What is Digg?141 Comments
- cogen, on 10/12/2007, -6/+77The letter does not differentiate between illegal and legal, naturalized immigrants. Therein lies the problem.
- mozzer, on 10/12/2007, -5/+38Thank you cogen!
Nice to see that someone actually read the article, and the letter. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -10/+40Interesting viewpoint...what if I spoke Cherokee? Apache?
Go spread your ignorance and hate somewhere else, jackass. - sooperdooper, on 10/12/2007, -5/+30Trying to disenfranchise legal immigrants is not "the law," no matter how much you want it to be.
- NinjAlt, on 10/12/2007, -10/+31"The letter has now been traced back to the campaign of Tan D. Nguyen, a Republican challenger to Rep. Loretta Sanchez (D-CA)."
Who would have guessed? - an0nymous, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23...I don't believe that it was part of any conspiracy by the Bush and co. Just one idiot without forethought or morals.
That being said I am amused by your tortured attempts to tie it to the Dems. - Dweller99, on 10/12/2007, -7/+24Didn't read the article did you?
- shaggtastic, on 10/12/2007, -8/+24It wasn't sent to illegal immigrants, genius.
- asauterChicago, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19@bUND
"Finally, Americans are waking up and realizing how illegal immigration from mexico, into california is RUINING the quality of our lives and taking action against illegal immigration."
Hey man, I was wondering could you cite some specific examples how Hispanics immigrating from Mexico are RUINING quality of life where you live? I don't know, maybe it's because I live in a major city, the only thing I see Hispanics doing is taking the minimum wage $6.00 an hour ***** jobs no wants (even the white trash, trailer park folks I know want to work in a Union supported $10-$20 an hour factory) and moving into areas that were previously dangerous drug ridden slums and turning them into safe, quite, family friendly Hispanic areas (who wants to go to the west side and get some Sopas and Churros??)
So, I don't know, I guess I'm totally missing how they are RUINING the quality of life in this country, but I guess things could be different where you live. Maybe all the bad Hispanics go to small towns or something.
So could you please cite specific examples for me? I am very confused. - an0nymous, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19to quote cogen
"The letter does not differentiate between illegal and legal, naturalized immigrants. Therein lies the problem." - leobaby, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14"Be advised that if your residence in the United States is illegal or if you are an immigrant, voting in a federal election is a crime that can result in incarceration, and possible deportation for voting without the right to do so. …"
Note: there is a comma separating two very distinct parts of the sentence. Regardless, the implication is very clear....
",and possible deportation for voting without the right to do so. …" - pvtjohndoe, on 10/12/2007, -19/+30Illegal immigration is in no way ruining my quality of life.
- shaggtastic, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16What's incredibly ironic about this story is that the candidate who sent out the letter telling legal immigrants it is illegal to vote *is himself an immigrant*.
Satire is so dead. - cogen, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12"Be advised that if your residence in the United States is illegal or if you are an immigrant, voting in a federal election is a crime that can result in incarceration, and possible deportation for voting without the right to do so."
I was wrong, they do differentiate somewhat (I blame the lack of caffeine). However, the wording of the letter is sketchy and misleading, as pointed out by other posters.
Why would you send something like this to people? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13@asauterChicago
Does 87 hospitals closing in CA due to illegals getting free treatment count?
Google it. - an0nymous, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14I concur. Voting is a right reserved for citizens. It is reasonable to check for proof of citizenship before allowing one to vote.
- shaggtastic, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12I consider myself a liberal, and I agree with your statement regarding illegal immigration. That said, I also think that it should be easier to legally immigrate.
The letter, however, isn't accurate, because it says that immigrants are not allowed to vote when they most certainly are. - Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13As I've said before, these kind of articles are great for rousting the nutjobs. Makes 'em rise to the top so they're easy to skim off.
Blocked. - shaggtastic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I can't believe I'm being told to look up the word irony by someone who is evidently illiterate.
- bigturns, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12reading costs (in terms of time) - hate is free.
- ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I know you are wrong when you say most aren't, broke.
The nasty little truth of the immigration argument is that it really is specifically about Hispanics. The most vocal, the most active illegal immigrant activists are Hispanic, the ones calling for amnesty are Hispanic, and there is a very good reason for this: The Border.
The reason the immigration issue has become so virulently anti-Hispanic is justified. It is actually US policy to provide Amnesty to illegal migrant Hispanics while kicking out illegal migrant blacks. If you do a quick search on Guantanamo Bay, you'll find that it was used to hold captive many Haitians fleeing conflict in their country. Compare under the same Attorney General and President the whole Elian Gonzalez affair. They tossed the Haitians in a cage and took the Cuban to Disneyland.
Now, what pisses me off about migrant workers is the same thing that pisses me off about outsourcing. It is simply a clever way for rich people to widen their profit margins by breaking Unions illegally. Mexico's economy is so bad that what we would consider slave wages in this country are desirable for Mexicans. We cannot condone the ritualized enslavement of any people just because their country treats them worse. We need a borderline economy or else we'll squeeze out our own citizens. (By the way, if you say Unions shouldn't exist and maybe companies would pay more, have you even seen how much those businesses make in a year?)
The simple thing to do is keep track of how much illegal immigrants are paid and then to enforce a minimum wage on employers regardless of their workers' wages. We need to enforce the minimum wage ON EMPLOYERS and not FOR WORKERS. If this could be done, then that would take away the whole "they do jobs that other people wouldn't do" ***** which is patently UNTRUE. They do jobs that other people wouldn't do at wages which are ILLEGAL. - a7bat, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12What a douche. He sends out a notice to legal immigrants, who are American Citizens, telling them not to vote. What a way to tell that he dislikes Latinos and Democrats.
I guess it's not ok to send it to Republicans and Vietnamese? - shaggtastic, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9It is because, if you read the article and several other comments, HE SENT THE LETTER OUT TO LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Seriously, do you think that illegal immigrants sign up for these mailing lists?
- a7bat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7His website http://www.tanforcongress.com and he is a Vietnamese immigrant himself.
- leobaby, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9"... or if you are an immigrant, voting in a federal election is a crime"
where does it say illegal in this quote? - drlha, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7brokekid. No, I think you'll find most illegal immigrants in California are "EWI" (Entered without inspection), and not here on expired visas.
- asauterChicago, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@2ndRevolution
You would have a point, if the study wasn't found out to be completely wrong and a piece of propaganda funded by an anti-immigration group:
http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2295
The basics, essentially remember the old scientific term "Correlation doesn't mean Causation" I.E. just because the crime rate goes up in the summer, and ice cream consumption goes up in the summer, does not mean ice cream causes people to commit crimes.
The same principle applies here, these hospitals were in underfunded, poor and located in highly polluted areas. The treatment for illegals was largely covered by Medi-Cal, only taking a small loss from treating illegals and their children. Most of the loss was caused by A: Pollution, B: non-insured Legal workers, which make a far greater number than illegal immigrants. So once again, just because there are a lot of illegal immigrants working in poor areas of California, does not mean they caused the closing of these hospitals.
I'm assuming, that since you're on the computer at 11:20am Cali time, that your not one of the people that lives in a poor industrial area of Bakersfield, and even by the off chance immigrants are closing hospitals, I assume you're not affected by this anyway. So once again, will you please cite specific examples on how immigrating Hispanics have RUINED your quality of life - Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Yeah, two days ago it hadn't been traced to Nguyen's office.
- tgone, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6It's a sad day when you're automatically branded a racist because you believe the borders should be protected and immigration should be regulated.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5pintomp3
Why are you encouraging the birth of what is sure to be the Antichrist?
Freedom hater....grrr. - lonelycanuck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4As an imigrant myself, I find the whole debate over illegal immigration incredibly alarming. On the one hand, having been born in a third world country, I understand the economic plight people face and the allure of salvation when it's only one border crossing away. On the other, I like many before me, chose to jump through the hoops, apply and obtain legal status.
It is incredibly important that we dont undermine the principles of the laws we enact just because the problem is complicated and hard to deal with. When it comes to those asking for specific examples of illegal immigrants effecting the quality of the average american life, I offer one example...
As a physician, I am bound by the oath I took (and the law) to treat any patient that comes into the emergency room. We treat them first and worry about billing later.
But what happens when that patient has no fixed address, or refuses to give us an address for fear of being deported? Where do we send the bill to? Whether they be hispanic, european, indian or asian does not make a difference to us, but if they use the services provided knowing full well they cannot afford it, they end up hurting the system.
It not only directly effects government sponsored health care programs, but indirectly effects private health care firms. So when you hear talk about medicare or medicaid running out of money, or see your health insurance premiums go up...you can look to those free-riding the system as one of the many factors contributing to this problem. Please understand that I am fully aware there are other factors that may contribute to this problem more than others, but this is just one that directly relates to the topic of the thread.
On a purely principle front, I think most Americans against undocumented aliens are against them for the simple reason that they broke the law. Unless we can pass a law to somehow legitamize those already here, or atleast control the flow of people across our borders, we'll probably continue seeing problems like this. - shaggtastic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6It would need to cost $0, and even then there are privacy issues.
- pintomp3, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6because he sent it to legal immigrants. duh
- leobaby, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I think the meaning of this one sentence is clearer when you point out that the letter was sent to a carefully chosen group of people.
- an0nymous, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5They certainly work cheaper.
- inchrnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3sending a letter like this to LEGALLY REGISTERED VOTERS is intimidation and designed to scare those voters away from the election. It is deplorable and undermines the intent of our democracy. If you support this tactic, and it is undeniably a political tactic, then you are un-American.
I hope the letter has the opposite effect and the legally registered, legal citizen immigrant voters show up in record numbers to crush Tad Nguyen. - mbrutsch, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6This is why America is such a great country. Anyone can immigrate here, with nothing, and, with hard work and determination, work their way up to discriminating against minorities, jus' like whitey.
- Doriath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3you missed the "or you are an immigrant" part.
if
1) your residence in the United States is illegal
or
2) if you are an immigrant
There is seperated out for you so you won't miss the second half again.
I added the 1) and 2) for you. - shark72, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Did they? Convenient that it had the effect of disenfranchising voters who traditionally go Dem, ain't it? Hmmm?"
More to the point, he bought a list of registered democrats and sent it to them. He did not send the letter to republicans.
He also sent it on forged letterhead, copying an anti-immigrant outfit's logo. The republican party knows he did it and has asked him to resign. I really don't understand why people are defending this guy. - pintomp3, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5he and michelle malkin should hook up and have cute little self-hating asian babies.
- Doriath, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"If you are not a citizen then you are already a CRIMINAL in volation of the laws of America."
It is not a crime to not be a citizen of the US.
Furthermore, it is not neccessarily a crime to be in the US if you are not a citizen. - Doriath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Ahh, you have done what many others in this thread have done. You have removed some words from the quote in attempt to alter its meaning.
"if you are an immigrant...for voting without the right to do"
Since we're taking these liberties, let's put some words back in:
"if you are an immigrant [who may have a right to vote] ...voting in a federal election is a crime that can result in incarceration, and possible deportation for voting without the right to do so [even though you did have that right]"
It clearly says "you may be deported ANYWAY" - cogen, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@repins
Sorry, I guess I'm a ignorant of magnitude and venues of fraud in an election process, especially in that area. I was under the impression that it would be fairly tough for someone in this country illegally to become registered to vote, which makes it come off (in my view) as a scare tactic.
But, as I said, I'm ignorant of the voting fraud that this is meant to cover, so I can't comment on that. - waynechng, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3WOW! Talk about a shell game. Tell them to vote in the first line, but then a whole lot of diatribe about illegal status, illegal voting, blah blah blah. This is completely psychological warfare!
For the naysayers, why the hell would you send a letter that's say it's illegal to vote if you're not a legal voter, to a registered citizen voter? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Repins,
Chris Knight would like to have a word with you. - HarryBauzonia, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7@Cogen
"Why would you send something like this to people?"
Because Loretta Sanchez won the last election due to illegals and non-citizens voting for her. - exobyte, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@cogen
It does differentiate. The first paragraph reads: "You are receiving this letter because you have recently registered to vote. If you are a U.S. citizen, I urge you to participate in the democratic process of voting."
Following that are the statements that were repeated here. - repins, on 10/12/2007, -18/+20@leobaby
evidently smarter than you because I actually read the whole sentence...you left off this part
for voting without the right to do so.
Amazing that you totally ignored that part..... - ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Na'atahe, bitch.
- Mozmonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@leobaby
Your missinterpretation is at the heart of the problem. It WAS written to be interpretted as saying that any immigrants will be deported for voting, but what it ACTUALLY says is that you might be deported if you're not allowed to vote.
A better way to say it is, you may be deported for voting if you're not legally allowed to.
I'm sorry you're too naive to realize that politicians play with words to say things that mean different than what they sound like. That's how they pass laws. If you don't read the law carefully it'll be easy to ignore the most important parts.
Either way it's pretty f*cked up that somebody would do this. -
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