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- canti32, on 10/12/2007, -23/+114Finally, the government is starting to treat gays like people. It says right in the Declaration of Independence that ALL men(people) have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, no matter what that happiness may entail, so long as it doesn't intrude physically on another persons rights.
+1 for Jersey. We finally did something right. - 47f0, on 10/12/2007, -9/+66p0s3r
"There's a huge difference. One's a lifestyle choice, the other isn't."
Congratulations on your "choice" to be hetero. Or maybe you're just "choosing" to pretend being straight and you just haven't come out of the closet - that's a choice too, you know.
I did not, at any point ever "choose" my skin color, my eye color, my gender (male) or the pleasure I get when I'm with a woman. Did you? Why do you think it's any different for gays?
As a Christian, I believe there is a church institution of marriage, which is a sacrament between a man and a woman. I do not believe in Gay Christian marriage.
But there is also a civil side to marriage - the legal side which confers very real rights and responsibilities between individuals. And that, by our Constitution, must be considered outside of ANY religious context.
As an American, I am disgusted at the degree to which our government, ignoring a Constitution guaranteeing seperation of Church and State has engaged in religion-based legislation - especially lately.
The NJ courts made a fair call. Count on the legislature to get it wrong - wait and see. Gay civil unions should be protected. The fact that they are not is a stain on every American. - Araya213, on 10/12/2007, -16/+70"There's a huge difference. One's a lifestyle choice, the other isn't."
So is being a Christian, maybe we should outlaw that. - mishagray, on 10/12/2007, -8/+58"The name to be given to the statutory scheme that provides full rights and benefits to samesex couples, whether marriage or some other term, is a matter left to the democratic process."
So they MAY have to call it Civil Unions, but it HAS TO BE LEGALLY equivilent to marriage. - cham44, on 10/12/2007, -16/+55I really don't understand why there is such a big push to ban same sex marriages (like here in TN). I assume that people are against it because they think its wrong or immoral or whatever. But do they think that banning same sex marriage will somehow reduce the number of gays? I mean, it makes no sense at all. You can ban same sex marriage but there will be just as many gay people as before. So do they vote against it just to piss them off? WTF?
- theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -14/+52What the NJ Supreme Ct.(correctly) said was that the Legislature needs to define marriage, NOT a couple of life-appointed "all knowing seers." This is what the Mass Supreme Ct. SHOULD have done. Laws are supposed to be crafted by legislators that are voted into office, and are directly accountable to their constituency. Laws are NOT supposed to be created by a couple of blowhards with gavels with NO public accountability.
Kudos to the NJ Supreme Court for getting this decision PERFECT! - amboy00, on 10/12/2007, -5/+27Its not legal. The document didn't say we could marry but that samesex couples should be afforded the same rights as married couples.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+27>I'm sorry, I didn't realize that being gay was illegal.
In many states Sodomy was a serious crime that was still on the books as late as the mid-nineties. It was recently overturned by a supreme court decision.
In my state you could get a 20 year prison term [bear in mind that this is between consenting adults] and be a registered sex offender for life.
Although very few people were prosecuted for "sodomy", obscure laws that are still on the books are dangerous because they can easily be abused, selectively enforced or used to punish people for taking legitimate political action. - mozzep, on 10/12/2007, -11/+31It just takes people a long time to accept change in values, like, say, civil rights or same sex rights. I predict in 30 or so years, gay marriage is legal and allowed in most places. If you say "no way," remember how vehemently people were against civil rights, especially conservatives? Now we hold it to be a self-evident truth. It's not too different from gay rights.
- Shorties, on 10/12/2007, -7/+26I was looking at some of the reactions, man I can't believe how many are against it http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-10-25T214007Z_01_N25399420_RTRUKOT_0_TEXT0.xml&src=102506_1925_TOPSTORY_gay_marriage_ruling
I remember abut 5 years ago we had something called diversity day at my (Then i think I was in my last year of Jr High) we had a long boring assembly with a few speakers some interesting some not, but by far the most interesting (And most controversial) was the lesbian woman who talked to us and told us about her experiences with unequal treatment and how she was treated in high school because she was gay, someone asked her how she knew she was gay and the woman replied as simply as she could see fit, "I started getting crushes on girls" Well that brought on a whole mess of ***** teachers got concerned parents got concerned, the only people who weren't concerned where the students we all stayed confused not knowing what the big deal was. There were complaints, and a whole school board meeting about it. I remember my teacher told us when we got back to class after the assembly (Now I know this is completely illegal and we could of reported her and had her fired, but at the time I was naive and did not know of such things) that she did not believe being gay was right and that gay marriage should never be legalized. I still think back to that day, the irony of the whole thing, here we were in diversity day, learning equality to all, and suddenly a gay woman speaks and all the teachers and parents freak out, what mixed messages. The worst part of it all is that, that was the last time that school ever held Diversity Day.
I would also like to mention this was in California, probably the most liberal state in the union. - illyriah, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20@dooms13
Your arguments are based on false ideas. I will take your premises and disect them carefully so you can see where you went wrong on your crusade.
1.) Sex has never been recreational, it has always been for procreation only: This is not so, in fact on Digg a few months back there was a link to the world's oldest condom.
2.) Homosexuality disgusts you, therefore it is wrong: This is an extremely unjust judgment of gay people. So what if it disgusts you; you don't have to participate. And that disgust is hardly a justification for 'moral relativism.' You should say instead that you have never been exposed to gay people, you don't understand gay people, and you were told by the Pope it was wrong. That is all you have.
3.) You can judge other people's religious beliefs: This is just sad from the outset. Since when did you become a moral authority? When you decided being gay was disgusting? Or when you decided you were an expert on sex?
4.) Separation of church and state is rediculous: Separation of church and state actually protects church and state. By not legislating one group's religious beliefs, it allows others to have their religious beliefs. It also protects our government from the problems faced by religions in contest with one another. Boo Christian wars. Hurray beer. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+22its dark and lonely in that closet isnt it?
- 47f0, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20Dooms13
"How can you call yourself Christian and support this?"
Quite easily. I not only call myself a Christian, but, coincidentally a Catholic. But I am also an American. The goals, intents and purposes of those two organizations are not, and must not be the same if we are to claim this country as a land of freedom, where the rights of all, even those we may revile are respected, rather than a theocracy.
A guy named Jesus once said, "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's".
I don't disagree with that. I can't disagree with that.
Further, as an old country boy, I have to tell you that your notions about what "Nature" would and wouldn't create are as naive as are your constitutional misconceptions.
My morals have not slipped into relativism. Your morals, on the other hand should apparently dictate everyone's.
Watch yourself, my friend. That's a dangerous pulpit. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+25cham44> I really don't understand why there is such a big push to ban same sex marriages
The same-sex marriage bans were put on the ballots in key battleground states in 2004 at the urging of Karl Rove. The idea was that if you gave the conservative base something that they highly motivated to vote for, they would probably vote for Bush while they were at it.
Rove was betting on the bigotry and homophpbia of the traditional republican base to carry the day and it worked. - Ignignokt01, on 10/12/2007, -16/+29People think the classic (hetero) marriage formula is important to maintain, so thats why they don't want marriage to be 'dirtied' up by homosexual acts. No matter what reason they give, underlying all of them is straight-up homophobia.
- Sonan, on 10/12/2007, -7/+20In my opinion, it's wrong for states or the federal government to use the term marriage at all. Benefits should be awarded to couples based on criteria defined by the government (preferably including same-sex couples), but instead it's tied to the religious idea of marriage. That's the real problem, and the reason so many religious organizations lobby against same-sex marriage, because they want to keep "marriage" defined as between a man and a woman. If they were no longer linked, the religious organizations wouldn't be able to use that argument in their campaigning. Some might not even care anymore, but that's unlikely. I know this will probably never happen, but it should.
- 47f0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13"IT is a choice. Are you having gay sex now? No? Then it is a choice and an action."
I can't decide if this is just intentional obfuscation - or mind-blowing stupidity.
Getting a blow-job from an intern is a choice. Sleeping with anyone, male or female is a choice. But your sexuality, what attracts you is not. Get real.
Attempting to cloud the issue with some naive Nancy Reagan just-say-no mentality does you no credit. - xtmno3, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I agree polygamy should be legal. Personally, it is not for me. However, if you can somehow get multiple partners to be happy with you and each other at the same time, go for it. Considering over half of marriages fail in the US, if you can get a trio to work, rock on.
- celchu33, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Thank the frakkin gods. Now if everyone else would just follow suit...
- elliam, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14You can't call up the "free country" ideal without allowing room for bigots.
- Shorties, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13"2. Choice - really? I CHOSE to be gay? Wow, I think I'll choose to be Australian now!"
That is the greatest response to that statement I have ever heard, Just like being Black, Asian, Caucasian or Hispanic is not a choice, being homosexual is not a choice. I do not understand why so many people cannot grasp this concept. - elliam, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13monisabella:
Some times I lose it on here:
Are you a ***** moron? Do you honestly believe that legally recognizing a marriage between to homosexuals will instantly start turning heterosexuals either sterile or homosexual? Citing a potential negative effect on population growth is the most assinine response I have read so far. Hating homosexuals just makes you closed minded. Saying gay marriage will hurt population growth makes you an idiot. - 47f0, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13What on earth are these "American Values" I keep hearing about? Apple pie? Thankgiving turkey? Give me a freakin' break.
I suspect that you are suffering from the delusion that your values are the only "American Values". I'll even bet a shiny nickel that if we asked you, you would say you had absolutely NO un-American Values. What a surprise.
Listen up you micro-cephalic twit. You have to share this great Nation with a lot of different folks - the protection of whose rights is what makes this country great.
You'd have been right at home in 1944 Germany. - nipuL, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15The Northern Territory in Australia did this some time ago. Only to have it shot down by federal government. I'm sure the neocons in power in America aren't going to take kindly to states giving rights to *gasp* gay people. Heck, you queers are lucky you're allowed to vote!!!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13"a step in the right direction would to not call us "gays" that is offensive to me"...
"though as a gay male"
So, what exactly are we supposed to call you? - Shorties, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Very true Sp4nk, though don't you think a majority of homosexual couples will adopt children? I really do think legalizing gay marriage will also help out the orphans in our country as well, everyone needs parents no matter who they are.
- shaidar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I am glad that the US is heading in the right direction, I just hope that it does not get shot down by the arch-conservatives.
The European Union now has Civil Unions between same-sex couples, and I think that is great. I don't have a problem with it not being called "marriage", because it seperates it from any religious connotations. - ceralor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I would have quadruple dugg that if possible. It's making me think of what's going on with my campus. On National Coming Out Day, there was a table set up on the main concourse with a string hanging behind it, with lots of student-made T-shirts hanging from it all with various messages supporting gays, lesbians, etc. The day after that, apparently, the protection afforded them was removed from the school's Strategic Diversity Plan. Now one of my teachers is afraid he could be fired, and he doesn't deserve to have to feel that way at all.
- Shorties, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9But marriage has always meant many things, I married Kool-Aid Powder and Water Together to create Kool-Aid is a completely legitimate use of the word.
- Yez70, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12I think what he is getting at is: Two people can marry in NJ getting the same-sex civil union version. In order for it to be truly 'equal' as the court ordered, it would need to be recognized by all other states in the same way as a marriage is now recognized. It will not happen yet, because a Republican congress already passed a law saying no state had to recognize these types of unions.
Basically, New Jersey is now obligated to fight for a federal law forcing nationwide recognition. - Dogtown7, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11This is a distraction. What's important is global warming, nuclear proliferation, and the video ipod.
- Twango, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14"In Nogales AZ it is illegal to wear suspenders. You don't see the ASA (American Suspender Association) in an uproar."
MIght as well put away your little hammer, you already look stupid enough. - shaidar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10True, but the sad thing is that most gay people don't care about those tax-breaks, its the other legal rights they really want.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12What is with the fight over same-sex marriage? Once you are married, its always the same sex.
- karki, on 10/12/2007, -7/+15Good news. Stepping stone to turn this banning spree around.
- Sp4nk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"True, but the sad thing is that most gay people don't care about those tax-breaks, its the other legal rights they really want."
They should care. If they want equal rights, then they want ALL of them. Not just a few, not most the ones they like, ALL of them.
"How about couples who don't have kids?"
What about them? The benefits are for the majority. Most married couples have children. The benefits exist when you get married to open the door for more benefits once children are in the picture.
"Also, since the government wouldn't have to give gay couples the tax benefits in regards to children, what's the big deal?"
They would have to. They want equal rights. They want the exact same things. That's the point. - ajmoo, on 10/12/2007, -13/+20i kind of dread visiting the comments on digg for great stories like this because of some of the asinine comments immature people leave here.
With that said... You go gurl, NJ! You might not be the prettiest state in this country (and isn't that an understatement) but this makes me proud! Next up, SF? Please? - CeeJayDK, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9"Perversion goes against american values."
And bigotry doesn't ?
If there's any perversion to found here , it's you perverting american values. - Shorties, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12It really does surprise me how many bigots we have on digg, this here in America its supposed to be a free country.
- Shorties, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9No not at all, all I ask for is equal rights for all, look up the word marriage
mar·riage (măr'ĭj) pronunciation
n.
1.
1. The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife.
2. The state of being married; wedlock.
3. A common-law marriage.
4. A union between two persons having the customary but usually not the legal force of marriage: a same-sex marriage.
2. A wedding.
3. A close union: “the most successful marriage of beauty and blood in mainstream comics” (Lloyd Rose).
4. Games. The combination of the king and queen of the same suit, as in pinochle.
Source: http://www.answers.com/marriage&r=67
Do you notice that word has many definitions, not just one defined by religion, I can say I married the two soups together to create one super soup, do I now have to say I created a union between two soups to create one super soup just because it wasn't a man and a woman? No of course not that's silly, just like saying a marriage between two men or a marriage between two women is not a marriage because they are not a man and a woman. - recyclablewaste, on 07/15/2008, -4/+11I'm gay and I prefer to be called gay. It's just a term to describe what are sexual orientation is just as others are called straight or bi. It's not offensive in the least, unlike the harsh negative sound of "fagot."
Why would you want to be called 'homosexual' rather than 'gay'? Do you say your straight friends are 'heterosexual'? I doubt it. So don't expect others to not call you gay. - Shorties, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10I ask this question to anyone here who is anti gay or anti gay marriage... why? I want to know, why are you against homosexuals and/or gay marriage?
- Shorties, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Because you are denying the right to call it marriage on the basis that it is a homosexual "Union" instead of a heterosexual "Union".
- Shorties, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I'm a heterophobic? How can one be afraid of oneself? Just because I defend gay rights does not mean I am homosexual.
- Jake2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8--quotation--
"There's a huge difference. One's a lifestyle choice, the other isn't."
So is being a Christian, maybe we should outlaw that.
--/quotation--
First off, a big 'LOL' to that. :D
Secondly, and I know you're just quoting, it amazes me how ***** ignorant theists are (in terms to gay marriage, and, well, let's face it - pretty much everything else). This anti-gay marriage surely stems from ignorance and perhaps a little case of "I'm too damn lazy to think for myself so I'll just go with the Bible".
In your mock-Christian quote I found two mistakes in two consecutive words.
1. Lifestyle - no, many gay people live exactly the same life as straights, just we don't go around feeling each other's breasts expecting a positive reaction.
2. Choice - really? I CHOSE to be gay? Wow, I think I'll choose to be Australian now!
Anyway, bleh. One-up for NJ! Being in the UK it's great we have civil unions (which is basically re-branded gay marriage, exactly the same rights and responsibilities) but just call it marriage! - elliam, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12Yea!.. wait.. are you against this?
"let the courts decide our lives."
If so, please tell me how that has anything to do with your life. Unless you are a homosexual looking to get married/united/whatever this has absolutely no effect on your life in any way. - obrysii, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Ironically, the religious right has failed in their arguements that the bible says that homosexuality is an abomination. It also says that eating shrimp, and shaving your beard are abominations, and that women are to cover their heads when entering a church.
They can conviently ignore that, but homosexuality is still an abomination?
Canada has had gay marriage for a while: is society breaking down for them? Nope. What about in Europe? Oh, again...no.
Gay people should be allowed to marry. There is absolutely no LOGICAL reasoning behind it, whatsoever. - Sp4nk, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9The simple reason why the government is mostly opposed to gay marriage is because it will give a whole new group a people much of the tax and monetary benefits straight couples receive that were primarily designed for the support of children. Straight married couples don’t receive these benefits as a prize because they’re in love. They receive them so they can produce another or several future tax paying citizens. This is nothing new; the concept has been around forever.
I’m not saying its right. But when you cut away all the ***** spin and *****, that’s really what it comes down to. - Jake2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Put it this way, p0s3r:
Let's assume you're white and you want to marry someone who is black. This is officially interracial marriage. Not just technically. On the legal papers. When you say your vows, the person who marries you refers your union as an 'interracial marriage' and never just a 'marriage'.
Wouldn't that piss you off? - Bhima, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12I honestly can't believe that the issue of civil union has become the topic of so much debate in American society and in particular American government.
Perhaps they should just go ahead and change the name of our country now: American Christian Theocratic Empire -
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