What is Digg?105 Comments
- BadassCheese, on 10/12/2007, -3/+69Oh, there's something that makes this illegal. Oh it's on the tip of my tounge. It's... It's...
...
....
IT'S THE ***** CONSTITUTION! Remember it? I do. - TortfeasorG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+26It's surely possible that Congress could pass this law. However, Congress does not have the power to authorize the violation of 4th Amendment rights. If this law is accurately described in the linked-to article, it would plainly violate the 4th Amendment, which generally requires searches to be based on a warrant, supported by *probable cause* (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probable_cause). The article suggests that wide scale searching would be conducted on as little as an unsubstantiated tip that one student may have a joint.
This law would be struck down almost immediately. It is only a political statement. Those who vote against it will be branded by its supporters as unamerican because they hate our teachers and don't want them to be safe. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+28Hopefully if some girl is brave enough to stick some up (you know), when they find people still smoking it in the bathrooms and realize how its getting in, they'll make the outrageous claim that they need to be able to completely strip everyone and search everywhere. Then so many parents will shoot it down it won't even be funny. And perhaps then we'll actually get people to stand up for the constitution.
- Jolene, on 10/12/2007, -5/+28Great...we'll be creating more pedophiles...and more sexually abused kids...
- borninda818, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24lately the government has been doing a lot of thing that are undemocratic. For one, the whole idea of the patriot act goes against a few amendments all by itself. Another thing I can think of is that thing where you are not allowed to write anything that may show an illegal activity in a positive light. This refers to those gambling magazines that were shut down because they talked positively about online gambling, which had just been made illegal. I believe this one would be freedom of press and freedom of speech.
What pisses me off the most isn't that the gov't is being undemocratic. I just hate the charade.
I have a splitting headache so I find it difficult to think at the moment. Please add on if you have a good example. - superalamar, on 10/12/2007, -4/+27these kids are so lucky. We didn't grow up in a police state, so we will be really miffed about it, but to them it will just seem normal.
Who wants some prozac? - insinuate, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24Sigh...politicians. Always trying to combat a problem and take a little bit more of our freedom away by making us think we are safer. This is outrageous, but in this day and age of mass wire tapping phones and other constitution breaking activities...I can see this BS actually pass and George Bush will sign it with a big fat smile on his face saying "Now we can stop the terrorist!"
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23Of course it is and it will pass. Who wants to be known as the Representative who voted against the Student and Teacher Safety Act?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22Man I thought the US was a "macho" strong country. They're a bunch of scared pussies.
- Cameleopard, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22"If this law is accurately described in the linked-to article, it would plainly violate the 4th Amendment, which generally requires searches to be based on a warrant, supported by *probable cause.*"
Have you tried to board an airplane lately? - megaloid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19No, no, no! Clearly, you have not attended an American government school, because if you had then you would know that it's not abuse if the state does it.
- shaaban, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16I am still in high school and I know that i would need to see a warrant before they open my backpack or anything else. This is just sad.
- Zaxcomp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15I swear to god if I am ever asked to be stripped searched in the next year and a half of schooling I have, the situation will be escalating quite high.
Its time that we stop letting the ruling elite decide what's best for us, and start taking matters in our owns hands. "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." Read it, Learn it, Live it
http://www.law.indiana.edu/uslawdocs/declaration.html - livestradamus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13Ahh.. Our Democratic Nation at work. (Can't say tax dollars because that goes to banks)
Isn't it wonderful?
*sigh* - oMeSSiaHo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I honestly dont know if the constitution applies in school. I would assume it would but my schools actions leave me to believe that isnt the case. I am punished based on what other people say (hell I was even expelled based on a lie) teachers can seize whatever they want, I've had my bookbag searched and my locker searched all of the time and I have no right to a "defense" when I get into trouble. I wonder why our nation is so complacient when their rights are stepped on, its been going on our entire lives!
- rhawk301, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12ok, I can agree with you that it is in the first stages of a bill. I would like to point out, that it is not lame. We need to understand these bills before they get into committee and kill them early. Write your congress and reps, at least send an e-mail and warn them. Remember that the Patriot Act was in these stages at some point, and then was voted on as a surprise one night.
- SillyDigger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Pretty sweet deal for pedofiles if it passes *sigh*
- SniperGX1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12this may be one of the few times violence really will become the answer
- jarvuss, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12***** this! If I was still in high school and someone wanted to strip search me because I might have pot on me, I'd just leave and change schools.
I had a friend who had to get her car searched because a drug sniffing dog smelt something suspicious around her car. The cop was on an ego trip and accusing her of all kinds of drug activities and making her cry the whole time he's searching her car. Sad part is the girl hardly even know what pot was. So I could only image what a cop in a strip search situation would be like on an underage kid. That could scar them having some middle age man violating them like that. - PunkRampant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Yeah it's possible, because apparently there are a lot of jackasses in congress these days that want to gear America towards fascism. Luckily there are also congressmen that oppose this, hopefully enough to reject it...... right?
- xfTwitch, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12@insinuate
Perhaps you're not as informed as you think. My kids are home schooled via a charter school system in California. That charter, the books, supplies, educational specialist and all the assistance that we want, or do not want, is, in fact, federally funded.
Perhaps you should do a bit of research before you go mouthing off on an internet forum about things you obviously don't know about. - livestradamus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9But to not be involved or to be uninformed about bills/laws that are discussed isn't a good idea. The more aware we are of whats being discussed the better it is. The Government serves the People of the Nation.
If you have servants in your house, do you turn a blind eye to what they do? No way Jose!
We should all keep a close eye on many of things, specially touchy subjects as this. Spend 10 minutes a day, surely we can afford to give it that, particularly in a time like this- when there is no trust! - cfsporn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10The thought of all the perv teachers runs through my mind. KILL THIS PROPOSITION!
- ydt89, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9It's already like this... Last year at my school, on suspicion of drugs the office would randomly call down students and dump there backpacks on the floor and search through everything. A solid 200 students where searched and nothing was ever found... It kinda depresses me whats become of the rights of young adults.
- cfsporn, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12I can not put it any better so I will just reply to you.
- Loonacy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7The head of the CIA told me that the fourth amendment doesn't say "probable cause", it says "unreasonable search and seizure". And who would know better than the CIA?
- livestradamus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I don't know man. There have been a few absurd bills/laws passed.
Remember the Patriot Act? Heard of the Federal Reserve Act? (eventhough it's illegal to tax us, Supreme Court's ruled on it)
Timing is indeed everything.. - insinuate, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12didn't you read it?
"The Student Teacher Safety Act of 2006 (HR 5295) is a sloppily written bill that would require any school receiving federal funding (essentially every public school)"
Home schooling isn't exactly "publicly funded schooling" - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Should any of you ever find yourselves faced with the choice of consenting to a search and protecting your dignity, I hope you choose the latter and are proud of it. No matter what the cops say, don't ever, EVER, consent to a search. That way, you'll at least have some defense in court. Anyway...
There seems to be a lot of confusion about what's allowed on the street vs. what's allowed in public schools. The Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that students in schools have a lessened expectation of privacy and thus they're allowed to bend the rules a little bit. New Jersey v T.L.O. was the first case to really challenge this concept (an administrator went through a girl's purse because he suspected drugs...she did have them), and the Court sided with the state.
http://www.oyez.org/oyez/resource/case/275/
More recently, in the Board of Education v. Earls, a girl challenged her school's mandatory and random drug testing program for students involved in extracirricular activities (which is pretty much everyone in a lot of high schools). Again, the Court sided with the state.
http://www.oyez.org/oyez/resource/case/1493/
Students' rights are being trampled all the time, and it's going to be up to YOU, the students, to stand up for what you think is right. The only way we're going to effect any kind of change in this country's policy on random, suspicionless searches in schools is by raising public awareness and changing public opinion. Bending over and taking it isn't going to do anything. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yes, it is possible since the government no longer feels restrained by the Constitution. It may pass as a law but will still be unlawful.
This goes back to the "who has the guns" mentality we are now subjected to by government rather than the originally intended handcuffs on the government mentality of the Constitution. Any law that violates the Constitution is unlawful. The problem boils down to enforcement. 10,000 armed and pissed off fathers whose daughters were strip searched could certainly make for an interesting day.
Government: "Hey you don't like my law? (.45ACP pointed at your head) What do you think now? That's what I thought." - AlexT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6They can already search you, your belongings and your car. I never have understood how it's legal that the minute we step foot inside school, all of our personal rights are just gone, yet we have to go to school. I know that there are safety reasons, and they should be able to search people and their belongings based on reasonable suspicion, just like police can. But I don't understand why we loose all of our personal rights when we step on campus. I'm glad I'm a senior and this is my last year.
- jeffiek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Gee, I guess you feel comfortable with this:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/07/national/main582492.shtml
what constitutes a *real* rights violation? When they actually pull the trigger? - RootWebGod, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6With a "pretty" name like (Little Billy and Miss Teacher)...Safety Act, it's no wonder they've let it get this far; hopefully congress will--carefully read--the proposed law in detail before potentially passing it into law. ;)
- EvilOtto13, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6It's been well established that students in American public schools are not covered by the Bill of Rights. For years, school boards/principals/the moral majority/whatever have censored school papers, forced unreasonable dress codes, required students to consent to search on demand with or without reason, allowed one group to be granted priviliges over another because one can catch a football and the other can't, etc etc.
Pretty soon students will be put in shackles and frogmarched from one class to another so that "they don't do drugs" while between classes. And lots of people will think that's just fine.
After all, it gets them ready for prison life. - quazywabbit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7But teachers are there to educate not play policeman.
- kaemaril, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5TSK06 : "The constitution does not apply to schools, as the supreme court ruled in one case which I forgot the name of."
Some of the constitutional rights may be 'watered down' somewhat (nobody's arguing five-year olds have the right to bear arms on school property :) ), but the constitution most certainly DOES apply to schools. For example, free speech. Schoolkids still have it, as the Supreme Court ruled in one case I HAVEN'T "forgot the name of."
Tinker et al. v. Des Moines Independent Community School District et al.
"It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate. This has been the unmistakable holding of this Court for almost 50 years"
"The Fourteenth Amendment, as now applied to the States, protects the citizen against the State itself and all of its creatures--Boards of Education not excepted. These have, of course, important, delicate, and highly discretionary functions, but none that they may not perform within the limits of the Bill of Rights. That they are educating the young for citizenship is reason for scrupulous protection of Constitutional freedoms of the individual, if we are not to strangle the free mind at its source and teach youth to discount important principles of our government as mere platitudes."
"In our system, state-operated schools may not be enclaves of totalitarianism. School officials do not possess absolute authority over their students. Students in school as well as out of school are "persons" under our Constitution. They are possessed of fundamental rights which the State must respect, just as they themselves must respect their obligations to the State. In our system, students may not be regarded as closed-circuit recipients of only that which the State chooses to communicate. They may not be confined to the expression of those sentiments that are officially approved. In the absence of a specific showing of constitutionally valid reasons to regulate their speech, students are entitled to freedom of expression of their views."
Do I need to go on? Those are just quotes from one (albeit very famous) supreme court case. Schools are NOT 'constitution-free zones' - Bushlied, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5There no better way of influencing a society people then molding the young minds of the future. Tell them what to believe, and tell them how to live, then tell them that the US Government is their friend and they'll protect you. America has been dumb down by this administration. The US government has been telling us what is good for us, and nobody has made any thought to the contrary.
How is it the we the people can't make the decisions for ourselves? Are you telling me that they know whats good for you? Democracy is died folks, we have a new and improved society where fear, corporate corruption and scandal has paved the way to a bright new future. Bend over and take the fascism like a man, and don't let them know you always wanted it. Long Live The Unraviled territories of the once beautiful Americas.
Run and operated by big corporate traitors. Have a pleasant day. - livestradamus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I feel it should be the State's responsibility to say what goes on in schools, not Congress. It makes a lot of sense to me because if you don't like how it is in your state, you move to a different one. But if its all the same all over the country, where do you go?
Canada? (no disrespect to the country) - bryanedds, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Well, this legislation does have one good aspect - it will encourage more people to pull their children out of these brain-washing, child-abusing detention centers call "public schools".
Just one of hundreds of low-cost government school alternatives -
http://www.robinsoncurriculum.com/ - fnaqzna, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Their education is obviously failing them. The kids should know their rights when it comes to search and seizure.
- richiestang78, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Schools have to much power as it is.
- Smoove, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4It's not only possible, but gym teachers across the nation are salivating at the thought. Surrounded by all that teenaged poon, and finally congress gives them full access! "Baby, I KNOW you've got a join! Up against the wall!"
- giggins, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Go to http://www.theorator.com/bills109/hr5295.html to read the bill. Sounds like the artical is pretty accurate.
- kaemaril, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4TSK06 : "Or perhaps your education is failing you? The school does not need probably cause or a warrant, go look up important supreme cour decisions."
It's 'probable cause', and if you're so up on those important supreme court decisions why don't you educate everyone? Help a fellow digger out, and cite them, instead of doling out the snide comments. - bryanedds, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Children Learning About Government at their Public School
(conjures up an old Willie Nelson-looking gentleman with an old acoustic guitar)
Hello Children! My name Jonny Wrinkletoes! And I'd like to sing you a song today! I'll need your help to sing it though, so pay close attention to the words!
(starts stumming on acoustic guitar)
If you ever have a problem
You are looking to solve,
There will always be
Someone you can call
If you are afraid of something
Or mad a little bit
You just say the words
"Government fix it!"
(spoken words, but still strumming the guitar) Now children, every time I ask a question, I want you to answer back with "Government fix it!" Are you ready now? Try to sing along! Here we go!
Did you buy spoiled meat?
(cue audience) "Gubbiment fix it!"
Do you have smelly feet?
(cue audience) "Gubbiment fix it!"
Do you feel it's not fair?
(cue audience) "Gubbiment fix it!"
Or someone doesn't care?
(cue aduience) "Gubbiment fix it!"
Got pollution in the sky?
(cue audience) "Gubbiment fix it!"
Don't like some foreign guys?
(cue audience) "Gubbiment fix it!"
Want some toys for free?
(cue audience) "Gubbiment fix it!"
What did you say to me?
(cue aduience) "GUBBIMENT FIX IT!"
(spoken word, but still strumming on the guitar) Very good children! Now you can understand why government agents are always above the law in America. An act done by a private citizen that constitutes abuse is really for everyone's protection when done by a government agent. We're from the government, and we are here to help you! Help you fix it! All you've got to say is...
(cue audience) "Gubbiment fix it!"
That's right! Gubbiment fix it! Gubbiment gonna make it all safe and fair for you, children. Gonna make it a happy day for everyone!
(back into singing)
Government can fix
all of your problems
Just give up enough of
your rights and belongin's.
It's really the only way
To keep afloat the ship
You get freedom when you say
(cue audience) "GUBBIMENT FIX IT!"
Goveeeernmeeeent fiiiiix iiiiiiiit!
(ends song)
Good job children! Good job! Let's all give ourselves a hand! - tombomb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Why are they so woried about some 17 year old going to light one after class? Shouldn't they be after that osama guy? I hear he's still free
- itistoday, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Today I got this email from Students for a Sensible Drug Policy (SSPD):
-------------
Yesterday SSDP asked you to contact your member of Congress in opposition to the deceptively titled “Student and Teacher Safety Act of 2006,” which would result in a vast increase of wide-scale searches of public school students based on even the slightest suspicion that just one student brought drugs to school.
The response has been overwhelming, and thanks to the thousands of you who took the time to write Congress, we have gotten word that influential Democratic leaders in the House will vote against the bill when it is brought up today. That is a major step towards securing the 1/3 of the House votes needed to kill the bill, but we still need your help!
We are incredibly close to shoring up enough opposition to stop this terrible bill in its tracks. Now we need you to help us flood Congress with phone calls before the vote later today. SSDP chapters across the country will be setting up phone banks on their campuses where people can call Congress in opposition to this bill. We are asking you to join them by calling your member of Congress right now! Please call the Congressional Switchboard at (202) 224-3121 and give them your address to be connected to your House member’s office. A sample script can be found below my signature.
If you have not done so already, please send a pre-written e-mail to your member of Congress in opposition to the “Student and Teacher Safety Act of 2006” by clicking http://capwiz.com/mobilize/issues/alert/?alertid=8779706&type=CO
Since we started our campaign against this legislation, it has become a hot issue in the education community. In the past 24 hours the National Parent Teacher Association, the American Association of School Administrators, and the National School Boards Association have all joined SSDP and our allies (Drug Policy Alliance, DRCNet, and the ACLU) in issuing statements opposing the bill. This issue is also being covered in the national press. You can read a story from the Bloomberg Newswire at http://www.ssdp.org/articles/search-bloomberg.shtml
Thank you for all of your efforts to stop this dangerous legislation. With your help today, we will prevail in preventing this atrocity from ever becoming law!
Sincerely,
Kris Krane
Executive Director
Students for Sensible Drug Policy
BEGIN SAMPLE PHONE SCRIPT
"My name is [your name] and I live in [your city]. I'm calling to urge [the congressman/the congresswoman] to vote against the deceptively named 'Student and Teacher Safety Act' when it comes to the floor this week. The bill would allow schools and police to invasively search large groups of innocent students based on the mere suspicion that just one of them has drugs. This bill is opposed by the PTA, the American Association of School Administrators, and the National School Boards Association. I hope [the congressman/the congresswoman] will respect young people’s dignity by voting against H.R. 5295. Thank you."
END PHONE SCRIPT
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ACT! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I guess one point to consider is that the Constitution does not authorize government to provide public (government) schooling to begin with.
- marillion, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Any politician who votes against it and goes home and calls it "The Strip Search Act" will be praised.
- TortfeasorG, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4hey, that link comes from my law school...any connection there Zaxcomp, or was it just the first google result for declaration of independence?
by the way, that's an excellent, and long forgotten point. -
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