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129 Comments
- mediaspree, on 10/15/2008, -1/+40Being wrong in unpatriotic.
- Kixels, on 10/15/2008, -2/+39I did a tour Iraq in 2003-2004 with the 101st Airborne Div. We were attacked by indirect fire multiple times while pulling guard duty at the base camps there. In the video, it looked like it was friendly fire, but it could have been a mortar attack. A mortar would have either destroyed that building or it would have wounded more than just two of the soldiers. I think a mortar attack would have done way more damage. Shrapnel would have been sprayed everywhere in that room. It could have been a rocket propelled grenade, but that would have caused a big explosion. If it was a tank round, then it should have decimated that room, or at least, some parts of the building . It is tough to say. I salute the troops for all their hard work and dedication. Those soldiers will forever remember that day...the day they lost their friend...War is just horrible.
- thelastcivilian, on 10/14/2008, -3/+37The truth should not be the enemy.
"The sorrow grows bigger when the sorrow's denied." - Pearl Jam, 'I Am Mine' - inactive, on 10/15/2008, -1/+29If you admit you're wrong, the terrorists have won.
- ToddSchishler, on 10/15/2008, -3/+29~
mp_friendlyfire 0 - DatVillain83, on 10/14/2008, -1/+17The stop watch starts ticking, time for the MSM to jump onto this lead...
- duffapalooza, on 10/15/2008, -3/+16It's a tricky situation for the US to admit to doing something wrong, because if they admit they really messed up (understatement, I know), it's bad for the rest of the army, but covering it up is possibly even worse to the victims. Same for the war in Iraq in general. Like if the government just comes out and says "we made a horrible mistake, we should have never entered into this war," it's sort of disrespectful to all of the people who fought and died already, and those who are currently fighting. I'm not saying what the government is doing is right, just explaining the ethos behind it. In fact I'll say it's probably wrong.
- ifire, on 10/15/2008, -1/+13Its amazing how calm and in control the SGT is in the video. That is just heroic in-and-of itself.
- freezerburn666, on 10/15/2008, -1/+13why the ***** is the usa still sending people to die in iraq? i keep forgetting...
- chrism123, on 10/15/2008, -0/+10Only one mom is demanding answers?
- gwolf, on 10/15/2008, -1/+11How about instead of this culture of lying to cover mistakes, the military acknowledge the problem and come up with better training and operational doctrine to prevent this kind of stupidity. The voice I heard was cooking the books on the fly and he was right there when it happened.
If the field commanders of our armed forces have created a culture that discourages the dissemination of accurate reports from the field because of how it might embarrass a politician, then they aren't fit to command. The safety of their soldiers should come before how anyone looks in the papers. - Harabeck, on 10/15/2008, -2/+11More Americans killed by friendly fire than anything else? Biggest load of bull Ive seen on here in a while.
- linkcma, on 10/15/2008, -0/+8@markmdillion
I think he means that they should investigate a military cover up, not on the mistake of the troops. - shadowspawn, on 10/15/2008, -0/+8they were getting mortar fire, weren't they? and don't tanks have cameras anyway?
*****, even our local yokel police have cameras on board. what are my tax dollars going towards, hell I can rigg up a uniform standardized DAQ and camera for around 300 dollars that records everything. Just give it a place to mount where if it gets hit it doesn't hurt anyone. It's basically a throw-away, like the helmet cams.
hell. I mean wouldn't a single "tank cam" answer this question? A DAQ could record:
GPS position of the tank, including direction facing and movement (if needed)
Pitch/Yaw(and possibly roll for the hell of it) of the main cannnon
Time fired
Wide-angle fisheye lens FLIR front and back
Using today's compression methods, it could take perhaps 2 gigs for a full day of work.
Yea, you or I could build one of these and this article wouldn't even be here. There would be answers. Instead of integrating it into the current target control (which *DOES* record this information) it would simply supplement it. The DAQ/DVR wouldn't even have to integrate to anything if it's placed on the damn cannon turret to keep it separate.
Proof of efficiency would be the selling point. Accountability and recreation would be the answer to this. I think that's the point. - harmlessinc, on 10/15/2008, -0/+8If they don't acknowledge the incident then they can't work to prevent the same thing from happening in the future. People aren't upset because it happened, they are upset because it will be repeated without learning from it.
- inactive, on 10/15/2008, -1/+8sry
- BohicaTwentyTwo, on 10/15/2008, -0/+7The soldiers killed were not in the room in the video. They were on the roof.
- gwolf, on 10/15/2008, -0/+7Contrary to what seems to be a popular belief, Soldiers lives are not just another renewable, expendable natural resource. Friendly fire happens but that doesn't remove the moral obligation to try and prevent it.
You might feel differently if the person who died a pointless death was someone you gave a damn about. - dejanigma, on 10/15/2008, -6/+134700 deaths by combat (includes friendly fire)
6250 deaths by suicide from the trauma of war.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/13/cbsnews_ ...
This is not a war against Al Qaida or Terrorists. This is a war against all that is good and honorable at the expense of our beloved sons and daughters...
I'm gonna go be sick.. - inactive, on 10/15/2008, -3/+9Friendly fire is inevitable consequence of warfare. I did a total of three tours in Iraq before retiring last September and have been on the receiving end of it myself. When the rounds start flying, the chance of one finding the wrong mark can be great. This is especially true when you are engaged along more than one front. Don't forget, bullets also RICOCHET and their path could go anywhere.
- keithloughnane, on 10/15/2008, -1/+7al Qieda, wanted to kill americans, destroy american freedoms and ruin the american econimy. Bush sure showed them!
- jmorato, on 10/15/2008, -1/+7They're too busy talking about Cheney's ticker atm.
- fluxion, on 10/15/2008, -2/+8dont pull that *****, soldiers get serious respect in america. thats why stories like this get so much exposure, because its a shock to the american people. america loves her troops and its ***** stupid that everyone feels forced to give a disclaimer like this every time they have a complaint about something relating to war/military/iraq because people like you who are so quick to suggest an anti-troop agenda.
but this isnt even about demonizing soldiers, its about the military lying to the loved ones of soldiers lost in battle. this should be reported precisely FOR the troops. they and their families should know that when something happens the military will give their loved ones the truth. - inactive, on 10/15/2008, -1/+7http://www.instantrimshot.com/
- grason1129, on 10/15/2008, -1/+7the tragedy continues and brave young people die for a country that doesn't really care.
- kanabiis, on 10/15/2008, -1/+7WOW.... your a coward....
Our soldiers volunteer to defend the country. They have no choice when they are sent to fight in an unjust, illegal war, to blame them or their parents not only shows how little you really understand what it means to be an American soldier, but also what a piece of ***** coward you are.
It is not the fault of the American soldier that we are in Iraq, it is the politicians and commander in chief who ordered them.
No soldier volunteers to go and die unjustly, they volunteer to defend you, and every other American citizen. You must have a really warped sense of patriotism and self worth if you cannot understand this. Blame politicians and the warped values they have for the deaths of these Soldiers, where the blame belongs, blaming the Soldier only shows your ignorance. - schmitey, on 10/15/2008, -0/+5Sgt. 1st Class Jack Robison is a damn hero the way he kept his cool, kept his guys sane, and tried to calm them down. That video is a testament to his character and those around him.
- Apocolypse007, on 10/15/2008, -1/+6Thanks for your service Kixels, too little of actual war footage is shown on today's media. It's not pretty stuff, but people need to see whats going on.
- BohicaTwentyTwo, on 10/15/2008, -2/+7Your 6250 number contains veterans that have served in every war. If you are going to blame Bush, you might as well blame FDR and LBJ.
- BohicaTwentyTwo, on 10/15/2008, -1/+6Taken from the last page of the report (COL MacFarlands endorsement), here is one piece of evidence that you can listen to yourself. The time delay (flash to bang) between the sound of the tank firing and the impact of the round proves that the rounds came some somewhere else.
"Flash to bang analysis proves that it would have been impossible for a tank round to have impacted Building 2. Based on the distance between the tanks and building 2, it would take .57 seconds from when the gunner pulls the trigger for the round to impact the building. It would take another 1.74 seconds before the sound from the main gun would reach SFC___ video recorded. However SFC ___ recorded the sound and 3.35 seconds later, the impacy on building 2 resulted. Therefore the impact from the mortar rounds that killed SPC Suarez and fatally wounded SGT Nelson could not have been from CF (Coalition Forces) tank fire." - junkthedragon, on 10/15/2008, -2/+7People aren't upset that a soldier died as a result of friendly fire. They are pissed that the Army would rather lie to the mother than speak the truth and just face the simple fact that yes it's war and sometimes mistakes happen.
- oldhick, on 10/15/2008, -0/+5You have little understanding of combat and drastically over estimate the functionality of the military's communications capabilities.
- moxley, on 10/15/2008, -2/+6Seriously? Who the ***** ARE you?
I think that that story IS positive about the soldiers - that they are brave and deserve better than to have a mistake (which happen in war) covered up like this.
You say "ignorance is bliss" well, that is what this criminal administration is counting on - they are trying to prevent the public from seeing the truth of war. They want the public to think it;s all a big video game where only the other side's EVIL soldiers get killed and at the end there is POOF democracy (which we don't even have in America really anymore). - ErickStevenson, on 10/15/2008, -0/+4Yah the US is good at cover ups!
- jmorato, on 10/15/2008, -1/+5As soon as it's safe for the free press to roam past the green zone, sure. Until then, it is what it is: A ***** warzone.
It's not our troops' fault they're in that situation, mind you. They are doing what good soldiers do and protecting my freedom to spam you here. I thank them for that.
But I will not sit here and pretend it's all roses and porn stars when it's a massacre on a daily basis. - offrdbandit, on 10/15/2008, -0/+4It takes more than one person to fire a tank round.
- dizzbit, on 10/15/2008, -1/+5Soldier's job is to protect the lives and freedom of its citizens including dirtbags like you.
No matter how prepared she is, its is still very hard for a mother to accept a son's death. In those trying times, at least give her some dignity by providing her the truth. - inactive, on 10/15/2008, -0/+4"As well, FF incidents are much more understandable in WW2 than now. Still terrible, but we didn't have the same kind of communication and tracking back then."
From your statement it is painfully obvious you have never been in combat. The "fog of war" is the same. Do you honestly think everyone is up the same net so we can all talk to each other at will? Of course, if you had ever been in that situation, instead of just talking about it, you would know that. - inactive, on 10/15/2008, -4/+8So, it's dishonourable to admit mistakes and continue to lose soldiers in a pointless religious war, but it's DIShonourable not to hold anyone accountable for the lies which have led us into this war, as well as the war crimes resulting from that war?
Wow, I must have a very skewed sense of honour. I always thought that it meant standing up for what was right and ethical no matter how bad it makes you look. - jason72780, on 10/15/2008, -2/+6I spent years on a tank and i dont know what type of ammo you are speaking of. The anti-personnel portion of the tank are the coax and loader hatch mounted machine guns and the TCs .50 cal. The main gun is used for vehicles and bunkers. Not saying that other rounds dont exist but the main rounds used are sabot and heat(high explosive anti-tank). The only shell i know of that pre detonates is the mpat(multipurpose anti-tank) but does so near metal to take down aircraft.
- LeviTheSmith, on 10/15/2008, -0/+4Cya
- kent1146, on 10/15/2008, -4/+8I have no idea why people are digging you down for explaining the rationality of the flip-side of this argument.
The idea of digging someone down for EXPLAINING (not supporting) an idea that isn't status-quo is the same principle of the "if you're not for us, you're against us" ***** that the neocons used against protesters of the Iraq war.
Someone using the tactics of a neocon, even if in support of liberal ideas, is no better than being an actual neocon. - acidbaath, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3This is a 12 minute video edit of a 52 minute original and as has already stated the casualty occurred on the roof above where the footage was being filmed.
- Brundy, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3it sounds like the officers went into "cover your ass" mode immediately and revised the story to the Sgt. over the radio....
- kiffar, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3If it was friendly fire it should be known. Mistakes happen, mistakes happen. They shouldn't be covered up. It's war, mistakes happen.
- malignatius, on 10/15/2008, -0/+3That clip just made me sick and sad. What the hell are we humans doing to each other?
As far as I'm concerned, nothing justifies war.
Some mother's son lies in a field
Someone has killed some mother's son today
Head blown up by some soldier's gun
While all the mothers stand and wait
Some mother's son ain't coming home today
Some mothers son ain't got no grave
-The Kinks - kanabiis, on 10/15/2008, -1/+4This is a positive story about our troops moron... the troops here are VICTIMS of a military coverup... It's not the troops that are lying, its the military top brass...
Friendly fire is a sad situation, but when the military lies about the deaths, it is even more tragic... the troops here are the reason this was exposed, unless you want to claim that the brave soldier who brought this video to light somehow hates his fellow soldiers.
So shut the ***** up about hate the troops, its getting old, its ABSOLUTELY false, and every time you spout it, it just makes you sound like an ignorant *****...
And before you spout anything to me about hating troops, I live in Colorado Springs CO, home of Ft. Carson, where these dead soldiers were stationed. I grew up on that base, my father is retired Army, and I have MANY friends who have either served in Iraq, or are currently serving in Iraq, I have buried one close friend already to this war, I really do not want to loose any more. NOBODY cares more about our troops more then me, well maybe some of their wives... To read this story and witness the video first hand brings my blood to a boil, its bad enough that our soldiers are dying, but for a military coverup on top of that to save face is criminal. -
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