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98 Comments
- delelles, on 11/15/2007, -1/+26I bought a Ron Paul 1oz pure gold dollar a couple months ago -- and just received the same email. This is complete and utter horse *****. The FBI needs to give back to them their goods right away.
- bradspangler, on 11/15/2007, -6/+27I don't support Ron Paul because, as an anarchist, I refuse to support ANY politician. This isn't really about Ron Paul, though. It's another example of government run amuck.
- Kwashiorkor, on 11/15/2007, -1/+21Ron Paul has said he'd shut down the Fed. Maybe they're starting to worry that he might actually get to do that. They know that an alternative (real) currency would doom their phony Federal Reserve Notes.
- stealthc, on 11/15/2007, -1/+20I assure you I would not deliberately post a hoax. I only copied an email I got from truth@libertydollar.org. Granted more of my updates come from Sarah@, but unless someone hacked or spoofed an ALD address and sent me an email that sounded just like the letters NotHaus writes, it's legit as far as I know.
- Cutkomp, on 11/15/2007, -1/+20Is this for real? If they are pulling crap like this then it leads me to wonder if there is even going to be an '08 presidential election. Mr. NotHaus couldnt' have a more coincidental name. "Houses" run the world.
- universeman, on 11/15/2007, -1/+18I just called Bernard's cell phone - oddly it did not ring. It went to voice mail as if it were turned off (or very busy), but first I heard some strange static. I have called Bernard many times over the years and never have I not gotten at least a ring.
I think this is true. - sm0ky, on 11/15/2007, -1/+16It just doesn't surprise me any longer. Of course the feds will do anything it can to down this guy (Mr Paul) simply because of his beliefs of the constitution in which the feds aren't part of.
- katie212, on 11/15/2007, -2/+17Brady, I amnot an anarchist but with that said we need you more than ever. Anarchy will not work alone and of itself. When you do awaken, please support your countrymen who are trying to make a difference before it is too late.
- votewritein, on 11/15/2007, -1/+15People getting this email, I think, are ONLY people who've purchased something from LibertyDollar.org (and possibly those who've been subscribed to their newsletter). I very much doubt this to be a hoax. It happened at 8am this morning so....IT JUST HAPPENED.
- nirosive, on 11/15/2007, -1/+15I've also received the same email. I doubt anyone would set up such an elaborate hoax ( emails, a class action lawsuit link under the Liberty Dollar domain and no one answering their phone when you contact their HQ ).
- jimbabb, on 11/15/2007, -1/+14I received the same email. Yikes!
- inertia186, on 11/15/2007, -1/+14I noticed that the LibertyDollar.org web site was having problems yesterday (php errors). Today the catalog is down and the class action link works. If this is a hoax, it's elaborate.
- Cutkomp, on 11/15/2007, -5/+17Anarchy isn't all that scary. The forces of good would still network themselves together to fight against the evil bastards of the world, it just wouldn't be done through government.
- PongGod, on 11/15/2007, -1/+13Wonderful. I was wondering why my order was taking so long to be fulfilled. Now I can personally testify as to what the wrath of the police state feels like. And it ain't good.
I'm now reminded of Robert Stack's character (Agent Fleming) in 'Beavis and Butthead Do America': "Agent Hurley, I want you to give this scumbag a cavity search! I'm talking Roto-Rooter! Don't stop until you reach the back of his teeth!" - bradspangler, on 11/15/2007, -2/+14I should add that if it's REAL, we ought to do everything we can to push this story. We just ought to confirm it first.
"This aggression will not stand, man." - rkbabang, on 11/15/2007, -2/+13Exactly. The forces of evil will still be around only they will all be called "organized crime" instead of "government". The only difference is that the average man will see them for what they are and oppose them.
- geekanarchy, on 11/15/2007, -1/+12Well, the email (I received one as well) came from LibertyDollar.org so one would think it's real. And, honestly, it makes sense.
1) U.S. Mint claims Liberty Dollar is illegal even though they have no authority in the matter.
2) Liberty Dollar sues in retaliation to stop the slander.
3) FBI raids Liberty Dollar. Suddenly, Liberty Dollar has nothing - no business, no computers, no assets, and cannot fulfill their contracts.
You can't win a court case when you have nothing to fight with. - PongGod, on 11/15/2007, -1/+11I suspect the charge was the standard boilerplate one they use. "We're with the FBI, so get out of the way, *****, so we can haul out your *****."
- NoTreason4, on 11/15/2007, -0/+10This has been confirmed. The internal Liberty Dollar circles are abuzz, and numerous people who are trustworthy in that community have confirmed talking to Bernard. The raid happened yesterday. So far none of the RCOs have reported being raided. I operate http://LibertyDollarUSA.com and orders are going out as expected. Its funny, though, like last year when the USA Today story broke, interest has gone up, though not as much as this is not as wide a story.
If you go to the website you can see the form that Bernard created for people to sign up in the class action lawsuit: http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php
Unfortunately, that page is the closest thing to official confirmation- they are generally a bit slow to update their website, and I imagine they are a bit shell shocked today. Personally, I'm astounded that the government can go an steal assets from someone without cause... and that this doesn't' generate more outrage. ( IT happens a lot in a lot of different situations...) It seems that the thinest veneer of claiming that the victim is a criminal justifies this theft to most people... even though if you think about it, if this is a nation of laws where people are innocent until proven guilty, stealing someone's assets and freezing their accounts pretty much effectively guarantees a conviction, which will justify after the fact the seizure of the assets. (At least in people's minds...)
The liberty dollar is perfectly legal, as confirmed by a simple reading of the laws, and numerous statements by the secret service, the treasury and the federal reserve. The Mints allegations were asinine on the face of it... and the FBI's actions today are absolutely criminal. But criminals continue to victimize people until they are stood up to. So we can expect things to get worse.... - nirosive, on 11/15/2007, -1/+11There's no way to place any orders online. I was trying to place an order for a Ron Paul liberty dollar ( just to see what happens ), but when I click on the link, i get the old "404 Not Found" page. There is no shopping cart.
- stealthc, on 11/15/2007, -1/+10Absolutely Cutkomp. The Liberty Dollar office has been the victim of smaller raids in the past, so this doesn't exactly break any patterns. This is big, but to me it is all too plausible.
So far on the thread at RonPaulForums.com, the story is that either the raid did just happen, and they sent the email to the customer addresses they still had on a backup, or the ALD had to have been hacked. - faithfreedom, on 11/15/2007, -1/+10I tried to call Liberty Dollar office, there was no answer. I guess along with money, the office is sealed off and documents are confiscated.
- inactive, on 11/15/2007, -0/+9That is b.s. for the government to do that. I saw Mr NotHaus present at an international conference and he was a genuine guy with a good dream for getting back to real currency and economic expansion. THis inflationary ***** that we are sujected to is unnatural and didn't exist before fiat money. The Federal Reserve? THat is a total misnomer because it ISN'T Federal and there are no Reserves! It is a private corporation.
- stealthc, on 11/15/2007, -1/+10The LD website is slow to get updates. Most of their current info gets released via email. Anyone else who is on the ALD mailing list please leave a comment on the linked page to confirm.
- inactive, on 11/15/2007, -0/+9Alex Jones show has confirmed the e-mail is from Bernard.
- SiNN4R, on 11/15/2007, -1/+9We can use everyone who is awake.
- ariana333, on 11/15/2007, -0/+8So this DIGG gets to about 130 diggs very quickly, then disappears from DIGG search results, and only racks up another 10 diggs in the next hour and almost all additional commentary stops. hmmm....
- Cutkomp, on 11/15/2007, -2/+10Surely you can understand the need to confirm this one beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm not doubting your integrity, it's just, well, we are on the Interwebs. If we didn't see it with our own eyes then we need to quadruple check it. Even things we do see we should double check.
- SiNN4R, on 11/15/2007, -1/+8I'm sure the apologizers will defend the FBI about this.
- kerryhall, on 11/15/2007, -5/+12Ron Paul DOLLARS?
This story, if true, is quite hilarious.
Now that I am done laughing about that, in all seriousness, (again, if true) this is ***** ridiculous. When will we finally start to stand up to the government? All you sitting on your asses doing nothing, when will YOU start to organize something yourself? It's not hard to write a leaflet on your computer, take it to the local copy center, make a few hundred copies, start passing them out and discussing issues with people on the street. Bring back the soap boxes!
/rant - ariana333, on 11/15/2007, -1/+8What was the charge? Did the FBI present Bernard von Nothaus with an official reason for this action? I don't see it in the email.
- Cutkomp, on 11/15/2007, -1/+8You under-estimate the power of the jury. It can be done, just takes big balls.
- bradspangler, on 11/15/2007, -5/+12Re: "Anarchy will not work alone and of itself"
Clearly, I disagree.
Look on the bright side. I make you guys look moderate. ;) - ariana333, on 11/15/2007, -0/+6Why does this DIGG no longer appear in my time-sorted DIGG for Ron Paul stories?
- PongGod, on 11/15/2007, -0/+6Thugs is thugs. They all wear the same jackboots.
- inertia186, on 11/15/2007, -1/+7One possibility is that the raid happened yesterday, and the e-mail was scheduled to send today. Where I work, the person who writes the e-mail has little control of when the e-mail is sent. Of course, I could be wrong about this.
- inertia186, on 11/15/2007, -0/+6Here is some evidence to support my theory that this happened on the 14th:
DAILY COMMISSION RATE
Silver Spot $15.12
Updated: 11/14/07 13:01 EST
Associate Commission 4.7%
Merchant Commission 4.7%
Exchange Rate ALD to USD $0.861
The above block comes from the main site (libertydollar.org) and is usually updated up-to-the-minute, but instead, it has stopped at 1 PM on the 14th. If the raid began at 8 AM on the 14th, this might be reasonable. - inertia186, on 11/15/2007, -1/+6I ordered some Silver Liberties from Libery Dollar back in October. They said is shipped, but by November it never arrived. So I mentioned it and they promptly re-shipped the order which arrived promptly. They told me to keep an eye out for the original order and mark it "return to sender" if it showed up. 8 days ago, it arrived, damaged, with a note from USPS that said it happened in transit. The USPS note also had instructions for filing a "rifling claim.” I marked it “return to sender.”
Before dropping it back into the mailbox, I looked to see if everything was there, and the actual silver was missing. Maybe this was some evidence gathering before the raid or just a coincidence. - Cutkomp, on 11/15/2007, -2/+7Nothing on Kitco yet either. They are usually pretty fast with gold news. If it is true news then I would expect that reputable gold and other news outlets will approach the release of information with great caution. The implications are very big here.
- OnGard4Liberty, on 11/15/2007, -0/+5If you want liberty, check out http://www.freestateproject.org/
- faithfreedom, on 11/15/2007, -1/+6Several people received emails. That's not a hoax. I think all the computers and important documents are confiscated. That's why they are slow in updating their website.
- bradspangler, on 11/15/2007, -1/+6@gn0stik: Congratulations on being able to recite from memory the same ruling class mythology that has been pounded into EVERYBODY's heads since grade school.
Did ya think we were just slow learners? Maybe didn't hear?
It never occurred to you that we might have reasons to disagree with the assertions you're making and which you are probably to intellectually lazy to even *begin* to know how to back up with logical argument.
Very simply put, you're wrong. Here's a starting point...
Chaos Theory: Two Essays on Market Anarchy
http://www.mises.org/books/chaostheory.pdf - inactive, on 11/15/2007, -0/+5The IRS has no raiding powers. That is why when you see an "IRS raid" they always have FBI or ATF agents with them doing the actual raiding.
- mikectw, on 11/15/2007, -0/+5It's obvious whats happening, everyone who opposes anything the establishment stands for is being folded into a terrorist when the facts are they are the terrorists.
- bradspangler, on 11/15/2007, -4/+8Nothing about it so far on the LD web site. Checked Google News and nothing so far. Although I Dugg this, I won't do anything else to promote the story until I get some confirmation.
- inactive, on 11/15/2007, -0/+4I bet the mail stole it. I ordered some liberty dollars and other coins through the mail and the delivery guy, whether USPS, UPS, or FedEx, made a comment about "here's your box of money" EVERY time. Those guys KNOW what's in the boxes. So I started getting it shipped to my work address instead, to be a bit safer, and buy locally more often.
- PongGod, on 11/15/2007, -1/+5Yeah, imagine that. The media ignoring a story of the Feds harassing a peaceful, pro-liberty enterprise. Now, if Bernard had sexually assaulted a crippled child...
- inertia186, on 11/15/2007, -1/+5I personally got the e-mail, and I'm still looking for a news outlet to report it.
- inertia186, on 11/15/2007, -0/+4Supposedly, a November 9th, 2007 warrant explains that from August 2005 through July 2007 the FBI had "conducted undercover operations to determine the legality of the American Liberty Dollar currency." This warrant notes that the agent observed von NotHaus driving a '99 Cadillac Deville and von NotHaus sold an undercover agent a Liberty Dollar T-shirt... um-kay? Clearly this is being trumped up.
- inactive, on 11/16/2007, -0/+4Here's from the web site:
http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/legal/raid.htm -
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