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Creeping Fascism: From Nazi Germany to Post 9/11 America

alternet.org — "Americans today are seeing the same sheepish submissiveness that characterized Germany after the burning of the Reichstag." Is democracy slowly disappearing? Hitler and Franco did it in Germany and Spain. Is Bush doing it in the USA?

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  • Evermin7, on 12/30/2007, -45/+217To anyone who thinks that I am crazy for believing that this is happening: F*CK YOU!
    • kazamx, on 12/30/2007, -12/+212You just have to look at how easily Americans have abandoned their traditional views of the world to see how easy it is for a good country to do evil things.

      In the Cold war your fathers saw how evil the Russian secret police were. They saw how dangerous it was to give the Government the power to monitor everyones movements for any reason. Today Americans have no problem

      In WW2 your grandfathers argued against torture. While facing the most powerful war Machine ever they held themselves above the evil that torture represents Today America tortures.

      In WW1 Your great great grandfathers argued against big business being in control of Government. Today thats how politics works in the US.

      Everything those who came before you died for you have given up. What did it take for you to give it all up? a few men in 4 planes. The entire USSR with 40,000 nukes couldn't break your fathers. Nazi Germany who had taken control of almost all of Europe and had almost beaten the Mighty British Empire could not make your grandfathers sink to their level. But today, in your fear, you gave it all away.
      • phenry50BMG, on 12/30/2007, -8/+64Well put. I believe it goes a bit deeper than just 9/11. Most people are simply apathetic. As long as there is cold beer in the fridge and their favorite show is on, nothing else matters. The few of us who do care and see what is happening constantly hear "well, there's nothing we can do about it". Thank God the FF didn't have that attitude. I figure many eyes will be opened when the next big 'event' hits and Bush or whomever declares martial law. I wouldn't want to live in a large city. The riots/chaos will be ugly.
        • kazamx, on 12/30/2007, -4/+20Nah he will do it in conjunction with the TV networks and big beer companies. Just before he announces martial law, the TV networks will put on a whole bunch of great shows, The day before the big beer companies will announce 3 for 1 deals. This way everyone will be soo happy with the good TV and all the beer in their fridge, they won't notice.
        • thedragon4453, on 12/30/2007, -3/+11I hope that something like that does actually wake up this country. I will probably just leave. I think our current administration took 1984 not as a lesson, but a roadmap.
          • bjornski, on 12/30/2007, -0/+9You think you'll be able to "just leave"?

            Hehehe.

            I don't think so.
          • kilofox, on 12/30/2007, -2/+7From your parents basement to out of the country ..... amazing!
          • AdamGorley, on 01/03/2008, -0/+1I'm not sure if you understand that it's almost precisely your attitude of "I will probably just leave" that has caused the current lack of democracy/citizenship. Why not stand up for your rights and "wake up this country" yourself?
        • randomerratum, on 06/10/2008, -1/+9I like to give most american people more credit then that. Yes, that is what it takes to satisfy most of us, a beer and a show... but also - this country has driven the people into this senseless apathy. We've got so much ***** happening to us personally, ***** healthcare, ***** taxes, crazy credit card debt, bad jobs, un-obligated corporate employers - we work 40+ hours a week before we are allowed to come home and start to take care of ourselves let alone our families... the world has a problem outside the hamster cage? ***** it! I've been just trying to find meaning in my life for the past 9 hours, all I feel like is a beer and an episode of modern marvels! I don't owe anyone anything else!

          This is the conspiracy - we each get spun around so crazily every day that we can't all take a single step in the same direction. The american people are WORN OUT and it's only 6pm.

          I don't have any answers, but I can tell you that this is why it's happening.
          • aukxsona, on 12/31/2007, -1/+5Yes, and they are doing ti to the kids too. Systematic schooling that lags on for hours and hours. Psychological testing, drugging, and of course insubordination is now a crime punishable by detention or worse a paddle. It is all brain washing, because with all this extra effort we slip fruther and further down the toilet in education...
        • momomathew, on 12/31/2007, -4/+1The content of your comment is what is wrong.......
          Most of the problems you state, you blame on someone else. The problems alot of us Americans complain about, we try to blame others instead of looking into a mirror. You have ***** healthcare, crazy credit card debt,and a bad job these are all YOUR fault. Not your neighbor, not mine, and least of all not your employer.
          • aadyss, on 01/01/2008, -0/+0A beliver in personal resonsibiliy. Sorry momomathew. These people will never accept responsibiplity for anything. It would require much too much effort on their part. Big "L" on their foreheads.
      • kilofox, on 12/30/2007, -29/+24You are a moron Kaz.... My grandfather was in WW2. They shot POWS as in executed. The US incinerated hundreds of thousands of people. Fire bombed Tokyo and burned to death thousands of civilians. Mean while back at home. Thousands of Japanese American citizens were forced into concentration camps because of their heritage.

        The civil rights act didnt even exist Johnson signed it in the sixties.

        This country has survived dark times and overcame them. If you think for a moment that our grandfathers and great grandfathers were bastions of freedom and rights you are sorely mistaken or you slept in history class.
        Bush is gone is 2009.... I guarantee it.
        You have only proved that you are an emotional inexperienced young adult. I hope you read this crap you are spewing 10-15 years from now when you have a more mature outlook and have shaved your chin beard.
        • osbjmg, on 12/30/2007, -8/+24If he learned this in history class, why do you need to bring your grandfather as a character witness?

          In all seriousness, I don't know why people think this can't happen today. Don't be ignorant guys, this can and is happening right now.
          • Ajajadude, on 12/30/2007, -13/+4Why won't it happen? We've spent our entire lives living "free." For us to become some sort of Nazi Germany or Stalanistic Soviet Union just wouldn't fly with much of anyone.
          • kilofox, on 12/30/2007, -6/+2He obviously learned nothing in history class.
        • kilofox, on 12/30/2007, -17/+9You are missing my point ... ITS ALREADY HAPPENED! and on a much much larger scale than today. Before Bush took office we have already tortured, executed pows, denied people civil rights. McCarthism etc etc. For Christ's sake... Japanese Americans were in concentration camps. Are they there now? No.
          It will take much more to make me declare that we are headed to being a 2nd Nazi Germany... Why 1) I am not in college/highshcool 2) I dont live with my parents anymore 3) I have no partisan political beliefs.
          Am I concerned about the Patriot Act and Gitmo? Yes... Am I hysterical about it and think we are headed to 1984, V for Vendetta, Nazi Germany etc etc... No
          • gwolf, on 12/30/2007, -4/+2Then you had better wake up. At least when the knight stick sings you a lullaby you will know where it came from. If there rights of others are abridged and our laws treated as mere words on a piece of paper what makes you think they will stop there. Maybe if you just keep quiet.
          • kilofox, on 12/30/2007, -7/+1Do me a favor... graduate from college, get a job, and learn how to spell while you're at it ... and then get a life. Then we'll talk.

            By the way..... it's nightstick dip-*****.
          • momomathew, on 12/31/2007, -2/+0knight stick, that is so funny
        • NationalistROC, on 12/30/2007, -3/+6Yes, because that stuff was so much more horrible than what the Japs were doing? Stop looking in your American textbooks and actually see what the Japs were doing, and how you cannot compare that evil with the US. Wow, executing POWs at least theyre soldiers, not massmurdering civilians.
          • gwolf, on 12/30/2007, -1/+6What have we been doing the last few years, Killing civilians and torturing and executing prisoners. You want to use some kind of a measuring stick to compare atrocities; that's a real bad sign where we are headed. We won't know the extent of what's been done in our name for years.
        • kilofox, on 12/30/2007, -1/+6ROC... American textbooks do not coverup or try to deny the atrocities that the Japanese Army committed in China.
        • DubYaSee, on 12/31/2007, -0/+2"American textbooks do not coverup or try to deny the atrocities that the Japanese Army committed in China."
          ...nah...they just ignore atrocities committed by Americans. It is easy to point fingers at others, but own up to your own barbarism? ...nah.
        • yodaj007, on 12/31/2007, -0/+1History is always written by the victor.
      • DubYaSee, on 12/31/2007, -0/+3...and just in cast that you want an example of American atrocities...try on the American and British combined fire bombing of Dresden. Or Sherman's "March to the Sea" through Georgia in the Civil war. Americans have a talent for the unspeakable just as much as the next.
        • TIMMYGOAT, on 12/31/2007, -1/+1Dresden...what do you know about it ? You should read " I Shall Bear Witness" The diaries of Victor Klemperer. He was a jew who was in a boxcar on his way to the death camps when Dresden was bombed. In the morning he emerged from the ashes to find all the guards had gone. Because of this he and his wife where able to simply walk away into the country side and survive the war.
          • Terr01, on 12/31/2007, -0/+1Usually, an atrocity is not just killing, but indescriminate killing.

            If we save 1,000 prisoners from the death camps is that a good thing when it also involves the avoidable crisping of over 35,000 civilians?
    • UltraPenguinX, on 12/30/2007, -5/+15That's a reasonable response...
    • scott2007, on 12/30/2007, -6/+17Uh, no, you're obviously not crazy....

      • Zapkiller, on 12/30/2007, -23/+3***** America.
        • LokitheComplex, on 12/30/2007, -1/+4What all of it?
          • Tippis, on 12/30/2007, -1/+6Yes, but think of all the calories you'll burn.
          • yodaj007, on 12/31/2007, -1/+1In other news, Biofilm's stock soared 500% when Astroglide sales outstripped production capacity.
    • unreg, on 12/30/2007, -56/+15Go ***** yourself.

      Comparing the United States to Germany in the 30's shows a total lack of understanding of history.
      • bjornski, on 12/30/2007, -8/+44Actually, denying it shows a lack of understanding history also.

        There are many parallels. Don't discount them all because a few things about it are different.
        • unreg, on 12/30/2007, -25/+7Denying and not finding any truth to the stupidity are two different things.

          Do I think the quality of our nation has diminished in the past decade? Yes.

          Do I think the nation is following the path of Nazi Germany? Hardly.

        • yodaj007, on 12/31/2007, -0/+4History has a way of repeating itself. Often. And when you least expect it.
      • brstilson, on 12/30/2007, -6/+41Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

        In other words, covering your ears and going "LA LA LA LA IM NOT LISTENING LA LA LA LA AMERICA CAN'T EVER BE LIKE NAZI GERMANY LA LA LA LA LA" doesn't mean that this country can never fall to fascism.
      • jsmu, on 12/30/2007, -11/+3Go get a radical chain saw lobotomy; they obviously didn't quite finish the job on you.
      • NationalistROC, on 12/30/2007, -14/+4I see some differences, but some similarities as well. But overall, i think Americans are being paranoid, Fascism? Come on, your own granddad's fought it. So i agree with unreg except for the ***** yourself and total lack of understanding
        • fnaqzna, on 12/31/2007, -4/+2Not sure why you're being dugg down. Over the past six years, we have become a nation of candy asses. Trembling in fear at the mere thought of what a country with a GDP comparable to the state of Connecticut can do to us possibly sometime in five to ten years.
      • Erich100, on 02/03/2008, -0/+1The techniques have changed a bit, but the result is the same.
    • ProfessorRamrod, on 12/30/2007, -11/+11dugg for the truth, best response ever
    • Roger_Ramjet, on 12/30/2007, -23/+3F You? What a compelling arguement? BURYING
    • GOVStooge, on 12/30/2007, -2/+22Why everyone insists on placing the blame on Bush boggles my mind. There is a very long list of politicians from both the Republican AND Democratic side of the aisle.
    • Arkons24, on 12/30/2007, -15/+2you are crazy for thinking this is true. Not only you are crazy but you are a) stupid b) gullible c) uninformed d) ignorant e) borderline retarded
      • yodaj007, on 12/31/2007, -1/+1Your skills at conversation are lacking, my padawan. Try making points to refute his claims instead of just calling him a dumb poopy-head. Such things might work on the playground, but not here.
        • Arkons24, on 01/01/2008, -0/+1Ummm ... he didn't make any claims. He just told everyone who thinks he is crazy to ***** off. Are you a ***** retard?
    • odigity, on 12/30/2007, -1/+6I sympathize with your frustration Evermin7, but saying '***** YOU' isn't a good way of encouraging positive change.
    • TIMMYGOAT, on 12/31/2007, -3/+1no..F*CK YOU. you paranoid moron.
    • Bushlied, on 12/31/2007, -1/+3Not to bright are we?
  • PSWTyrant, on 12/30/2007, -11/+95It's clearly in progress in my opinion.
    • Zapkiller, on 12/30/2007, -24/+3Of course it is, now destroy Amerca.
    • mranderson86, on 12/31/2007, -1/+1LOL Inaccurate again! So many popping up....such a problem on digg
  • avengingturnip, on 12/30/2007, -63/+12I, for one, embrace our new overlords.
    • jbird71, on 12/30/2007, -4/+14Why does no one on Digg get sarcasm?
      • fnaqzna, on 12/31/2007, -2/+2It's too complex.
        • avengingturnip, on 12/31/2007, -1/+1Unbelievable. I saw -47 diggs and had to laugh. Do I actually have to say that if I were really in favor of fascism in America I would be denying it is coming and calling everyone moonbat conspiracy theorists.
          • Pssdoff, on 12/31/2007, -1/+2lol, you are exactly right so I dugg you. Maybe next time include an adjective before 'overlords'
            "I for one, welcome our new INGSOC overlords. The leader is doubleplus good! HAIL ANTS!"
    • Marijuana, on 12/31/2007, -0/+2Sarcasm doesn't translate well on the net.
  • jmpeagle, on 12/30/2007, -26/+70WTF is this article going on about? Democracy is probably the number one reason for this. Hitler was the result of democracy. Democracy is simply majority rule, which leads to the suppression of those who think and act differently than the majority or some other large powerful ineterest group.

    All democracies will inevitably lead to the loss of rights. This is true not only of democracies but of all governments. It's human nature. Even pure anarchy would inevitably lead to a strongman tyrant localized at a tribal level but eventually wars will lead to power consolidation and the formation of governments.

    Some good material covering this is a book by Mancur Olson's "The Rise and Decline of Nations". The idea is that small distributional coalitions tend to form over time in countries. Groups like cotton-farmers, steel-producers, and labor unions will have the incentives to form political lobbies and influence policies in their favor. These policies will tend to be protectionist and anti-technology, and will therefore hurt economic growth; but since the benefits of these policies are selective incentives concentrated amongst the few coalitions members, while the costs are diffused throughout the whole population, the "Logic" dictates that there will be little public resistance to them. Hence as time goes on, and these distributional coalitions accumulate in greater and greater numbers, the nation burdened by them will fall into economic decline.
    • Rotzooi, on 12/30/2007, -15/+23"Democracy is simply majority rule, which leads to the suppression of those who think and act differently than the majority"

      That's how it's panning out in the U.S. A true democracy is all about respecting the views and opinions of the *minorities*.
      • thcobbs, on 12/30/2007, -5/+18apparently you missed the whole part of the one with the most votes wins.
        • Spuy767, on 12/30/2007, -11/+5Apparently you missed that bit about the electoral college.
          • Urusai, on 12/30/2007, -1/+20Apparently you missed the bit where America is a republic and not a democracy.
          • booshack, on 12/30/2007, -5/+1Appararently you, Urusai, missed the bit where America is the form of nation-state called a republic with the form of government called democracy.
          • fnaqzna, on 12/31/2007, -1/+1The electoral college is really relevant to the discussion. The fact that the U.S. Constitution protects the rights of minorities again and again from majority oppression is what's truly important.
          • fnaqzna, on 12/31/2007, -1/+1Doh... I meant irrelevant.
      • edmcguirk, on 12/30/2007, -1/+20I think you mean a true utopia is all about respecting the views of the minorities.

        There's nothing in the definition of a democracy about respect for the minority viewpoint.

        The USA was specifically built to protect the minority viewpoint, to prevent "mob rule" typical of an unrestrained democracy, but that seems to be eroding a bit lately.
      • Waiting2awake, on 12/30/2007, -2/+9With all due respect what both of you negitive nellies miss - and it is probably due to you being American - but here it is....

        There are never only two sides to the opinion - and thus there is never - EVER - so much of a majority that any one side can run roughshot over the others, because the others will unite and beat the majority....

        That is just another reason why the two party system is really where most of Americans problems lay.
        • Crusader1145, on 12/30/2007, -5/+3There's certainly pluses and minuses to the American 2 party system but overall it works pretty well. The parliamentary systems in Europe and other countries with many parties have their share of problems and tend to have more unstable governments because they have to rely on coalitions of smaller parties to rule. Look at Italy. How many governments have they had since WWII? The parliamentary system also promotes single issue voting and can lead to extremists having more power than their actual numbers in the electorate. In some European countries today you see small parties with links to fascist or neo-fascist groups getting elected. I don't think that's a good thing. The parliamentary system isn't all its cracked up to be.
        • Waiting2awake, on 12/30/2007, -2/+9Crusader - there are no doubt problems with both sides, but one with many parties by its nature doesn't allow the oligarchy that America seems to be in.

          With terms to stability - true American politics's seemed to be more stable than Italy's or many other countries with multiple parties.. but it isn't more stable than say China's, or North Korea's (In terms of stability - which is separate from "good for the people") which would tend to say the more tightly controlled something is - the more stable it is.

          The question is - do you like who is controlling you? If not - can you do anything about it? If the answer to that question is no - then you my friend are not in a free country regardless what your "leaders" are telling you.
    • kfed2, on 12/30/2007, -2/+30That's why we are sup posed to be a CONSTITUTIONAL democracy.

      The Constitution is there to limit the powers of the Democracy - to that majority rule does not trump individual rights.
      • chaosium, on 12/30/2007, -15/+6It's a shame that Ron Paul fails to see this so spectacularly in his Constitutional Literalism.
        • kazamx, on 12/30/2007, -3/+8er....... this is what Ron Paul does support. Everyone has freedom as long as they remain within the constitution. Democracy within the constitution.
        • Corrosionx, on 12/30/2007, -1/+7He's the only one who realizes the smallest minority is the individual, so minority rights mean nothing without individual rights.
      • cswake, on 12/30/2007, -0/+11Incorrect. We are not a democracy, but rather a REPUBLIC that exhibits what you talk about.
        • kfed2, on 12/30/2007, -1/+1We would be better off if we were both a Republic and a Democracy. That system works great here in Washington State, and the 11 or so other states that allow the voters to override the legislature should the legislature screw up. It has served Switzerland (the only country to implement it) well too.
      • SouthsideIrish, on 12/30/2007, -1/+9REPUBLIC! We are supposed to live in a republic for godsakes.
    • kilofox, on 12/30/2007, -3/+32Democracy is 5 Foxes and 4 Hens voting on what's for dinner.
      • delafere, on 12/31/2007, -0/+3More like one fox and 500 hens voting on what's for dinner but the fox is counting the votes on a Diebold system. It's chicken, chicken, chicken....
    • nycmac247, on 12/30/2007, -7/+10@jmpeagle
      When is the last time your read the US Constitution? Part of the US system are the 3 branches and checks and balances. Please consider giving it a read before characterizing democracy as mob rule.
      • kazamx, on 12/30/2007, -4/+8Thats his point, thats the constitution that does that NOT democracy.
      • SouthsideIrish, on 12/30/2007, -4/+8Actually, there is a fourth branch, which includes the people, who could also interpret the law through jury nullification.
      • xerigen, on 12/30/2007, -0/+6The problem is that with things like the John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007, the 3 branches don't really matter anymore.
    • kleverness, on 12/30/2007, -5/+16Your going to be buried for saying bad things about democracy, which is something unquestionable for American people. The truth is that representative democracy is just a way to make people believe that they are making a choice, though all the candidates represents the same corporate interests.
      • taotehue, on 12/31/2007, -1/+2this wouldn't be the case if it weren't for the abuse of the 14th amendment. Corporate lawyers have twisted the meaning of that amendment to give corporations the rights of people. Instead of being held responsible to the social interests that they should represent they now hold priority to true people. A corporation is not a person and should not be treated as such.
    • Groovydoo, on 12/30/2007, -3/+9We are not a democracy, we are a Republic. (...And to the Republic for which it stands), In other words we vote politicians to do our thinking for us and to vote on legislation for us. History has shown that the 'wankers' we vote in are the ones that hand the keys to the republic to a dictator. A democracy would entail every citizen voting for legislation as envisioned by Thomas Jefferson. If we were a Democracy, despots like George Bush would have never been elected!
    • Crusader1145, on 12/30/2007, -3/+7"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
      - Sir Winston Churchill

      I'm going to go with Winston on this.
      • Corrosionx, on 12/30/2007, -1/+3"that have been tried." is the keyword here.

        We COULD try something else, but then we would face the wrath of the entrenched system that doesn't want people to try other things, like voluntarist anarcho-capitalism.
        • Crusader1145, on 12/31/2007, -0/+1I think we've pretty much tried everything from democracy to fascism to socialism to communism and just about everything in between. While I'm sympathetic to some of the principals of anarcho-capitalism I'm not sure that would be a viable system.
    • Corrosionx, on 12/30/2007, -1/+9The smallest minority is the individual. There can be no minority rights without individual rights.
      • carolinaroth, on 12/30/2007, -0/+4everyone in this country needs to wake up and remember this.
        • fnaqzna, on 12/31/2007, -0/+2The scary thing is someone dugg you down for saying this.
    • gypsie, on 12/30/2007, -0/+11Also don't forget that democracy can not work with hijacked media. People usually will make the right choices if they are provided with true facts and not propaganda. Hijacked media is just another sign of moving toward fascism. Making education expensive and therefor unavailable to the majority is another trick. Uneducated people are easier to manipulate than educated. They also try to make politics as dirty as possible so weaker people will turn away in discuss giving them free reign to do as they please. I grew up in communism and anybody who tried to dethrone the ruling class was labeled as "public enemy" or "enemy of state". What's the difference if we compare it to today's US. Anybody can be labeled "terrorist", stripped of his rights and be harassed and persecuted.
  • futureisours, on 12/30/2007, -76/+12Bunch of libtard idiots.
    • hiphoc, on 12/30/2007, -10/+28Ok Rush
    • Rotzooi, on 12/30/2007, -10/+34I love how that's the best the Bushies here can come up with. That, or some asinine comment that includes a mention of tin foil.
      • unreg, on 12/30/2007, -20/+8Your omitting the typical anti-bushie tact of comparing the current events in the United States to those of pre-war Germany.

        Are you all really that asinine?
      • Waiting2awake, on 12/30/2007, -4/+14Anti-Bush? Like starting illegal wars, spying on American citizens, torture and secret prisons aren't enough....

        Talk about assinine.
        • floorman56, on 12/30/2007, -7/+4BDS...You should get that looked at
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Derangement_Synd ...
        • Waiting2awake, on 12/30/2007, -4/+8Floorman...Here is something you desperately need to find...

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality

          Silly neo-con, you are a traitor to your own country.
          • floorman56, on 12/31/2007, -2/+1You should look at what treason really is before you call someone on it

            Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

            Somehow i don't see it that way ......welcome to my block list ...oh and get your BDS checked
    • jsmu, on 12/30/2007, -5/+6Repug fukktard flaming hemorrhoidal pustule. See, we even insult better. Bite it! LOL
    • BrentyD, on 12/30/2007, -0/+3liberals are the conservative party here in australia, so i have to agree with you
  • WTC7WasPulled, on 12/30/2007, -58/+259/11 was an inside job.
    • doctorfungi, on 12/30/2007, -20/+19Can we please stick to the real issues for once? Your theories were proven bunk over a year ago. There are plenty of real reasons to hate Bush. Stop leading the public on a wild goose chase with your irrational beliefs.
      • Groovemaster, on 12/30/2007, -20/+21Stop talking *****.

        9/11 is THE issue, and it's extremely well established that the official story is an embarrassingly obvious lie.
        • sesstreets, on 12/30/2007, -10/+18Really. Where does it prove that it was a lie?
          • Groovemaster, on 12/30/2007, -1/+3"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."
            -- H. L. Mencken
        • Napoleone, on 12/30/2007, -5/+17There is very real evidence that much of it was a lie.

          It's a matter of fact that at least seven of the alleged hijackers are still alive today. It's a matter of fact that the attacks were indeed foreseeable. It's a matter of fact that the money trail, which lead to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, was ignored. It's a matter of fact that the 9/11 Commission had members in key posts with serious conflicts of interests, such as the one member who was a writing buddy of Condoleezza Rice.

          It is a matter of fact that Sibel Edmonds was deemed a credible witness by the Congress after much her secret testimony was verified accurate, and that she was silenced by the Administration and the Justice Department through the use of the States Secrets privilege. And it's a matter of fact that she alleges high-level treason in regards to the events of 9/11.

          So, although we don't know the truth, we do know we've been lied to. Or at least those of us who are actually interested in the truth know this.
          • floorman56, on 12/30/2007, -5/+7he BBC and the Daily Telegraph reported on September 23 that some of the people named as the hijackers by the FBI were actually "alive and well".[134][135] One of them was Waleed al-Shehri, who they said they had found in Casablanca, Morocco. Abdulaziz Al Omari, Saeed Alghamdi, and Khalid al-Midhar, three other hijackers, were all said to be living in the Middle East. On September 19, the FDIC even distributed a "special alert" which listed al-Mihdhar as alive (the Justice Department later said this was a typographical error). These reports have led to claims that the names of the hijackers may be incorrect, or that the hijacking scenarios outlined in the 9/11 Commission Report may not be the truth.

            All of the reports have since been acknowledged as cases of mistaken identity by the publications involved and by other news organisations such as the New York Times.[136][137][138] The BBC said that confusion may have arisen because the FBI names were common Arabic and Islamic names.[139] In 2002, Saudi Arabia asserted that the names of the hijackers were correct.[140]
          • Napoleone, on 12/30/2007, -2/+4@floorman

            It's one thing to have the same names, it's another to have the same faces.
        • momomathew, on 12/31/2007, -3/+1@Groovemaster and the other 9/11 troofer idiots. And I use idiot as a compliment.
          There are no secrets in Washington, this has been proven over and over. How many people do you think would be involved in the planning and execution of the WTC attack? How many emails, phone calls, meetings were needed? You are telling me that NOT ONE PERSON has come forward, no documentation has been leaked? You all need to come out your dorm rooms, parents basements, stop watching South Park marathons and come out see what the weather is once and awhile. You and all of your friends should save your lunch money or ask your neighbors to rake their leaves for $10 and offer a reward for someone to come forward with credible information!
      • jsmu, on 12/30/2007, -2/+5'irrational'? What planet do YOU live on?
    • Herkimer56, on 12/30/2007, -13/+12Proof? Or is it asking too much for you to back up that insane assertion?
    • Napoleone, on 12/30/2007, -7/+14That's a bold assertion with no smoking gun to back it up. Also, to say it was an inside job still leaves open the question of exactly who it was that was on the inside.

      That said, we haven't been given real answers to what happened on that day, and why it happened; and that itself is quite easy to prove. It's also easy to prove that the Commission's work was faulty and compromised by members with conflicts of interest. It's also easy to prove that the president obstructed the formation of a commission by over 500 days, and that he refused to testify under oath, alone, or on the record.

      It is the testimony of Sibel Edmonds that there was indeed government complicity in the attacks, but being that the government has silenced her with the threat of prison (let us not forget what our torture prisons have become), the truth will remain hidden until she is heard.
      • ghamal, on 12/30/2007, -1/+6doesn't the fact that they are silencing Edmunds imply there are elements in the government that might be guilty of treason?
        • Napoleone, on 12/30/2007, -0/+3Doesn't need to be implied, she's already said as much. The government won't allow her to name names, though.
      • grinchdec23, on 12/30/2007, -2/+3Umm..Exactly,, what you are saying IS a smoking gun,, hilarious logic you have.
        • Napoleone, on 12/30/2007, -0/+3She has the potential to be the smoking gun, but until she gets to tell us what she knows we'll never know for sure. But you're free to assume the details of what it is she has to say. It definitely involves high-level treason, we know that much.
  • DeepFriedFetus, on 12/30/2007, -23/+3http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/CONTACT_ALL_MSM_ ...
  • ithejosh, on 12/30/2007, -9/+34I thought this was obvious.
    • terroristusgov, on 12/30/2007, -2/+4True, unless you're a sheeple that watches the mainstream media misinformation for your perception of reality.
    • britoca, on 12/31/2007, -0/+1From the very first day, when the supreme court picked the US president in 2000
    • shortlink, on 01/01/2008, -0/+0Oh come on, get over it. Liberals are such cry babies. You also don’t understand the basic principles of law, government or how the Internet works, but you seem to be wiling to make extreme inaccurate statements (like the NTY) only to press an agenda. I guess that’s why they call it propaganda. There is always risk in collecting information on FORIGEN sources. If you know how the Internet works you know you can’t go to the non-American routers to capture foreign data. There is no violation of law, or constitution. You should read the Congressional reports on Intelligence to get the real story, because what you’re liberal representatives say in public and what they do in private are different.
  • ufia, on 12/30/2007, -36/+11Ron Paul vould not let tiz happen!
  • mkriss5681, on 12/30/2007, -28/+18Am I the only one who fells that people throw around the Nazi comparison too lightly. We are hardly as bad as Nazi Germany. Sure things have really gone down hill since Sept 11th but I have some hope with the new elections coming up.
    • mortbort, on 12/30/2007, -6/+21Wait until the next great depression comes. When people are desperate and poor nasty things can happen rather quickly. The foundation for this is being built.
      • mkriss5681, on 12/30/2007, -4/+7That's true. The reason Germany was so screwed up is because of the war debt from WWI. Thankfully the US isn't as bad as Germany was pre-WWI but if we did I could see some of these comparisons.
    • Napoleone, on 12/30/2007, -3/+13Lightly why? Do you realize how close America has come in the past to that form of extreme fascism? Up until WWII, Eugenics was a very strong trend here in the U.S. In fact, it still is. Planned Parenthood is the work of a group who believed minorities should be encouraged to abort their unborn children. They've had much success.

      These upcoming elections will mean nothing at all if neither Kucinich or Paul get elected. The system is absolutely corrupted, and all the other candidates embrace that system as it is.
      • MrSteamTank, on 12/30/2007, -4/+5Please don't turn this into an anti-abortion issue. Remember that the alternative to abortion is having millions of unwanted children running around being poorly raised. I damn hell sure don't want that.
        • Napoleone, on 12/30/2007, -4/+7A similar argument was used against the abolition of slavery.

          "Remember that the alternative to slavery is having millions of talentless negroes running around raping our women and children. I damn hell sure don't want that."
          • MrSteamTank, on 12/30/2007, -2/+3Wait let me help you with making it worse.

            "Remember that the alternative to gassing is having jews running around stealing our jobs and ruining our economy. I damn hell sure don't want that."

            No point arguing since you already consider abortion equal to slavery and murder. My only problem with though is that anti-abortionists try to force their views on the rest of society.
          • ghamal, on 12/30/2007, -1/+4I feel sick when I hear about late term abortions. But It doesn't upset me if the abortion is of an undeveloped fetus. Why does it have to be all or nothing?
          • Napoleone, on 12/30/2007, -1/+1@MrSteam

            Again, it was argued that abolitionists tried to "force their views" on slave owners. But the truth is, this issue is not about social constructs, it's about life and death.
          • MrSteamTank, on 12/31/2007, -1/+1It all depends on when you consider something to be "alive". Potentially sperm and all eggs could become "alive" but most of society doesn't consider that to be alive. At what point does society consider a fetus to be "alive" is the main question.

            I'm not saying that abortion is always the right course as preferably it should only be used in very early fetus development and only as a last resort. I, personally, am completely against abortions which are decided by those under 18. People under 18 are not adults and the parents should get involved at that point. However, if a consenting adult over the age of 18 is in an early pregnancy she should have the option of abortion.

            Naturally we will not agree on many of these points Napoleone but you are debating this well so I'll just leave it at that.




    • kazamx, on 12/30/2007, -2/+8Well so far since September 11th America has managed to kill around 1 MILLION innocent people either directly or indirectly. It is true that America is killing the innocent much slower than Germany did, but there doesn't seem to be much chance of the US stopping anytime soon.

      Afghanistan - Iraq - Iran? Pakistan? Its perpetual war. I am sure that you can beat Nazi Germanys record in time. GWB seems to feel its a challenge he wants to beat it.
      • Jlaugh, on 01/02/2008, -0/+1We'll something like 130 Million people died in WW2, in the last 50 years the US has only killed 6 million.
    • 666dorado, on 12/30/2007, -1/+6corporate controlled media, hackable electronic voting machines with no paper trail, voter suppression...i have no hope with the new elections coming up.
    • Izult, on 12/30/2007, -1/+1do yourself a favor and go enroll in a comprehensive history class that covers the world pre WWI and WWII. Actually let's go back as far as 1215 England. Test on Friday.
  • bitterman316, on 12/30/2007, -11/+3Do my scheisse!
  • solid12345, on 12/30/2007, -29/+14I'm more afraid of liberals with their head in the sand about the entire Southwestern United States turning into a 3rd world country where everyone speaks Spanish instead of English. Isn't there anything about the fall of a nation due to loss of cultural identity in your little books and articles you like to post?
    • tehxen3, on 12/30/2007, -9/+19I'm afraid of both lunatic socialist liberals and racist-socialist republicans. As far as I'm concerned mexicans are just people looking for a better life. US is the most multicultural country on the planet, and there are many peaceful prosperous countries like Switzerland and others in Europe who have no problem with coexisting. It's only intolerant people like you that make problems out of it.
      • terrordome, on 12/30/2007, -3/+3What the hell is a "socialist liberal"? Liberalism is a capitalist ideology, socialism is an anti-capitalist ideology. Neither the democrats nor the republicans are socialist. They are liberal, conservative or a mix of both.

        Healthcare reforms are only an attempt to repair some of capitalism's contradictions.

        You should read up on socialism some, champ.

        Other than that I don't necessarily disagree with you.
      • Crusader1145, on 12/30/2007, -1/+4I agree that Mexicans coming here illegally are just looking for a better life. I can understand that, Mexico is a pretty messed up place. But, that does not entitle them, or anyone else, to come here illegally.
      • brycelb, on 12/30/2007, -2/+3The ironic thing to all of this is the influx of ILLEGAL Mexicans has been a bigger burden to the Black community than the White. A quick look at the demographic make up of los angeles will tell you that. LA has only 1 majority black high school left. Is this not a RED FLAG. I guess the whole multi cultural benefits go out the window when the entire city of Los Angeles is the second largest Mexican city in the world. Most of you idiots don't live in Southern California so you have no idea how horrific this problem has become.

        The Racism comments are funny though. Ignorant, but funny.
    • Baroja1898, on 12/30/2007, -6/+9Ah, yes, the real threat here is that we might lose our white, cultural identity.
      • fegul, on 12/30/2007, -4/+6Exactly. I chuckle a little when people claim America is a "melting pot" If whites became a minority in America, would they consider that to be the fall? there's a point where America could become "too" diverse and that is what most whites are afraid of. Most whites are afraid of becoming the minority yet they tell other minorities that we're all equal and that there is no difference between being white or being a minority.

        If there's no difference, then why do so many whites become inflamed at issues like immigration and such if they don't have anything to lose? The fall of America is directly attached to the fall of "Whiteness"
        • solid12345, on 12/30/2007, -5/+7It is not about racism, it is about culture and double standard. Mexico would NOT accept 20 million Americans jumping over to their border and setting up shop, so why should we? Because of 1st world guilt we have to subsidize the poor of another nation?
          • terrordome, on 12/30/2007, -2/+4The third world is probably the richest of all "worlds" in resources, yet they are the poorest nations on the planet. The first world is certainly guilty of something.
    • kfed2, on 12/30/2007, -8/+4If illegal (or legal) immigration bankrupts our social programs, then I have 1 thing to say to our newcomers - "Thank you very much!"
      • strictlybogart, on 12/30/2007, -3/+5or maybe it's time to move away from the "welfare state."
    • daxsymbiont, on 12/30/2007, -3/+7and English is the official language since when?
    • edmcguirk, on 12/30/2007, -4/+6I am really not at all worried about spanish speaking immigrants. There is no way they are going to "take over" our culture. The culture follows the money and the spanish speaking culture will never control significant money in the USA. Most third generation immigrants do not speak their original language unless they live in a ghetto where nobody speaks english.

      I do worry about ghettos. They promote poverty and crime. But it is racism that promotes ghettos. It promotes arabic ghettos in europe, black ghettos in USA and soon spanish ghettos in USA too.

      The problem is not immigration, the problem is racism.
      • Michael9636, on 08/04/2008, -4/+2Exactly. Well said. White is good. Everything else, not so much. Racism is at the very core of all the recent immigration phobia. The day is rapidly coming when whites will be a minority in the USA. I will not live to see it. You will.
        • grinchdec23, on 12/30/2007, -0/+2Racism has nothing to do with phobia,, its a naturally occuring condition that is already manifested... are you saying racists dont immigrate ???
    • nycmac247, on 12/30/2007, -4/+6This is all well and good until you go to a hospital in the southern US and see it over run with non-US citizens that have no money?
      If you think an open door border policy should exist then should he US and Mexico be merged?
    • Napoleone, on 12/30/2007, -5/+5The U.S. has never in its history had a single cultural identity. Also, isn't it a third world country what we have in much of the former Confederate South? Neglect of the States is as American as Apple Pie.
      • Crusader1145, on 12/30/2007, -2/+5"The U.S. has never in its history had a single cultural identity." That's not really true. The US, culturally, is based on European culture and values. (And I would also include Mexico and Canada as well.) While the US has many ethnic groups with different practices, the vast majority come from a European cultural background.
        • Napoleone, on 12/30/2007, -2/+2You say European as though Europe itself had a single culture. And that's just not the case. France, Italy, Germany, Spain, the UK... they're all quite distinct.
          • Crusader1145, on 12/31/2007, -0/+2Yes, they are distinct in some respects but at base they share the same values and traditions i.e. culture going back to the Greeks and Romans. There are local customs and practices which differ from place to place but that doesn't make them culturally distinct at a fundamental level. Not like the differences between say Chinese culture and European culture.
      • solid12345, on 12/30/2007, -2/+7America has a blended cultural identity. Most Mexican immigrants refuse to join this culture and keep their own. They watch their own TV stations, read their own newspapers, listen to their own music and refuse to integrate into society. If you do not want to be American then go home.
    • solid12345, on 12/30/2007, -3/+6How many of you even are experiencing this first-hand?

      I live in Tulsa, Oklahoma and the entire eastern side of the city has turned into little Mexico. All the store shops are in spanish, crime rate has gone through the roof, property values have declined.

      If Mexicans want to come over here and learn English and assimilate, that is fine. But they should not be setting up border towns in the heart of America and carving out their own state-within-a-state.

      If 10 million Americans suddenly snuck into France and set up tents and started drinking beer and singing yankee doodle dandy you'd know damn well we'd be sent back.
      • brycelb, on 12/30/2007, -0/+4It's hard to explain this to 12yr. olds from the upper north east. I live in Southern CA and the PROBLEM has only been getting worse over the last decade. The mere fact that any city in Oklahoma has become as bad as it is here is depressing. Here in CA it is expected because our entire state is over run by ultra left wing liberals. The socialists have been ruining this state for a long time.
        • Jlaugh, on 01/02/2008, -0/+1Yeah dammit that Reagan guy was such a hard core socialist.
    • Ekdog, on 12/30/2007, -4/+4Solid12345, tú eres un pinche cabrón y un racista. ¡Qué asco me das! (No hablo inglés.)
      • solid12345, on 12/30/2007, -4/+7Thank god you illegals have Spanish to fall back on, how else could you give a blank stare when someone asks you for your insurance information after you ram your el camino into the back of someone's truck?
        • Ekdog, on 12/30/2007, -1/+1Insurance? We don't need no stinkin' insurance.
    • jsmu, on 12/30/2007, -4/+4oh and god (JUDEO-CHRISTIAN god, thank you VERY MUCH) forbid any racial or ethnic diversity in AmeriKKKa!
    • sinnuendo, on 12/30/2007, -1/+1Ok, Lou Dobbs. You're a ***** idiot.
  • scott2007, on 12/30/2007, -25/+8All of these leftist radicals with their hyperbole, paranoia and disinformation paralyze the center-left from making positive change in the United States. They make all liberals into a powerless laughing stock. United you stand; divided you fall.

    The two political extremes cannot exist without each other. They're actually all on the same side. It was Nader voters in 2000 which screwed up Florida enough for Gore to lose and Bush to win.

    Our enemy is very cunning.
    • unreg, on 12/30/2007, -11/+7Without Bush the liberals would have nobody to blame for their failings.
      • tubeblender, on 12/31/2007, -0/+1Partially true. This is why we need someone a bit more independent to shake things up a bit, and bring us back to a more pure interpretation of the Constitution. I don't even have to state his name.
    • FTLJohnson, on 12/30/2007, -2/+4Exactly, imagine if Nader had won - over these incumbent party retards... More people need to vote 3rd party and independent so that this duopolistic system can be deconstructed down into something with 3,4 maybe even 5 or 6 real, actual contending parties for president. Something that offers an actual CHOICE.
      (NOTE: I think Nader is awful as well and voted for Badnarik in that election, hell I'd have even preferred David Cobb - but the fact that Nader was a third party and had equivalent views makes him > Gore. )
    • nycmac247, on 12/30/2007, -1/+3You might want to google "Black Box Voting" - Nader had very little to do with it.
      ...and...btw... compared to _every other industrialized country_ we have no "left;" give me a break!
      • FTLJohnson, on 12/30/2007, -4/+1or you could google "Katherine Harris is a stupid *****" That would probably work too...
      • scott2007, on 12/30/2007, -0/+1Do you even know what percentage of the voters left Gore for Nader? "Very little"?
    • jsmu, on 12/30/2007, -2/+2Actually, no, it was felony voter fraud, and a host of other high crimes and misdemeanors, you MORON.
      Get the chain saw enema you so richly deserve!
      • gmlongo, on 12/30/2007, -2/+2Nice try.... The only fraud that was committed was by the Gore campaign.
      • scott2007, on 12/30/2007, -1/+1Psycho. This is exactly the kind of pussy I'm talking about.
  • MBX1, on 12/30/2007, -4/+111"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

    -- Herman Goering (Nuremburg Trials)
  • Zapkiller, on 12/30/2007, -23/+5America sucks, destroy it.
  • mrzack, on 12/30/2007, -21/+13American sheeps. Many still in Denial of the inevitable. If nothing bad happens then USA will not have learned any lessons. If bad things do happen, then USA will have learned a lesson.
    • bjornski, on 12/30/2007, -2/+1For about 20 years. Then it'll be back to the same old *****.
    • Napoleone, on 12/30/2007, -1/+6If nothing bad happens it will be because we've acted to prevent it. If we do nothing, it will be for future generations to learn from, because we ourselves will be too busy being oppressed to learn any lessons.
  • kfed2, on 12/30/2007, -16/+6What to do in the Event Ron Paul Louses - http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/What_to_do_in_th ...
    Asset forfeiture on the rise, US Government printing money at the speed of light, destroying the value of the US Dollar, almost 1 million on the terrorist watch list (and that's just list #1), and the Bill of Rights is George Bushes toilet paper. Here is 1 not so life altering way a guy made plans in advance to protect himself and family.
    • PayneX, on 12/30/2007, -1/+4Ron Paul is going to become a singular lice?
  • tehxen3, on 12/30/2007, -29/+12More alternet paranoia crap, buried. Seriously why cant you keep this ***** on alternet or infowars where it belongs?
    • Baroja1898, on 12/30/2007, -8/+9Seriously, why can't you stay on AM talk radio where YOU belong? Looks like you're being buried more than the article.
      • eexlebots, on 12/30/2007, -6/+4You mean crazy AM radio like Alex Jone's looney-of-the-day call-in show?
      • tubeblender, on 12/31/2007, -1/+0The bury brigade is out in full force on this one.
    • tubeblender, on 12/31/2007, -1/+1Go clean your gun.
  • kfed2, on 12/30/2007, -24/+11This is why we NEED RON PAUL. NOBODY will put a stop to this faster than him.
    • EarlOfLade, on 12/30/2007, -15/+3LOLLERCOP!

      If you want to turn USA into 50 third world countries, go ahead and vote for the comic book character from Texas... Please... the man is complete nutjob.
  • jerryterhorst, on 12/30/2007, -2/+28this article is right about most things, but there are some major differences that need to be pointed out. a majority of americans do not agree with bush's policies anymore. germans, in general, were "propagandized" into believing the jews and "lesser races" were the result of all of their problems. also, the united states has been a democracy for over 230 years--germany had had a tumultuous past ever since the uniting of the german tribes, had already fought one world war, and was under the effects of the horrible treaty of versailles.

    also, very important thing to remember: bush is going to be leaving office in 2008. NOTHING will change that. if by some crazy twist of fate he attempted to stay in office longer, im pretty sure every american would unite to remove him, forcibly if necessary.
    • nycmac247, on 12/30/2007, -0/+3What is Hillary = Margaret Thatcher?
      "Gotta be tough!"
      How is that different from Bush?
    • kilofox, on 12/30/2007, -2/+4Bush is leaving in 09... not 08.
    • campbellsoupkid, on 12/30/2007, -2/+6All it will take is another "national security crisis" for a Bush, or a Clinton, or a Giuliani to suggest temporarily suspending elections until the crisis has passed. Which BTW was _exactly_ what Giuliani suggested in New York City after 9/11. Look it up.
      Our founding fathers understood how fragile true liberty is, and how quickly and easily the pull of tyranny comes to those in power.
      • absurdist, on 12/30/2007, -0/+4That was exactly what Giuliani _suggested_ in NYC after 9/11. And you see how well that went for him. Attack or no attack, the people of NYC told him, in essence, no ***** way. If Bush tried to do the same thing I think you'd see him escorted from office by the military. Most of their leaders still understand their sworn oath was to uphold and defend the Constitution, not some petty tinhorn wannabe dictator with delusions of his own adequacy.
      • evilpoptart, on 12/30/2007, -0/+4who cares what giuliani said? he doesnt even have a shot.
    • Thundercat1971, on 12/30/2007, -0/+3sadly, agree or disagree, the result is the same. No large powerful group is willing to say "enough!"
      • tmccool, on 12/31/2007, -0/+1campbellsoupkid, that's a stupid thing to think will happen, precisely for the reason you stated. Giuliani tried to do that, but failed to do so.
  • TheSkinsFactory, on 12/30/2007, -7/+20I believe in Americans.

    So what does that mean? It means deep down I believe that we Americans are inherently a good & caring people. Yes, a large majority voted for Bush for a second term. People make mistakes, but i do not believe that when the chips are down - if the ***** hits the fan, that Americans will stand by in this day and age, and let the same atrocious things the Nazis did happen here. I also know that we are armed to the teeth and would fight back and start a new revolution, if our leaders become "too big for their britches" or if our fellow Americans were suffering under a truly fascist rule. So yes, i worry about the state of affairs under this administration, but I believe in us and our ability to overcome any obstacle put forth, foreign or domestic.
    • kfed2, on 12/30/2007, -9/+4They will attempt to disarm us first - they already have lists of the gun owners.
      • TheSkinsFactory, on 12/30/2007, -0/+5There are an estimated 193 million firearms in America according to the Brady Campaign (source: http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=ho ... . That's a lot of firearms in the hands of Americans. I really don't think it will ever come to that. I don't. I think the most powerful weapon we have is voting and in the end that's where the "checks and balances" lay. The neocons will most likely lose power in 2009 and hopefully the next administration will roll back the losses to our civil rights. That goes back to what I said about believing in the American people. I hope we never end up going through another "Civil War" here in America. Nothing disgusts me more than the thought of Americans killing Americans. Anybody killing anybody for that matter.
        • lilkristen02370, on 12/31/2007, -0/+1Do you really think we have real elections?
      • momomathew, on 12/31/2007, -2/+0I am confused by the "losses to our civil rights" comment. Can you explain what civil rights I have lost?
    • daxsymbiont, on 12/30/2007, -11/+7"i believe Americans are good" = extremist nationalism.

      it assumes others are "bad". no one is "bad" on birth. those are racist or at least extremist nationalist ideas.

      but extremist nationalism is easy in the US, being a military power. it's convenient. they can get away with it.
      • TheSkinsFactory, on 12/30/2007, -2/+6It's not extreme nationalism. I'm talking about in our hearts, we're a good people overall. Its evident in times of crisis. I live in Florida also known as hurricane alley and I see how people help one another in times of crisis. You forget the topic is about America becoming like the nazis, not the world, so my comment is relevant and on-topic. So don't distort my words. At no point did i say Americans were the only good people in the world.
        • TheSkinsFactory, on 12/30/2007, -3/+5And I'm not "extreme" anything, just voicing my opinion for whatever it's worth.
          That's the whole reason for Digg, unless I'm mistaken. Well that's not entirely true, i "extremely love my wife" :-)
      • slicerace, on 12/30/2007, -0/+4This is kind of an idiotic way to reason. Americans good implies everyone else is bad? That means that if one group of people is good, it directly implies that every other group is bad? What if I chose my group of people to be a single person? Under your logic, that would mean that if my single person is a good person, then every other person is bad.

        Your faulty logic is what led you to the conclusion that his comments were "extreme nationalism" -- what if he had just said the he believes that people are inherently good, in general? He's just stating a fact -- he's not blindly ignoring evidence to support his own country. Go back to logic class.
    • 666dorado, on 12/30/2007, -7/+3i believe we Americans are inherently a selfish people looking out only for ourselves. it's why we have locks on our doors and bitch about taxes. the natural product of a capitalist driven culture and economy where all we think about is how to gain advantage in this rat race to amass personal wealth to pay for ***** we don't need.
      • TheSkinsFactory, on 12/30/2007, -0/+4How do you equate locks on your doors and not wanting to pay taxes as being selfish? Yes, we're capitalists, but when the chips down, we rise up and achieve greatness. Take for example the Tsunami crisis a few years back, Americans donated a ton of money, myself included, to the Red Cross, Doctors without Borders, etc.
        • 666dorado, on 12/30/2007, -2/+0locks on our doors and BITCHING about taxes, means we are paranoid and concern ourselves only with our money and possessions. a few generous people like yourself donated money, but u.s. 'aid' is nothing more than government subsidies to american corporations, namely the defense industry.

          if you want to see how generous american's compared to the rest of the world, look here:

          http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAi ...

      • carolinaroth, on 12/30/2007, -1/+2we are not capitalists. We have a corporatist, or mercantilist system. True capitalism is considerably different than we have now. Our government is basically designed in such a way that the mega rich are able to act in their own short term interest. The government stifles competition, and subsidizes programs that totally ***** with the economy.

        As long as we have a strong central government, then those who want power will be able to easily grab power. that is why decentralized government is better. Bitching about taxes is a good thing. We should be letting private charities provide care for those who need it, or if a state wants to, let individual states do what they feel they need.
      • Moonrider, on 12/31/2007, -0/+2Americans as INDIVIDUALS donated more money to the Tsunami victims than the government of any nation, including our own. It is completely unconstitutional for our government to take our money from us in taxes and then give it to someone/something else, whether the cause is domestic or foreign, and even when those who are on the receiving end are deserving of aid. Rather, it is supposed to be up to each of us as individuals to give charitably to those causes we support philosophically. Americans as individuals are generous, as private donations to the Tsunami vicitims (just one example) attests.
    • TheSkinsFactory, on 12/30/2007, -0/+3I severely typo'd my comment. I meant to say that Americans would not stand by and let this happen in this day and age.
    • Tias, on 12/30/2007, -0/+4Dugg for your optimism! :-)
    • wildgift, on 12/30/2007, -3/+1You're a starry eyed optimist. Let me guess... you're a white male.
      • TheSkinsFactory, on 12/31/2007, -0/+2What gave it away? My picture next to my comment?
    • taotehue, on 12/31/2007, -0/+3a "large majority" didn't vote for Bush in the second term. It was an incredibly close election that many say was fudged in Ohio.
  • BluesFan, on 12/30/2007, -1/+20I think most people can see it coming but how do we stop it?
  • dtaylor379, on 12/30/2007, -20/+12Get a life... Primary activities start next week. George will be out in one year. You people are mindless. For god sake move on...
    • daxsymbiont, on 12/30/2007, -2/+8"move on, nothing happened between 01-07".
    • kazamx, on 12/30/2007, -1/+8But what happens when the new guy just carries on the same policies as Bush did?
    • fullphaser, on 12/30/2007, -1/+10You assume Bush is the problem, you are incorrect, Bush is a figurehead, much like it was Hitler's cabinet and politicians who made most of the policies that dictated that country. To pin all of Nazi Germany's problems on its leader is simply idiocy, and the same issue exist here it is those cabinet members and sub politicians who ultimately you have to worry about carrying forward as they are the ones who keep getting reelected.
    • jeffs111, on 12/30/2007, -0/+4The Congress, Executive Branch, AND the Judiciary are responsible for the growing tyranny of the government. It was Congress that passed the unconstitutional acts such as the PATRIOT Act and the Military Commissions Act of 2006. To blame all of this mess on Bush alone, and to deny that the majority of incumbant Democrats and Republicans approved by the elite are is active opposition to this fascism is naive and wrong. Electing Hillary or Obama or Edwards is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Americans need to wake up. Ron Paul is the only Presidental candidate in 2008 who is speaking out forcefully about these abuses. Please Google "Ron Paul 2008" and donate to Ron Paul 2008 now!
  • daxsymbiont, on 12/30/2007, -7/+189/11 was the best thing that happened to American Right wing Extremists lately. An opportunity to spread their ideas of hate and destruction of everything that is unfamiliar. Everything that wasn't 'with them' was 'against them'. The fear of the American population for something that kills less multiple times less than road accidents was huge.
    • TIMMYGOAT, on 12/31/2007, -1/+0Show me one road accident that killed 3000 people ? If they are willing to fly planes into our buildings then they might just be willing to nuke us if they can. And that would be many times more than any road accident. So at some level we must take precaution and or action to prevent this.
      • Jlaugh, on 01/02/2008, -0/+1There's nothing that will stop anyone from nuking us if there so inclined and able, except fear of retaliation. I'm more afraid of American drivers than I am of terrorists.
  • raftytaffy, on 12/30/2007, -30/+6You don't like it in America? Get the ***** out. Simple as that.
    • engwar, on 12/30/2007, -1/+19That's a foolish statement.
      If you don't like what's happening in America you should work to change it, not leave.
    • jsmu, on 12/30/2007, -2/+12No, you cretinous criminal fascist, YOU GET THE ***** OUT!
      • britoca, on 12/31/2007, -4/+2no u moron, first u vote. If enough people agree with u, u make a change. If u fail, then only then must u reassess your conditions and then perhaps leave.
    • EarlOfLade, on 12/30/2007, -0/+12Hey surrendermonkey! What's up with all this running crap always coming from rightwingers? Is that what you people do when you don't like things? Run with the tail between your legs? I personally prefer to stay and fight for what I believe in, not that I expect you to understand such ideas but.
    • Travelsonic, on 12/30/2007, -0/+6A line unfortunately used to demonized legitimate patriotic dissent, and opinions differing from others.

      Buy a new line.
    • bwdigg, on 12/31/2007, -0/+4You don't like what America is supposed to stand for? Then *YOU* GTFO. Simple as that.

      In case you got all of your civics education from listening to Rush Limbaugh: America is about freedoms: speech, press, thought, assembly. Take your fascist beliefs somewhere else, please.
      • Travelsonic, on 12/31/2007, -0/+1I think Jack Nickolson had the perfect quote for the guy you replied to, "Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here"
  • jghyde, on 12/30/2007, -23/+4History will be good to George W Bush. The malcontents on alternet will all be long dead when the history books are written on this administration. And America will have survived because the malcontents will maintain their right to post intellectually dishonest material on the Internet as the rest of us have the right to call them all kooks (and ignore or laugh at their blithering diatribes).

    • daxsymbiont, on 12/30/2007, -0/+11history is now. it's not good to him.
    • nycmac247, on 12/30/2007, -1/+3@jghyde
      Wow - I bet you got a big ***** and cut yourself to make sure demons don't get bottled up inside and make you keep watching that bareback gay porn that your wife may find...

      or... how about this... (please think about it)

      1) All Empires fall.
      2) Why not mind our own ***** business and live, prosper and survive?
      • jghyde, on 12/31/2007, -3/+0Your reply to my thoughtful and insightful comment with this bile is one reason why I know GW Bush is the man. This is especially true when you judge a man's reputation by his enemies. You are a classless, lame idiot and someone needs to take your keyboard away before you hurt yourself.
    • jsmu, on 12/30/2007, -0/+10WORST 'president' in history, without a close second, third, or tenth.
      RUINED the economy, ruined the country, gutted the Bill of Rights, instituted voter fraud, fascism, torture as national institutions....
      Have anything else to say, you imbecilic pile of horse dung?
      • jghyde, on 12/31/2007, -3/+0What about lost a war in a far off land, increase taxes and ruined economy, bombed innocent people with nuclear weapons...

        Harry S Truman!

        And liberals build shrines to this man today.

        Same thing will happen to GW Bush. History will be very kind to him...
    • sinnuendo, on 12/30/2007, -1/+1Delirious pile of *****.
  • SLuM, on 12/30/2007, -8/+11The evil of corporatism. We can stop is and no it won't come by voting for some cook. We need a violent revolution so it can be shown to the corporations--don't ***** with us (the people) or we'll start beheading you.
    • engwar, on 12/30/2007, -2/+3"...voting for some cook"

      Alton Brown is running for prez?
    • SouthsideIrish, on 12/30/2007, -0/+5If we have to do it violently then America was a total failure. I would like to think we could do it peacefully, or maybe what comes next will be far worse.
    • wildgift, on 12/30/2007, -2/+2We can't even get it together to raise the tax on the richest 2%. There's no chance of a "violent revolution" except by small fringe groups.
    • TIMMYGOAT, on 12/31/2007, -1/+0The most famous revolution that started beheading people was in France. Which in turn gave them Napoleon. You need to read a book about it before you spout such nonsense.
  • themckay, on 12/30/2007, -11/+2"a good rule in most discussions is that the first person to call the other a Nazi automatically loses the argument." - the economist

    "when an adversary uses an inappropriate Hitler or Nazi comparison, you have only to say 'Godwin's Law' and a trapdoor falls open, plunging your rival into a pool of hungry crocodiles." -the smithsonian
    • jeffiek, on 12/30/2007, -2/+7"inappropriate " is the operative word. Nothing in the article was inappropriate, instead it examines the past to find fundamental reasons people will behave in a manner that results in the unthinkable and to see if any of those reasons are in effect today.
      • themckay, on 12/30/2007, -4/+1For God's sakes, please read some history books first. NOTHING in this day and age is comparable to the Nazis. Systematically gassing people as a means to cleanse a society is incomparable. 30,000 dead each day and their bodies burned. That is the Nazi's legacy. Comparing nearly anything to this is absolutely ridiculous.
        • jeffiek, on 12/30/2007, -0/+6For God's sakes, please read some history books first, NOTE THE DATES. The Nazis gained power YEARS before the gassing began.

          THAT is the lesson to be learned. NOT what the Nazis did with the power, that will never happen again. It is HOW THEY GOT the power.
          What would the next authoritarian government do if they get a similar degree of power? I don't know, and I damn sure don't want to find out. That's why we examine the past, to protect ourselves BEFORE it's too late.
  • p0s3r, on 12/30/2007, -23/+6Buried as BDS *****.
  • ElAssoWipo, on 12/30/2007, -3/+55Lol, post 911.

    Like it's something new. Remember Vietnam? I do. I read the same article back in the day, except 911 was called Vietnam.

    Alcohol was made illegal in 1913 and you think American fascism is something new. That's laughable. Remember the McCarthy trials? When it was illegal to think that communism was maybe not so bad?

    Remember when the cops killed students for protesting? Remember Attica?

    Fascism isn't new, you just have a very short memory.
    • whahaa, on 12/30/2007, -0/+10i think a large part of the phenomenon of forgetfulness here is coming from the generation born after 1980, the most vocal bunch of all on the intertubes. this generation is too young to really remember the cold war, barely conscious of the first gulf war. their first political memories come from the clinton era, 8 years when america was reveling in the afterglow of the USSR's collapse. to a generation that grew up in the 90s with no large, propagandized 'threat' like communism or terrorism, this all seems like it came from gwbush, when in fact what really happened was that american had an 8 year reprieve before returning to it's fear-mongering population control tactics.

      just my own personal theory here.
      • ElAssoWipo, on 12/30/2007, -0/+6There's not just one factor, but that certainly is one.

        This generation lived such a sheltered life. They are even sheltered from seeing images of Iraq. During Vietnam, we had reporters following the military on missions. When America saw that they were firebombing farmers and villagers, they almost had a social revolution. No more mediatic coverage of wars. Now we get some douche bag in a hotel telling us that it's "pretty violent today" or "pretty calm today".

        Same goes for everything they learned. All the information that reaches them has been selected, sanitized, censored and modified. And it's not like we can expect them to learn anything in school, that was fixed too.
        • levintofu, on 12/30/2007, -0/+3It all started when Bush wouldn't allow them (the media) to report on the bodies being taken off the planes.
        • jghyde, on 12/31/2007, -1/+1I agree that the current generation has lived a sheltered life and most of the Cold War attitudes were never experienced by them. I have a 20-something working for me who wondered, aloud, "so you sat alert on a bomber loaded with nukes ready to go bomb Russia on a moment's notice? Why?" He was serious too.

          The Pentagon learned from Vietnam how to handle the press, and the press, owned and controlled by giant corporations feeding off government access obliged. But what the government-corporate axis cannot control are citizen journalists who venture out into Iraq and report what they see and post it for virtually nothing -- for free-- on the Internet. That is something different, and far more open than anything we had in Vietnam.

          The problem is these 20-somethings are too ***** to venture outside the walls of the Green Zone to report anything. So there. Back at ya!
      • Moonrider, on 12/31/2007, -0/+2Clinton's term had its own horrors, Waco, Ruby Ridge, the first "free speech zones" . . .
      • TIMMYGOAT, on 12/31/2007, -3/+0So you think that the USSR posed no threat? Here we where dealing with a dictatorship that killed far more people than the Nazis did. A political system that was responsible for the deaths of ten of millions of innocent people. The USSR who crushed democratic populist movements in Hungry and Prauge. A system that built a wall..not to keep people out but to keep their own people in. And you think we were wrong to oppose them?

        Of course it was all fear mongering to you. No real threat. Well thankfully both Democratic and Republican saw the communist threat as real and opposed it.
      • cmackattack, on 12/31/2007, -0/+1Why the hate on the young and naive? If anything, I would think that the older should be happy to have a a refreshment of people wanting to acknowledge and fight oppression. Moreover, the young could and should be pissed at the old for allowing this to happen or continue to happen....
        I fail to follow this logic of, oh it's not that bad! Or, oh, this is nothing new! Don't worry...go back to sleep. ***** that! New issues, old issues, measured as a little bad, or measured as a lot of bad...***** that! ***** that! ***** that!

        As Bob Marley said; Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
        Get up, stand up: don't give up the fight!

    • JPOOPOO, on 12/30/2007, -0/+2There are too many distractions in people's lives for them to remember anything relevant.
  • ProfessorRamrod, on 12/30/2007, -2/+18what we really do need is to get off our lazy asses and vote...i remember hearing that only 10% of voters that vote for the main race vote in the primaries, if we all vote for Ron and Kuchinich(SP) we can shut those MSM bastards up, shut the cowards in office up and shut the wannabe dictators up. Come January get off your lazy ass and vote
    • timinpa, on 12/31/2007, -1/+0Absolutely DK is the man. Not only will he redirect us toward peace but toward helping our less fortunate citizens. He will redirect our $$$ from waste on military spending toward helping our people.
  • baalzebub, on 12/30/2007, -0/+4if bush doesn't do it i bet the if the next president happens to be a religious nutcase zealot will, ...
  • gasoline, on 12/30/2007, -5/+18You confuse Nazism and fascism. Fascism in its purest form was in Italy during Mussolini era, and yes, the United States indeed are like Italy at that time; you even make the same mistakes: Italians invaded Ethiopia in 1935 to boost morale back at home, and, well, things didn't work out well. When WWII started, the Italian army was very under-equipped.

    Comparisons with Nazi Germany seem a bit far-fetched.
    • baalzebub, on 12/30/2007, -0/+6yup, and if something happens where we need a lot of soldiers and equipment somewhere quickly we wont have it because bush squandered it in Iraq...
      • nycmac247, on 12/30/2007, -1/+3Blackwater and we'll just print more money to pay them.

    • campbellsoupkid, on 12/30/2007, -2/+6I agree completely. Comparing our situation to Hitler's rise to power immediately loses the audience and the argument. But the comparison to Fascist Italy and Mussolini is spot-on. It doesn't need to be a Bush; it could be a Huckabee, a Giuliani, or a Clinton who feels the need to grab all power "for our own good." Polls show most Americans would acquiesce. As we already have in torture, illegal surveillance, military invasion and occupation of foreign nations.
    • Izult, on 12/30/2007, -0/+5the comparison to Nazi Germany after Hitler took power and the SS and camps were in full swing is not a good one It's the comparison to when it was still a democracy that was neutered by the very people sworn to protect it that scares the ***** out of people because that's what hits closer to home. It shouldn't matter if the comparison is Fascist Italy, Germany, Chile, the list can and does go on and on. What should matter is the fact that America is resembling ANY Fascist state at all.
      • Moonrider, on 12/31/2007, -0/+3I wish I could digg you up 100 times because you hit the nail on the head, right square on the head, and drove it in with a single blow. "What should matter is the fact that America is resembling ANY Fascist state at all." Absolutely!
  • Colten, on 12/30/2007, -14/+0Vote OBAMA!!!
  • antoniuk, on 12/30/2007, -0/+5Every one of us is guilty for letting this happen. I have accepted the consequences for sitting on my laurels and not revolting. I will have to live with this and so will you all.
    • TIMMYGOAT, on 12/31/2007, -2/+1***** you retard. You aren't living in a dictatorship. Go out and get some fresh air.
  • nycmac247, on 12/30/2007, -5/+4What is Hillary = Margaret Thatcher?
    "Gotta be tough!"
    How is that different from Bush?
  • eexlebots, on 12/30/2007, -16/+3Yet another Alternet article about crummy conspiracy-type stuff that isn't actually happening (to the shrill degree they are talking about. Is there some new kind of Alternet spam brigade, or is everyone drunk in preparation for new years and digging really out there stuff for entertainment value?
  • Smackmaster2000, on 12/30/2007, -2/+13The only reason it didn't happen after 9-11 was that Bush wasn't quite able to seize power completely. Think about it, Congress authorized going into Iraq not six months later and they would have authorized anything the President wanted at that time. But by the time the President thought of it, it was too late and people had started to wake up.
    "When fascism comes to this country it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Upton Sinclair
    • Hypomanic, on 12/31/2007, -0/+3... Sinclair Lewis.
      • Smackmaster2000, on 12/31/2007, -0/+0You're right. I don't know how I made that mistake.
  • WildTurkey00, on 12/30/2007, -12/+4Comparing America to Nazi Germany is absurd.
    • rlbigfish, on 12/30/2007, -2/+4Maybe for another year or 2.
    • radiantstorm, on 12/30/2007, -1/+9The point is, the powers that be LEARNED from the Third Reich. Social engineering is a technology.
    • Tias, on 12/30/2007, -1/+1Yes of course, Canada, Brazil etc. are not Fascists. Comparing the USA to Nazi Germany on the other hand.
  • terroristusgov, on 12/30/2007, -14/+10United States Government are terrorists, war criminals, and horrific liars.

    9-11 was an inside job! What happened to building 7?

    Depleted uranium is a weapon of mass destruction!

    Play Wall Street like a PONZI SCHEME!
  • Colten, on 12/30/2007, -19/+0OBMAMA!!!!!!!!!! WILL SAVE US!!
    • rlbigfish, on 12/30/2007, -0/+5"Ohh noes, the REDs have single-handedly brought us to fascism! Let's get the BLUEs in there to save us!" News flash: None of the front-running candidates are going to change anything for the better. Period. No matter who wins in 2008, the "War on Terror" continues.

      /Unless it's Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich. A fat ***** chance.
    • Corrosionx, on 12/30/2007, -0/+5How about we try someone who's NOT in the CFR?
  • Barnolde, on 12/30/2007, -1/+12We're all *****, what else is new?

    By telling people that new security features like cameras are for their own good makes them accepting towards them, makes them less likely to question them. Britain has the most cameras of any country and the crime rate has not gone down significantly, only the amount of privacy has.
    • Colten, on 12/30/2007, -0/+0No, France has the most cameras.
    • TIMMYGOAT, on 12/31/2007, -1/+0what privacy are you talking about. Do really have an expectation of privacy when you are standing on a street corner? If you do then the mere presence of a policeman would be an invasion of your privacy. See...you are in public..there is no privacy in public.</