What is Digg?145 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -11/+62Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither
--Benjamin Franklin - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+43You're forgetting the final line in Orwell's book:
"He loved Big Brother"
Thats how it is at the moment. People really do believe they are safer, which is about as misguided a belief as one could possibly have! - heyiquit, on 10/12/2007, -5/+38No sir, I don't like it.
It's kind of interesting to think about how easy it is to forfeit your rights for a little security. How would one go about objecting to something like this? Or better yet, how DIDN'T somebody object to this?! Britain banned the right to own guns and instead they put operation 1984 in to action? What the funk. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+37Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
George wrote his books and most of us have read them. Many of us read them back in 1984 when we figured he was smoking some of that really good ***** out of KY. Here we are at 2006 and we realize that he knew something back when he put pen to paper. Most people are sniveling shells who would sell their family down the river just to have some semblance of security. Liberty has become a word that is thrown around by folks who have no experience with it since we haven't been in a state of true liberty since Lincoln took care of that back during the Civil War. He was kind enough to abolish state's rights and personal liberty using whatever means necessary. I wish I would have been the one to put the bullet in his head back then.
Watch history, study it and figure out how NOT to repeat it.
Those who snivel and demand security over liberty? I've got the perfect solution for you: JAIL. You'll be secure, you'll be fed, you'll have a place to sleep, you'll have cable TV and every other thing that keeps you quiet. Halliburton has already built these facilities for you. Enjoy them once you get there. Once you do get there, please shut the ***** up and let those of us who have decided we won't trade our liberty for security do what we have to do.
Don't like what I have to say? Good. Neither do I. However, I will not trade my liberty for a false sense of security. I want to be able to look Patrick Henry in the eyes in the afterlife. - scratched, on 10/12/2007, -4/+30Cameras and DNA databases are not quite what 1984 was trying to warn us about.
If you read the book, you'll learn that it is more about the government outright lying and then making sure to remove all evidence that could reveal that lie. And keeping the nation constantly at war with some foreign nation in order to make the country's citizens feel a sense of "unity" and restricting people's thoughts and actions, among other things.
Thinking that cameras and databases are 1984 means you either didn't read the book or totally missed the point of the book.
EDIT: argh, Brightside beat me to it... - cjsedwards, on 10/12/2007, -10/+36 They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up. - kakwakas, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23How didn't anyone in the US object to the way (and reasons for) wiretapping can be done now?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+23Do you honestly think the British gov't will stop where they are?
They will slowly introduce new methods of control if this keeps up.
Take off your tin foil hat and grab your black mask. - cjsedwards, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.
- Xanadude, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15"How didn't anyone in the US object to the way (and reasons for) wiretapping can be done now?"
Actually, lots of people objected. The ACLU and People for the American Way have reported record donations, and the Bush Administration seems to be losing a lawsuit at least once a week. Not to mention the many, many cases coming up for trial in 2007.
The only thing Bush has accomplished with these wiretaps is incurring a lot of legal defense hours for the AG's office. - lolSTG, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13we've always been at war with terrorism
- dgh1973, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I always thought our invasion of Iraq was rather Orwellian...
"The enemy is Osama Bin Laden, it has always been Osama Bin Laden..."
"The enemy is Saddam Hussein, it has always been Saddam Hussein..."
I'll bet a fair number of people out there in the U.S. would probably say "yes" if asked whether or not Saddam Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attacks. - kettle, on 10/12/2007, -10/+21"Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security will soon have neither.
--Ben Franklin"
A wikiquote search suggests that this is not quite an accurate citation:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin
The only quote that has been reliably linked to Franklin appears to be:
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."
I know, it's pendantic - but when it's so easy to check up on things... - kapsar, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Interestingly enough, 1984 is extremely similar to a Russian novel that came out before the book. It's called WE by Yevgeny Zamyatin. They are both interesting books, have the same sort of twist at the end. The major difference is that everything in WE is control by precise mathematics. Also instead of needing cameras all the buildings are made of glass, rooms in an apartment are completely glass including the floor. But in both books people try to fight back against the oppression, so hopefully we'll end up doing that in the near future. We desperately need too.
- mfratt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Orwell was only about, I'd say, 30-40 years off. Even in the US (apparently even more so in the UK), we are already seeing the beginnings of what may turn into an Orwellian society. If left unchecked, I honestly believe that we (US, UK, whatever) will wind up there.
And on the note of "He loved Big Brother", may I offer a quote from Johann Wolfgang von Goethe: "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free." - Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9"But so long as they are used responsibly, they can have large benefits"
The problem is usually that the society at large has no way to assure this for security reasons. - blakemara, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Sonycam (your name is quite ironic),
I'd like to know, where would you draw the line?
How far would you let the government into your personal life before you felt your privacy was invaded? - Brightside, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14Thank you scratched, glad to see another level headed digg user!
- MaxPayne3476, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Simply Put:
You live for average - 75 years. Use that time to live, not worry about your death. - TheSkinsFactory, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Scratched said: "If you read the book, you'll learn that it is more about the government outright lying and then making sure to remove all evidence that could reveal that lie. And keeping the nation constantly at war with some foreign nation in order to make the country's citizens feel a sense of "unity" and restricting people's thoughts and actions, among other things."
You just quoted Bush's entire presidency... There were no Weapons of Mass Destruction and there were no terrorists threats coming out of Iraq. But they lied about both of those things and brought our nation into a war that seems to be perpetual. The war in Afghanistan was promptly started after 9/11 which covers your "constantly at war with some foreighn nation in order to make the country's citizens feel a sense of unity". As far as restricting thoughts, well I can remember when people were speaking up against the wars they were deemed "unpatriotic" and traitorous.
So tell me Scratched... what part of 1984 is different than where we're headed here in America and our friends in the UK? - Eggzb, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13Brightside....U are being dugg down because you are blind to the crimes this government is committing against its own people.
- schroduggity, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11that sounds like the war on terror to me. and revising the reasons we went into Iraq.
doublespeak and osama. - williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@Glitch82
True or false: The police can run on (even when it appears to be "off") your mobile phone and listen in on what is going on in your house.
If you answered true, how do you feel about the police state now?
If you answered false, you might want to do some research. - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I don't like the DNA database because I have signed no contract offering my DNA to government.
- kurth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm
- Stevethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"all Britons should carry biometric identification cards to help fight the war on terror."
No, Mr Blair, we all know this is not happening to fight terror, it is happening to induce state sponsored terror. Or to put it more straight: how did you know that US of A would declare war on "terror" (the worst name of war ever given BTW) and you started "arming" the country with cameras long before 9/11 (for people who like to confuse things: I'm not referring to any conspiracy theory)? Since there was no way for you to know before, there is only one logical explanation: you ALWAYS intended so .... food for thought for those who vote for their leaders. - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yeah the police will turn up in like 30 minutes and write a report or something. Reality is people need to defend themselves. This quaint idea that the police/state can protect people needs to go out the window because its a nonsense.
Do you know that CCTV footage actually isn't submitable in court in most cases. Its of no use to us in any case. - mfratt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6FTA:
"The American public would find such inroads into civil liberties wholly unacceptable."
Or would we? When such grotesque invasions of civil rights, privacy, etc., are masked behind terms like freedom, 'war on terror', and safety, people tend to disregard the former. The attitude among many, far too many, Americans is "I have nothing to hide, so what do I care?" It is quite frankly scary. - adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I agree, I see "here comes 1984!" being tossed around so much on here I wonder how many of the people who say it actually read it and understood it.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@kettle
Wikipedia says: Benjamin Franklin did publish the edition printed in Philadelphia in 1812, and most likely the original, but denies writing any part of it. _The quote, however, may have originated from Franklin and been excerpted for the book by the author._
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Those_who_would_give_up_Essential_Liberty
When it's so easy to check _multiple sources..._ - positron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6This is one of the biggest misconceptions about freedom of speech. True freedom of speech IS about being able to say whatever you want whenever you want. It is NOT about being free from suffering the consequences of that speech however. You want to run around threatening to rape little girls? Go right ahead; you are free to do so. Just don't go whining about it when you are beaten to a pulp by the fathers and brothers of those little girls. Freedom is not just about doing whatever the hell you want, it is also about taking responsibility for the consequences of your actions.
- TheOtherGuy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Well said Scratched.It is one of my pet peeves too.
Anyone who thinks 1984 is _only_ about omnipotent surveillance misses the main point of the book. - Andicow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@Kap. Glad someone else has read WE! That book is amazing and frightening.
- gothsquirrel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Well at least we got 20 more years than he had foreseen ..... i guess :(
- cybermort, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5hey... I think we are letting things get out of hand.
- Raian, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6because it has little to do with watching people--- for all we know half the cameras are just empty shells. It's the psychological effect. So when people get used to the cameras you pull out the unmaned planes.
- positron, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
- artificial001, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7hooray scare tactics (war on terrorism) to convice people that they must give up liberties in order to stop a threat that will directly harm at most 1 in 10,000 people.
- cjsedwards, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7How sad that people digg down a poem that criticizes the apathy of the German people in Nazi Germany. We've really come full circle.
- S8erpaintball, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Wonder how long...if it hasn't already happened...before this gets put into effect in the U.S.....
***** scary... - FrankieB078, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Keep sleeping GliTCH82
- rossinio, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Urgh, asking to be buried is so narcissistic! Put forward something without asking to be the antihero of your own personal tradegy people!
- Raian, on 10/12/2007, -6/+101984 started somehow--- and that's what they mean when they reference the book. It's much easier to say that then to say: Watch as the seeds of fascism are being sown.
- williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Yes. We basically live in a soft cage operated by power-hungry peeping tom perverts. We're going to have to exterminate these ***** if we ever want to be free again.
- Eggzb, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9Get in the camp brightside, you will love it there.
- AhmedOmran, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Doubleplusungood..
- Eggzb, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Brightside....
That's fine. I don't consider people that blindly give away their freedom fully human anyway.. - Anticitizen1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5``Nowhere else in the free world is this happening,'' said Helena Kennedy, a human rights lawyer who also is a member of the House of Lords, the upper house of Parliament. ``The American public would find such inroads into civil liberties wholly unacceptable.''
You know, I wish she was right. The sad truth is that almost any American would say, "HEY! If it'll stop the terrorists then thats fine! I've got nothing to hide!" What people don't see is that this sort of thing is the first step. Cameras in public places, cameras in every classroom and corridor of a school, cameras start cropping up on telephone poles watching peoples front yards, before long people won't think twice when the government says, here, put this in your house and if anything goes wrong, the police will come save you.
"Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither"
-Benjamin Franklin - Somniis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The point is that CCTV is the beginning. :)
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