What is Digg?37 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+28Since they received a few hundred billion in contracts through KBR and Halliburton, I wonder if they pulled the eight million out of the petty cash box.
- gronne, on 10/12/2007, -5/+25That's all? What about all of the money Americans got screwed out of because Bush wouldn't let other companies compete with Halliburton's prices?
- DemandJustice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14The $8 million fine is a joke considering Halliburton was CAUGHT overcharging tax-payers $1.5 BILLION
June 2005:
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6684
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=12476
Make no mistake about it- this judgement is a joke upon the American people. Congress knows full well that halliburton was caught stealing from us, and their punishment is a 0.5% fine of the money they stole?!
Halliburton should be liquidated, the board of directors bank accounts confiscated and the proceeds should be put towards infrastructure, renewable energy jobs in America. In allowing Halliburton to get away with it, Congress is an accessory to the crime. - oOLiquidNightOo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16his comment might have been a bit pedestrian but the spirit of what he's saying is true. haliburton was granted exclusive contract(s) prior to the actual war.
there were no competing bidders, it has also been proven that, in some instances, haliburton's figures were inflated by as much as 50%.
if you can't see a conflict of interest here, it's not worth debating. - oxyrubber, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I wonder how much they made in interest on the $8 million in the 6+ years...
If they own any credit card companies, they could have made a 100% return. - taylorhayward, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10The total Halliburton has made from the war so far? 11.4 Billion dollars. To put this in perspective, this fine is less than one hundredth of a percent of what they've made off the war.
The complete facts.
http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/resources.aspx?act=total
Mad yet? Let Halliburton know how you feel. It's cathartic.
http://tinyurl.com/ygjuzk - headco10, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9It wouldn't surprise me if the government spent $10 million on auditing to find that out.
- prot0col, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@AlwaysDuggDown
The point is that there ARE other companies out there that can do the job...that is why KBR has sub-contracts that do most of the work. Catch a clue. I do think that KBR was well qualified (from what I have read) for the job but that doesn't mean that they should get the contract without bidding for it. - Joe_rigby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5In my opinion, it's not enough for their incompetence and those in power who awarded them no-bid contracts.
- nigeltufnel, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Halliburton, as in Dick Cheney's previous employer Halliburton...?
Gee, go figure they get away with all this... - spurtle, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6What the sad part is that after we were screwed by Halliburton under Clinton, Bush still stuck with them.
Clinton/Bush, same *****. - oOLiquidNightOo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8see:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/25/60minutes/main551091.shtml
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/22/60minutes/main595214.shtml - mlock2k, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7So this basically rounds off to about docking them three weeks pay. Seems fair.
- phineous, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6This is nothing compared to what is going on now. Go take a look at http://iraqforsale.org/
and learn about cost plus contracts. It's such a great time to be a gov't contractor that I'm movin' to DC baby! - Alphabet, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8@VolatileWhimsy
ahh, I see what you're doing. I'll do the same thing too. *Sticks fingers in ears and starts singing "lalalalalala..."* - Bushlied, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Will someone please burn down Halliburton along with every other so-called soldier for hire organization. At one point in time mercenary groups were illegal. Now there practically a part of our military. Nothin like being the VP of America and owning a merc operation. Must fill the pockets pretty well.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5KBR = Killing Bombing and Rifles
Halliburton's bitch = cheney
gwbush = ***** should be impeached for incompetence - slamm6, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Let's hope this is only the beginning.
- isukeyo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3russdavis:
"double-billing, inflating prices and providing products that didn't fit the Army's needs during the construction of Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo."
How do you translate that to "losing money?" What KBR did was STEAL money. I agree that when governments or private company's take on such large jobs that mistakes are possible and money is often lost (although that is still not ok. When such things happen, someone has to be held accountable no matter how big and complicated these projects are), but money was NOT LOST! IT WAS STOLEN!
As for your statement about security clearance and how it's not easy to get, "KBR has this while many agencies don't". The very point is in your own statement - MOST. The are other company's according to your statement that do - why weren't they offered a chance to bid? You seems to be the expert, so enlighten us.
You try and come across as someone who's rationally considering both sides, yet you argue that government losing money is the equivalent of a private company stealing it from US tax payers!! What about the fact that they are being fined a fraction of what they STOLE!
"that the $8M in over billing is a small fraction of the overall project." 8 Million is what they were fined not what they overbilled. The article does not mention what they overbilled.
"I would invite everyone to take some time away from the 'I hate Bush' fan club for a minute and look at figures and facts. Educate yourself on the issue, then post based upon facts, not conjecture."
-- interesting advice, you should try it someday! - Yage2006, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Halliburton's exec's should be thrown in jail for treason
- MrColdheart, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3we're dealing with billions or trillions and they get fined 8 millions
- josegutz, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5@ gronne
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!! - zengonzo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1 Holy crap!
Can you imagine how much the government would be bilked out of if it didn't even do that supposed ten million of auditing?! - MusicalGenius, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4DOWN WITH THE BUSH CHENEY REGIME!!!
- Samiyam, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3So how long until the refund on the Iraq overbilling?
- russdavis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1RTFA
- russdavis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@isukeyo
Have you ever worked on large government projects before? Accounting is a nightmare in just about any company of KBR's size. You act like there's an evil suit wringing his hands as he adds QTY 2 instead of QTY 1 of a building. It just doesn't happen like that, frankly. Very often 100s of people are working on the billing of a large project -- mistakes happen. If there was a nefarious intent, $8M in fines would be offset by the jail time the staff responsible would do. A good example of this fraud would be here ( http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2005/March/05_crm_126.htm ). KBR employee STOLE and is now being brought to justice. The company returned the money and the person of interest was fired and indicted. Blatant fraud is prosecuted, billing errors are fined. It's an ugly truth of life -- mistakes happen and the company was fined for these mistakes. It happens ( http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/26/iraq/main613880.shtml ). KBR wasn't the only company fined, yet they're the ones vilified when the news comes out.
LOGCAP was already awarded years ago in the Clinton administration. KBR had the contract and when Iraq came up, instead of swapping out the meal service, entertainment, fuel supply, etc for the army, they went with someone who was ready to deploy on the military's time line. Regardless if clearance (which I still take issue with you on), Halliburton/KBR was ready to go *then* -- it would have taken six months (at least).
This should be an a-political issue, but lots of people (particularly those on Digg) don their tinfoil hats any time 'Bush', 'Iraq', 'KBR', 'Cheney' or 'Halliburton' and start spouting the ideas of a mass government conspiracy. Honestly, I've worked with the government for a long time -- they aren't that smart to pull off such. Don't say we should 'burn down' a company or have anyone brought up on 'treason' charges. It's been going on for years -- it's accounting mistakes. It's like balancing your checkbook and being off $5.72 for the starbucks you bought but forgot to write down in your check register -- except we're dealing with millions of transactions and millions of dollars. It's simply an economy of scale.
Overbilling happens, contracts are awarded sometimes without a bid in a time of war, and life isn't perfect. Deal, cope and move on. - isukeyo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1read the article cockbag, or at the very least the summary! 8 Million - with an M!
- VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -8/+9That's it?!?!?!?!? wtf!!!!!!!!! They gouged us horribly and basically spit on us. I dislike this country, honestly I think this company, it is public enemy 1 in the U.S., ok maybe number 2 after the terrorists, no maybe number 3 after the people that DON'T WANT ME TO CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS OR HAVE A DAMN PARADE. ahem.
gronne, do you have facts to back up "Bush wouldn't let other companies compete with Halliburton's prices? " - russdavis, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3The negative opinion of KBR (and most things supposedly "Bush-related") makes me think this comment will be commented down pretty quickly. But, here goes:
I don't want to be the one guy who posts to this article who comes across as being 'pro' KBR. What a can tell you is that the size of these projects is staggering -- billions of dollars are spent. I'm, personally, not sure how much the Balkans project the article spoke of was valued at. I would wager, however, that the $8M in over billing is a small fraction of the overall project.
LOGCAP is an important, money-saving project for the Government. KBR, under this contract, hands logistics with greater efficiency and more cheaply than the pentagon can. Let's say, for a second, that there's a $1B contract out there, if a company like KBR can go and do the project and lose $10M of the government's money the processes, that's only 1% loss. Heck, even if they lose $100M, it's only 10%. Let's compare that with the Pentagon who (according to a FY2000 DoD internal audit by the inspector general) $1.1 Trillion (with a T) dollars out of the $4.4 Trillion dollars allocated to the Pentagon could not be accounted for by "reliable explanatory information and audit trails".
In that scenario, I'd take the private company over the Government any day of the week and twice on Sunday. As a US taxpayer, these losses are unacceptable. However, who else is going to do the work?
And to respond to the poster who mentioned that security clearances are easy to get, I would ask does he (1) have a clearance of any kind and (2) what makes him think they are 'easy' to get. It's not a matter of obtaining security clearances, it's having them IN PLACE. KBR has this while many agencies don't.
Also, KBR doesn't subcontract out a lot of there work which was indicated by another poster. They handle the strong majority of the work themselves -- having personally worked on government contracts myself, if you are awarded a contract you, in almost every case I've ever seen, can't subcontract out 'secret' clearance or better work.
I'm not a huge fan of KBR, but they do a decent job and they do it more efficiently than the government can do it. Their margins are usually very very small on LOGCAP projects, so even if the project is costing billions, if I'm making 1-5%, I can still lose money on some projects.
I would invite everyone to take some time away from the 'I hate Bush' fan club for a minute and look at figures and facts. Educate yourself on the issue, then post based upon facts, not conjecture. - InetRoadkill, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Security clearances are easy to get. It should not be a hindrance to the competive bid process.
- ClosedCaption, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1How could they pay back anything for over-billing? Wasnt that always a liberal talking point from Bush haters?
I know, this was a Activist Judge right? - ahhell, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Just 8 billion?
So they probably got away with trillions. Didn't the government "misplace" trillions of war dollars. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4"It also is surprising to learn that (KBR) is apparently the only company capable of performing this work in possession of the requisite security clearances," said Rep. Henry Waxman of California, the top Democrat on the House Government Reform Committee.
Soooo.....how would you conspiracy guys suggest that Bush handle this? Allow companies that aren't capable of doing the job to bid....or allow companies without the proper security clearance to bid?
Why are you so riled up by this, but not the fact that the government requires us all to pay failing public schools, even if we accept the "bid" of more successful private schools and decide to pay that as well? Give me a break. - VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3No, you're being an ass...
I am not going to believe every little thing I read.
If you had reading comprehension you would have seen I dislike Haliburtin and believe they stuck it to us without even saying thank you.... - svtfocus, on 10/12/2007, -12/+4I love it when people think this is only done by Bush when it was Clinton who gave the contract to Halliburton and took it away from DynCorp who won the contract legally. There where no complaints then.
Quote from Wikipedia:
"Although DynCorp had won LOGCAP II back in 1994, [2] President Clinton instead chose KBR and thus the Balkans Support Contract was created/awarded to KBR in February, 1999. [3] Even though the LOGCAP program is specifically for contingency operations such as the Balkans, there was no fanfare and negligible media coverage about KBR picking up that contract; however the Balkans work is sometimes mistakenly mentioned as being part of LOGCAP."
This Contract was Clintons doing not Bush's - VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -15/+2I can see the conflict of interest, but I hate finger pointing for the sake of it...
Those articles almost seem like sensalitionism.. :/ or however it is spelt..
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