much more harder to break in terms of money wasted versus combating the actual problem. - Yinepuhotep, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You forget to mention that in Japan, the total number of deaths by violence is almost identical to the number in the U.S. The only differences are the weaponry used, and the fact that when an entire family turns up dead in Japan, it's listed as "suicide", while in the U.S., it's listed as "homicide".
As for that 75% solution rate, how many of those "solved" cases would be considered legitimate in American courts? In Japanese law enforcement, to be accused is to be considered guilty, before your case ever goes to trial. It's up to you to prove you aren't, and if you actually insist on your innocence and demand a trial, the courts treat you far more harshly than they do if you simply confess (whether you are guilty or not) to whatever crime you are accused of. Given that it's up to you to prove you are innocent, I'm not surprised at the absurdly high conviction rate. It is next to impossible for even a saint to prove his innocence when the government is determined to declare him a criminal.
In American law enforcement, it's up to the prosecutor to prove you are guilty. All you have to do is show that the prosecution's case does not hold water, and if your lawyer and the jury are doing their jobs (something they do far too rarely the last few years), you'll be free, as you should be.
Just think...200 years ago, farmers in Pennsylvania went to war against the US Government when it proposed taxing whiskey, while at the same time, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and other wealthy landowners were growing marijuana and hemp side by side. Jefferson even gave directions in his notes to his plantation staff on how to treat the marijuana plants to get the best product (separate the female plants from the male plants, etc.). One hundred years ago, one of the founders of Johns Hopkins used cocaine daily for over 40 years, with the assistance of the other founders, and was considered to be one of the greatest surgeons of his time while using cocaine. Today, people wet the bed at the idea that little Johnny down the street might catch a whiff of someone's joint. Sheesh! - ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"Whoever thought of that concept deserves the Nobel Peace Prize"
Amen. Liberals, FTW!
"pot is not as benign as people believe...."
How many drunken doctors do you find? It's called malpractice. Just treat it like any other narcotic.
I haven't seen how crack functions in a system where it is legalized. I know how alcohol does in a system where it is prohibited, and that's with guns blazing and people dying and little girls carrying suitcases being blown up.
For the moment, there are some drugs that I believe are completely harmless. Pot. Some hallucinogens. For others, I would need to see tests done. - crzdmnsldy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Ya know, it's people like you, and attitudes like yours that just encourages criminals to be criminals forever.
- hellotyler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Legalization is the only sane course for the lost war on drugs and personal freedom. People are going to get high NO MATTER WHAT, you might as well cut out the criminal elements and give it to them cheaply so they don't have to resort to violence or criminal behavior.
Drug use is not good, I realize and admit this, but neither is eating a Big Mac or having too much alcohol. It's your life, your choice. - Yinepuhotep, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2In every study done of marijuana, the LD50 is so high you would have to smoke so much, so fast, you would die of carbon monoxide poisoning before you would die of any of the drug constituents of the smoke.
- JPOOPOO, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Marijuana smoking does next to nothing to your lungs.
- TruthElixirX, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Welcome to capitalism, if you prefer not ot go to them, other people who don't do drugs will have businesses you can go to.
- Democritus2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Danmc
Instead of blasting you. I would like to kindly ask you to do some research on what you just said. Then come back.
You cannot consume enough marijuana to die (through natural methods anyway). Marijuana has never been shown to cause lung cancer.
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SMOKE IT. Inhaling vapors or eating is also used. NO cancer risk whatsoever.
Now, please hit the web and do some research. - diggmanic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Killing them softly.
- monkeywizard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"@monkey- do you know how many cells are being taken up by potheads? there are guys walking the streets that rape 5 yr olds, and you think arresting someone for having some pot is okay? ***** that."
...did you even read my post? I just made a long entry about how drugs should be legalized and how it's wrong to jail people for it.
Where the hell do you get the thought I said it's okay? - crzdmnsldy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2hmm.. I thought the answer was legalize all drugs. lol
- karn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I wouldn't say that smoking marijuana is way worse than smoking tobacco. But a quick search on google definitely indicates that marijuana does have an effect on ones health (Just like inhaling any smoke would be). To declare otherwise is to be like the cigarette smokers who deny that it has an bad health effect on them. Also look up LD50. There are plenty of commonly ingested substances, that in high enough dosages can be lethal.
I really wish there would be an unbiased study done on marijuana. You have one side saying it'll kill you. And the other side saying its the cure to everything. Anyone have some decent links to studies done in places where it is legalized? - crzdmnsldy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1shut the ***** up. do your research.
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/23/1728_57309 -
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