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297 Comments
- wjappe, on 01/28/2009, -7/+100Where are they planning to get the money from?
Hope they have a magic wand. - sheeplescareme, on 01/28/2009, -20/+102the government cannot create wealth or jobs; they can only take from the private sector at a loss and redistribute it. the recent rash of bailouts has doomed a few more generations of americans to a lifetime of unpayable debt; slavery.
http://digg.com/business_finance/Here_are_200_econ ... - TheEngineer2008, on 01/28/2009, -17/+76LOL at these ecommunists -- oops, I mean economists -- who think deficit spending is the cure. Government pending isn't the cure. Government spending is the problem. After all, why isn't the current massive federal spending acting as a stimulus?
IMO, we ought to reduce taxes, reduce spending, and abolish the Fed. - inactive, on 01/28/2009, -16/+64Since the USA left the gold standard behind, money is a form of debt. It is a loan. Money is created when it is borrowed from the Feds. The government mints the paper for which the Feds create the money. The Feds are the major banks of the economy... Bank of America, Citigroup, and others... which are able to take the minted paper and print the loan amounts on the paper. It is a system that nearly creates money out of thin air. This part of it is not the main problem, however.
The problem is that the Feds then charge the government an interest rate on the debt -- the created money. Before the Feds, there was the U.S. Central bank. It didn't charge an interest like the Feds. That debt was paid back to the Central bank, and the bank was shut down. Now the Feds exist, and if you think about it you may wonder... how do you pay back the debt. Lets say the gov borrows only one $1 (created by a loan from the Feds) and the Feds charge an interest on that one dollar. When the gov turns the dollar back in to pay off the debt, there is still the interest left over. Anotherwords, still in debt but with no money left to pay off the debt.
It is a failed system and this is why Iceland went bankrupt.
Once you know that it is completely beyond the ability to pay back the debt (*Ahem* bush era) then you know the fact the the U.S. economy as it exists will eventually go bankrupt. At the current rate... the rumor is in 10 years. Therefore, there is a big push to get the U.S. off the failed system and on to a new solution, like a resource based economy. The bailout is suppose to help delay the inevitable. They obviously want to solve this in five years or to find ways to extend the rumored 10 years to somewhere way down the line.
It is possible to cleanly transition from the failed system and move to a new economic system. Before Bush, no one (or at least most of the people) would have thought it was needed to be done. - JackpotCity, on 01/29/2009, -3/+36This bailout business is going to have some serious repercussions and is really beginning to freak me the hell out.
- inactive, on 01/29/2009, -5/+36Your children are going to pay it over the next twenty years. Please thank them for us.
- kemp34, on 01/29/2009, -3/+28If the US$ crashes, which is not outside the realm of possibility, you will see serious chaos in America.
We need a return to Jeffersonian diffusion of economy and political power. Localism. The economy is toast regardless, folks need to hunker down with their communities to solve problems locally. - inactive, on 01/29/2009, -12/+36Paul Krugman, now officially brilliant since he won the Nobel Prize for economics, (LOL) recently asked for two or three trillion dollars in the stimulus bill! For real, I'm not making it up.
Don't these dangerous morons realize the re-inflating an unsustainable economy just postpones and aggravates the inevitable hard landing that awaits us? - kaelyiesta, on 01/29/2009, -3/+27Bets on whether this is the same type of group of economists that claim the new dealers policies helped during the great depression, give nobel prizes for economics to Keynesians(or neo-Keynesians like Krugman), and said we were doing just fine in 2006?
These guys breed like flies on the ***** pile that is our government. - inactive, on 01/29/2009, -2/+23So the choice is submit to paying incredible debt for which you were never consulted or leave the country.
You don't think that is slavery. Hmmmmm... maybe not. What would you call it?
How can we morally punt our responsibilities to the next generation?
How can you be so sanguine about something that is so inherently immoral? - iceman0113, on 01/29/2009, -7/+28As a college graduate with an economics degree, I, for one, am against a bigger bailout. Where is the money going to come from? Throwing money at the problem does not simply make it go away and printing money only devalues the dollar even more. Get rid of hedge funds if you want to start. Hedge funds are basically insurance against risk, which is the dumbest idea I have ever heard of in my life. There is nothing without risk in this world, especially in stocks and creating your own business. The first day of economics you learn that there is risk and you do what you can to minimize risk in a rational way, not buy hedge funds to offset your risk.
- kemp34, on 01/29/2009, -2/+23SUBMIT OR LEAVE.
The new mantra of American "Freedom". - inactive, on 01/29/2009, -9/+29The accumulated debt by the end of the first term of the Obama Presidency will be over 15 trillion dollars. The tax burden that we will have left on the next generation will be on the order of over one hundred thousand dollars for each one of them.
Federally funded schools mean Federally managed schools. That means that American schools will continue to be political in nature, providing the worst education in the developed world at the highest cost. - wjappe, on 01/29/2009, -1/+20In the end someone (guess who) pays for it sooner or later.
The one that are in charge, the elected ones (the ones we (ha) voted for) and the appointees ( which we have even less control over) are very good at putting out the fire with gasoline. - sheeplescareme, on 01/29/2009, -3/+21consume! don't think!
war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength! - sheeplescareme, on 01/29/2009, -4/+22that number doesn't take into account promised spending for social security, medicare, etc. that debt is estimated to be >fifty trillion dollars.
a nation of idiots by design?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7398714418 ...
http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/MomsPDFs/DDDo ... - inactive, on 01/29/2009, -2/+19Beautiful comment brother.
Jefferson did not see America as a country with wage slaves working for giant corporations but rather a nation of farmers and artisans and intellectuals working for themselves.
With the new digital technology we can get back to that Jeffersonian type of economy, but you won't hear about that on the corporate media and the TwoParty will never talk about how the regulations and the tax code and government handouts strengthen the large corporations.
I have come to believe that there is no hope for the United States of America. The hope for Americans will be the fracturization of this country after economic collapse. The smaller countries that appear then may offer freedom and dignity to their citizens - spyd3rweb, on 01/30/2009, -4/+21NO MORE BAILOUTS!!!
- curtisag, on 01/29/2009, -5/+21They subscribe to the free-lunch theory of economics and Government. What they don't realize or ignore is the fact that the poor people they supposedly care so much about protecting are hurt the most by such inflationary policies. Inflation is a tax on all people, but it taxes and hurts the poor the most, because they are in the weakest position to preserve wealth and buying power.
- radu79, on 01/29/2009, -3/+18I don't mind increasing your taxes, if you feel like you should contribute more, I am sure you can just send more money to the IRS, they won't complain. Just declare a higher income :)
But I don't want the government to waste my hard earned money. - richmomz, on 01/30/2009, -1/+16""The U.S. government has a technology, called a printing press..." -Ben Bernanke, Fed Chairman
Someone needs to tell Ben that he can't print prosperity. - jhails, on 01/30/2009, -0/+15The bulk of the bailout money is going straight into the pockets of organized crime. I include the IMF in my definition of organized crime. I'm absolutely serious about this.
- Phernoree, on 01/30/2009, -4/+18It is high time to enact the Monetary Reform Act:
"ELEMENTS OF MONETARY REFORM
1. Pay of the national debt with debt-free U.S. Notes (or Treasury department credits convertible to U.S. Notes).
2. Abolish Fractional Reserve Banking.
3. Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the National Banking Act of 1864.
4. Withdraw the U.S. from tbe IMF, the BIS and the World Bank. "
Then, abolish the Income Tax.
http://mailstar.net/money-masters.html - inactive, on 01/30/2009, -5/+19Why won't Keynesianism just die?
- odigity, on 01/29/2009, -2/+15Wrong. I don't think we'll last those four years. The accumulated debt will be 0, because that's what happens when you default or die.
That debt was never intended to be paid. And furthermore, it ain't mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK6SS4ETHWQ - AdeleMor, on 01/28/2009, -4/+17the current stimulus isn't working because of where the money went under paulson, and how it is being used. the bailout has to go hand in hand with regulation of previously unchecked sectors of the market (see: HEDGE FUNDS, CREDIT DERIVATIVES) in order for it to be used properly.
right now the fed wont disclose where its money has gone past blanket statements of "this many billion to X" and "that many billion to Y" etc - inactive, on 01/29/2009, -7/+19God forbid we increase spending and decrease taxes, placing us into deeper debt. It's a simple accounting concept, so why not cut spending and taxes? Ah yes, because Keynesian theory goes something like "spend, borrow, repeat".
Keynesian economics FTL! - PhantomRogue, on 01/29/2009, -2/+14Not only should we reduce spending. If you look a tthe Costs of the Government, the frivolous Wars we wage are the problem.
War on Drugs, War on Terror. You cut, or eliminate them, you free up Hundreds of Billions which can go to infrastructure.
And not only go to Infrastructure, but to go Government funding of Education. Government grants and scholarships to train Welders, HVAC Technicians, Farmers, Plumbers, Electricians... the backbones of our society. Liberal Arts Colleges is not for everyone, but the funding to further ones education should be.
The only way to break the US out of this funk is by being SMART, not by being foolish. Its by being smarter with the money you have. Reduce Income Tax across the board, remove government spending on archaic institutions, Put more money into Biomedical Research and NASA and less into Medical Welfare. Spend wisely not willy-nilly. - TheEngineer2008, on 01/29/2009, -3/+15I think we should reduce the overall tax burden. That would involve reducing or repealing the income tax, certainly.
- phosphite, on 01/30/2009, -0/+12One TRILLLION dollars!! :-0_
- inactive, on 01/29/2009, -1/+12That is a lot of papers and inks.
- JiveRabbit, on 01/30/2009, -1/+12Excuse me sir, who provided NASA's original funding?
- inactive, on 01/28/2009, -1/+12Reduce income tax, right? I know many mean well but they miss the "income" bit.
- inactive, on 01/30/2009, -4/+15Yes because historically there were no problems with the gold standard - right? What happens when your current account is severely skewed towards imports? You need to trade with large exporting country X, except that country X controls a major portion of the gold supply (ie a large net exporter). You're now at the mercy of country X. Let's not even mention how difficult it would be to expand your economy if there's only a very small percentage of gold versus the currency demanded. But go ahead, believe in this fairy tale because Ron Paul told you so.
http://www.currencytrading.net/2008/what-would-a-r ... - daGUY, on 01/30/2009, -0/+11I'm not an economist by any means, but when the country already has a $1 trillion debt...where is this $1.2 trillion for a bailout going to come from? Wouldn't injecting an extra $1.2 trillion *that doesn't exist* into the economy cause massive inflation? And how do you pay this off? With another bailout?
- Barackalypse, on 01/30/2009, -4/+15Because liberals are always looking for ways to to spend your money on their schemes and J.M. Keynes gives them an excuse to do it in recessions.
- sheeplescareme, on 01/29/2009, -4/+14declare your sovereignty and become a freeman on the land.
no worries about the unpayable debt here. it really isn't mine, either. - inactive, on 01/29/2009, -2/+12We have an economy based on consumption, we make the economy work by serving each other caramel macchiattos.
We have an annual current accounts deficit of 800 billion. We import way more than we export
We have an annual budget deficit of 750 billion. We are mortgaging the future of our children.
We have a negative personal savings rate
We continue to lose manufacturing jobs.
WE CAN'T RE-INFLATE THE F**KING BALLOON!!!
The economy has to come back down, the longer that we wait to face the pain, the worse it will be. - NomortaL1, on 01/30/2009, -0/+10the Fed isnt a part of the US govt though...
- richmomz, on 01/30/2009, -0/+10Correct, but Mr. Bernanke doesn't want people to make that connection either.
- Moonkeeper, on 01/29/2009, -3/+12Won't be enough. We need a bailout of one gillion-zillion dollars.
- kronzdigg, on 01/30/2009, -5/+13Bushbama Bushbama Bushbama. Lets see, my credit cards are maxed out (national debt); my house is in poor repair(poor infrastructure); I have children off at expensive schools(wars and bases all over the world); my wife wants cosmetic surgery again(nationalizing healthcare); and I'm about to get fired (world wants their U.S. bonds re-payed). I have a great Idea LETS SPEND MORE MONEY THAT WILL SOLVE MY PROBLEM.
Good bye USA - inactive, on 01/30/2009, -3/+11Keynesian = FAIL.
- inactive, on 01/29/2009, -0/+8The pirates will appear weekly, the Jolly Roger flapping in the breeze, to demand their tribute. Unless Americans rise up and defeat them.
- inactive, on 01/29/2009, -2/+10The ballon only exists in the monetary system. Resource based economies are the future.
- kemp34, on 01/29/2009, -3/+11Honestly, their entire argument can be summed up in the following sentence:
"Use the printing press." - richmomz, on 01/30/2009, -0/+8You're right, we should just keep our mouths shut and let the "experts" handle it because they've done such a fine job so far...
- GeorgeTirebiter, on 01/30/2009, -0/+7As the saying goes, "In for a penny, In for a quadrillion dollars".
- sheeplescareme, on 01/29/2009, -2/+9the "wars" are indeed the problem, but they are made possible only because of the size of the government. saving money by cutting unneccessary spending is the right idea, but taking money from productive citizens and giving it back to the same corrupt and nonproductive politicians is not the answer. putting it where it belongs, in the hands of the individual and the entrepreneurs, is where freedom and prosperity lies.
- deema1, on 01/30/2009, -3/+10You don't have to be an economist to know that spending multiples more than you're making is a recipe for disaster. You can't let things get out of hand for almost a decade and then try to spend our way out of it.
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