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Countdown: White House, RNC E-Mail Scandal Bigger Than Originally Thought

crooksandliars.com — Looks like more e-mails have been deleted than previously thought from more than just a handful of people.

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  • mynamis, on 10/11/2007, -38/+2Seems like its full of sound a fury signifying nothing.
  • meshman, on 10/11/2007, -2/+18This is being reported like something would actually be done about it.
    • johnhummel, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7Your right. Go back to bed. Sorry to disturb you.

      In the meantime, we have something else to ask about when we're looking to elect our next round of congressmen/senators/presidential hopefuls: Why haven't you done anything? And if we don't like their answer, we elect someone else, until we get people who will do something.

      The wheels of justice are slow, but they *do* turn - and sometimes, they just need us to grease them a little.
    • InetRoadkill, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9Sadly, there's some truth to that. But Nixon dismissed the Watergate burglary as insignificant too, and we know what happened to him.

      The problem is that congress still hasn't decided yet that Bush is more of a liability than an asset for the 2008 elections. Until that happens, there's little chance of this being pursued aggressively. The idea that an upcoming election should determine whether the rule of law applies is pretty sickening. I would have hoped that the 23% approval rating of congress would serve as a wake up call. Apparently not.
    • GabrielS, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4@InetRoadkill

      YES! You're the man now dawg. Finally, someone that understands Washington politics.

      Is there wrongdoing? Perhaps. But being too aggressive could work against the 2008 chances.

      +1 you
  • Bogie22, on 10/11/2007, -31/+1Tell me, how many of you wake up every morning and say "I wonder what trivial thing I can get worked up over today?"
    • johnhummel, on 10/11/2007, -2/+13Trivial thing? Violating the law, then lying about it (which is also breaking the law), and breaking the law so that you can (according to evidence so far) encourage voter suppression (with "oh, noes, we gots to imprison old black grandmas because she filled out a voter registration card twice when they lost the first one!") or get prosecutors to file cases against your political opponents right before elections, or otherwise frustrate the whole purpose of government by the people?

      Or, perhaps there are people who *don't* think the systematic destruction of bedrock demographic principles (from habeas corpus to provisions against torture to voting rights to transparency of government) are "trivial things".
    • EXreaction, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9No, what our government does is not trivial.

      I wonder how many people are just ignoring what our government does because their life is otherwise comfortable.
    • CheckPlease, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Isn't there an "American Gladiators" marathon you need to watch?
    • TheEditor1, on 10/11/2007, -12/+2The real strange thing as that the moonbat can't give anyone a concrete, chapter and verse with evidence as to what laws were actually broken. All they can do is use Soros, wikipedia (what a waste of bandwidth and server resources) and thinkprogress.***** talking points like good little sheeple.
    • Bogie22, on 10/11/2007, -15/+3When Judges have checks and balances put on them get back to me. So long as liberal judges are giving probation to child rapists I don't give a DAMN what they think abut the law.
    • revjustin2, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3Hey, Bogie22. Let's you and me get together and leave these inconvenient politics behind, drink some brewskis and play a little golf. What the ***** do we care anyways? Can we make money from this somehow? No. Will this get us laid? No.

      F'ing people and their caring about the government. Wasn't that something that people did in the 60's or something? Wake up, hippies! It's like you are all acting like Regan wasn't president for eight years or something.
    • TheEditor1, on 10/11/2007, -12/+1@Bogie22

      Amen, finally another sensible conclusion from a digger, not more moonbat speak.
    • Bogie22, on 10/11/2007, -7/+0@revjustin2

      LOL, oh man, I've been soured on golf for life.

      Seriously though, I do believe that politics is a foolish thing for any person to entangle themselves with and even more so when they wave their banners of war against the other party as if theirs is any more moral. I am however severely interested in the functioning of society and the form which it will ultimately take. Politics has very little to do with that.
    • buggles, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2It's only trivial when leftists are not interested... for example Clinton lying under oath regarding his compromised integrity with a chubby intern. That was trivial.
    • stepnw1f, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1"I wonder what trivial thing I can get worked up over today?"

      A Republican says a (Republican) President who breaks the law is just something "trivial". In case you were thinking of voting for a Republican remember that statement from a Republican voter.
  • MikeonTV, on 10/11/2007, -15/+1put it on the front page of CNN and I'll give a *****
    • knomevol, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6my children needed to be spoon-fed too until they were a little older. don't worry, you'll grow.
  • TheEditor1, on 10/11/2007, -13/+2BLOG SPAM, just like the ***** from thinkprogress.***** and rawstory.crap
    • GabrielS, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2If video of the O'reilly Factor is considered "political opinion", I don't know video from "Countdown" cannot be considered political opinion.

      This post should be buried. It is in the wrong Digg category.
  • chicoer2001, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5A corrupt Bush administration. I'm shocked. How many different scandals do we need before we have some trials. Do they have to kill someone to get some justice?
    • revjustin2, on 10/11/2007, -3/+8I believe they have killed over 3500 troops and countless Iraqis. Is that good enough?
    • IslandDog, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3"How many different scandals do we need before we have some trials."

      Manufactured scandals don't automatically meet the standards for a trial. If that was a case most of the government, especially democrats would be on trial.

    • tankdilla, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Every day there's a new cover-up, scandal, or revelation of some wrongdoing by the government, and nothing ever gets done about it. It's like we've become so punchdrunk by government officials doing whatever they want and getting away with it, that when something new comes out we don't care about it anymore.

      Like the Abu-Graib rape tape that came out today. Not only are they raping people over there, they're videotaping it, and everyone from the top down is keeping their mouths shut about it. Big whoop, what's gonna get done? Probably nothing.
  • GabrielS, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3Is this deliberate? Yes.

    Why? Because the Congress has passed laws that prohibit the use of the "people's resources", ie White House telephones, computers, etc, for partisan political purposes.

    Q: How do you work around this if the White House is inherently engaged in partisan political activity? Isn't that why parties view the winning the White House as a huge priority?

    A: You work around this by having the political party supply the resources. The party pays for the devices, the servers, the storage, the support staff, they pay for everything because the taxpayers money cannot be used for partisan political purposes.

    What we have here is the Congress passing a law, a good law really, and the political parties then working around that law. It doesn't appear that we any criminal acts, but a Congress controlled by the opposition party sees it the differently.

    This is our information age folks. There are going to be a helluva lot more cases such as these where previous political activity was conducted in face-to-face and is now conducted via electronic communications. The law will be amended, but the taxpayers should never have to pay for the partisan political activities of the party in power.
    • knomevol, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1so why then delete the email?

      after all, if they're not doing anything wrong, they shouldn't have anything to hide.

      right? quid pro quo?

      i bet they have something to hide. i bet, whatever it is, it is illegal. very illegal. otherwise why risk making such a huge splash having separate domains/email-accounts for that work, and then why risk a bigger splash deleting them once that was discovered?

      because what they are doing is probably illegal - that's what they'd be telling you when you're in jail for the same exact thing, that you have no more constitutional rights.

      i say, "Uckfay atthay."

      Excerpt Article VI, United States Constitution:

      This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
    • GabrielS, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3@knomevol

      Where I work, we delete emails too. We don't keep anything we don't want to keep. It's entirely within the confines of the law to delete what we want to delete, to keep what we want to keep.

      What law compels a political party to retain it's communications? Is there one? Is there anything close to one?

      What law does a political party violate in only keeping electronic communications for today through 120 days prior?

      Give me a statutue. Point me to the applicable code. How about FEC code? Give me something. Right now you have absolutely nothing.
    • knomevol, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2firstly, gabriels, if you are conducting business in US territory, by deleting email before so many years you are probably violating the sarbanes-oxley act. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes-Oxley_Act

      where do you work?

      secondly, "presidential records act". http://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

      that's a .gov address. straight from the horse's mouth. how you gonna spin that?
    • GabrielS, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2@knomevol

      Apparently you missed this. These communications were performed on resources owned by the RNC. The Presidential records act only applies to resources OWNED BY THE TAXPAYERS.

      On Sar-Ox, it only applies to "U.S. public company boards, management, and public accounting firms." A political party isn't one of these.

      Try again.
    • knomevol, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2i did not say the WH violated SO. i said your company is.

      government business was being conducted on these accounts. this much is known. that much requires them to not delete the emails.

      again, where do you work?
  • diggless, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7someone in our legislative branch please grow a pair and start subpoening these bastards.

    Demand answers, dont accept "I dont know" or "I dont recall". These are not acceptable. If they refuse find a way to get them out for being so incompetant that they dont remember anything about doing their jobs.

    This scandal is just one of hundreds that should result in the prosecution, impeachment and imprisonment of the crooks, liars and thieves we are allowing to tarnish the name of this country.

    the systemic policy abuses that lead to the abu ghraib debacle. I dont appreciate torture being carried out in my name. Its against everything I stand for.
    The lack of a post war plan for Iraq, this is inexcusable. Officials quoted as saying "were making it up as we go" Didn't we learn this lesson in Vietnam?
    The dilapidated medical facilities for our troops who are returning home injured
    The ongoing attempt to dismantle the Judicial system
    Absolute abuse of signing statements on upwards of 1000 bills signed by the president. (many of which claim the president doesn't have to obey the rule of the law he is signing)
    Continuously citing "executive privilege" as a justification for the executive branch breaking the rule of law
    telling the people delivering reports pre 9/11 that they werent interested in hearing about it
    putting political appointees in places that have costs lives (katrina)

    i am getting tired of typing, you guys can fill in the blanks. Any one of these is enough in my mind to disqualify you from running the country.
    • TheEditor1, on 10/11/2007, -5/+1@diggless

      But in typical moonbat speak you make many assertions as to laws broken but don not provide what the laws were and the evidence they are broken. Typical.
    • GabrielS, on 10/11/2007, -5/+2Do you remember everything you have ever done in your life?

      Computers can't even log everything that they do. Even they fail at times. Your expectations are beyond the means that humans can supply.

      It looks shady, but government officials are still humans. They cannot possibly be expected to remember every minute detail about every event, every meeting, every chat, they have ever had while serving their post.
    • diggless, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4appointed officials testifying before congress arent asked to recall details about events many years in the past. They also typically fail to recall even significant events.

      It is against the law to fire prosecutors for not prosecuting the correct types of cases
      it is against the law to threaten entire courts with de-funding thier operation if they rule in cases in a way the administration deems counterproductive.
      it may be criminal negligence to appoint jackasses to head programs like FEMA, when their lack of experience results in the deaths of hundreds
      it is against the law to destroy electronic communications within our government
      it is against the law to use non governmental email to conduct government business

      again i tire of explaining all this, go open a book about the subject, read about it, then attempt to think and for an opinion. The return to a public forum such as this and inform everyone of what you think. Dont dismiss just because you have a desire to stand behind a failing ideology. This crap is driving us into the ground. The world rightfully hates us because of the perception that we are unwilling to accept responsibility, learn from mistakes or hold people accountable for their terrible decisions.

      please dont join the club that Bush puts himself in. That would be the one which believes the president is above the law. This is evidenced by his hundreds of signing statements saying that he doesnt have to obey the laws he is signing that effect everyone else.

      I dont like the idea that one citizen gets different privileges than everyone else, especially if it is the president. If anything he should hold himself to a higher standard.
    • TheEditor1, on 10/11/2007, -3/+0@diggless

      "It is against the law to fire prosecutors for not prosecuting the correct types of cases"
      These people serve at the pleasure of the President. The firings were 100% within the law. (for not prosecuting the correct types of cases; is a liberal moonbat point)

      "it is against the law to threaten entire courts with de-funding thier operation if they rule in cases in a way the administration deems counterproductive."
      Proof, again you provide none.

      "it may be criminal negligence to appoint jackasses to head programs like FEMA, when their lack of experience results in the deaths of hundreds"
      Companies hire jackasses all the time, it is not a crime. Example: Comcast

      "it is against the law to destroy electronic communications within our government"
      Proof, again you provide none.

      "it is against the law to use non governmental email to conduct government business"
      This start as a mouth piece blog item on thinkprogress.***** and has gotten legs nowhere but there and here on digg. Again, no proof has been provided.

      Typical moonbat speak as I have said before.
  • gruvsf, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4Tony Snowjob: "This is a non-story. The fact of the matter is that the dog ate the emails, there is nothing to hide"
  • byronm, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8You can spend years in prison for lying on federal forms, taxes, passports, visas or forgetting one thing or another (purposely or not) but if you're in the government you can do whatever you want without consequences and not only that people will cheer you on and say you don't have to be held to the same standards you hold the country accountable against/for/at/will
    • GabrielS, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3If you're in government, you can even kill people and get away with it. Just ask Senator Teddy Kennedy.
  • ff1959, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4"Lost" emails, what an outrage. This incident is as serious as Nixon's coverup.
    • picaman, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2It's more serious. An 18-minute gap in one tape was enough to get the ball rolling on Nixon's resignation.

      But at least Nixon didn't burn all the tapes.
    • diggless, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1its far worse as it is evidence of the systematic dismantling of the judicial branch of our government. Terrifying to me as this is the branch that the federalist papers say will topple first as it is the weakest.

      so if you want to destroy our 3 branch system and transfer all the power to the executive you start by manipulating the judicial branch since its the weakest. after you stock that branch with people who think like you then you can shoot down any attempt by the legislative branch that you dont approve of. After that its only a matter of time before you can manipulate the legislature. Then your down to an executive.

      it may seem a bit "tin-foil-hatish", but this is the sequence of events predicted when the founding fathers tried to predict where the grand experiment could / would fail.
  • revjustin2, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3@TheEditor1

    Do you have a trademark on "moonbat"? Or maybe on smug denial?
    • TheEditor1, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1I have trademarks on both actually so I would appreciate the liberal stopping the smug denial.
  • wbeavis, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1One reason Congress does not act on these claims (at least not immediately) is that they get nervous when people start turning over rocks. Every single one of them has crap to hide. I'd say the more powerful ones have the most to hide. You go investigating these things, who knows what will turn up and force someone to lose their office. Hell, with the perks they get, I'd be cautious too. Only the squeaky clean try to upset the boat, they usually get stifled before they get any power. *cough*Kucinich*cough*
    • knomevol, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1you're probably right. someone high goes down hard, it'll start an avalanche. it's like a political cold-war, with all the politicians saving up every single tattle, having them aimed at each other.

      "tear down this wall!"
  • expat001, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Ahh yeah, this administration has complete contempt toward the American people. They look at us as just an impediment to their Neo-Con wet dream fantasies. If you can't hold a gun and go fight in their illegal wars your just a piece of trash to them.

    Screw them. They should all be jailed along with Scooter.
  • ApolloXLII, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2hopefully the news channels with shut up about Paris Hilton in jail and cover what actually matters.
  • hasslinthehoff, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5Well, unfortunately, as long as Bush or Cheney don't get caught receiving a thorough hummer from a White House intern, they're in there to the bitter end. Because apparently lying to Congress about justifications for a war, revealing CIA agents' identities, ignoring due process, and trampling on Constitutional rights is just fine and dandy. Can this country be any more backwards and naive?

    I miss Clinton. The man couldn't keep it in his pants, but at least he had a brain and gave a crap.
    • GabrielS, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5You can accept felatio in the White House. Just don't file false affidavits and provide false testimony and perjur yourself on the stand.

      Getting laid isn't crime. Lying under oath is a crime.
    • knomevol, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3taking an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution and then attempting to destroy it is a crime.
    • IslandDog, on 10/11/2007, -4/+5"Because apparently lying to Congress about justifications for a war, revealing CIA agents' identities, ignoring due process, and trampling on Constitutional rights is just fine and dandy. Can this country be any more backwards and naive?"

      Can you be any more inaccurate and full of BS?



    • GabrielS, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2@knomevol

      Right. Like lying under oath. Like filing false affidavits. Like providing false testimony. Like lying to federal investigators. I bet all of these things are permissable under a Democrat controlled White House.
    • knomevol, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4if a democrat were doing these things in the WH i'd be just as outraged.

      you really come off as a nazi-sympathizer to me, gabriels. too bad your talent is wasted in that hitler is gone... oh wait, we have "w".
  • 2012not2112, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Of course if our government really did some investigating. They could find some of the deleted e-mails here. http://www.planetnelson.com/?p=269 and http://www.gregpalast.com/rove-pick-for-us-attorney-resigns-following-conyers%e2%80%99-request-for-bbc-documents/
  • TheEditor1, on 10/11/2007, -4/+0@diggless

    "It is against the law to fire prosecutors for not prosecuting the correct types of cases"
    These people serve at the pleasure of the President. The firings were 100% within the law. (for not prosecuting the correct types of cases; is a liberal moonbat point)

    "it is against the law to threaten entire courts with de-funding thier operation if they rule in cases in a way the administration deems counterproductive."
    Proof, again you provide none.

    "it may be criminal negligence to appoint jackasses to head programs like FEMA, when their lack of experience results in the deaths of hundreds"
    Companies hire jackasses all the time, it is not a crime. Example: Comcast
    I also find it interesting that the people of Florida and Mississippi (the later that also had catastrophic damage from the same storm that hit New Orleans) pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps and helped themselves. Unlike Ray Nagin (chocolate city man and former cable tv salesman) that fled the area and left his follow citizens to perish when he could have used the buses (that were ultimately flooded into their yards) to evacuate the city. God that guy is a real peice of ***** and the people of New Orleans got just what they asked for when they re-elected him.

    "it is against the law to destroy electronic communications within our government"
    Proof, again you provide none.

    "it is against the law to use non governmental email to conduct government business"
    This start as a mouth piece blog item on thinkprogress.***** and has gotten legs nowhere but there and here on digg. Again, no proof has been provided.

    Typical moonbat speak as I have said before.
    • knomevol, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2typical spin from a typical neocon in defense of the typical fascist crimes for which this administration is so notorious.
    • Bogie22, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0I've observed that broad generalities are convenient masks for specific hatred.
    • knomevol, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1i've observed a POTUS violate US law, international law, and international treaty preemptively striking a sovereign nation claiming WMD that turned out to be someone attempting to sell their oil for euros instead of dollars, and three thousand two hundred and fifty of our sons giving their lives for that cause.

      it is a travesty, it is inhumane, and, yes, i am broadly general in my classification of bush and all his supporters as criminals - specifically.
    • TheEditor1, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0@knomevol
      Ok, provide evidence and prove everyone thing I say wrong. Obviously you are a typical liberal, tear down the truth and and as Bogie22 states; broad generalities are convenient masks for specific hatred. I expected just as much from a digg user, which had become almost as liberal as the thinkprogress.***** and rawstory.crap that gets posted here.

      Provide proof of your claims and disprove what I what I said. You want it in legal speak.

      Counselor, please provide evidence to back your testimony or it will be stricken from the record. I provide proof and common sense, you provide NOTHING.
    • VitriolAndAngst, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Yeah, but Digg "getting" more Liberal is because Truth has a Liberal bias.

      So, the more informed and familiar with truth people get, the more Liberal. It's called Education.

      I'm sorry if that seems biased. Again, I'm not trying to be flame bait. I'm just being honest. Conservatives have been on the wrong side of every social issue in US history. Republicans policies ruin economies. You want no infrastructure costs for the lazy and low taxes? Move to Mexico.
  • knomevol, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1oh, theEditor1, don't worry your ugly little head about it.

    the United States Constitution will prevail in the coming great reckoning.
    • TheEditor1, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0Great retort, unfortunately it is as baseless as the rest of your arguments.
    • knomevol, on 10/11/2007, -0/+18) yup.
  • JohnnyXmas, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1In other news that doesn't go anywhere: I just got this email thread at work:

    From: Johnny ********
    Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 12:16 PM
    To: Gerald *******
    Cc: *********
    Subject: RE: parking sux at *********



    Jerry,

    That little man in the wheelchair means its handicapped parking. I don’t know how you thought that sign meant the spot was for you.

    -Johnny


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Gerald *****
    Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 11:08 AM
    To: *****
    Cc: *****
    Subject: parking sux at ******

    Today they marked up the cost on my special parking spot

    Man parking sux here. Now I pay $1250 a week to park my car. This is nuts.

    Thank You
    Gerald *******

  • b0gus2008, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I read the term "Moonbat" quite often in this post. Is this some Wingnut term for super-awesome people?

    /Rhetorical. The answer = YES
    • TheEditor1, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0@BBeerB

      Based on your comment you are an obvious moron. I did notice that you provide absolutely nothing constructive to the conversation. Not a big surprise considering the source.

      @B0gus2008
      The answer = NO
      If you think liberals are 'super-awesome' then you are delusional.


      • b0gus2008, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0I believe the exact quote is: "The answer = YES". You're not very good for an editor... who do you work for?
    • BBeerB, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@The Editor
      How can you consider the source, if you don't personally know the source?
  • gthrank, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Please would somebody give Bush a blowjob so that we can impeach him already?!
  • BBeerB, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4I think that Gabriels and the TheEditor1 have some hot man on man action while turning a blind eye to the hypocrisy and lack of moral standards that the administration has shown time and time again. Again I am speculating and TheEditor1 is going to want some proof, which thankfully I don't have. Just imagine TheEditor being a top and calling gabriels moonbat.... comedy gold.
    /got nothing, just felt like bashing the two blind partisans here.
    • stepnw1f, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Yes, but they try really hard... **snort**.
  • TheEditor1, on 10/11/2007, -4/+0blind partisans

    Interesting that a conservative is a blind partisan when they agree with their party to some extent, but a liberal is not partisan when they do the same. You talk about hypocrisy, look in the mirror.
    • stepnw1f, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1This coming from a Bush supporting right winger... oh the irony.
  • Compared2What, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2Another duplicate to keep the DigBots going!!!
  • duckstrap, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3The reason this is such an important scandal is because it is the very heart of how a government becomes tied to one political party. Computer systems in general, but particularly email, is the central nervous system of any modern organization. When the servers are off the books and being run out a political office, it means that the soul of the government is no longer "by the people, for the people..." It's by the republicans, for the republicans. If one were, to say, manipulate the terror warning system to blunt the impact of news that benefits a candidate from the opposition, as was clearly documented in the 2004 Presidential campaign cycle, this is how you would do it. This is how the map of the nervous system would work. That the emails that have gone missing are almost all from political workers like Mehlman and Rove absolutely stinks to high heaven.
  •  

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