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52 Comments
- nosecohn, on 01/20/2008, -1/+41I actually found myself laughing out loud at this article. Never has it been more apparent that electronic voting is just a hugely bad idea. FTA: "...voters in polling places all over the county used scraps of paper, note book paper, and even paper towels would be accepted as a ballot."
- epicstruggle, on 01/20/2008, -3/+33We really need to re-think and re-do our voting system. There are many parts that are just archaic. We to fix every part of it, not only the controversial. Here is a list of what I feel should be put on the table:
--Proper Id check of all voters, and have it cross checked to make sure that every voter is only registered to vote in one state.
--Paper trail of all ballots. That means either you vote on paper ballots or you have a printed receipt on all e-voting machines that is viewable by the voter.
--Mandatory recount of all elections were 1st and 2nd place are separated by less than 10%
--Increase prison sentences for voter fraud and aggressively go after them.
--Change election date to the weekend or make it a public holiday.
Just a few ideas - hamhat, on 01/20/2008, -1/+19'sleepovers' with the machines; I would rather they be guarded under lock and key and in plain view of security. guess I am funny that way.
vote with paper and pencil. ***** eVoting. - euping, on 01/20/2008, -2/+16Hey is there any way to get the ACLU or someone to sue the FCC for allowing the major networks to not cover this most critical issue to democracy? I mean hey, they are suppose to use those public airwaves for our best interest aren't they?
- Dokument, on 01/20/2008, -3/+14so what you are saying is that once you vote you can wipe your ass with your ballot. Sounds appropriate.
- Jeffler, on 01/20/2008, -1/+11That would be hilarious, if you actually posted it in a relevant topic.
- m0neybags, on 01/20/2008, -2/+10The Summary is an Illogical Run-on Use a Period or Something.
- keepinithamsta, on 01/20/2008, -1/+8Voting machines were the worst idea ever. There is absolutely no benefit to them. Just because we're in the technological age doesn't mean we have to force abysmal security into ever facet of our society.
They don't save time as one would think, they are more insecure than Windows, and the Diebold machines have been proven to not match the paper trails.
I see Clinton winning no matter what happens during the election... - Nicklogan, on 01/20/2008, -1/+7reason why they don't is that 1. they are protected by the government. 2. they(states) probably have signed waivers that they won't bring any lawsuits against said companies. 3. The states have poured way too much funds into the machines some as much as $80 mill per state.
- PHiZ187, on 01/20/2008, -0/+6Why don't counties and states sue the ***** out of Evans and Sutherland or Diebold when their machines catastrophically fail to do what they were designed to do (count votes.) Well, my guess is that counties and states were LAZY when negotiating their contracts with the providers and the providers have inserted contractual language saying that they do not guarantee the machines, and are not responsible for their failures. This is what happens when you put technology-ignorant people in charge of making technological decisions.
- inactive, on 01/20/2008, -1/+6Well, Americans can now laugh at you, because you live in Estonia.
- Rekutyn, on 01/20/2008, -1/+6Voter fraud is much less of a problem than election fraud. These kinds of person-by-person issues can be taken care of once the house itself is in order.
- PlancksCnst, on 01/20/2008, -0/+4How to do "paper trail" successfully (that is without allowing coercion of votes):
Once voting is finished, ticket is printed with info about vote on it, as well as some computer-readable code (barcode, magentic strip, whatever). Voter reviews choice on ticket. Is it wrong? Then feed it back into the machine, vote again, get a new ticket. Is it right? Then feed it into the drop box (it must be fed in drop box to count vote, making it impossible to leave with evidence who who you voted for).
The paper trail may be recounted by feeding the tickets through an electronic reader; if doubt still exists about if the machine-readable portion is correct, humans can read the text which was printed on ticket - the code better match it - perform an audit on whatever size sample you wish to determine accuracy. - Nicklogan, on 01/20/2008, -0/+4Maybe the black/white hats should get together and work out how to get our country back to the people and not to the machines that are owned by the politicians. just a thought
- BradBlog, on 01/20/2008, -0/+4"The thing with Diebold machines is that they are not inherently flawed."
Yes. Actually they are.
"The machines don't screw up, it's the people using them."
No. Actually, it's the machines. The people are doing just fine. Leave the poll workers and the voters alone. It's not their fault that Diebold's ***** machines fail (and fail and fail...) - mal1964, on 01/20/2008, -1/+4In over 200 years no system was perfect, because that's impossible to do. If someone wants to cheat bad enough no matter what it is you cant stop them all the time. You work with what you got and do the best you can with it . some people are going to get away with cheating, but it will be very low percentage and not really worth worrying about.
- Naturalistic, on 01/20/2008, -0/+3It's not hard when your country consists of four people.
- kevinalright, on 01/20/2008, -0/+3LMAO seriously how hard can it be to create a program that counts votes / a machine that isn't easy to break into. i mean got dayum diebold. lets put someone else up to the ***** job.
- Corrosionx, on 01/20/2008, -0/+3The E-voting machines do exactly what they are supposed to do: deliver the results the establishment wants.
- sdlvx, on 01/20/2008, -2/+5And I wonder what exactly goes on in these little sleep overs? I mean that on two levels. haha.
- VitriolAndAngst, on 01/20/2008, -0/+2Republican Operative; a word that means a teddy bear on one side, and a Diebold machine on the other. Sweet dreams of an Oligarchy lay in-between.
- mithrasinvictus, on 01/20/2008, -0/+2Why not give the media a preliminary machine count for their pie charts and later release the hand counted official results?
- inactive, on 01/20/2008, -3/+5Of course, 99.*****% of the time they do vote exactly the way they are supposed to. Some states also require by law that their delegates vote the way they were selected to. So lets bitch about more things that dont really matter.
- mal1964, on 01/20/2008, -0/+2You might want to reconsider this whole living in America thing over. It might not be the best fit for you, and since you do live here you have many options.
- stoanhart, on 01/20/2008, -0/+2I think eVoting is a good idea if done right:
1) The actual computer is a low-cost, low-power computer so that it can be permanently sealed in a welded shut metal case with no openings at all (except VGA and USB port). If it breaks, discard it since it's cheap. Having the case removable means the machine can by physically hacked.
2) All software is open source. Neither the machine or the software is made by any private company. The government hires a few developers to build the thing, and the entire machine is completely transparent to the taxpayers who are sponsoring its construction.
3) Every machine prints out (not using thermal ink) a piece of paper with a unique ID that corresponds to the vote. Users can later check their vote online using this ID. The list of randomID->Vote is publicly available the second the election is over. - h3lx, on 01/20/2008, -0/+2wtf?
- cftf, on 01/21/2008, -0/+2Here's another idea. Have two possible ways to vote, 1) using paper and secret ballots, 2) using electronic machines with PUBLIC ballots.
That is, anyone who wants a secret ballot can still have it, but they have to vote on a traditional paper ballot. The rest vote on the machines; these votes are all collected, along with the name and address of the voter, and posted on the Internet in a spreadsheet. That way you can actually see your vote has been tallied (even more reliably than with a secret ballot) and stuffing ballots is near impossible.
Personally I do not like secret ballots. Besides making vote fraud possible, it is aggression against your neighbor with no consequences. I think people should stand up for what they believe in. If they want to tax me, or force me not to smoke in public, or vote for a fascist like George Bush, then they ought to have the balls to do it publicly. - mal1964, on 01/20/2008, -0/+2Who is old enough to remember on election day restaurants, bars, and liquor stores could not sell booze while the polls where open?
- VitriolAndAngst, on 01/20/2008, -1/+2-- Only a small fraction of voters vote in the wrong state -- usually college students. It's a felony, and after spending millions to fight this "phony" cause, there was only one person caught in Florida for doing it; Anne Coulter. Wow, spend Millions to stop Anne Coulter -- you know, it just might be worth it.
>> Paper trail -- no, just use damn paper. What you vote with is what you count. Period. I would add an "internet trail" -- plug in your social security number and a pass code, and LOOK at how you voted. That would be the database used to check votes.
>> Mandatory recounts are already there for 1% margins. A recount doesn't work if you haven't correctly set up HOW people vote and also used Republican dirty tricks to lock out voters -- which is what the whole "voter ID" controversy is about. To stop ONE Anne Coutler from voting in the wrong district, they keep 80,000 blacks from voting. There is NO penalty for denying someone a vote -- but there is a federal crime if you vote twice. Which one is more likely to swing an election?
>> Well, the people who helped rigg the 2004 Ohio election are going to jail for 18 months -- I agree with you hear. But since only a small fraction of people involved in this EVER get a punishment -- we really need to step up the investigations, not the penalties.
>> Weekends and holidays -- check. I agree.
We also need to have an Instant run-off in all states. And the ability to vote your preference for more than one candidate. If I like Kucinich and Edwards, I shouldn't have to just vote for Obama because I'm worried about Hillary. I'm only trusting Obama slightly more than Hillary because they both get HUGE corporate donations. But our election system forces me to try to predict WHO will do the least damage from amongst the candidates that the Media has anointed. - inactive, on 01/20/2008, -1/+2That statement could only be true if the elections weren't rigged. 99% of the time, America votes the way they wanted it to vote.
- Archer007, on 01/20/2008, -0/+1Skynet?
- unclerichard, on 01/20/2008, -0/+1Estonia population: 1.4 million
- monkeypill, on 01/20/2008, -2/+3http://www.uncountedthemovie.com/trailer.html
- VitriolAndAngst, on 01/20/2008, -0/+1The only reason to have them, is to rig an election. That is why we have them.
Yes, I'm a progressive, and I see Clinton winning -- not JUST because the country is sick of Republicans, but because Clinton will not investigate the many crimes of this Administration. They pretend she is the opponent while secretly working to use her as the fallback position. I don't think there is one serious Republican candidate -- it's a joke. But they are playing both ends against the middle. - inactive, on 01/20/2008, -1/+2Receipts are a great idea if you want to make it easier to sell votes. And I'm sure increased penalties will work fine, especially when voting machines are going home with poll workers!
Get real, man. Dugg down. - swaddict, on 01/21/2008, -0/+1I thought Huckabee's CNN comment on the snow was interesting...wouldn't that be God's way of preventing people from voting for him?
- rarson, on 01/21/2008, -0/+1Why not just have the touchscreens print out a ballot with the bubble filled in for you? Then feed the ballot into the counting machine as normal. This would easily create two counts that would have to match each other. The person would verify their vote is correct on the print out, as you suggested. If the counts don't match, then recount them by hand.
It would be pretty easy to do, too. Just fill the touch screen printers with ballots and write some software that puts a black dot in the right place. The old vote counting machines wouldn't have to go to waste either. It's still not perfect, but you'd now have to rig every single machine at a poll in order to get the counts to match, and it would be easy and automatic to tell if something funny is going on (even if it is just a machine malfunction and not someone trying to rig the machines).
This might actually be better than the current method because it creates 3 different records for each vote: the electronic record, the machine counted record, and the paper record. It would also make voting easier because all the voter would have to do is touch the screen, verify the printout, and feed it into the counting machine. The touch screen machines should be open source, too, to prevent any funny business by the manufacturers. - rarson, on 01/21/2008, -0/+1How does the current system prevent coercion of votes?
- PlancksCnst, on 01/20/2008, -0/+1#3 will not work because it allows the coercion of votes.
Vote for Nick the Mobster, bring me your randomID afterwards; once the vote checks out, I pay you $100 (and I won't shoot out your kneecaps). - Jareth86, on 01/21/2008, -0/+1Spoiler alert:
E-voting never goes away and the republicans "win by a hair" forever. Elections are eventually phased out. - totoro00, on 11/11/2008, -0/+0http://y-klaw.com/
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- rmad1949, on 01/20/2008, -2/+1The voting machine and the man that writes the software was warning us in 2000, and STILL Americans act as if surprised. It is impossible to wake up enough people from their deep sleep in apathy land. Old vid, nothing new. You can vote... and maybe it will count, maybe it won't, maybe it will go to somebody else on the ballot... what exactly, is the truth, the reality outside your little self-absorbed box that you believe is the truth? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEzY2tnwExs
- Sornos, on 01/20/2008, -4/+2The thing with Diebold machines is that they are not inherently flawed. The machines don't screw up, it's the people using them. They do make counting easier, but to make things fair we need to allow every party to count the votes, so that one party can not manipulate the results subtly.
- drmobutu, on 01/20/2008, -6/+3No wonder each Republican Primary has been coming up with a different winner...they just don't play fair, even (especially?) within their own Party...
- t2t2, on 01/20/2008, -7/+3Well Estonians can now laugh at USA, as we managed to do E-Voting without any problems ;)
http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/03/estonians-first ... - ValVedRaY, on 01/20/2008, -16/+12Ron Paul 2008!!!!!!!!!
- Merkidemis, on 01/20/2008, -8/+3Well, who the public votes for is irrelevant anyway, as all we're doing is selecting delegates to vote on our behalf, both in the primaries and in the general election. Of course, those delegates are under no obligation whatsoever to vote how we want them to.
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