What is Digg?22 Comments
- stonebear, on 06/06/2008, -2/+8As a US citizen, I'm deeply ashamed that it is true.
"Rome brings peace to the world, and leaves behind her a wasteland." ~ Tacitus - hawkeye17, on 06/06/2008, -2/+7History will NOT be kind to Bush Co. and rightfully so. Enjoy the Legacy.
- hawkeye17, on 06/06/2008, -2/+5Dude take off the tinfoil hat and join the rest of us in the real world.
- actorboy, on 06/07/2008, -1/+3Constant attack? Do explain.
- inactive, on 06/07/2008, -3/+4I think Europe has more to be ashamed for considering this news.
- HanFastolfe, on 06/08/2008, -0/+1@DonVitto
"You have understood absolutely nothing. "
Naw, I knew what you were getting at.
"First of all, I have to say that I respect US soberany, I mean, I don't care about what you do, how you organize your lives, how you administrate your country,... it's not my business."
That's might kind of you.
"Now, you can imagine a neighborhood, every neighbor can do whatever they want inside their houses. But if one neighbor wants to something that can affect others neighbors. The first thing, is talk with the neighbors who will be affected, isn't. I think is common sense."
Analogies, are not always applicable. In this instance it's entirely too simplistic. You assume that all these neighbors are equal in capability, and influence. And, therefor should have equal representation/consideration. This is not the case, especially concerns US - European relations. To extend your analogy closer to reality:
One of the neighbors wanted to be left alone as most of the neighborhood was killing each other as fast and furiously as their combined efforts could produce. At some point this one recalcitrant neighbor (the US) became involved in tipping the point for one group, so that they all stopped killing each other (WWI). Then promptly went back to wanting to being left alone.
The old neighborhood a few years later decided to rekindle past confrontations. Returning to epic slaughter , and destruction. The same reluctant neighbor didn't want to get involved this time either. But, things being what they sometimes are, joined the old pals against the usual suspects to restore order.
The ending this time was different. The old order of who held power in the neighborhood was broken as never before. One of the neighbors (USSR) had fundamentally shifted the power structure of the neighborhood that if the reluctant one(US), went home it was certain that the remaining members wouldn't be able to defend themselves at all. And, after poking around the old neighborhood, seeing what was cooking is some of the ovens (understanding the true fundamental nature of European evil at the death camps), the stakes were too high for the old neighborhood to be entrusted (in totality) with the policing thereof.
We learned our lesson, we tried to leave Europe alone after WWI, you people couldn't handle it. So if we're just going to drug back in to keep the whole place from burning to the ground, we might as well stay. If Europe had invested as much into the security of North America I'm sure that they would want a large say in how that security plays out. As it is we have enough dead buried in Europe.
"Sometimes the best individual result of a game, it's not the best game result, even for the winner."
This is true. It is nice when nations can come together in a common cause, or effort, but not required. The problems with interlocking alliances is fundamentally underscored by the nature of the beginning of WWI. It's not an either/or equation. Sometimes it's in a nation's own best interests to be unilateral, sometimes it's not.
"The point here is that we are "playing" together, and the US need the others countries of world as the other countries need US. You can't play alone, with your own rules."
We are the third largest nation in the world. Besides oil (mostly from Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela), a chuck of goodies from China, Japan, and Taiwan. We simply kinda don't need the rest of the world. If were to drill the heck out of our own land (commit ourselves like Brazil to not importing oil), then reopen our factories again, and go back to making all our own stuff we could get along quite nicely. We've done it before. So with that in mind, we have the unique opportunity of playing by our own rules in a way many other nations can only be envious of. This is not meant to imply that we don't wish to play well with others, just that sometimes it's not in our best interest to do so, so we reserve the right not to.
"Unilateralism isn't a good politic for external relationship."
If a notions only concern is being seen as nice, then it might not be, that's part of the equation that must be taken into consideration before an action is taken unilaterally i.e. Does the risk of action (or inaction), outweigh the benifit of the action proposed? e.g. we tried to negotiate for the rights to build the Panama Canal. When that wasn't going where we thought it should, we supported Panama to break away, and built the Canal anyway. It was in the best interest of the US to build and control the canal. It did sour out relations with Columbia, but we settled for $25mil, and we get along today. The importance of that canal can not be stressed enough throughout it's existence.
"I repeat, in your country do whatever you want, when you want, the way you want. But when you have to do something out of your borders, remember, you have neighbors."
We have a global reach with global considerations. From the straights of Taiwan, to the Straits of Hormuz. From Korean DMZ, to new the members of NATO. We understand, better then most nations, that we have neighbors. Compared to every other nation that ever had such global reach we have shown more deference to the inhabitance therein. That doesn't mean it's absolute, nor should it be. We've seen the slavery and misery that Europe inflicted on the world when they held the kind of power we hold today, and have avoided it to fairly good degree. Sure we're not perfect, but we're not going to war with China to enforce the sale of opium in their country, or some other such Euro douchebaggery.
We will continue to act in our own interests, from time to time, and the opinion of the rest of world be damned. This will hold true no matter what party or individual is ensconced at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. It's the rugged American exceptionalism , of Pax Americana that put a stop to general global warfare, ushering in a period of peace and prosperity unprecedented in the history of the known universe. As imperfect as it is, it's better the what preceded it. - inactive, on 06/07/2008, -3/+4Exactly what color is the sky in this little world you've created for yourself?
- DonVitto, on 06/08/2008, -0/+1You have understood absolutely nothing. First of all, I have to say that I respect US soberany, I mean, I don't care about what you do, how you organize your lives, how you administrate your country,... it's not my business.
Now, you can imagine a neighborhood, every neighbor can do whatever they want inside their houses. But if one neighbor wants to something that can affect others neighbors. The first thing, is talk with the neighbors who will be affected, isn't. I think is common sense.
Do you know what "Game theory" is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory or "Nash equilibrium" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nash_equilibrium I promise, it would be a interesting read for you.
Sometimes the best individual result of a game, it's not the best game result, even for the winner. The point here is that we are "playing" together, and the US need the others countries of world as the other countries need US. You can't play alone, with your own rules.
Unilateralism isn't a good politic for external relationship. I repeat, in your country do whatever you want, when you want, the way you want. But when you have to do something out of your borders, remember, you have neighbors. - HanFastolfe, on 06/08/2008, -0/+1It's wonderful that the Europeans are free to express their opinions. Collectively, as concerns United States domestic politics, that relevancy, add together, equals zero. As much I expect, you, not to care about, me, when electing your president, rest assured that that your opinion (nor that of the rest of the world) will not have any weight upon me this November.
If it wasn't for the fact that Europe has given the world so much true evil, European opinion on the issue of evil would be palpably impudent. To use the word evil in connotation to President Bush only cheapens the word evil. Hence, when true evil is referenced to (the kind that Europe germinates so readily), e.g. Hitler = evil, the word itself loses any meaning from a passionate zeal of overuse.
(to lose my typical detached tone for a sec)
We've seen Evil, Europe showed it to us. It's no wonder so many Europeans fled (for centuries) to establish decent countries in the Americas. Those settlers/explorers/conquerors didn't care what evil they did to the indigenous peoples they encountered (it's what they knew from their European experiences). Slavery was an institution of evil inherited from the Europeans. We almost destroyed our nation shedding that sin. The European wars of the 20th century really opened our isolationist eyes to horrific evil of European proclivities run amok. So much that we realized then that you people really can't be trusted, in totality, with your own security (there's already enough of our dead buried in Europe).
(detachment back on)
Being Lithuanian (formerly a S.S.R.), you, should have a tangible understanding of what evil really is (forced collectivization sound familiar?). And, know deep in your heart that George W. Bush just isn't it. For you to think it belies a fundamental disconnect from Solzhenitsyn, and Pasternak. The peoples of the Russia, and eastern Europe would have gotten down on their knees, and thanked god if somehow they could have had George W. Bush ( the diet coke of evil, one calorie, not evil enough) as a leader in Moscow, compared to Joesph Stalin (One death is a tragedy, a million is just a statistic) . Those people's of that time knew what true evil was. It's testament to the great success of Pax Americana that the peoples of Europe today ignorantly think Bush = Evil. Although, it's also sad that so many have lost their historical context to even come to that erroneous conclusion. - DonVitto, on 06/07/2008, -1/+2As European, I can say, we don't hate simple Americans, or your government. The actions of your government is what we hate.
The world isn't Bush's Rancho, and the decisions which can affect, positively or negatively, the entire world, must be taken by consensus in the UN (It's the function of the UN, isn't it?) rather than in The White House.
With a fast pub talk with Americans who are visiting Europe, or even living here, everybody can see that you don't have the government you deserve. I've found some for whom you'd pay her/his weight in gold (it's a metaphor). - HanFastolfe, on 06/07/2008, -4/+5As imperfect as Pax Americana is, it's been infinitely preferable to what the Europeans were doing to keep the peace before it. Yeah for Europe, the place that brought the world Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin. 19mil to 40mil dead from WWI, 40mil to 70 mil dead from WW2, untold tens of millions in the Soviet (and Warsaw Pact nations) gulags. That's just the twentieth century, it's not like were much better at it before. From Napoleon, to the Prussians, they basically were drawing upon the tradition going back to Middles Ages. Their resentment of the United States is natural, we've been able to establish a more lasting peace/security/prosperity, then they have been able to ever accomplish on their own.
- actorboy, on 06/07/2008, -2/+3So, we're in Iraq because the IRA planted a bomb in Belfast? That list includes every attack in the world between 1963-2003, many not even our fights. You might also note that those that do involve us increased *significantly* since Bush took office. But I'm sure you'll say that has nothing to do with Bush' policies, invading nations or putting our troops in harms way for unnecessary wars -- it's just part of taking the fight to them.
I say the best way to handle terrorists is to go after terrorist networks, not entire nations. - HanFastolfe, on 06/08/2008, -0/+1", and the decisions which can affect, positively or negatively, the entire world, must be taken by consensus in the UN (It's the function of the UN, isn't it?) rather than in The White House."
Must? Absolutely not. We elect our own President, of our own nation, to act in the best interests thereof. They are not, your, president. Feel free to determine who your own president is, and how that person acts according to your nations best interests. - Falldog, on 06/07/2008, -1/+1They're welcome to hate our government all the want, I sure do. If they start hating simple Americans because of our government, that's upsetting. I don't treat every German as a Nazi, or every Frenchman as a stuck up waiter.
- ly4u, on 06/07/2008, -1/+1As an EU citizen, I absolutely adore America's history, commitment to freedom, values, people. But unfortunately I have to agree with what the article Title says.
- inactive, on 06/07/2008, -3/+3Yea. How dare we fight back after 30+ years of being under constant attack.
What were we thinking? - rahulbrown, on 06/07/2008, -3/+3Given that Obama is multi-cultural and multi-racial, I think that the world's opinion of us will change pretty fast after he's in office.
- Ablue, on 06/07/2008, -2/+1I think it speaks about the citizens of the US when they stand by and allow themselves to be governed like this.
- inactive, on 06/07/2008, -4/+3
The best way to fight terrorism is to eliminate the funding. Iraq was openly funding terrorists and violating the cease fire agreement.
Tersely worded resolutions from the useless nations just don't seem to work now do they? - inactive, on 06/07/2008, -6/+4The USA has done and continues to do more to protect and spread freedom, democracy, and economic prosperity than the rest of the world. If this is what Europe thinks of the US then ***** them.
- inactive, on 06/07/2008, -5/+3The list is too long to post. Here's a link:
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/5902.htm - inactive, on 06/06/2008, -14/+4And I should care how euro-peons care....why?
Buried. Both for being disingenuous and for being from soros funded thinkprogress.
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