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- londubh, on 07/21/2008, -4/+52These were top officials appointed by Bush. They weren't Democrats but loyal Republicans who feared the Cheney monster.
- tbsa, on 07/21/2008, -3/+41I am thinking they were correct to fear Darth and the "dark side" Never know when someone might have a little accident. They can't let the full scope and nature of their crimes ever come to light.
- jei731, on 07/22/2008, -4/+27USA has been taken over by evil, and all the good people are doing nothing while their country is being run to bankruptcy. USA is going to end up like Zimbabwe.
- Olfster, on 07/22/2008, -2/+22It is rather scary nowadays we fear our own government more than we fear terrorists. What does that say?
- Nahanter, on 07/22/2008, -4/+23WARNING: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, AND WITH DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President, 69 members of the Senate and 293 members of the House of Representatives.
4th Amendment Hit Squad from http://www.bluetidalwave.com/2008/07/fisa-hit-list ...
On Wednesday July 9, 2008 our U.S. Constitution, specifically the 4th amendment was officially torched by the U.S. government. The Democratic leadership in control of the 110th Congress lighted the definitive match to burn up every citizen's civil liberties while a giddy unpopular President George Bush and his highly voter despised rubber stamp Republican caucus held the gas can in bravado glee.
The world would be a better place if Bush was as an effective leader of the globe as he is at whipping the Congressional Democrats in legislative battles.
Twenty One Senate Democrats voted to give final approval today to broadening the government’s spy powers and providing legal immunity for the phone companies that took part in the illegal Bush wiretapping program. - NBGill, on 07/21/2008, -3/+22Joe Scarborough seems to me to be parroting a fairly typical fascist apologia here. There is a certain type of relatively reactionary middle-class Irish Catholic from whom this is all too easy - see the similarities with Chris Matthews and Mike Barnicle. To some extent this was also true for Tim Russert. These guys are used by the news corporations as good guys to put on camera to explain the "truth," or at least to popularize the corporate party line with the regular guy /joe six-pack crowd.
Interrogation experts pretty commonly deny the utility of torture in extracting high quality information for the simple reason that someone who is being tortured is very likely to tell you what they think you want to hear. - principle, on 07/21/2008, -4/+20If Jim Comey and Jack Goldsmith ever testify that they warned the Administration about the illegality of the memos, then Bush/Chaney cannot argue that they only relied on the legal opinions. Their testimony, in addition to John Ashcroft’s recent testimony to the same effect, is sufficient to demonstrate that the Administration knowingly and willingly acted contrary to US law.
- rz8472, on 07/22/2008, -2/+17"I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for."
- Howard Dean - jei731, on 07/22/2008, -2/+16WTO is the biggest proponent of globalization and neocons are it's biggest champions.
- PhilLesh69, on 07/22/2008, -1/+14l300, you've been lied to.
If you think that supporting a "republican" candidate is going to save you from the globalists, you aren't paying close enough attention.
Yes, a real republican would. But there are barely any real republicans left anymore. Bush isn't. McCain hasn't been for a couple years (at least not since he was promised the presidency by the other neocons).
At least you realize that we do not want to go down the path we're being led, towards a socialist global one world government. But what you need to realize is that BOTH parties are taking us there.
Seriously. The "two party system" has been usurped by wealthy people who want to create a socialist world where labor is controlled like any other resource. That's why the conservative disdain for unions works for them. No unions only means government management of labor, to them.
Look up Leo Strauss, a professor from the University of Chicago (he's dead now), who taugh most neocons and many liberals. - PhilLesh69, on 07/22/2008, -1/+13Alberto Gonzales and Andrew Card visited Ashcroft in the hospital to try to get him to override the acting Attorney General's denial of those wiretaps.
I wonder if they didn't threaten to pull his IV out, or cut off his oxygen or something.
Strangely, as much as Ashcroft has been a ***** crazy just like the rest of them, he somehow grew some balls and refused to cave in. I guess because he was just refusing to override someone else's decision, and it was the acting AG that was actually denying the neocons the right to wiretap. Maybe he felt safe being once removed from the actual decision. - jei731, on 07/22/2008, -1/+12They know what has been done and knew to expect the same.
- Hangly, on 07/22/2008, -1/+12It says your conditioning has worn off. Report to your local reprogramming center immediately to have your neurons diddled.
- dedknedy, on 07/22/2008, -3/+14We've all just been added to the terrorist watch list.
- Hangly, on 07/22/2008, -1/+12A year ago I would have laughed at you.
But you're right, evil is the only word for it. - cambob76, on 07/22/2008, -2/+12We're going to be hearing stuff like this for years. Too bad it won't be during a trial for Cheney.
- Hangly, on 07/22/2008, -1/+11Never know when someone might get Wellstoned.
- jonthebishop, on 07/22/2008, -1/+11I love that story. Check out Chenney's Law on PBS's website under Frontline. The acting AG at the time gives an account of what happened in the hospital room and it is a pretty amazing story. He rushed there when he heard Gonzales and Card were on the way.
- quesi, on 07/22/2008, -3/+13Neocons are liberals. I300 seems to be confused. The "war on terror" is a lie, perpetrated by the liberal neocons. Conservatives don't START wars, Conservatives don't crap on the Constitution. A real Conservative would realize that Bush, Cheney, and their Administration full of dual citizen Israelis are anything but Conservative at best, and more realistically enemies domestic.
- inactive, on 07/22/2008, -2/+11"Are you suggesting that the vice president of the United States is a fool?" he asked. - I think he pretty much proves it on a daily basis.
- stinkymonkey, on 07/22/2008, -3/+12I cant stand anyone who is apologetic on torture:
Scarborough " ... In 2002 and 2003 there was an urgency, not just by an extreme administration ... but by Americans to figure out where the next attack was coming from."
So using that twisted logic, when the next terrorist attack comes we can call go back to a life of fear, blindly trusting the government to secretly torture prisoners,and lead us down a path to war (Iran) that really has nothing to do with the people who attacked us.
I'm sorry, these types of excuses and the people who validate them are sickening to me and in my view, the real terrorists. - PhilLesh69, on 07/22/2008, -1/+10l300,
Do you really believe that your neighbors are trying to destroy America because they love terrorists?
Do you hide out in your basement often?
Holy *****, dude, you have got to turn off Fox News for a few days and start learning about the real world. Fox News has a job, they are there to make people like you afraid of everything and everyone that doesn't fit in your narrow world view.
Democrats do not hate the troops. They don't want the islamofascists hiding under your bed to kill you, and they don't want to protect people from torture and cheer the beheading of innocent Americans.
You need some sort of deprogramming. Trust me, you have gone over the edge. I'm a republican, I'm just one of those "paleoconservatives" because I didn't ride the wave of fear alongside all the other neocon supporters. - kronik, on 07/22/2008, -2/+10Doesn't surprise me at all. The two senators who could have stopped the Patriot Act from being passed got anthrax in their mail.
- quesi, on 07/22/2008, -2/+10So are you buying this ***** or selling it?
"War on Terror" is based on these kind of lies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGhGHxw0mSo
"Oh, you bet - this is serious business..."
People that try to justify the destruction of liberty are those that hate America. - GorfTron, on 07/22/2008, -2/+10From the Declaration of Independance "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
So, when do we start? - stinkymonkey, on 07/22/2008, -1/+9I300, You hate facts don't you. I would just like to highlight one of them:
If America continues to use torture (which you clearly want), in effect we give a stamp of approval to the world that it's ok to torture. So when an American Soldier is captured by anyone for any reason, they can be tortured in the exact same way we torture people. So you are actually validating the torture of Americans soldiers.
Of course you won't believe it, but its still true. - PhilLesh69, on 07/22/2008, -1/+9But, don't you realize, those right wing moonbats are the ones who support bush?
These are the Rush Limbaugh/Bill O'Reilly fans, not so far right that they joined a militia, because they are sycophants who just want a good job from the god of government. They love war because it proves that they are strong people. They have magnets on their SUVs, because they are doing thier part in the war on terror. - Hellman109, on 07/22/2008, -2/+9Err the US government illegally wiretap everyone.
So their calls and such probably were being recorded - Pittance, on 07/22/2008, -0/+6Paranoia is a mental condition. Fear of an ethereal source that exists is not. The government can be considered ethereal since it is a collection of partially-joined groups of people, most of which cannot be directly targeted since they are more than just their jobs. Either way, fearing the government and its officers is not a mental disorder, it is normal under some governments.
- DestroyFascism, on 07/22/2008, -0/+6Don't shoot me in the face bro...
- badfish0116, on 07/22/2008, -0/+5+1 for Paul Wellstone
- Hangly, on 07/22/2008, -2/+7@quesi- that's not quite fair. Its true that neoconservatism is an outgrowth of, and a response to liberalism but that doesn't make them equivalent.
Though I disagree with the materialism and determinism of liberalism, liberals at the very least believe in the value and dignity of human life. Neoconservatism does not. It is as close as one can get to nihilism while still remaining a political philosophy.
That is to say, neoconservatism is materialist and determinist *without* valuing human beings, or anything else for that matter beyond power for its own sake. - inactive, on 07/21/2008, -9/+14A lot of people who question Bush suddenly seem to find a desire to kill themselves.
- quesi, on 07/22/2008, -0/+4On closer examination, the original parchment copy shows a semi-colon - but not where you had it. It's placed as so
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects; against unreasonable searches and seizures
Just saying. - PhilLesh69, on 07/22/2008, -1/+5Alright, I'm trying to get what you are saying.
I don't think you and I are very far off from each other. We might not be using the same terminology, we might be coming at this from different angles, or something.
Most Republicans also are good and decent people. Unfortunately, most of them do not realize that the Republican party has been coopted by the neocon movement.
Back in the 1970's, these guys, especially Rumsfeld and Cheney, were called "the ***** crazies", and even Powell said that about these guys, before he resigned from the Bush Administration.
Like you said, neoconservatism is an outgrowth of, and a response to liberalism. Sure, that doesn't make them equivalent. Hillary was a goldwater girl, but she is nothing like a conservative as we know it today. Neocons are a product of Straussian liberalism. They are not liberals, today. Liberals are different, now, than they were back then.
This isn't semantics, and I don't think that you or I are playing semantics. This is more about understanding the drastic change in American politics, a change that most people don't seem to be aware of, or care to understand.
At least you and I are trying to keep track. - DestroyFascism, on 07/22/2008, -1/+5Go to a Republican Party meeting and be brainwashed again...
- dugmartsch, on 07/22/2008, -0/+4you wanna source that?
- Hangly, on 07/22/2008, -1/+5Yes, I know that. Also many of the Fascists were former Socialists. There is unmistakably a direct line linking utilitarianism to deterministic liberalism and finally to neoconservatism.
Liberals, though I believe their philosophy is flawed, are at least by-and-large good and decent people. For that reason I don't think they deserve to be associated with the neocons.
Such comparisons generate more heat than light, if you follow me. - PHiZ187, on 07/22/2008, -0/+4That is the culture of fear and intimidation that disregard for the law, and the existence of secret torture prisons that people can be disappeared to breeds.
- wowsah156, on 07/22/2008, -1/+5What this tells us is that the white house staff who are doing the work of Bush and cheney are probably finding ways to stifle or hold up their cowardly blood lust. there are probably a lot of unseen unknown good people in the white house who have stalled world war three, at expense to their own careers and physical health. Send those unseen heroes prayers and love.
- kemp34, on 07/22/2008, -0/+4When you fear your government you have tyranny.
- symbolicsorcery, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3The only difference between the mafia and the government is the projection of authority.
- Hangly, on 07/22/2008, -3/+6Clinton probably did have Vince Foster killed.
- quesi, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3If our actions are against the Constitution, then the Constitution means nothing. Yeah, I know - they've been ignoring it, and we've been letting them. BUT, it's still there... Beats trying to come up with a new one. Read it, learn it, know it, uphold it, make them uphold their oaths!
- ninepointfive, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3right, because they'd draft you right up for the wars!
- PhilLesh69, on 07/22/2008, -1/+4Holy *****! stagmire is General Michael Hayden!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qX_BjzUJmg
stagmire, you obviously have never read the constitution, because it explicitly states that no WARRANT shall issue....
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/html/amdt4.h ...
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,
and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be
violated; and no Warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported
by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be
searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
So, yes, I'm one of those ***** who believes the constitution prohibits warrantless searches. You're one of those ***** who believes your government is infallible and should be able to do whatever it takes to protect you from the islamofascists.
I hold strong to American principles. You cower in fear. - PhilLesh69, on 07/22/2008, -1/+4Not republicans, just the rabid fools that think they are supporting republicans while they are only supporting a narrow agenda led by the neocons.
- kingUssop, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3The fact is those in power have abused their power in every way, including fear-mongering that directly causes paranoia.
- quesi, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3Someone needs to read the Preamble to the Bill of Rights. Which begins:
THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.
~in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers~
Then take the 4th Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
It's not a semi-colon, it's a pesky little comma. Check it out for yourself-
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/charters ...
It's listed as the sixth amendment on the original Bill of Rights - remember, a couple weren't ratified.
You are using misconstruction stagmire. You FAIL at being an American, and probably aren't. Thank you for your misinterpretation, you represent all that is wrong with America. - quesi, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3I think it's a matter of the ever-changing-label-system so implored by those in the political arena today. Actions speak louder than words.
Phil! where you been, man? -
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