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1072 Comments
- theuniversal, on 07/20/2009, -87/+294The top bracket of income earners derive greater benefit from the system (the entire machinery of law and government is largely in place to protect their property after all) yet do not pay their fair share of taxes. Much of their earnings is through capital gains that are taxed at a much lower rate than those paying tax on salary income. Also, the more income you earn, the more opportunities there are to reduce and avoid taxes. This is not controversial. There is an industry built upon advising the wealthiest taxpayers on how to reduce or otherwise avoid (usually legally) paying taxes.
Raising tax on the wealthiest is not a communist or socialist position. Warren Buffet, a capitalist through and through, often says that his secretary pays a higher percentage of tax than he does, and agrees that it is absurd and thinks he should be paying more. Personally, I think the top bracket should be raised and there should be an even higher tax (and the closing of loopholes) for people who earn hundreds of thousands (or perhaps millions) of dollars per year. Those who say it will kill business are out too lunch. First, there are plenty of small businesses built by people earning much less than 350,000 per year. Giving a tax break at the lower end is the real way to encourage small business. Also, throughout the 50s and other periods in US history when capitalism was thriving, the tax rate was on the highest income earners was much higher than anything being contemplated today, as shown clearly here:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/03/missing-100 ... - lanemik, on 07/20/2009, -71/+216Remind me to shed a tear for those making 350,000 to whatever billion dollars per year that they'll have to pay a percentage of taxes closer to what us lowly middle class people pay. Trickle down economics doesn't work. Time to go back to something sensible.
- theuniversal, on 07/20/2009, -25/+137The average small business owner or chief executive brings home an annual salary of $233,600, according to Salary.com's 2006 Small Business Compensation Survey. Being an average, there would of course be a very significant portion of small business owners earning less than 233,600. No doubt there are many earning less than 100,000.
So let's be clear that the tax bracket of 350,000 plus does not have the monopoly on small business. Yes, Obama has increased taxes on those earning 350,000 plus. But he's also given a tax cut to many many more Americans earning much lower incomes. I'd say that giving the people at the bottom a helping hand will be much more stimulative to small business and entrepreneurship.
I'm not a business owner, but I am in the highest tax bracket. I'm not a poor person screaming tax the rich. Your comment suggests that only people earning 350,000 plus can create small business. It's a perfect example of the way that people earning high incomes tend to give way to much credit to themselves. - elijahyossie, on 07/20/2009, -171/+281Sounds fair enough to me.
- youliveinfear, on 07/20/2009, -12/+101a large number of the rich, and especially corporations, already use tax loopholes via foreign investments/accounts to get around paying tax so what would be different? You act like the rich are already terribly burdened when, thanks to our lovely loophole infested tax code, that is not even close to reality.
- Hetman, on 07/20/2009, -21/+107The thing is the tax increases are not even that high. They are still going to be lower than they were during the Regean administration. As of right now they are the lowest they have been in a 100 years. How did that work out for us the last 8 years? Not very well.
- inactive, on 07/20/2009, -83/+168Why are people trying to protect the rich? They broke this country -- now they can pay to fix it.
- shig, on 07/20/2009, -27/+92They sure as hell can't borrow it. All their ChiCom credit cards are maxed out.
- zeitgueist, on 07/20/2009, -18/+80What person clearing $350k is running their business as a sole-proprietorship rather than an S corp? A stupid one.
Oh wait, you didn't think about that, you are the mental midget here. - ivanmarsh, on 07/20/2009, -27/+88Hey assmonkeys... the so called "surcharge" doesn't even counter the tax cuts Bush handed out.
Oh poor, poor rich people. - inactive, on 07/20/2009, -17/+76Where are they going to go? Someplace with lower taxes? Not Europe/Canada/Japan
So, are they going to go to the Middle East, some of Africa, or parts of South America? (not Brazil). That sounds great. I'm sure they'll have fun in some third world country.
Think before posting. - deema1, on 07/20/2009, -23/+80YEAH! Class warfare! Rabble, rabble, rabble, rabble...
- lettruthout, on 07/20/2009, -4/+61I am a small business owner, making less than $350K per year. My health insurance went up 72% this year. Our current system is hurting me a lot.
- Threlly1, on 07/20/2009, -13/+66Name a tax you like ?
No ?
Ok, get used to 'em then.
Just imagine, you fall ill in any state, you walk into the Hospital, richer or poorer and you are cared for.
No worry about being dumped somewhere else, nobody interrogating you about credit while you bleed to death,
never having to decide between saving only one organ because you can't afford to save both.
The hospital staff care only that you get well. period. - RuffRidr, on 07/20/2009, -86/+135What's the backup plan for when "the rich" flee to greener pastures?
- airrore, on 07/20/2009, -7/+54One day I hope to be pissed about this.
- lettruthout, on 07/20/2009, -61/+108Yes it does sound fair - as compared to giving the rich tax breaks which only made them richer (proof that "trickle down economics" did not work). The rich had a few good years under Bush, now it's time to come back to a more rational approach.
- DankBuddz, on 07/20/2009, -12/+56American's also spend the most in healthcare, while being ranked 85th in healthcare efficiency. Not to mention our defense budget is over 600 billion. Far, far beyond China, the next ranked country with around 60 billion as a defense budget. If people wanna bitch about something costing too much, maybe they should look at how our defense budget is set up, and where our tax dollars go (Blackwater, Halliburton, etc.)
- RogerStrong, on 07/20/2009, -41/+85"OMG ! They'll Tax The Rich!!!" is a straw-man arguement.
All the evidence is that government healthcare will SAVE money, and lower taxes. Even the most inefficient government bureaucracy is more efficient than the over 100 *parallel* bureaucracies in the current system.
Americans currently spend more on *taxes* than Canadians and other countries with government healthcare;
http://www.economist.com/daily/news/displaystory.c ...
That includes those Americans who are denied healthcare anyway, because they can't afford to pay a second time through out-of-pocket expenses. Or because they can't get insurance because, well, they need it. - vertinox, on 07/20/2009, -4/+45You are aware the IRS taxes US citizens overseas until they renounce their citizenship.
- m1ndcrime, on 07/20/2009, -43/+82Give me a flat tax, please.
- DankBuddz, on 07/20/2009, -22/+59Feel free to enlighten us with an economic philosophy that doesn't involve taxation. No matter how you slice it, taxes are redistrubuted one way or another.
- PWoT, on 07/20/2009, -27/+64So what does the scare quotes around "the rich" mean? That 350 grand a year isn't rich?
If you're in the upper 1% of income earners in the world, yeah, you're rich. Sorry. I know you don't feel rich because you have friends with bigger boats and bigger heated swimming pools than you. But in the grand scheme of things, you're rich.
You can pay more. You should pay more. - CanadianCheese, on 07/20/2009, -16/+52What? People who make mroe money pay a higher rate of taxes? WHEN DID THIS START?
THIS IS AN OUTRAGE. - sinrtb, on 07/20/2009, -26/+58Hrmm I was on the receiving end of the recession and my tax dollars went to their bailout. I have no sympathy for them sorry.
- zeitgueist, on 07/20/2009, -12/+42LOL where are those greener pastures? We have the lowest taxes in the 1st world.
- richardtallent, on 07/20/2009, -10/+39The motivation is in the other 40%.
Your math is just plain wrong. Taxes are bracketed. The $400,000 earner pays the *same* tax as the $200,000 earner on the *first* $200,000 they make, even if they have to pay a higher rate on the next $200,000 earned that same year. (The actual brackets don't start or stop at $200,000.) - vertinox, on 07/20/2009, -7/+36Small business are paying a lot for healthcare costs as it is now. If the government paid for it all then small business owners would make a lot more money.
Course you'd have to tax someone else for the money to pay.
Just saying... - inactive, on 07/20/2009, -9/+38Trickle down *never* worked.
- algaeturd, on 07/20/2009, -25/+53Eat the rich.
The middle class has taken the burden of the government for the past century...why do so many people shed tears when the rich have to pay their fair share?
It's funny that people think if the 'rich' have to pay their share, it's 'punishing the rich,' but if the middle class get the ***** taxed out of them, they're 'doing their duty.' - oldhick, on 07/20/2009, -73/+101lol, I'm sure it does! Being on the receiving end makes it seem very fair eh?
- BridgeBurner, on 07/20/2009, -9/+36How about we start with aggressively investigating and prosecuting Medicare and Medicaid fraud and then see how much health care will cost?
- Delt3030, on 07/20/2009, -8/+33So your answer is to keep giving them free breaks and replace that tax load onto the poor and middle-class that already are struggling? Companies are greedy and selfish, and everytime you give them a foot of breathing room, they will get bigger and demand more. There comes a point where enough is enough. Look at Oregon. Companies there like Nike pay taxes of $10 a year, and look at their infrastructure! There schools are crumbling because they don't have the revenue to keep up public utilities. Silicon Valley may have emptied, but letting them strongarm California politicians into submission is not the answer
- D3L3T3D, on 07/20/2009, -14/+39Been on the receiving end for a while, if you know what I mean
- oldhick, on 07/20/2009, -33/+58Completely baseless. Way to fear-monger. Just allow yourself to be consumed by reactionary fear... Rich people did it! Get 'em!!!
lol... Pathetic. Reminds me of a times in other nations histories when groups of people became the targets of the baseless accusations made by the inept and the scared as they were manipulated. - inactive, on 07/20/2009, -47/+72I just gotta know what kind of small business you run, because most people that cry about the small business owners being taxed out of a lively hood aren't small business owners just sheep following the republican talk boxes.
- MrColdheart, on 07/20/2009, -13/+38Now imagine if the low and middle class didn't pay their share in taxes relative to the wealthiest.
- ChuckDees, on 07/20/2009, -4/+28Why does congress redistribute my wealth to halliburton kbr and blackwater?
- MrColdheart, on 07/20/2009, -8/+32I don't think the healthcare tax equates to 50% of their earnings being confiscated.
- laserdog, on 07/20/2009, -2/+26I recommend reading the 538 link in the parent's post.
It is a pretty compelling reasoning behind *adding* a tax bracket above the current highest 375k one.
Someone making a $400k and someone making 10 million dollars really should be in different brackets.
"Tax the Celebrities!" =) - Xzelick, on 07/20/2009, -5/+28Only if you are dumb enough to pocket over 350k in cash a year instead of reinvesting in your business. You can also always throw 15k in your 401k =P
- Pseudorious, on 07/20/2009, -71/+93Then buy a gun, stand in a dark alley and be honest about what you are doing.
Redistribution is theft with the government as your henchman who enforcing the looting, crime-lord who calls the shots for a 10% cut, and crooked judge who takes another 10% to let itself off. - Dumbledorito, on 07/20/2009, -28/+50So you're saying that the rich have been in an alley with a tank pointed at you, and a bunch of guys with glocks to the heads of your family, then?
News flash: The rich get public money, undeservedly, on a massive scale. And they use their wealth and influence to get more and more and more. They use that wealth to avoid the tax code the rest of us have to pay.
I can't believe you're that delusional. - kigcoopa84, on 07/20/2009, -58/+80So you people really thinks the government is intitled to 60% of what ANYONE makes? 60%?!?!? More than half of your years earnings? Really? So when you are making 200,000 a year you are bringing home more than someone making 400,000 a year. You people think thats fair? Where is the motivation to climb to the top?
- lettruthout, on 07/20/2009, -1/+23"For most people, that money was still considered "income" at one time, so it's being taxed more than once."
No... The original capital is not taxed again. Only the profit made off the capital is taxed. - mille716, on 07/20/2009, -3/+25"But instead I have to pay nearly $500,000 of MY income while you will not pay ANYTHING! It's jacked! Why even try to succeed in this country?"
Um, because you still have $500,000 more.
You avoided theuniversal's main point though, the fact that the wealthy don't actually pay more in taxes due to the many loopholes in the system. I'll use his example of Warren Buffett. Buffett has offered $1 million to any CEO of a fortune 500 company that pays a higher tax rate than their secretary. No one has taken the free million. That should tell you something.
http://blog.buzzflash.com/contributors/1410 - KaivenTor, on 07/20/2009, -9/+30I have a couple questions bothering me.
When was the last time the government willingly lowered taxes because of the efficiency of a program?
And shouldn't we be taking a long hard look at the tax system while we try to figure out the healthcare system? It would seem that they would hand in hand at this point if we're looking to increase taxes to pay for it. - Rotzooi, on 07/20/2009, -10/+31I am sitting here in my double-wide trailer and I AM OUTRAGED!
- BotchaMcCoola, on 07/20/2009, -36/+57Good question. My guess is we will have to go back to capitalism like Russia and China did.
- scoottie, on 07/20/2009, -43/+64"The taxes would start with people making $350,000" and quickly move down to everyone
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