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Firemen Being Trained to Report Citizens Unhappy with the US Government

rawstory.com — Why firemen? Because they can enter your property without a warrant, for inspections, etc... // Next up: Firemen will be trained to carry flamethrowers, find banned books... // Note to any firemen: _thank_you_ for doing your real job, saving lives. Being discontent with creeping fascism doesn't threaten society, but it does threaten the fascists...

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  • UnFriendlyFire, on 11/30/2007, -4/+212Fireman good ,fascism bad
    • latrosicarius, on 11/30/2007, -7/+71I've always believed that all children should be taken away from parents at birth, serialized, and raised by the government. Parents only indoctrinate their children with terrorism, anti-patriotism, liberal ideals, and the absolutely un-American concept of "personal rights". The government knows what's best for children and will help them learn true values and loyalty.
      • ckhw2, on 11/30/2007, -4/+19Amen.
      • Gir53457, on 11/30/2007, -2/+26Praise the Great Leader Bush.
        • Neiby, on 11/30/2007, -0/+4"Strength Through Unity, Unity Through Faith."
      • HugoNaught, on 11/30/2007, -1/+3Yes, but its an expensive hassle to raise children so why not just let your drones do it for free and then dispose of them when their usefulness expires.
        • Logicexe, on 11/30/2007, -0/+10Think of them as long term investments in the glorious future of the Homeland.
      • KirbyMeister, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Who are you, Plato??
      • appleseed1234, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2The unbelievable thing is, this is what it's slowly coming to.
    • jkgm, on 11/30/2007, -10/+42No, you remembered it wrong: "Fireman good, fascism better!"
      • omgitssoozin, on 11/30/2007, -5/+18I would digg you through the roof if I could. I wish more people read Animal Farm. Which is what I hope you're quoting. Please, please be quoting Animal Farm, because that's highly relevant... "Four legs good, two legs better!"
        • notque, on 11/30/2007, -0/+6All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
      • latrosicarius, on 11/30/2007, -5/+13I will attempt to counteract the incredibly massive cockshelfs who minus because they fail at humor
    • jon30041, on 11/30/2007, -8/+10I doubt that many firefighters are actually reporting these things. Being instructed to do so and actually doing it are different. If they KNOW it's wrong, then... we're fine. Firefighters are brave guys, who LIVE for the fire calls they get. Usually, they'll say it's the best part of the job, to have the opportunity to go and be heroes. If the guys I know are being told to do this, I have a feeling it might hurt their zeal in their job. They LOVE their job, they love helping people. Why tarnish that by having them do your dirty work?
      • looselips, on 11/30/2007, -1/+6You just explained it, they want to go and be heroes. 9-11 taught them to do anything to prevent another attack in honor of their comrades, for national security.
        Why would you expect that they would not believe what the media has told them, repeatedly over the last 6 years?
        There in no such thing as a tarnished hero, little inconsistencies like that are usually overlooked by politicians looking to ride on a hero's coattails.
        • jon30041, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2That's true. But firefighters aren't stupid, and they know how they were betrayed by Giuliani in New York resulting in so many deaths of their friends. I'm not saying that they're free of sin, what I'm saying is that as their job description stands now, the SOLE purpose of being a firefighter is to help someone out. There's no ambiguity in a house on fire, you put it out and save people as fast and best you can. Inspections are important for insurance purposes (we've all heard the "set fire to the house to get the insurance money" plot on some movie or other). But, if and when I become a firefighter, if i find some blueprints or something of a public building known for having a lot of people, components for some sort of destructive device, and residue from a bomb construction gone bad, why WOULDN'T I report that?

          The expressions of discontent thing is stupid, I'll agree. But evidence of planning an attack on American lives DOES warrant looking into, and thus reporting.
          • EntropyMan, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Agreed. Training firefighters to spot bomb-making chemicals, equipment = good. Training them to spot thought crime = bad.

            That's the difference, and what's so upsetting. Someone else said it -- if this continues, firefighters will soon be mistrusted in the same way that cops unfortunately are. And it really is up to them to say "no" to this crap, even if it risks bucking the system. That's also a form of heroism, and I expect it will come naturally to many.

        • KJay, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Actually this is already happening. It's only a matter of time before I can't own a coffee maker because it contains an Erlenmeyer flask (coffee pot) and a heating element, both necessary elements in creating methamphetamine. We can't own chemicals that are used to make bombs? Goodbye farmers, no more manure. Home chemistry kits that all us geeks loved as kids? Nope.

          Give me a break, reporting legally abiding citizens for owning legal things and sentencing them to jail for "thought crimes" = extremely bad.

          And I already know what someone is going to say to rebuttal me, "There's a distinctive difference between a hobby and an attempt on someone's life." To that I say, "It's a slippery slope, very slippery. Once you give up one right, whats one more?"
      • WilliamDavis, on 11/30/2007, -0/+11Then they need to step up to the plate and loudly refuse to do it.
    • Nickatnite101, on 11/30/2007, -1/+24he he, i just took the physical exam for the Baltimore City Fire Department. If i get the job, a few months from now I'll walk into some of my states leaders homes and have a little chat with them while i search through their computers.
      • looselips, on 11/30/2007, -1/+4I would bet they would have escorts there in no time, to question what you did not see under the umbrella of national security. If you do not agree, I bet it would not be hard for them to prove you were there to use (planted) information for extortion, or some other trumped up charge to put you in a box in Gitmo with a squeaky exercise wheel.
    • theWrkncacnter, on 11/30/2007, -1/+10Soon enough they'll be starting fires, burning books.
      /sarcasm
      • gernblansted, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1You don't need the /sarcasm there, this is a real danger. It's not the firemen who will set the fires - if a Homeland Security agent thinks you may have a problem with "President Clinton" or whoever, a molotov cocktail may find its way into your garage, bringing the new federal agents (firemen) into your home for a nice little inspection of your ACLU, William Burk Society, or "whatever makes you a terrorist today" literature.

        Let me put it to you this way. Does anyone really think that if it were this easy for "security" agents to comb through your house, with the potential blowback hitting only the Firemen and EMTs, that they would resist the urge to do it?
    • MacSuxWindozSux, on 11/30/2007, -1/+27Absolutely Fascism.

      Maybe the story is exaggerating, take some notice anyway.

      The goverment has already given itself the legal right to:

      Wiretap -anyone- without reason or cause.
      Arrest anyone without giving any reason or trial.
      To hold prisoners in secret for any length of time without trial
      To torture "enhanced interrogation" anyone in their custody.
      To operate secret prisons, which do not operate under the rule of any law at all.
      To employ mercenary soldiers that do not operate under the rule of law at all.

      The are working on "make war on other countries without congressional approval". Which i suspect may involve acusing Iran of some fake attack or agression to claim military action is a response.

      Keep in mind the points I mentioned now are not being used in the extreme. But as far as law and powers are concerned, they can be. All it takes is for someone to be a coward and argue why it's needed.
      • CiXeL, on 11/30/2007, -3/+14the economy is about to crash. they know if they have to declare marshal law people will revolt. they are collecting names of people who they anticipate will revolt.
        these are scary times.
        • abuelos84, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2"Marshal Law", priceless...
        • MaxPayne3476, on 11/30/2007, -2/+1These are scary times... because Marshall is my last name. "Martial Law" is the definition when the military takes control of the government to subdue the citizens. The problem here is that the President is already in control of our government (... the Constitution Article I, II, or III I forget)

          Learn what you're talking about before opening your face.
        • 5urr3al5am, on 11/30/2007, -2/+1true.. if you look at everything through the negative lens of an extreme liberal
      • MaxPayne3476, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2First, "they" is a three-system government with three different branches. Pick what branch "they" means. The Pentagon has been trying to get trials going in Guantanamo, but obviously, we've hit some roadblocks! Arrest anyone without reason or trial? Give me an example wtf you're talking about. Some of your examples are true and have some merit.
        • 5urr3al5am, on 11/30/2007, -3/+1these crazy anti-government/liberals would rather make sh!t up and complain.. I'd hate live life with the delusions they believe
        • stevenb, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Devil's advocate, but what about the photographer guy that we keep hearing about on the front page of digg?
      • 5urr3al5am, on 11/30/2007, -2/+1@MacSuxWindozSux
        You make me laugh! What's it like to live in such ridiculous fear and self prescribed horror!? Maybe you should get your head of the NPR / liberal news ass and look around and realize that you're a tool
        • LOCK3D, on 12/01/2007, -1/+2The divide and conquer phony left/right paradigm has certainly worked splendidly on you. Now before you get your fascist neocon loving panties in a bunch and start calling me a "liberal" or "dirty hippie" or something equally inane, I would say my views tend to be in line with classical conservatism/libertarianism. The current administration is in no way conservative and neither are most of the Republican candidates. Have you ever read the Constitution/Bill of Rights? Presidents take an oath to defend that document. Not the flag, not the country, but the Constitution. It's the thing that made America the "Land of free". I hope you enjoy the Orwellian nightmare that the United States is becoming. Attitudes like yours are very much like that of pre WWII Germans. You are a frog in a pot that is slowly being heated to boiling. Wake up!
    • shamanlife, on 11/30/2007, -1/+8I also enjoyed reading Ray Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451".
      • DarkSamus, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0360556/
        • MikeFromAmerica, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Tom Hanks? Boooooo. That's gonna suck. Go see the original instead: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060390/ (or read the book if it hasn't already been burned).
          • DarkSamus, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1i have the book, since i read it in nightschool hahaha

            during a different discussion, we were talking about orwell and i told the teacher that wasn't his real name, he was psyched that i knew that, didn't tell him i never read 1984
      • 5urr3al5am, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Wow.. nice try.. Raw Story.. again.. the last one a few days ago was something like "Firemen to report Terrorist Activities"... that (most likely) made up story probably didn't get any traction so they try moving further left and more anti-Bush
    • rac1234, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Damn, I had it backwards.
  • cabal911, on 11/30/2007, -3/+74sigh... So I guess I better take down the noose with the GWB effigy in it and all the GO POSTAL signs in the house... Fun's being taken out of everything.
  • aman78, on 11/30/2007, -18/+202The fascist state if fast arriving. Wake the ***** up people.
    • jmpeagle, on 11/30/2007, -5/+46no one is going to do anything about it. The most people do is march down a street with some banners. Democracy won't help you given that Americans can't seem to get out of the rut of only voting for two parties despite the fact that there are multiple parties.

      As long as the government has a monopoly of violence, the system will not and does not need to change. Until they start resorting to executing dissidents on a scale large enough to be noticeable then people still feel they have something to lose by being violent back against the government. However, if they take enough rights away from people and pin them in a corner they will inevitably revolt violently (assumming the population hasn't been disarmed). The world's most powerful army is having trouble quelling unrest in a country of 20 million or so, a well-armed population such as that of the U.S. of 300 million would be a ***** logistical nightmare for any conceivable army deployed by the federal government.

      Unfortunately though people are willing to accept certain levels of totalitarianism (just look at all the socialist and theocratic states around the world) and people do feel it is OK to sacrifice liberty for the sake of security, whether political or economic security, despite the very dubious relationship, so as long as the federal government's policies are incremental and don't make people too afraid of their government, then don't expect anybody or any group to do anything about it.
      • gingerbreadcat, on 11/30/2007, -20/+6Nice try, Mr. Agent Provocateur.
      • looselips, on 11/30/2007, -2/+3There may be more than two parties, but children of the two main clubs, do not usually play well with others.
        Which, I can only guess, might be why RP changed his affiliation to republican.
        I think the govt is naive if they think the majority of ex-military will just sit around and do nothing as the cons dismantle the freedoms and the country they once fought for.
      • newprohibition, on 11/30/2007, -0/+13YT video of Naomi Wolf giving a talk about her book "The End Of America" 10 signs of converting a sovereign country into a fascist dictatorship. And America exhibits ALL 10 (of signs seen in past fascist conversions). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc
        • objectcode, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2will have to check this out later
      • stevenb, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Those who would sacrifice essential liberty for safety, deserve neither.
    • p0ss, on 11/30/2007, -13/+4Its too late.
    • latrosicarius, on 11/30/2007, -1/+34Firemen are "told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States."

      ^
      So I guess not being content with this kind of ***** means I'm a terrorist?

      Remember kids: always do what the government says. They know what's good for you. They know how to manage your life better than you. Always cooperate with whatever they say and never question the laws.
      • Pssdoff, on 11/30/2007, -0/+12*kicks in door*
        FIRE SAFETY INSPECTION!
        What is THIS? A beer? Lets see some ID!
        AH HA! This looks like a marijuana stem!
        What? You object to this search? Sounds like 'discontent' to me, take him away boys...
    • Murphy52589, on 11/30/2007, -1/+15Instead of saying wake the ***** up, we need to ***** do something about it before it's too late!
      • williamdyer, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Identify the ***** doing the training and make sure they are never involved in any programs like this ever again.
        • CaptA, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Ahhh! Will -- you APBT! (American Pit Bull Terrier) Does it ever get any better? What a crappy way to have to live one's life -- the American Hellhole bent on its own destruction... Bite'm in the ass Will... Capt. A.
    • plarp, on 11/30/2007, -7/+3legalize murder.. why should governments have all the fun..
    • NinjaBoy, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3I'm a fireman and i'm reporting all you terrorists!!
      • credence, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3A ninja fireman would be an odd sight to see. Wait, would you even see them? Or would the house just...stop burning suddenly?
        • graeh, on 12/01/2007, -0/+2Heh. That's the first ninja joke I've actually laughed at - kudos.
    • dukeochutney, on 11/30/2007, -1/+3 /sigh America is fascist? no way. as always the mob is a collection of daft idiots who don't pay attention. america was fascist when it passed the Patriot Act.
      • KirbyMeister, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Crap, how do I un-bury a comment?
    • ICSU, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2People keep apathetically consuming cheap crap.
    • tcsucks, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. - Sinclair Lewis 1885 - 1951
  • Napoleone, on 11/30/2007, -7/+235We're living in a most interesting era. We not only have to beware of an ever fascist government, but now we must contend with the naive, ignorant and ill-informed people who support these dangerous policies.

    I suggest that everyone who recognizes these policies for the fascism they really are make contingency plans for when conversations like these are no longer possible without some risk of retribution. Learn now whom the persons are that you can trust. Learn now how to fool your way into fascist circles and how to best spy on them for the benefit of your brothers and sisters in freedom. Arm yourselves now. It is your right. Speak out now. It is your duty.

    This is not a drill. Whatever this government turns out to be we will all have to live under it for several decades. Tyranny is not a myth and it does not discriminate. The freedom we've been so fortunate to live under is a historical anomaly made possible by the blood of millions of brave souls before us and extreme political turmoil. It may come to pass that we in turn must fight and die for the freedom of our future generations. That is not something to look forward to. It is not something to be taken lightly. But we must perform our duty, if need be.

    The right to just insurrection is unalienable.
    The right to just insurrection is unalienable.
    The right to just insurrection is unalienable.
    The right to just insurrection is unalienable.
    The right to just insurrection is unalienable.

    Do not be made to fear invoking your rights. Whomever they arrest, do not let that intimidate you into silence. The truth will keep us free so long as the brave are willing to give it a voice. Live Free or Die.
    • plarp, on 11/30/2007, -2/+13freedom is a word.. a jail cell is just another room.. the worst thing we can do to this government.. is not speak out.. but simply stop believing.. relise that all the metaphors that hold us down.. our money.. our banks.. our borders.. our democracy simply don't exists except within our linguistical minds..
    • MacSuxWindozSux, on 11/30/2007, -0/+31Know this...
      If you study Rome at a University level, you know that their people were no different.
      It is a huge mistake to think that groups of people are any less susceptible to deception today.

      It's the same ***** thing. Read my lips.
      • Groovemaster, on 11/30/2007, -1/+22Exactly. Nero played the violin while Rome burned, and Bush read about about a pet goat while America was under attack.

        How history repeats itself...
        • MacSuxWindozSux, on 11/30/2007, -0/+18Absolutely history repeats itself but my point was that groups of people think they are smarter and thus immune to problems that people had in the past. That their people are different. For the first time in the history of the human race.

          And this happens all the time in our history and they always do nothing as they go down in flames.

          The public today is no smarter then the public of any other era. And popular belief otherwise is age old, and repeatedly wrong, with disaster.
          • CiXeL, on 11/30/2007, -3/+5if they take away the guns or stop elections its on baby!
      • eosp, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Bread and circuses.
        Beer and elections.
    • CrazyZ, on 11/30/2007, -1/+20Better exercise your 2nd amendment rights and purchase a firearem while you still can too.
      • DarkSamus, on 11/30/2007, -4/+4someone owns a gunshop
      • id10tjoeuser, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Stock up on ammo too.
      • Christianptriot, on 11/30/2007, -1/+3Learn to reload your ammo, teach your children to shoot - and READ the Bible to them every day!!
    • WilliamDavis, on 11/30/2007, -1/+10Oh, man, you're definitely on the list now...
      • BlacklabelSAR, on 11/30/2007, -0/+5Put us ALL on the list. 70+% of the US population. It would be easier to just make a list of those that DO still support our government.
    • boomchockalocka, on 11/30/2007, -0/+9Will you please run for president.
    • eyodius, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Unfortunately, we've grown up in a world lax parents have raised more laxed parents and now everyone wants someone else to fix all their problems. I just hope there are enough people out there who are truely willing (not just say they are) to stand up and fight for what they believe is right.
    • RabidAngel, on 11/30/2007, -0/+7"The freedom we've been so fortunate to live under is a historical anomaly made possible by the blood of millions of brave souls before us and extreme political turmoil. "

      Not the typically contrite statement of "people died so we could be free" but rather a very striking and profound comment for this day and time. I salute you.
    • ahawks, on 11/30/2007, -0/+4Holy ***** that was moving.
    • pharell, on 11/30/2007, -7/+0Oh my god, MSNBC and the ACLU have a theory, so that must make it truth! Bring on the digg idiots!
      • graeh, on 12/01/2007, -0/+1Who's comment seemed more idiotic after some reflection - his - or yours?
        I know the answer - want to hear it?
  • Zarokima, on 11/30/2007, -4/+38Wow, it's basically Fahrenheit 541, just without the hound and more roundabout since it doesn't seem like they directly do anything more than inform. Build up your library and display it proudly.
    • yomamaisfat, on 11/30/2007, -2/+32Fahrenheit 541? Is that the sequel?
    • SeventhSon, on 11/30/2007, -3/+3The mechanical hound gives me nightmares.
    • andnever, on 11/30/2007, -2/+4451?
    • crapmatic, on 11/30/2007, -1/+17541, eh? I guess they're using flame-retardant materials in books these days.
      • eastwood24, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1that's the temperature at which your computer burns...Everyday that passes, bradubry appears to be more and more correct. NPR stated that only a third of college graduates five years or more into their career can read at proficient levels. I think we are getting dumber as a society and it looks like they left it up to us again.
    • xGuerrillaRadio, on 11/30/2007, -2/+7"There you have it, Montag. It didn't come from the government down. There was no dictum, no declaration, no censorship, to start with, no! Technology, mass exploitation, and minority pressure carreid the trick, thank God. Today, thanks to them, you can stay happy all the time."

      451 gets more and more relevant every day...
    • sporg, on 11/30/2007, -1/+5They dont send a hound they send in a robot with tazers on it.
    • twollamalove, on 11/30/2007, -0/+4I feel like the donkey in Animal Farm personally. I just don't know what the fork I can actually DO about any of it. So, instead of doing anything, I just moan, not surprisingly, to little avail.
  • bittwist, on 11/30/2007, -2/+44The video on that site is very telling. I hope plenty of police officers and firefighters are still practicing "selective enforcement". Sometimes the best way to fight unjust policies is for the enforcers to ignore them. Man, firefighters rule, why put them in this situation.
    • swanny89, on 11/30/2007, -9/+5Thats why I think a true fascist takeover would ever truly happen. To do that the military would have to be used, and I could see some definite fragmentation happening if GW declared martial law and asked the national guard to start rounding up their neighbors.
      • Napoleone, on 11/30/2007, -1/+26That's what BlackWater's for.
        • F1R3DUP, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1exactly what i was about to say..
        • nomadxx7, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1/sarcasm

          No they are just unjustly killing innocent people over in Iraq. They would never come back home and with a $1bil check from the US government be told that we need to be policed.

          The absurdity of the whole thing is that the guy that runs Blackwater was a Navy Seal trained by the US gov't to do what they tell him to do. When you are that indoctrined and trained, your own moral compass no longer points north.
      • p0ss, on 11/30/2007, -1/+22Round up your treasonous friends, or be courtmarshled. at the very least a dishonourable discharge, at the worst, shot. Now shepard them into that truck, The good shepard, tough love. And remember.
        They are with us or they're against us, if they've done nothing wrong they have nothing to fear.
        • stevenb, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3:( Unfortunately we truly have been conditioned into that thought rational. :(
      • ByteGuerilla, on 11/30/2007, -1/+14There was an experiment at a university, I think, where regular folk where put in charge of a makebelieve prison, with regular folk as the inmates, too. Basically, the custodians went nuts on the power and became effective arbiters of oppression.

        Don't be so sure that, just because the govt. will have to use some of its slaves to repress the other slaves, the oppressors will switch sides in significant number. Fragmentation will happen, but don't rely on it to save us.

        [P.S.: If someone knows more details about that psychological study with the fake prison, please correct/expand anything. There's a video of the study out there too.]
      • santafr0g, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2In addition to the Prison Experiment, there's the Milgram shock experiment:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
    • VinBea, on 11/30/2007, -2/+4the advantage of gray (no absolutes) is there's license for each individual to one day do one thing and the next day do the opposite...we're screwed without clear black and white rules with very little room for loop holes is necessary for order
  • diggerydood, on 11/30/2007, -3/+55Maybe we're under undeclared martial law and we just don't realize it yet.
    • VinBea, on 11/30/2007, -2/+10obviously you get the rational behind the black box in new cars and cell phones and traffic cams...we've been under communist laws since Nixon did away with the gold to back our paper...and Nix. isn't alone, all those ruling out of DC going back to Wilson had their hand in changing the face of the US to this socialist slushly cesspool we have now...
      • abuelos84, on 11/30/2007, -3/+1Communist Laws? i think you are mixing up concepts... Fascist, Totalitarian, i think those words describe best the concept...
        'ยก
    • sporg, on 11/30/2007, -0/+10Maybe YOU didnt realize it.
    • pseudononymist, on 11/30/2007, -0/+5The problem isn't that we don't or wouldn't realize it, it's more that we don't or wouldn't really care, because mostly our lives are still pretty much ok.

      And by the way, the best way to rule via martial law is to never invoke it, just like the best way to go to war is never to declare it
    • williamdyer, on 11/30/2007, -0/+5The answer is simple: Is the government operating under a "state of emergency?" If the answer is yes, we are in a "soft dictatorship."
    • evaburrito, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3While this may totally blow, its nothing new. I distinctly remember stealing a street sign as a kid and bringing it home to put up in my room. My father sternly told me to take it down because we might be unlucky enough to get one of those rat firefighters coming in our home and see it and call the cops. Of course I didn't believe him, and he was being a bit paranoid, but in retrospect, it all comes together. Now I'm the one my friends call "paranoid" of the government.
  • MaTT2011, on 11/30/2007, -2/+92O.K. , things are starting to get waaaaay out of hand here...
    • nnagflar, on 11/30/2007, -0/+13Haha, starting.
    • acidbass, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop saying ***** is STARTING!

      ITS BEEN HERE SINCE WE INVADED IRAQ!
  • PaulLewis, on 11/30/2007, -2/+59We need less government.

    Wait, did I hear a knock on my door...?
  • moin1097, on 11/30/2007, -32/+8Can someone provide a link to the story? My ***** filter wont let me click on rawstory links.
    • Urusai, on 11/30/2007, -5/+14Sure, Fox News has an article about how everything is great in America and some assholes who hate America think there might be some problems, but we won't have to hear from them for long.
    • Napoleone, on 11/30/2007, -2/+12http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FIREFIGHTER ...
    • ThePeteStanis, on 11/30/2007, -5/+6Unfortunately, no one can provide you with a link because a fireman already reported the story to big bad Uncle Sam. It was subsequently pulled and the writers at rawstory.com were sent to Guantanamo.

      On a less sarcastic note, it is notable that the left is as good at fear-mongering as the right. People have the right to choose their fear, whether it is a fascist, Big Brother Republican government or Iranian nukes. Here on Digg, it is just the former.
    • xedd, on 11/30/2007, -3/+13Look's like someone has an outdated ***** filter.
  • antiorblkflag9, on 11/30/2007, -4/+24This. Is. Not. Good.
    • MacSuxWindozSux, on 11/30/2007, -0/+5Makes you wonder... If they are making these guys report people... where is all the information going?
      If that leaks to the public... can you say "***** storm"?
  • osbjmg, on 11/30/2007, -6/+75You don't have to look hard. Here I am *****. I am NOT HAPPY. I want change. I do not approve. I think the government is WRONG. I would like to see it restructured. I want you all in dorms. You are public servants. You are not listening to us. You are problematic and we will not be ruled by you. REPORT THIS. You fail at your elected responsibilities. You are tyring to enslave us, this is totally not cool. FAIL.

    It's not hard to find me, come on.
    • BlacklabelSAR, on 11/30/2007, -2/+8THIS is what a true patriot looks like. Speak out and you will not be alone. LET THEM report that 70% of the US population is unhappy with the US government. COME GET US ALL.
    • atomic811, on 11/30/2007, -2/+2In other news a man from a website called digg who goes by the name osbjmg was arrested earlier today for possible supposition of terroristic activities.
      • BlacklabelSAR, on 11/30/2007, -1/+4The same could be said for you. Are you going to cower or fight?
        • atomic811, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2I was referring to how the controlled mass media would report a simple comment stated now.
    • Existenz87, on 11/30/2007, -0/+6When the time comes, I will stand beside people like you. I will fight and die.
    • stevenb, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Would you rather die on your feet, or on your knees begging for mercy? :)
  • gingerbreadcat, on 11/30/2007, -1/+31"I will fear no evil."
    "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

    Be smart. Be prepared. Be non-violent. Speak up whenever you can. Take action whenever you can. Show people that there IS another way for all of us to live together. Be a great example to everyone around you. Don't forget to keep a sense of humor. Whatever you do, do not be afraid. Fear cripples our ability to think rationally. Acting out of fear gives the violent an excuse to do what they do. You want to understand how a conservative thinks? They're afraid ALL the time, of enemies real and imagined, of their world changing, of things they don't understand. They need to be taught that the world isn't all that scary.

    Whenever you worry, just ask yourself, "What would Mr. Rogers do?" :D
    • Moonrider, on 11/30/2007, -2/+12That attitude is not exclusive to conservatives, nor is it all inclusive within conservative ranks. I want our nation to change, to go back to limited, Constitutional government and free individuals and I consider myself somewhat of a conservative, a libertarian conservative, a Jeffersonian conservative. The only thing I fear is our government getting even more out of control than it is. Elect Ron Paul and the creeping fascism will stop creeping and quicly fade away from the bright light of liberty.
    • VinBea, on 11/30/2007, -1/+7Yeah, we can do all that and rely upon the electronic voting machines to do what paper ballots can't do - leave a trail...
    • H0tKarl, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3What would Bob Ross do?
    • williamdyer, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Don't be confrontational and openly violent. Do be effective.
    • stevenb, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
      our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
      it is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.
      your playing small does not serve the world,
      there is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.
      we were all meant to shine as children do.
      it's not just in some of us, it's in everyone.
      and as we let our own light shine,
      we unconciously give other people permission to do the same.
      as we are liberated from our own fear.
      our presence automatically liberates others.
    • Christianptriot, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3For those of you who do not know it, Mr. Rogers' first career was as a Navy SEAL, so I kinda have a feeling what he would do. It would still be a beautiful day in his neighborhood!
  • crapmatic, on 11/30/2007, -3/+17A firefighter has their hands full when out on a call, so what is it that they're going to report that they wouldn't otherwise? I'm sure if they got to Joe Sixpack's place and found an S&M dungeon with 50 midgets tied up, they'd report it regardless of what the law says. This sounds to me more like a move to train fire inspectors and fire chiefs to snoop around, read documents, and so forth.
    • gingerbreadcat, on 11/30/2007, -1/+10What if those midgets are consenting adults? :p
      • ORBAT, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Don't you know that only terrorists are sexually deviant?
      • DrMayonnaise, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2No, the midgets are miniature enemy combatents ;)
    • VinBea, on 11/30/2007, -1/+7yeah, and at the very least, allows for room to freeze people's personal assets and property while the wheels of justice turn ever so slowly, taking the poor individual out of the equation as it were so the police state can be free to go after the next guy down the block.
  • SenatorPenguin, on 11/30/2007, -26/+5Ok, I understand that the government is seriously limiting our liberties in the name of security, but I don't think that this is an instance. Firemen, while responding to a call, must report anything suspicious or illegal. If someone is making angry threats at the United States, that should be reported. Firemen are not going to be told to report a guy who is unhappy. And if this honestly is a part of some larger conspiracy by the entire government to use firefighters to plant evidence and detain political dissidents, we are absolutely screwed. If this is what conspiracy theorists make it out to be, only Harrison Ford could save us.

    Besides, the vast majority of firefighters do their job to protect people, not to serve the government.
    • Napoleone, on 11/30/2007, -2/+12Read the original full article, and then try dismissing things again so easily.

      http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FIREFIGHTER ...
      • CourtesyFlush, on 11/30/2007, -8/+1You know....if the real story were promoted instead of this watered down spam, people would take it a bit more seriously.

        So STFU about reading an article that was not promoted in the first ***** place.
        • mrurc, on 11/30/2007, -0/+6You need to STFU and learn the correct usage of crazy internet terms like "spam."
    • Somnabot, on 11/30/2007, -2/+6RTFA.
  • jeffsback2223, on 11/30/2007, -2/+25So what exactly can we do besides post angry messages on digg?
    • VinBea, on 11/30/2007, -2/+10Well, if our founding fathers, and the boldness in which they fought the Brits is any indication, we collectively could march on WDC (the biggest fear the ruling elites out of DC have - the reason for the police state being erected called by the name: Homeland Security to put down such action) throwing the whole lot in jail, and start having proceedings in which the guilty, at the least, pay for their crimes sedition with prison time....there's a guy, a lawyer over at newswithviews.com who stresses the need for state militias organized on the constitution for the sole purpose of using the collective efforts by the state militias to whole politicians like Bush and clinton accountable.
    • mysticjim, on 11/30/2007, -7/+2enjoy good sex until the government comes bashing down your door. Then phuck em. :D
    • williamdyer, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Find out who is doing the training and make their lives miserable.
    • robberry, on 11/30/2007, -2/+1Post angry messages on reddit?
    • Farmgal123, on 11/30/2007, -0/+7what we can do = vote for Ron Paul
  • mrASSMAN, on 11/30/2007, -1/+25And that's what.. 80% of the nation? Apparently only 1 in 5 citizens are "real" Americans. The rest are potential terrorists.
  • Qtip42, on 11/30/2007, -1/+60Who comes up with this junk? Really is someone sitting there thinking "hmmm how can we ignore the constitution even more?"
    • mrASSMAN, on 11/30/2007, -1/+30Government: "But the terrorists! They're coming after you and your family! They're going to murder you all and make you gay and the only thing preventing us from keeping you safe is this pesky constitution! "
      • Identity4, on 11/30/2007, -0/+9..sounds like my dad... "oooh you better watch who you vote for! If we pull out of the middle east, they will ALL follow us here and murder us in our sleep with rocks and *****..." ....i think its time to put that old fart in a home...
        • mrurc, on 11/30/2007, -0/+5When the men with the white coats show up, be sure to tell him that they are going to take him to an anti-American terrorist training camp. That should convince them.
    • mrurc, on 11/30/2007, -1/+7Um, yes, actually, there are people doing just that, obviously. Regardless of the veracity of the "just a ***** piece of paper" quote, it is clearly what the President thinks.

      Otherwise, he wouldn't be using the State Secrets Doctrine to cover up unconstitutional behavior by his administration.
    • kingcam, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Yes, and his name is Dick Cheney.
    • Bamont, on 11/30/2007, -1/+1I think it's more.. "How can we appeal to people who have always thought the sky was falling?" - Grow up, give me a break. Should Firemen do this? Absolutely not. Is it a call from some totalitarian propaganda machine? Seriously doubtful. The sky isn't falling, the United States isn't a totalitarian government, and there is no martial law. Most of you white-collar, middle-class Americans have no idea what it's like to live in a fascist state. Google North Korea. THAT is a fascist state. Tell me how close we are too it, on the BROAD scope - and then go from there. Since I know for a fact you can't compare much of anything between the USA and North Korea - you aren't even close to identifying this country as fascist. Rampant stupidity on digg, coming from rawstory.com - why didn't I see this coming?
      • gernblansted, on 11/30/2007, -1/+1I like how you chose the absolute most undeniably extreme example of a totalitarian nation ever in the history of planet earth and compared it to the US, which despite it's apparent headlong dive into the waters of fascism still doesn't look like North Korea, and therefore apparently can be in absolutely no danger of becoming anything like a fascist nation.

        Your statement is a perfect example of what Philosophy 101 (Logic) students use as an argument in the exercise of deconstructing arguments void of logical structure or cohesiveness. It's called a "logical fallacy".
        • Bamont, on 11/30/2007, -1/+1fascism is defined as: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

          Now, let's deconstruct the definition and apply it. First and foremost, we do not have a dictator. Is Bush responsible for exploiting much of a system that was never setup to be protected from the President? Of course he is. Does this make him a dictator? No it doesn't. It makes his presidency shady, makes him a poor representative of this nation, and causes legal issues. But, this doesn't make him a dictator. Secondly, he doesn't have complete power. If he did, he wouldn't have to veto any bills that come across his desk. He wouldn't have to ASK Congress to continue funding the war in Iraq, and he wouldn't have to submit information to anyone, at anytime. This also goes along with the media, and since places like rawstory and thinkprogress are websites ran in the United States - complete power would suggest Bush would have the ability to shut these down with absolutely no problem. Forcibly suppressing criticism and opposition - yeah, I'm sure with a 20% approval rating, he's really accomplished that. Constant protesting, Generals retiring and then launching campaigns against Bush - that really doesn't describe suppressing criticism and opposition. Those are just few of the points of the definition that don't adhere to your view of what Fascism is.

          Fascism doesn't have a gray area. Either you represent it, or you don't. What you've done is commit, what we CX/policy debaters like to call - a red herring. Instead of attacking the point head on, you attempt to divert attention from the actual issue at hand and go up against the "logic" of my conclusion. North Korea is a fascist state - and since the United States comes absolutely nowhere close to any of the things I've described - it's not on its way to becoming one.

          Are civil liberties being violated? Absolutely. Is the market in the toilet? Yes. Do I want Bush out of office? You're goddamn right I do. However, saying that we live in a fascist state is, to coin a phrase you used, a logical fallacy - considering it holds absolutely no water in an actual discussion because the very definition of it doesn't correspond to what's occurring in this country right now. I wonder what people like you will do when Bush leaves office with no incident. What then will you have to whine about?
  • Look4Truth, on 11/30/2007, -2/+22Anyone else waking up yet?
  • DopplerDuck, on 11/30/2007, -4/+17Americanistan is here!
  • TruthOasis, on 11/30/2007, -19/+0BLASPHEMY this guy is going to get pwnd by God for mocking Him. This so called minister. Plus there is noooooo WAY god would ever back any of the atrocious things that this country or bush is doing. godhatesamerica.com
    • DarkSamus, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1you're right, i wouldn't
    • awtripp, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2You forgot to capitalize God the second time you wrote it. That's blasphemy. God hates you now.
  • AshamedAmerican, on 11/30/2007, -2/+14Words cannot describe.
    • pabloD, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1sure they can. here's a few: 'facism', 'police state', 'gestapo'. . . .
      • urinnerchild87, on 11/30/2007, -1/+1How about idiot, sheep, tool, "special-ed," "failed abortion," *****, just to name a few.
  • Napoleone, on 11/30/2007, -3/+45FTOA: "When going to private residences, for example, they are told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States; unusual chemicals or other materials that seem out of place; ammunition, firearms or weapons boxes; surveillance equipment; still and video cameras; night-vision goggles; maps, photos, blueprints; police manuals, training manuals, flight manuals; and little or no furniture other than a bed or mattress."

    "DISCONTENT WITH THE UNITED STATES"??? Over fifty percent of the American population fit that description. And guns and ammo are now suspicious items in and of themselves? Maps? Police/training/flight Manuals? Don't libraries carry those? Little to no furniture... With 37 million people living in poverty in the U.S. that's a hell of a dragnet right there.
    • irinotecan, on 11/30/2007, -0/+4I onetime bought an "army survival training manual" from a bookstore that had it on sale for 2 bucks, thought it might make a cool read, maybe even give me tips for camping sometime. Now I'm afraid of what will happen if a fire marshal (among others) were to spot that on my bookshelf...
      • jamthedude, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Although, on the bright side, it will come in handy when you have to flee the neocon henchmen. You might have just secured a chance at freedom for $2!
    • gernblansted, on 11/30/2007, -0/+0"Over fifty percent of the American population fit that description. And guns and ammo are now suspicious items in and of themselves? Maps? Police/training/flight Manuals? Don't libraries carry those? Little to no furniture... With 37 million people living in poverty in the U.S. that's a hell of a dragnet right there."

      I think that's the point. Almost everyone becomes is a terrorist suspect, and will become one if it's useful to a sanctioned power structure.
  • nastronomical, on 11/30/2007, -28/+5Raw-sewage Bury!!
  • pyronik, on 11/30/2007, -20/+5i don't like the idea of firefighters snooping around my place either, but really you people over exaggerate so much! You act as if there is some room full of people out to get you. What will you ever do when Bush and Cheney are history?
    • Identity4, on 11/30/2007, -2/+5....Sulk even deeper into a bunker at the thought of the NEXT administration? :)
    • azimir, on 11/30/2007, -1/+8Try to recover some of that piece of paper they're using to wipe their asses with right now.
    • CrazyZ, on 11/30/2007, -1/+6Make no mistake, we now have a "gestapo". It's called homeland security and "our" government is doing its best to pass laws that make even the most innocent of people fall under criminal penalty. This is a very bad thing. This has nothing to do with who is in power right now. If you cannot see that, then you need to sit down and REALLY read your history. How has half the laws passed in the last 8 years really helped the citizenry of the US? The dems and the reps are just two sides of the same coin. Neither of them want change for our betterment, they are empire building and have been for 40 years and we have done squat to stop it. What I just wrote could actually now be construed as "terrorism" Just think what it will be like in say 10 years.....
      • pyronik, on 12/01/2007, -0/+0The "gestapo" as you put it aren't going after the innocent civilians.. they don't care about your porn or you bittorrent or your digg comments. They are trying to catch people who are blowing up buildings. I do think that with the increased powers they are getting they need to have increased monitoring of those powers so that your "average joe" isn't getting stuck into the middle of this. How have the laws helped the citizenry? Well, last time I checked, no more buildings have come down.
  • buberfan, on 11/30/2007, -3/+23Most people won't wake up until they try to steal the next elections. With the neocons so unpopular they know they can't keep power by legitimate means so they will try to steal it (again) - only this time it will be so obvious that people will notice and object. BUT now they have the powers to crush the protestors. Senate bill 1959 gives them the right to label 'terrorist' anyone whose beliefs are deemed (by the government) to be anti-American. Thanks to the wire-tapping, email reading and (now) the fire-fighters, they will know who are the people most likely to object to the fascist take-over and can arrest them as suspect terrorists. They can then hold these people without trial in the concentration camps that are being built all over the country - and subject them to torture to find out who else might object to the neocon fascist state. I am so glad that I don't live in the USA!
    • unknownpoltroon, on 11/30/2007, -2/+15It ain't the necons. Look at the big picture. Its the whole system thats just here to engorge itself at your expense. Lobbyists, government, corporation, they're all there to maintain the status quo at your expense.
      • RabidAngel, on 11/30/2007, -1/+3Yep. Yep. Yep. I stopped worrying about political labels a while back. They are all complicit. Well said.
    • nycmac247, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2Big picture --- Hillary = Margaret Thatcher
    • williamdyer, on 11/30/2007, -0/+6It IS the neocons. There were no WMDs, no Al Quaida under Saddam. We spent a TRILLION dollars on a war for Israel and threw our currency down a ***** for the sake of Israel. ***** that *****. I am SOOOO done with Israel. If they drag us into a war with Iran, I hope they get their asses handed to them.
      • CaptA, on 11/30/2007, -0/+4AND the next question: What happens after spending 2 or 3 trillion more? I'd like to see an economic collapse; the American people "hanging politicians (Fed too!) from white oak trees! It won't happen but it's fun to occasionally dream about!!
  • ReturnToFreedom, on 11/30/2007, -1/+22It has become obvious to me that there are a few people in control of this whole entire country. It has become painfully obvious that they want the country to fall in line and go along with whatever these people, whoever they are, want to use this country's treasure and military for, no matter how illegal or immoral their cause. I'm scared because we have allowed this government to have so much authority and we have such little protections against such abuses of that authority, from the President right down to the level of police officers, and now firemen, that I know if I get arrested on some bogus charge for speaking out so vocally and going to my Ron Paul meetings, that nobody will be able to help me.
    • Napoleone, on 11/30/2007, -1/+8Death is as painless as the time before you were conceived. Don't fear any man. Don't fear death. If they corner you give them hell with absolute fury.
  • existent, on 11/30/2007, -1/+12Gestapo!
  • unknownpoltroon, on 11/30/2007, -1/+12SO, if i have a fire, and don't call the fire department, and they show up, to protect the condos/houses around me, can i deny them entry? If i do, does that render their findings invalid? How does this affect my insurance? Can my insurance company deny me coverage for standing on my civil rights?
    • Napoleone, on 11/30/2007, -1/+12Hmm. Not sure. Perhaps it's best you seek the advice of your attorney before reporting a fire. Seems that's what things are coming to.
    • theblt, on 11/30/2007, -6/+4Why would you deny them entry if you have nothing to hide?
      • objectcode, on 11/30/2007, -3/+1in other words, why deny them access unless you are unhappy with your government?
      • abuelos84, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3dooooooooon't feed the trolls.
    • halligan00, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2It varies by state, but all states have the right of condemnation, whereby they can condemn and remove you from your property. In many, if not most states, if your house is on fire, you've no legal rights to it. The FD has the right of entry, and of demolition. Private property rights end long before you have the right to burn down your neighbor's house.
      • dfeifer, on 11/30/2007, -0/+6Heh,.. Property rights ended when they instituted property tax and eminent domain. Now days we are all just renters paying to a larger landlord.
  • hellbent88, on 11/30/2007, -1/+17What can I do to stop this? My ***** god this is horrible
    • ThePeteStanis, on 11/30/2007, -2/+11Keep posting comments on Digg. Firemen are currently monitoring these comments, and your posts will influence what action they will take.
    • halligan00, on 11/30/2007, -0/+5I'm a fireman, and I monitor these comments.
      • WilliamDavis, on 11/30/2007, -0/+5Well, I hope fireman never experience the disdain that police officers deal with. Policies like this will make it happen, though.
      • williamdyer, on 11/30/2007, -0/+5So tell us: Who is running these training classes?
    • urinnerchild87, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Too late, I'm the government and we're sending a black ops team to your house at this very moment. Just surrender quietly and we'll make the torture less painful.
  • VinBea, on 11/30/2007, -6/+12Can anyone here say: POPULATION-CONTROL?
    Between the slavery of the Chinese people on the far extreme left and the the Banking Corporate Government elite on the far extreme right, sit the American people with their bank accounts full (or not) of the very vehicle used to suck the life blood out of the world, as it would seem to me that since our government (collectively, without regard to party affiliation) thought it best to change the face of our dollar (and thus the whole economic infrastructure of the United States) from one backed with gold/silver into a huge money laundry scheme that has reached the point, that America with its 300 million residents are no longer needed - and have become, in a word: EXPENDABLE; unless of course you happen to be Oprah or OJ Simpson...or a Kennedy, Bush, Clinton, Pelosi, (the ruling elite...)
    AMERICANS CAN KILL THIS BEAST, by buying American (not Walmart, nor Kmart) only, while also holding politicians from both parties accountable for treason/sedition and not just giving such a slap on the wrist (Richard Nixon, comes to mind.)...
    • cabal911, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1There's truth here... Stay away from Walmart! Resist the urge to do "one stop shopping"! Support your local merchants. And do your research and buy products made in America.
    • stevenb, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1@cabal911, are you kidding? There is a lot of saber rattling here on digg, but noone will ever lift a finger or invest more time into doing something than typing a response on here. It's wishful thinking that you could encourage the masses to change their ways by posting a comment here. It's going to take something much more.. horrific happening to make everyone realize they need to get involved. Even then I don't think everyone will get involved... It's definitely going to be interesting.
    • BlacklabelSAR, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Excellent comment!
  • lowerlogic, on 11/30/2007, -3/+6Scream to the tune of the background noise
    • ThePeteStanis, on 11/30/2007, -1/+4But don't let the firemen hear you!
  • tofucrew, on 11/30/2007, -4/+34I don't think this will change anything. Firemen are not going to start snooping through your underwear drawer while putting out your attic fire. I think you will see HUGE opposition to this from unions and fire department administrations across the country.

    I've been a fireman for 12 years now. I work in a big city on a busy engine. On a couple of occasions, we have discovered meth labs while out on calls (a recent one was during an odor investigation- someone smelled something "chemical-ish", and called 911). Of course we're going to report it. But if we find your weed, we aren't telling anybody (twice now, I've quickly thrown something over someone's stash when the cops came in. Don't tell my boss, OK?).

    If I ever found a stack of kiddie porn, or bomb making materials or a huge pile of heroin, I sure as heck would tell someone. But I will not be snooping through anyone's personal belongings, hoping to find something. I would prefer to keep what little public trust I still have.

    From what I've heard through other sources, there may be a push to have inspectors (NOT firemen) keep an eye out for stuff during routine business inspections. Unless they are expecting these guys to look in spots they've never looked before, I don't really see how that will make their job any different than it is now.

    And in response to a previous question: In most places, the fire department has the authority to enter your house when it is on fire, no matter what you say.
    • mrurc, on 11/30/2007, -0/+12Well, at least there is some civil disobedience left in the fire department. Thanks for your work and your attitude.

      No one is complaining that the fire department is going to report meth labs or bomb labs or obvious drug dealing or kiddie porn laying out on the kitchen counter to the police. That is totally reasonable. I wouldn't even hold it against you if you reported pot that's out in the open. But if I have a dart board with the President's face on it (which I don't) that shouldn't be reported to the police to have me declared anti-government and thus a terrorist. From the looks of it, you could actually get in trouble for owning a copy of Fahrenheit 451 and that's the kind of irony that is not delicious.
      • MalenfantX, on 11/30/2007, -0/+8I'd hold it against him if he turned someone in for having pot out in the open. Pot has somehow caused psychosis in the people who don't use it, and turning someone in to our insane legal system for having leaves or flowers makes you a very bad person. Sounds like he does the right thing by throwing something on top of it.
        tofucrew: thanks for doing a very important and dangerous job.
    • theblt, on 11/30/2007, -9/+3Finally...an intelligent comment. I hate this administration as much as the next guy, but this Digg community seems to think that everyone is out to get them and this article doesn't prove any of that.

      Let's say you have that dartboard with Bush's face on it, they aren't going to report you, are you kidding me? Do you have any idea what would happen if that hit the media? As much as everyone here hates the media, something like that would be reported if the government started nailing people for such minor things. I quote the actual article, and not this "Raw Story" *****:

      "Homeland Security also trains the New York City fire service in how to identify material or behavior that may indicate terrorist activities."

      Placing a picture of Bush on your dartboard, or anything else of that level isn't considered illegal material or a terrorist activity, so that argument is irrelevant. I'm sick of these misleading article titles just to bring in some diggs and a few extra hits to blogs.
      • theblt, on 11/30/2007, -7/+2Instead of digging me down, why doesn't someone provide an intelligent argument?
      • seadeus, on 11/30/2007, -0/+11It will never happen here/there's no proof?? I'm sure that was a popular line of thinking in every nation making the transition from freedom to authoritarianism. The "proof" is human nature. How is it that history can repeat the same cycles over and over again for thousands of years? Because human nature is a constant. This is an obvious attempt to "get around" the Constitution. Is that not enough to set off alarms that we are about to repeat a chapter in history that doesn't usually go so well for the average man and his freedoms?
        • theblt, on 11/30/2007, -2/+1Yes..this is quite obvious that by training firefighters to keep a look out on documents, illegal materials, or other terrorist related materials is a blatant way for our government to invade our privacy....

          You, and many others, make these stupid comments because you WANT to believe that every little thing our government does is trying to screw you. I agree, some of this predisposition isn't unwarranted, but this is ridiculous. When I see an article in the news describing someone's freedoms being taken away because of the tactics used in the one this article describes, I'll believe it.

          Firefighters are good people. They're not here to ***** us over because we don't like our government. If they started wrangling every person who expressed a little dislike for our president, there'd be a huge revolt and the people would come out on top. Secondly, if this was really as bad as everyone here claims it is, you'd see plenty of liberals fighting it, and then FOX News backing it up. Do you honestly think that firefighters are going around, putting out fires, reporting to the government, and having people sent off to secret prisons or something? If so, you need to get your head checked pal.
          • WilliamDavis, on 11/30/2007, -1/+5"You, and many others, make these stupid comments because you WANT to believe that every little thing our government does is trying to screw you."

            Seriously, nobody wants to believe that. It's about risk assessment. I could let you hold a bowling ball over my head while you promise not to drop it, but why would I let you do that in the first place? I don't really care what your reasoning might be.
          • jamthedude, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2"You, and many others, make these stupid comments because you WANT to believe that every little thing our government does is trying to screw you."

            I second WilliamDavis's comment and would add that we SHOULD believe this - especially with the current government in place. Also, you said that "when this hits the media.." - how much ***** has already hit the media? Every day ***** hits the media - but people like you rationalize it because the media gives you biased views and discontent-soothing reasons why this ***** is happening. Hell, they're rationalizing torture(!) right now. Unfortunately, the exact opposite of what you claim happens - the more of this ***** that hits the news, the more it looks "normal". You can rationalize ANYTHING given enough fear and/or unwillingness to change.
    • morph988, on 11/30/2007, -0/+8With all due respect, tofucrew, I don't think you are going to see a big opposition from the fire departments about these laws because the very act of opposition is made ILLEGAL by THESE LAWS. It's a catch-22. You will be labeled a dissenter by going against these laws that target you as a dissenter. It's ***** up.
    • Ellipsys, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Thanks for your work ethic and service. Its always admirable when someone in a uniformed service position (Police, Fire, Military etc...) who is supposed to /do/ the things that crush civil liberties speak out against them.
    • nextyoyoma, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2I really appreciatte your attitude and your actions as a fireman. My problem is not with firemen, but with the people who decide what they should be trained to do. Regardless of whether the training actually causes intrusion into privacy, the point is that it tries to.
    • ettin, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Stacks of kiddie porn? If your referring to VHS/DVD's how would you even know its kiddy porn, i mean do these stacks your finding have nice illustrated labels on them detailing their contents? That makes about as much sense as having a folder of drugs.
    • BlacklabelSAR, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1You are appreciated. One question: What will you (and your co-workers) do if you get new, strange, orders or if someone odd is added to your dept.
      • justicefries, on 12/01/2007, -0/+0That's not quite how it works. We're not an entity of the federal government. We're a local government entity, and little ***** at that.

        Our department would probably fax the orders back with a picture of all 132 of us giving the bird.
  • lagrange, on 11/30/2007, -11/+3I guess the next time i see firemen collecting toys I'll just keep on walking.

    They could refuse to do this, but they won't. It pays too well.
    • tofucrew, on 11/30/2007, -1/+12Yes, we WILL refuse to do this. And if you think they'd pay us extra for snooping around, you obviously do not work for any city I've ever worked for.

      You'll have to come up with another reason to not give toys for the sick kids in the children's hospital.
      • justicefries, on 11/30/2007, -0/+7We absolutely will refuse. We're not paid all that well anyway (some of us are even volunteers), and we really are on your side, dude.

        It sounds all good on paper, but in practice, we aren't out to get you.
        • dougcj37, on 11/30/2007, -0/+6HA jokes on you i'm a volunteer, NO money for me. and Tofucrew and justicefries are right not only can we reuse to do this but we will.
    • MrESaulved, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2"They could refuse to do this, but they won't. It pays too well."

      Sounds like you want to do their job. Do you want to do their job? Take the test.
  • justicefries, on 11/30/2007, -0/+83As a firefighter, I have already told my captain that I absolutely refused to participate in this.

    A day after I told that to my captain, our chiefs made it damn clear what our jobs were, and that they did not include searching for possible terrorists. We're here to provide emergency medical and fire services, not play big brother.
    • mrurc, on 11/30/2007, -0/+10I hope you live in San Francisco. Not that I actually have anything illegal or obviously showing discontent inside my house, I mean except some Snog CDs. But if my house was on fire, I shouldn't have to check my fridge for dissenting poetry magnet formations before calling 911. Of course, I do expect that the SF firefighters are going to refuse.
    • apollo168, on 11/30/2007, -0/+5Yay for firefighters! :-)
  • cgrier, on 11/30/2007, -2/+9that is goddam scary. what constitutes discontent?
  • Moonrider, on 11/30/2007, -2/+13Thank you tofucrew and justicefries, I have a few friends who are firefighters and they agree with you. It is good to know you have our backs.
  • sealjosh, on 11/30/2007, -1/+43This is why we have cops. I became a fireman to fight fire, not the constitution.
    • VinBea, on 11/30/2007, -1/+5I take you at your word - good for you!!! But not everyone will hold your view...
      • dougcj37, on 11/30/2007, -0/+9you'd be surprised man, we all joined the fire service to help people, I absolutely love what I do and reporting people for "terrorist activity" does not help people, I think that goes for most of us.
    • completerobot, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3No it's not.
    • jdoe562, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2"This is why we have cops"?

      No, this is wrong no matter who does it. ***** you.
    • ORBAT, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2You're obviously a dissident commun... I mean terrorist yourself, then. Have fun at Guantanamo.
  • dougcj37, on 11/30/2007, -0/+40I am also a firefighter, I can't speak for all firefighters but I can say almost all of us are here to help you. I personally refuse to be the governments little spy and won't report any "suspicious activity"...unless you have a nuke in your basement, I would probably report that one.
    • justicefries, on 11/30/2007, -1/+13No, dude. We're firefighters. We'd accidentally break it trying to figure out what it was. Problem solved.
      • dougcj37, on 11/30/2007, -0/+7lol my favorite radiation and HAZMAT incidents
        • justicefries, on 11/30/2007, -0/+7Don't you dare remind me of the days of doing HAZMAT tech. Worst experience of my life.
        • dougcj37, on 11/30/2007, -0/+8yeah sound pretty terrible, I still have 5 hours of HAZMAT awareness to go through, the only thing worse then doing HAZMAT is sitting around talking about doing HAZMAT.
        • mrurc, on 11/30/2007, -0/+10I love you guys. I know I'll get dugg down for making a post that says "I love you guys" but damn, fighting fires, aiding in medical emergencies, fighting for our rights, AND having a good sense of humor about it? You guys totally win this thread.
      • abuelos84, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1HAZMAT? what is that? something from Kaballah?
      • stevenb, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1I giggled a little at this comment. :)
  • TheWriteGuy, on 11/30/2007, -1/+6Release the hounds!
  • yournightmare, on 11/30/2007, -1/+20I can't believe some dork hasn't said "I, for one, welcome our new firefighting overlords."
  • 1timeuser, on 11/30/2007, -21/+3Ron Paul will eliminate all firemen by ordering the military to bomb all fire stations if he is elected. Just another way Ron Paul intends to protect your rights! Vote Ron Paul
    • dougcj37, on 11/30/2007, -3/+4yeah who needs firefighters its much more fun watching stuff burn....or self extricating yourself from a car wreck I hear that one is a blast.
  • bingobongony, on 11/30/2007, -20/+4rawstory.....yawnnnn. Haven't they gone bankrupt yet? Or are their latest blogspam attempts working?
  • wolfboy2883, on 11/30/2007, -0/+24Ok, as a fireman I must make the following statement: THIS IS A CROCK OF *****! We don't do anything about people who are discontent with the government at my station. Illegal materials? Hell yeah - nip terrorism in the bud. But I cannot believe that this is really going on. Our job is to help people, not do the government's dirty work.
    • yournightmare, on 11/30/2007, -1/+7"We don't do anything about people who are discontent with the government at my station."

      --Probably because you haven't been trained to look for people who are expressing hatred of or discontent with the United States yet.
      • wolfboy2883, on 11/30/2007, -0/+7I can't see this going through. It would interfere with our primary purpose of rescue, fire suppression, and emergency medicine. There's no way. This is police work. There'd be backlash from this kind of training also. No way is this gonna happen.
        • VWBusman, on 11/30/2007, -1/+7Sad thing is a few years ago most people would have said "No way is this gonna happen" to all of the post 9/11 steps towards fascism that have already happened.
          • wolfboy2883, on 12/01/2007, -0/+1There are undoubtedly steps towards fascism in this country, but using the fire department - arguably the most trusted and beloved officials by the general public there are, as government spies is a step too far.
        • wolfboy2883, on 11/30/2007, -1/+1This isn't gonna happen. They'll get no cooperation from us. There would be an uprising.
        • pcflea, on 11/30/2007, -1/+1The universe doesn't take no for an answer. So as you put it, this will happen, they will get cooperation from us. There will be an uprising... OH *****. I better stock up on twinkies and peanut butter... That ***** will sell out for sure.
      • urinnerchild87, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Hmm...does paranoia run in your family, or did the government inject it into your lucky charms?
  • MikeMacMan, on 11/30/2007, -0/+22What the ***** is happening to this country?
  • CourtesyFlush, on 11/30/2007, -15/+3Oh, they're all out to get us.

    Talk about fear mongering. This is the definitive example.

    If you have an emergency and you leave your jihad terrorist handbook out on the ***** coffee table along with the plans for a bomb and your stash, you get what you ***** deserve.
    • mrurc, on 11/30/2007, -1/+5Yeah, but owning the jihad terrorist handbook and bomb plans isn't necessarily illegal. If the handbook says "this is how we will bring death to America", then yeah, maybe. But if it says "this is how we will elect leaders that support our religious ideals," then that is not an illegal document. And bomb plans are not in and of themselves illegal. Making bomb plans illegal means the libraries would have to get rid of history of WWII books. And encyclopedias. And science texts. It shouldn't be the job of firemen to read your jihadist handbook and determine if it is actually seditious.

      Now, if you have bomb PARTS next to your bomb plans, that is a different issue.
    • seadeus, on 11/30/2007, -2/+3Do you work for the government? What dictionary are you using that defines "discontent" as a jihad handbook on a coffee table? Your disinformation techniques need to be updated, they may have worked 10 years ago, but not today. Do disinformation agents do any continuing education seminars? If not, they should; times are changing.

      P.S. Dude, just saw your post following this one; don't use words like "flat", that is so not American. Is our government outsourcing disinformation now?
    • zombiedepot, on 11/30/2007, -1/+1I guess my Death To America coffee table book won't be on the best seller list this year...
    • stevenb, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Wow, to all of you who bothered to reply to this guy and then justified the "maybe if it was"... Books == Knowledge no matter their content, when you start banning books, welcome to HItler's reign.
  • CourtesyFlush, on 11/30/2007, -21/+7NEXT: The evil government trains an army of Orkin men to spray mind altering chemicals on your Ramen noodles while you're out of your flat.

    No warrant. No short term memory. No one would ever know.

    Fear the bug exterminator. He is a tool of your political enemies.

    COMING SOON: Republican cable men.
    • MacSuxWindozSux, on 11/30/2007, -1/+17Next: Someone else tells you an obviously ***** story to make you think by extension that the story you originally heard was baseless and paranoid.

      Because heck, if you used your brain maybe you might realize you were losing everything our elder generations fought an died to defend and protect.

      I mean if you actually thought about it, maybe you'd realize that people in power might try something thought unthinkable expecting people would doubt they'd stoop so low.
    • MacSuxWindozSux, on 11/30/2007, -1/+15Next: Someone tells you another obviously ***** story to make you think by extension that the original story you heard is baseless and paranoid.

      Because heck, if you used your brain you might realize you were losing everything that the elder generations fought and died to protect.

      And of course, you might then see that people in power might try something crazy and unthinkable expecting people would doubt that they'd stoop so low, and thus get away with the crime.
      • mrurc, on 11/30/2007, -1/+3Wow! I *was* able to digg you up twice. Coooool.
        • MacSuxWindozSux, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2Error with Diggs comment system sorry.
          It said my comment didn't exist when I submitted so i just rewrote it.

          Then 2 mins later it's showing both. Whatever.
        • RabidAngel, on 11/30/2007, -1/+1That was worth a double-dig.
    • jamthedude, on 11/30/2007, -0/+4Better to be paranoid & wrong than live in a concentration camp due to lack of care about our future.
  • eatsushi, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Farenheight 451.
    Our high school books are coming to life.
  • FredFredrickson, on 11/30/2007, -0/+6What truly troubles me about this isn't so much the corruption of a public institution (firefighters), but the complete complacency with which they embrace this training. If I were a firefighter, and they were telling me I needed to do this, I would have to say something about it. It's blatantly against the rights of the people and it violates the trust and well-being of the community. Don't the people doing this ever think about how negatively this impacts their job, their community, and their country before they just follow orders?
  • VinBea, on 11/30/2007, -0/+5Point of clarification: Government out of Washington DC is not our friend - and is both a top down approach as well as a bottom up - and collectively are working to destroy America and the money laundering scheme that is the whole federal reserve using the US dollar (of no value) for corruption globally, no longer have a need for the US dollar just as they have no use for the American people and are going to be destroyed on purpose - Americans, get your guns ready!!!
    • MacSuxWindozSux, on 11/30/2007, -0/+7The federal reserve is the biggest heist in the history of the human race.
      Vote Republican or Democrat I don't care.
      • VinBea, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Bingo!
        What money source is used for illegal drugs (drugs being controlled by the secretive CIAs of the world); is it not the US dollar? What about illegal gun sales - or genocides?
        The whole infrastructure that is the US Economy with its paper currency known as the US dollar (with nothing but promises from global central bankers) is a MACHINE. To be more specific, it is:MONEY LAUNDERING MACHINE that uses slave labor out of China (and other cheap labor markets) on the one hand and the central global/corporate/government/bankers on the other hand - with the MACHINE (AMERICA) in the middle.
        Now, 'We the people' with its economic system - and its US dollar - is no longer needed, and as with the grass that's to high, is ripe to be mowed down - wiped out!
        It is now 'we the American people...' and our 2nd amendment rights unified against its common enemy found not in Iran and other places on the map (though they exist too), but found operating out of WDC.
        • MacSuxWindozSux, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2The way you said that seems a little excited, making you appear a little far fetched.

          3rd World exploitation? You are right.

          Lets say I ran a country that invaded and unified every 3rd world country. Lets say it was obvious that I was feeding and educating these people and not enslaving them. (Basically making everything amazing)

          The leading democracies in this world would tell their people I was evil and they would send their armies to stop what I was doing. This is because their economy (The World Economy) is based on exploiting 3rd world markets.

          There is a surplus of capital in all these countries, so business is forced to seek new markets to invest in. Germany for example had nowhere to expand to (no colonies), and this lead to WW1, and the Treaty of Versailles at the end lead to WW2.


          The American government borrows all it's meny from the federal reserve (not federal in any way). Income tax in the United States goes towards paying the debt and intrest. If they didn't borrow this money they would be no need for Income Tax.

          The Constitution restricts the forms in which the government can tax, making income tax unconstitutional. There were several amendments that were added, but in the 1930's the supreme court ruled they did not give any extra taxation powers.

          In the 1950's a lower court declared Income Tax as being legal, despite the supreme court ruling.

          There are people living in the United States that have taken the IRS to court about this, and now they do not need to pay income tax.
      • VinBea, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Yeah, in principle - I agree with you - but digging a bit deeper to where the tire meets the road, without that endless supply of slave labor in china at the far left of the spectrum - America's lust toward keeping up with the Jones, in the middle (thanks to the zombie-creating school system) being the log that gets thrown on the fire - and the one central-head-banker (be he Prince Charles, or whomever) to the extreme right using and abusing the entire system toward personal gain - America would not be being used as the money laundering capital of the world it is being used for today had the gold standard not been eliminated.
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