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Church abruptly cancels memorial for gay vet; deceased had "out" obituary

msnbc.msn.com — ARLINGTON, Texas - A mega-church canceled a memorial service for a Navy veteran 24 hours before it was to start because the deceased was gay.Officials at the non-denominational High Point Church knew that Cecil Howard Sinclair was gay when they offered to host his service, but after his obituary listed his life partner, it was called off.

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polymath22 350 days ago, made popular 349 days ago

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art42, on 10/10/2007, -7/+18High Point Church: http://www.churchunusual.com
- cinder, on 10/10/2007, -4/+17Wow... Pastor Gary looks kind of creepy. Is he the next Ted Haggard?
  - mrASSMAN, on 10/10/2007, -4/+6The ghostly hands appearing from the darkness is pretty creepy as well.. like a bunch of zombies are coming to attack me.
  - DOCKAUF55, on 10/10/2007, -7/+6Maybe the church canceled it because they know that crazy ass family full of ***** retards(the Phelps) is roaming the country "protesting" soldiers funerals and dishonoring their memory. As this soldier happened to be gay, I would imagine it would draw the crazies from the woodwork quite effectively. I don't know which is more hurtful, having your church cancel your funeral ceremony, or having your dead son called a ***** ***** as you try to lay him to rest. I think the church did what it could given the circumstances.
    
    The Westboro baptist church is a hate filled cult. If you don't believe me, check out their super videos: http://www.thesignsofthetimes.net/watchsignmovies.html
    
    I can say this because I live in Bloomington, Illinois and we had the Westboro cult protest a church service we held which welcomed gays and lesbians into our church to worship god WITHOUT being judged by people not worthy of judgement. Love your brother and equally your sister.
    
    "the Kingdom of God is inside you, and all around you, not in mansions of wood and stone. Split a piece of wood...and I am there, lift a stone...and you will find me."
    - wolf530, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11Fear is not an excuse for ignorance or cowardice. The pastor said nothing about Phelps, so we have to assume the churchpeople are just backwards idiots.
  - noof, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Direct link:
    http://www.churchunusual.com/images/staff/Pastor.jpg
- CronoTrigger, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11I sent them an Email.
- snoolyagain, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1skateboarder paradise
- fli7e, on 10/10/2007, -4/+13Heh, if anyone looks like a homosexual here it's that church's pastor.
- Derrekito, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7non-denominational my ass.
  - TVarmy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4All the big fundamentalist churches don't belong to any major denomination. That's because they don't want to have to convince big committees to decide to go the conservative way. Plus, the denominations don't want to be associated with the black-and-white nature of the fundamentalists. Although fundamentalism is the biggest growing type of church, the denominations have too much integrity to change to whatever is popular. They need to stay the way they are to remind the world that Christianity is supposed to be about love, community, and acceptance.
    - ICSU, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4In other words, it's all about money.
      More people = more money
- proseandpromise, on 10/10/2007, -14/+3Maybe, as a pastor, I can give some meaningful perspective here. What's tricky about this issue is the inherently spiritual nature of a funeral. It is more than just a pleasant or emotional service for rememberance - in a church it is a celebration of a passing on, a movement into the afterlife. This makes having a funeral for someone unknown difficult, but for someone that the church views as living consciously outside of the Church, it is hard for the church to open itself to performing this service. Ultimately the church isn't a service provider - it is to be a different "kingdom" inside of the old one. Now, as a pastor, I probably would have done the funeral, but with a specific understanding about what was happening. Ultimately, the church needs to be a very seperate entity from the civil and societal aspects of our world. This is why I'm opposed to state-recognized marriage of any couple - regardless of sexual orientation, and in favor of "civil" unions for all couples - regardless of sexual orientation. Ultimately, the guy a few comments down that got dugg down was right - it's a private institution and ought to be that way.
  - kelbear, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11Clearly, God and Jesus loves everybody.... Unless they're gay. *roll eyes*
    
    And if they're supposedly evil, isn't that exactly the demographic that should be the most welcome? Would Jesus prefer to spend his time with the "healthy" or the "sick"? Matthew 9:10-13
  - mikesbaker, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8As a Christian I say you are so incredibly full of it. I would post bible verses to show how wrong it is for you to think that this is in anyway OK but I won't do that. The bottom line is Jesus loves the gays as much as he love the rest of us sinner (you included). So I will sum it all up with this. The bible expresses far more disdain for hypocrites who abuse faith for their own agenda far more than your average sinner. In fact he died because he loved those sinners so much. Your comment "but with a specific understanding about what was happening" shows us that you are judging this man. It is not your place to pass judgment and you are a bad Christian.
    - proseandpromise, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0No, I wasn't judging him. I was accepting his actions. He had a "life partner" which means he had openly rejected the teaching of this particular church and did not submit to church authority. By the information available (which is the same that you are using for the basis of your posts) it seems clear that he was not interested in being a part of this church. SO for the church to preform a religious service for him would not be honest on the part of the church. THe whole timing this stinks but it's just the way things are. I don't hate gay people, I don't have a cause, I'm probably more politcally liberal than you, and am constantly working to correct the way the church is used to propogate hatred (including being a part of the College Democrats at a ministry school where there were 3 of us). Ultimately you just don't know anything about me, and if you took the time to consider what I said, I think you'd find that it makes sense. The church is not a politicized organism and shouldn't be. I don't want the American flag in my church. I don't want soldiers pictures on our walls. And I don't want to compromise the spirituality of a funeral service for the sake of patriotism or "common decency." I would have the very same argument with marrying two non-christians in the church, or with having a CHristian funeral for a non-Christian of any stripe. It isn't elitist or biggotted, its honest. The church stands for something - a lot of things, and it shouldn't be expected to cater to any external considerations - conservative or liberal. Christ came to establish a kingdom in the shell of the old one and that is still our business today.
  - Rooster99, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2Both of you have shown that neither of you read the original comment.
    - jameskong15, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5They clearly read it and saw how ***** stupid this idiot is. He is passing judgment on the dead person, using the Church to further his agenda, and is a bad Christian for doing so. Pretty simple stuff.
    - proseandpromise, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0How did I judge the guy? I said these words, "Now, as a pastor, I probably would have done the funeral, but with a specific understanding about what was happening." We don't have anything in the story to say the guy even claimed to be a Christian. I'm not judging anything. From the information presented it was clear that this man was outside of their community and their definition of what that community was, so offering him a religious service based on their beliefs just doesn't even make sense.
- mikesbaker, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I am christian (that lives in dallas) and I hate mega churches and the hypocrites that fill them up.
- mikesbaker, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8comment abuse by me because I posted this at the bottom but I really want more people on this web site to see this:
  Here is a personal anecdote. A mega church called my work asking for a delivery. Apparently at a faith building rally they had split the crowd into groups each of which would be represented by one of the major brands. One single pizza. I could hear the crowd in the back ground it was one of those revivals. The deal was they were calling all of the big chain pizza places and wanted to see which one would get their first. They then went on to say that the winner would get a large tip. I asked why the loser would get. They said he would get nothing. Bear in mind I could hear the crowd behind the man ordering. I told them that I would not participate in something that could potentially put my driver and other people in risk and probably result in him losing money. Now I should have ended the call then but for some reason I did not. I heard some muffled discussions while holding the line. The man then got back on the phone and told me that it was actually for him and his one child. Our conversation was being broadcast to the entire crowd (which from the noise sounded to be in the thousands). They cheered this lie. My blood began to boil and some how I ended up CALMLY telling him that I knew he wasn't telling the truth and I would not put my driver at risk for their amusement. Then I heard in the back ground the groups MC tell the crowd that my brand had chosen not to participate. Mostly cheers (as this was split into 4 groups). I was absoultely enraged and hung up. I tried in vain to get someone to cover for me so I could deliver the pizza my self and guilt a crowd of thousands for being bad Christians (to this day I wish that I had just left and done so - and damn the consequences). As I was unable to do that I made plans to go visit the church on Sunday and let them know how I felt. Luckily for me a good friend of mine who also worked for the same company as I was the voice of reason and pointed out that it would likely cost me my job and wasn't worth it because they wouldn't learn anything anyway. Now pretty much anyone who has seen me post on digg knows I am a Christian and fight for our good name, but these people make me sick. People who know me on digg know that I work against people espousing bigotry against Christians. This article reminded me why that attitude is so prevalent. So we all are not horrible hypocrites . Not all of us stand on the street corner and preach. Not all of us want to force our views onto others. I just wish that diggers could realize this one very simple point. Not all Christians are bad people. Its just a vocal portion of us that give us a bad name.
  - ICSU, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I am surprised it took so many posts for "No true Scotsman" to show up.
    - mikesbaker, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I was at work ;)
siszam, on 10/10/2007, -73/+19It's a private group. They can do what they want. It would be different if it was a government run institution. Don't like it? Everyone wants seperation of church and state but they want to dictate what churches believe. The bible very clearly condemns homosexuality as an abomination against God. Churches should not support it and should stop bending to please groups. The churches who do support it are not biblical and have false teachings not of God. If you don't want churches dictating your belief system then don't pretend you have a right to dictate theirs. Don't act like the church is the wrong one here. http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=1302
- jstohler, on 10/10/2007, -15/+88It's not about legality. It's about being ***** ***** fundamentalists.
  - ezstan, on 10/10/2007, -8/+10You said it!!
  - nixonrichard, on 10/10/2007, -9/+49More importantly, it's about the vanity of ***** ***** fundamentalists. If you don't want to hold services for gays, that's one thing, but if you cancel a service for a gay guy you knew was gay only after you realize people will see what you're doing, that's REALLY *****.
    - miriclaire, on 10/10/2007, -6/+14Looks like its the CHURCH that has been outed! For being hateful.
  - nigh7dagger, on 10/10/2007, -8/+7Everyone who thinks that the people from the church are hateful, horrible people didin't finish the article. They set everything up for his funeral at a different location, finishing the tribute video and provinding food for everyone, among other things. Considering having the funeral at the church would make it seem like they were accepting a lifestyle they should think is wrong (at least they should think it's wrong if they want to follow what the Bible says) they did more than was to be expected.
    - kufu91, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4why would having a service for him there be anymore accepting of an aspect of his lifestyle anymore than employing him would?
      - nigh7dagger, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2He wasn't employed there. It was his brother. That has nothing to do with this except for the fact that his brother working there was the only reason he was going to have his service there in the first place.
    - proseandpromise, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1It's because for Christians funerals are inherently spiritual. If you want to seperate secular and spiritual you have to draw lines that are tough. The whole one-day-before thing is shady, but ultimately, setting up an alternate service is appropriate.
- revthwack, on 10/10/2007, -8/+27Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh (1 Peter 2:18)
  
  So we should do away with the emancipation proclamation, as the bible obviously supports slavery?
  - GatesofHell, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4Actually, the word translated as slave is better translated bondservant, which was likely the best way (in most cases) to pay back a debt. No wages, but housing and food every day.
    - jameskong15, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4So if we change the word of slave into “bondservant” slavery (bondservantry) becomes alright then? Why don’t I see any Christians pushing for this to be legal yet I see many pushing for homosexual marriage to be illegal. Strange stuff right there.
    - GatesofHell, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Because culture has changed. It is allowed for bondservantry (your word) today, just as back 2000 years ago. It is just not as common. The Bible warns to respect your "masters", and for "masters" to respect their servants. The Bible does not allow for violent acts against servants.
  - proseandpromise, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0It's all context too. Christ's way was that of allowing people's own evil to witness against itself. He says that we ought to let anyone who would take advantage of us do so. St. Paul goes on to explain that when we do so we become a witness of Christ's reality and saving presence. So in that passage you have a whole bunch of people being told (by St. Paul) to submit to their authorities. It was the Christian's way of subversion by love. Christianity was born into a pagan and horrific empire that sought to destroy it quite literally. The actions of Christians became a means of destroying the empire from the inside-out. Ultimately they gave in and integrated with the empire, but what you are finding there in 1 Peter (and also in Ephesians, where Paul says almost the same thing) is "civil disobedience." It's really a pretty liberal idea I think.
    - jameskong15, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Yeah, liberals totally support the idea of slaves submitting to their masters. Meanwhile, Christians support men sucking each other’s dicks and marrying animals.
    - proseandpromise, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0You don't think that the idea of love regardless of circumstance is liberal? The idea that I should love terrorists and not bomb them isn't liberal? The notion that I should love my neighbor even when it isn't convenient isn't liberal? Peace and love have brought down more walls than hatred or violence ever will. But, ultimately I'm afraid you're right. I don't see much love in the atheists on this forum. It is the same viral ad hominem stuff I see from Limbaugh, O'Reilly and the fundamentalists you hate so vehemitaley. I suppose I have more faith in liberalism than most of you.
- Scheissen, on 10/10/2007, -7/+32Then tax the damn churches.
- trogdoor, on 10/10/2007, -1/+12I don't think that the government should be allowed to keep KKK members from having their meetings, that doesn't mean that I can't call them ***** crazy bigots.
  - Calcularius, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1the KKK does not enjoy tax-exempt status
- donkeykang, on 10/10/2007, -8/+4Love the sinner, hate the sin.
- tubeblender, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2*****
- Plato, on 10/10/2007, -10/+3hahaha, I love how the libs bemoan any form of censorship here on digg (that stupid number fiasco, if you'll recall) yet, if a group of people who think differently than them try to exercise their freedoms, it's considered "horrific".
  
  liberals are clueless.
  - ViktorVaughn, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3And with that wry, witty response, your side is that much closer to winning, because the world is only full of us and them and as long as all of us can get together and beat all of them, we win, and isn't that's what's most important?
  - Gerbil_Juice, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1When did this become about political ideologies?
    - Touchy610, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0That's precisely what i was thinking.
      
      Yet another repub that tries to make something that has absolutely nothing to do with politics his own....
  - grendelwraith, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Love thy neighbor is not exclusive to the person in the next pew.
    It applies to all of humanity.
    
    If someone cannot do that, are they are a christian?
    Or a pretender hiding behind the dogma?
- wolf530, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10If Jesus can consort with lepers and prostitutes, I don't see how he'd have a problem presiding over a dead veteran's funeral, no matter what his sexual orientation was.
  - proseandpromise, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Because Jesus believed and taught things as though truth existed. When he was with lepers and prosititutes he loved them, but he called sin sin. He said to prostitutes "go and sin no more." He called out the woman at the well who was living with her husband. He doesn't do this just so she knows that he knows about it and is ok with it. He calls it out to provide an answer. He came for the sick, but he came to make them well and to show a different way of living. That's why the early church called itself "The Way." Now to do somethign for someone who was still sick, who was unrepentant, that was reserved for members of the way (like a funeral) would have been difficult to jive with Christ's devotion to calling people to change.
- Monsis, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Surely it's illegal in the US to discriminate against anybody based on their sexual orientation?
  - revthwack, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2No, unfortunately it's not.
- techmonkey4u, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Morality and Legality are two intersecting circles on the same Venn diagram. You can operate within the law of the land 100% of the time and still be an immoral prick.
- wolf530, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2@Monsis: It's not illegal.
- Calcularius, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Hey Siszam,
  Everybody is sick of you and your stupid religion.
revthwack, on 10/10/2007, -7/+129"Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, unless thy neighbour loves thy neighbour more than thy neighbour's wife"—Matthew 19:19, High Point Church edition.
- miriclaire, on 10/10/2007, -24/+3NO WAY!!!!!!!!! you are joking--please say you are joking!
  - firedrillduckie, on 10/10/2007, -3/+23...
    
    Please say YOU'RE joking.
    - miriclaire, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Oh--you've READ this twisted version, have you?
    - firedrillduckie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3You're an idiot, miriclaire.
  - nigh7dagger, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11Key words being "High Point Church Edition".
    
    I thought it was pretty ***** obvious.
XISUPERMANIX, on 10/10/2007, -14/+158What a bunch of dumb asses, show some respect. Who cares what his beliefs are, he was a vet and fought for your freedom.
- EmileVictor, on 10/10/2007, -15/+4I bet sailors get more poon than you do.
  - tasadar24, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Not this one... *sigh*
    - acceleriter, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Shouldn't have gotten married :).
- cybermonkey114, on 10/10/2007, -1/+17homosexuality isnt a belief, its a sexual orientation...
  otherwise i totally agree though
- HanSolo69, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4What is a belief however, is that our freedom was in distress and needed fighting for. If that's your theory than I would say the more fighting there is in the middle east the more in danger our freedom seems to be.
- johngr, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The only Americans who ever fought for anyone's "freedom" were Generals Washington and Lee and the men who fought under them. All other American warriors, despite what they were brainwashed with patriotard nonsense to believe, fought for the bankers.
dralter, on 10/10/2007, -23/+6This is the exact same ***** Associated Press article that was posted 2 hours before you posted you.
http://digg.com/world_news/Christianist_Fun_Texas_Church_Cancels_Gay_Vet_s_Memorial
- Bdog2g2, on 10/10/2007, -1/+19Knock Knock
  Whos there?
  Life.
  Life who?
  Life Sucks;
  - verge, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2Life's lessons come at the most unexpected times. Thanks Bdog2g2. Your Mom would be proud of your poetry and your dupes. Before you put on your jammies, here's your 1 post from yesterday -- a dupe, you submitted for the third time to get credit.
    
    http://digg.com/offbeat_news/Beheaded_Snake_Sends_Man_to_Hospital - 2days ago by longliu
    http://digg.com/offbeat_news/Beheaded_snake_sends_man_to_hospital_2 -2days ago by jaredvolkl
    http://digg.com/offbeat_news/Beheaded_Snake_Bites_Man Yours - 1 day ago by funny poet Bdog2g2
    
    The wonderful aspect of Digg is that Polymath cares enough to submit stories with substance.
    Though this story was identical, I've made the SAME mistake.
    The trouble with your type is that you try to piggyback on others to whom Digg actually means something and you try to be funny.
    What's funniest is that you've had a little too much sugar and are overstimulated. Listen to Mom, especially before you write poetry or type.
    - polymath22, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4verge.
      thanks for the compliment.
      as far as dupes go, i don't really have a problem with people submitting dupes. often, when a person does go to submit, the story has already been submitted, but went no-where (2 hours w/ 2 diggs, for example). When i come across this, i digg the dupe, submit my own anyway, and go about my way. sometimes i get a homepage article off of a dupe. sometimes, someone esle gets a homepage article by submitting a dupe of mine. i don't really mind, so long as the information gets out.
      for example, when the minnesota bridge collpased, i submitted a new article, and saw that there was a whole bunch of dupes. i dugg them all, submitted my own anyway (27 diggs), then i went to the hot lists and dugg any and all bridge collapse stories until one went on the front page. then i turned around and started burying all dupes, including my own.
      regrettably, sometimes a dupe will make the front page, like this one.
      when there is a dupe, it's hard to say which, if any, will get any attention, especially when that person does not have a friends network, no avatar, and have only submitted a handfull or articles.
  - Bdog2g2, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2You went to a lot of trouble to prove nothing. Thanks for playing, you lose.
    
    And since when have knock knock jokes been poetry. Let me have your address and I'll send you $1 to go buy yourself a sense of humor, yours seems to be broken.
- verge, on 10/10/2007, -8/+0Thank you Drafter.
longhair, on 10/10/2007, -9/+33Absolute ***** *****!!!
tehpwnrate, on 10/10/2007, -9/+77Megachurch... the opposite of what a good church is IMO. A good church is a small community place, not a big business bureaucracy. I'll bet in a small community church, they would have overlooked this.
- zybch, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9Probably not even overlooked. It would quite possibly not even been an issue.
  - ambrosious, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1If it had to be considered "overlooked" it would still be a problem.
- tubeblender, on 10/10/2007, -13/+9A good church in my opinion is a building waiting to become it's destiny. A parking lot.
  - zybch, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5Or one of those cool converted house things! I'd love to live in an old church, renovated to make it a home. However they're usually a bugger to heat/cool because of the high ceilings.
  - diggdong, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2A church is a graveyard. Watch were you dig.
- TVarmy, on 10/10/2007, -3/+10The mainline small churches are where the real Christians are. These Christians know that the bible is not an infallible book of laws, it's a book of observations of God. True faith is achieved by learning the nature of God and interpreting how God feels about things. It's not always easy, but arbitrarily obeying everything in the bible sometimes brings out the worst in humans.
  
  These fundamentalist churches tend to emphasize things in the bible that lead to un-Christian behavior. They try to cloister their members, making Jesus a "personal" savior, and acting like outsiders can distract them from heaven, and must be converted. Plus, a few passages about homosexuality are obsessed upon, while the many verses about acceptance, love, and sharing are ignored. Materialism is actually encouraged, as it is felt that wealthy Christians who are outspoken about their faith will draw in converts who want to become rich. Meanwhile, parts of the bible read like the Communist Manifesto. They've turned the bible into a self-help book. These churches are growing because they give people complete structure in their lives rather than mere guidelines, and they encourage divisive and hateful behavior. They're only about 25% of Christians, but they make 100% of Christians look ignorant, hateful, and shallow.
  - proseandpromise, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Well said.
  - Darksidevoid, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1No true scotsman?
ravage86, on 10/10/2007, -8/+31This church puts the religion to shame. I'm pretty sure the bible teaches us not to pass judgement, and to love your neighbor as you love yourself. It's not their place to decide he was unworthy. If it was a concern to them, they should have continued the service and prayed for his forgiveness.
- Mac101, on 10/10/2007, -15/+4The Bible also teaches us to reject all sinfulness. You cant twist the Word and make it appear that way otherwise we would be forced to have every gay person we see as normal when clearly that is not the case. We Christians are not to condemn a person but we are instructed to lead that person to the correct path away from sinfulness.
  - kufu91, on 10/10/2007, -1/+13he's dead, canceling his memorial won't make him not gay in the past
  - ravage86, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9Everybody sins. Does that mean everybody should be condemned?
    
    I think it's silly for us to judge him, especially while god is simultaneously judging him.
  - marx2k, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9I thought it was 'Hate the sin, not the sinner' or some dumb child-moral ***** like that?
  - StarlessKnight, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5What Would Jesus Do? ... "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone." Oh, yeah. If being Homosexual is a sin, then that is between them and God, not you and them. If they want help to not be "sinful," they'll ask you for help, one way or another.
- lajaw, on 10/10/2007, -4/+9it's too late for his forgiveness if he was lost...........................
- lichme5000, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8No, religion is shameful all on its own.
  - smpdigital, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Exactly my thoughts, when will people understand that religion is about controlling masses by means of fear
  - Darksidevoid, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1I agree with you, but if you're going to tell them that religion is about controlling the masses, then you should at least give them some good reasons.
mattman59, on 10/10/2007, -18/+62Campus Address:
2500 E. Arbrook Blvd
Arlington, TX 76014

Mailing Address:
P.O. Box 150478
Arlington, TX 76015

Phone Number:
817.394.3000

Fax Number:
817.394.3001

Staff List:

* Preschool – Birth through Kindergarten
* Misty Westlund – misty.westlund@highpointchurch.com
*
* Children – 1st through 5th Grade
* Todd Mears – todd.mears@highpointchurch.com
*
* Youth – 6th through 12th Grade
Roscoe Robinson – roscoe.robinson@highpointchurch.com
*
* Axis – 18 to Twentysomething Ministry
* Abel Pena – abel.pena@highpointchurch.com
*
* Excel – 50+ Ministry
* Glenda Simons – glenda.simons@highpointchurch.com
*
* Small Groups/TouchPoints
* Joseph Davis – joseph.davis@highpointchurch.com
*
* Guest Services and Men's Ministry
* Bobby Yanick – bobby.yanick@highpointchurch.com
*
* Pastoral Care and Association of Churches
* Robert Baxter – robert.baxter@highpointchurch.com
- funkyg18, on 10/10/2007, -12/+16Are you sure that is really necessary to post their whole congregation's names, e-mails and address? I'm not a member of their church, (nor do even live anywhere near them) but that really isn't necessary, in my opinion. I don't think a church would ever post the names of homosexuals and their e-mails and addresses.
  - cheychey, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11no...They would say, "I'll pray for you" as they kick them out.
  - jstohler, on 10/10/2007, -3/+15***** em -- they aren't just members, they're recognized church leaders. And they posted their information online anyway, so it was already public.
  - zybch, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9Of course they'd post details of gays if they thought they'd be able to get away with it!
    - proseandpromise, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1You just have no idea. I wish for just a few moments you guys could step outside yourselves and see how ironic all of this. "We hate this group for hating that group." That is the essence of this history of hate and violence. You will never achieve progressive and love-filled ends using the language or methods of hatred.
  - mikesbaker, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4its a mega church. the whole congregation is in the thousands
  - mikesbaker, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1its a mega church. the whole congregation is in the thousands
- muufer, on 10/10/2007, -12/+5Nothing like attacking the people that standup for what they believe. If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything. mattman59? What do you stand for?
  - marx2k, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7It's pathetic to see people standing up for what they are TOLD to believe.
  - djkickz, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9he apparently stands for not disrespecting a dead war veteran based on his sexual preference.
  - jameskong15, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone" (John 8:7). They cast a stone when it's not their place. They deserve all that is in store for them.
- tyfin85, on 10/10/2007, -8/+2yeah.. let's go to war against religious ethics we don't agree with. that's REALLY worked out in the past. Take Israel and Palestine for example. Why don't you people grow up. This is not religious bigotry at it's lowest point, this is just the equilibrium. You guys really want to be heroes, then let's see addresses for the Westborough Baptist Church.
  - jameskong15, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone" (John 8:7). They cast a stone when it's not their place. They deserve all that is in store for them.
    
    It has nothing to do with me not agreeing with them. It has everything to do with them not agreeing with their own beliefs.
- tingrin87, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0thanks a lot for this...
  just called them-
  here's the basic gist of our conversation
  me: should all people not be honored equally in life and death?
  church guy: we did not agree with his lifestyle, therefore we could not give him a memorial. *CLICK*
  
  so, who wants to attempt to DDOS their site?
JasonCox, on 10/10/2007, -11/+45I hope those so called church leaders burn in hell.
- Mac101, on 10/10/2007, -21/+4Why? Because they rejected homosexuality which is a sin? That's a contradiction, why don't we also bring in pedophiles, burglars,rapists, etc in so as not to make them feel bad. What they are supposed to be doing is leaving their disgusting sinfulness away from their life and live a normal life. In this case the church leaders are "evil?" because they refused to accept sinfulness.
  - ravage86, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8But everybody sins. Should they reject everybody? A sin is a sin is a sin. His sins are no worse than theirs.
    - nigh7dagger, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1But if he had been one of the gays that let his sexuality define him, they would either have to ignore the sin or condemn it (hopefully with kindness). Neither solution would work.
  - kufu91, on 10/10/2007, -1/+15they didn't reject homosexuality. they canceled the memorial of a dead veteran because they thought something he did was icky. they don't cancel the memorials of people who lie to people, who commit adultery, who covet their neighbors' ______, those who don't honor their parents. if canceling the memorials of people who sinned was normal, we wouldn't have memorials. why should his sin be any worse than yours, or the pastor's or anybody else's?
  - Touchy610, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7They did not merely reject homosexuality, which is their right. They also rejected a dead man, and his family, AFTER they gave their word that they would hold the memorial. The dead should not be treated this way simply because of they way they lived in their life.
  - afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -11/+3i dont see anything wrong with the church rejecting it...homosexuality is becoming a bigger and bigger problem in America. America was built on a religious foundation and flourished and since have lowered there standards and have tried to make everything ok because of "freedom" now you see America in a constant nose dive. Can you think of any countries that flourished close to the same as America has....Ive been told that any country that has allowed open homosexuality has fallen, such as Rome, correct me if im wrong b/c i really haven't researched it, however, i don't feel homosexuality is normal nor should be allowed....there is not a healthy balance in any gay relationship, the kids grow up with problems from peers, either missing a father or a mother influence, same sex couples can be very generous and kind and loving but really cant raise a child the same as i feel a man and woman relationship could!
    - wolf530, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5I've heard that all religious people like you are complete and total morons who follow whatever they are told and would get on their knees and bark like a dog if someone behind a curtain told them it would help them get into heaven. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't really researched it. However, I feel that anyone who is willing to talk ***** without knowing a lick of fact about what they're talking about is not normal and should not be allowed. America wasn't built on a religious foundation (most of the Founding Fathers were not mainline Christians, and indeed even put into the Constitution statements which disbar the country from creating a religious test for public office), and it's mostly the religious people in power who have corrupted and destroyed this country's moral fabric. Go ask your mommy for a public library card, because you need to read a little and get your head out of your religious leader's ass.
  - jameskong15, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone" (John 8:7). The End.
    - lajaw, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
      In the N.T., they no longer stone to death, but- "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
      The homosexuals are worshiping their lusts rather than GOD.
  - Smills, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3You both sadden and disturb me...
  - aduzik, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Um... yeah. You should be inviting those people in. Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors (which was basically a euphemism for "thief"), not the devout and the high-and-mighty. Basically, he hung around the people who could have used his help the most.
- crapmatic, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Wishing that is just stooping to their level. It's interesting that by forgiving them you can demonstrate tenets of basic human decency that they've long since abandoned.
  - zybch, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3No. Wishing it is completely different to making it happen (like this church did).
DanCMH, on 10/10/2007, -6/+72Great way to treat a veteran who fought for their religious freedoms...
- HanSolo69, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Was your religious freedom in any danger before he enlisted?
cmpshotty, on 10/10/2007, -21/+5Come on, he was in the Navy.. AND was named Cecil! They had to have suspected sooner than 24 hours before the ceremony!
- troyfoley, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3RTFA. They knew he was gay prior to canceling.
  - cmpshotty, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3I did read the article jackass.
    
    "The church’s pastor, the Rev. Gary Simons, said no one knew Sinclair, who was not a church member, was gay until the day before the Thursday service, when staff members putting together his video tribute saw pictures of men “engaging in clear affection, kissing and embracing.”
  - tubeblender, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2It must have given the pastor flash backs for when he used to 'help' the choir boys practice sessions... you know, before he was moved to this church from his 'other' church.
lusciouslewis, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9How ***** myopic.
- KafirGuy, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1are you just trying to use a new word?
  - smpdigital, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3myopic is the adjective of myopia and not new at all, maybe for people who doesn't know the word?
prh99, on 10/10/2007, -3/+28Funny that one of the major tenets Christianity is compassion for ones fellow man and hating the sin not the sinner. Yet all these chruches can manage is contempt.
- Mac101, on 10/10/2007, -13/+3Yes Compassion, but not accepting sinfulness. You cant have it both ways, you are either with God or with sin.
  - kufu91, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7oh come on, read up a little on what that guy Jesus talked about and did because apparently you have no idea what you are talking about.
    - afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1the church is simply trying to make a stand and head in the right direction...this is an obvious sin and of course all sin is equal however this is not a simple solution sin such as lying and such..."if a man lies with a man as he would with a woman, he shall surely be put to death" i think god stated pretty obviously that this sin is unacceptable - period .... was it paul that said i die daily, bc he had to repent for his sins, the idea of repenting is to ask forgiveness and to truthfully and wholeheartedly try to live to be a better christian being gay day in and day out is really unacceptable!
    - StarlessKnight, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4@afreeland -- Those who live by the Law, will be judged by the Law. Those who do not live by the Law, will not be judged by the Law. If you're using the Law to condemn homosexuality, then you sure as hell better not have violated the other, rather basic tenants of the Law or you, too, may deserve to die.
  - marx2k, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7lol Sounds like a G W Bushism right there.
  - ReadItAndWeep, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Jesus spent his years on Earth with those who were condemned by the religious leaders of the day, such as prostitutes. The only people Jesus showed contempt for were the hypocritical religious leaders and the wealthy. It's amazing that modern fundamentalism in America has more in common with the Pharisees and Sadducee's than with Jesus.
    - afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1they helped the family out by setting it up elsewhere, the church didnt turn its back on these ppl, they just put there foot down saying that this was an iffy thing for a church to hold, what is the church suppose to do? they have to uphold the bible and there beliefs but also show kindness to all mankind...and that did jus that showed kindness to this family while maintaining there beliefs.
- TVarmy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5This is a reply to "AFreeLand's" comments. I get that you think homosexuality is a sin. I disagree, because Jesus said nothing about it, and Leviticus is all but an irrelevant list of laws for an ancient civilization. And the New Testament stuff sounds more like being offended at sex in public. And was homosexuality really the prime reason for Sodom and Gomorra's fall? It seems that begging to rape anyone is pretty darn bad.
  
  But let's assume it is. There's a lot of people who claim to be Christians who look at porn daily. If that person's web history is found, shouldn't he be denied a memorial? And what about people who were dishonest on tax forms? Shouldn't he have "given on to Caesar?" Everyone's a sinner, but most people still get funerals. Maybe churches should just stop holding the darn things?
  - afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1i wouldnt say that the old testament is irrelevant since so far it has been accurate on anything that was to come, so therefor it has legitimacy and believability....see this is where the problems come...i am NOT a christian i was raised in church but right now im not trying to live like that its a lot of work so if ppl ask me if im a christian i say no, i am religious, but not ready for the commitment so many ppl give christianity a bad name b/c they arent committed and these are often the ones that persuade ppl that christianity is nothin but a joke or scam and that bible is nothing more than a good storybook...and those christians that look at porn everynite probably in there heart know that they are wrong and probably repent and try to break there addiction, to me this man had no desire to change his life for God and was perfectly content living in sin, and the church is against...well not against but is not hand in hand with those who blatantly disrespect god and the bible. TVarmy i can see wat your saying, however i dont feel that church was in the wrong and cant really be labeled because some of its members are horrible "representatives"....thats kinda of like saying well this marine killed some Iraqi civilians and then declaring that the entire us military is sub-par and doesn't deserve to continue doing military missions.
jdetc, on 10/10/2007, -2/+56So just because a soldier was homosexual, he's denied a memorial service. Makes complete sense.
Why not do the same for criminals, liars, thieves, adulterers? I don't think that just because this is a "sexual sin" it should be worth any more or less to the church.

Heck, it shouldn't matter at all. Christians, myself included, are supposed to LOVE and CARE for others like they were their own brother. They're all so caught up on the rules that they forget what it's all about...

This is more of an issue of RESPECT than an issue of freedom to do whatever they want.
- Hindu_Wardrobe, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Exactly. Christianity is just a set of morals, really. Don't hate, love everyone, and respect others.
  - snds, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Good call =)
- Neiby, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6I was going to say the same thing. The memorial would have happened if any of the following had occurred: he cheated on his taxes; he cheated on his wife; he had been convicted of using illegal drugs; he had a gambling problem. Just about any "run of the mill" sin would have been overlooked. But not this particular "sin". For some reason, it's just too sinful. What a crock of *****.
  - proseandpromise, on 10/10/2007, -5/+0The thing about homosexuality is that when people don't see it as a sin it is a lifestyle, predictably. So the church then has a hard time treating that like a past sin, or a sin struggle that an individual is working through. Now, what really differentiates homosexuality is that it's visible. Someone could cheat on their taxes regularly and unrepentantly and no one would know. So that is a major inequality. And you're right, most churches treat homosexuality different then other sins. Typically I think this is because churches tend to minimize those sins which aren't universally struggled with. Like everyone lies, and deals with that temptation. But not everyone deals with homosexual lust, or abortion, and so those two become "major sins" because people view them as being indicative of a lifestyle of rebelliousness against God. Kind of like no one would look at a murderer and say "oh, they're just struggling with rage, its their sin" most churches don't look at homosexuality as a legitimate temptation and struggle. So there are major inequalities in the way that different sin struggles are treated, but I can tell you that the church is, as a whole getting better at handling things. My generation of pastors has a very different perspective on the issue than our predecessors, but we will have things to learn when we face a changing culutre and have to understand what the gospel looks like then.
    - jameskong15, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5A sin is a sin. Any religious idiot can feel free to point out where the bible specifies certain sins as worse than others. It will never happen and this makes many religious people sinners in their own right. Keep casting those stones people; it only makes you less able to get into heaven.
    - proseandpromise, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Sin isn't really the issue. Repentence is. That's always the issue. You guys are half-right. Everyone has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. The question isn't that - it is how the homosexual lifestyle reflects on repentance. I couldn't be a Christian and go on lying without regret. Nor could I go on cheating on my wife. The Bible is clear about unrepentant sin. Read 1 Corinthians. In the church I work at, before I got here, someone was asked to leave the congregation because they refused to stop cheating on their wife, or to admit that that was sinful. When sin is brought to our attention and we consciously choose to not even attempt to change course we are disregarding grace, the spirit, and potentially salvation. The Bible is clear that ongoing, unreprentant sin is a qualifier from temporary removal from the Body of the CHurch. Part of that is that the rites of the church aren't administered. THis is just good Biblical Ecclesiology.
      
      Part of this church's problem was bad ecclesiology. Offering to do the service for someone that they didn't know reflects that they don't hold a funeral service in as high a regard as they probably should. And so it certainly makes there sudden moral judgement look suspiciously political, but at the core, the move was Biblical.
Laterali, on 10/10/2007, -4/+31The poor guy sacrificed his life for these stupid people...
- afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -10/+3the same way many christian do and every other religion and race...the church never said that werent thankful for this man's actions...everyone keeps getting things twisted, the church did not disrespect this man for what he did for America, they jus didnt agree with his personal life and should have some say in what they allow in there church.
  - jameskong15, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7So they need to start denying all sinners’ funerals. That would equate to nobody having a funeral there. Or maybe you can point out where being gay is magically worse in the bible?
    - afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1if you read any other of my comments it will point out that i don't believe that being gay is worse than other sins, plz read on
Lax32, on 10/10/2007, -5/+28The bible makes a brief mention that being gay is wrong. Although there is controversy on how much weight you can put on a single passage, I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

However, the bible states that every sin is equal in severity in the eyes of God. It also states that judgment of another is a sin. So the people running the church are, biblically speaking, just as bad as he is. The only thing they should be concerned about is if he was christian or not.

Reminds me of the bible passage everyone and their dog knows about and quotes, the one where Jesus shows up to this womans stoning and tells everyone that if was fine if they stoned her, so long as the first person to throw a stone had never sinned before.
- ezstan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Makes it kinda hard if we are all supposedly born with original sin, doesn't it?
  - JohnFlux, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I always thought the original sin was one of the nuttyest ideas. How can anyone keep a straight face and tell a mother that her baby has committed sins already and deserves to burn in hell?
- zybch, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2He also said (and this passage comes as a HUGE shock to most christians):
  Luke 19:27
  "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
  
  Thats some pretty ***** up ***** for Jesus to be saying, right?
  - swrlyhrly, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Zacchaeus the Tax Collector
    1Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3He wanted to see who Jesus was, but being a short man he could not, because of the crowd. 4So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.
    
    5When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, "Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today." 6So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.
    
    7All the people saw this and began to mutter, "He has gone to be the guest of a 'sinner.' "
    
    8But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount."
    
    9Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."
    The Parable of the Ten Minas
    11While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12He said: "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a]'Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back.'
    
    14"But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.'
    
    15"He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.
    
    16"The first one came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned ten more.'
    
    17" 'Well done, my good servant!' his master replied. 'Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.'
    
    18"The second came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned five more.'
    
    19"His master answered, 'You take charge of five cities.'
    
    20"Then another servant came and said, 'Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.'
    
    22"His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23Why then didn't you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?'
    
    24"Then he said to those standing by, 'Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.'
    
    25" 'Sir,' they said, 'he already has ten!'
    
    26"He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. 27But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."
    
    Way to take it out of context you jackass. Jesus was telling them a story. If your going to bash christianity do it responsibly. This probably applies to 99% of the quotes in the bible people bitch about. You're making us atheist's look bad. Research what you have to say before you bad mouth any religion.
- nigh7dagger, on 10/10/2007, -9/+1Single passage? I can think of several places off the top of my head where it says homosexuality is wrong scattered throughout the Bible. Other than the books of law in the Old Testament, which make it abundantly clear that it is wrong, you have about 5-10 verses in Romans and several other places in the New Testament.
  - zybch, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8It also says not to kill, but in that little verse I posted above Jesus is actually telling people to kill!
    The bible is a piece of badly written fiction for stupid people!
    - nigh7dagger, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1No, the Bible says not to *murder*. There are several conditions where *killing* is acceptable, such as when you or someone else's life is in danger, when God tells you to, when someone is being executed by the government because of their laws, etc.
      
      I will, as a Christian, say that there is some fiction in the Bible, like the parables that Jesus told, and the poetry in quite a few parts of the Old Testament. A lot of it is fact in metaphor, a lot is laws, and a bunch of the rest includes history that can be and has been proven as the truth and genaeology that has been proven correct.
      
      You and I would not be where we are today technologically, philosophically, politically, and socially, without "stupid people" who believe the Bible.
      - lunasunshine, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6really? when god tells you it's ok to kill someone, that's not murder? i thought that was called being schizophrenic. well, i guess you don't *murder* [technically] because you please insanity.
      - fondlesackwi, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3dont forget about the story of noah and the ark, great fiction indeed
- musicbear, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8There are also passages telling it is an abomination to wear certain clothes and to stone people for adultry and a widow will take her husbands brother in his place and a lot of other really crazy stuff (not to mention things like floods where one arc carried a pair of all the animals in the world) that we don't necessarily believe in or follow in these modern times. So if you're picking out this one topic to hold up like a weapon "because the bible says so, and it's infallible" then you better be prepared to follow all those other ones about what you wear and who you stone to death... oh and also all the REALLY tough rules like 'do unto others' and 'love your enemy' and 'turn the other cheek' etc etc...
  - zybch, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4A lot of those were in the old testament (so religious types think they can completely ignore them), even though in Matthew 5 Jesus says that he didn't intend to devalue the laws of the prophets.
    
    Its a classic matter of these christians picking and choosing ONLY the parts of the book that they like, and discarding all the stuff that would mean they'd actually have to change their way of life (and we couldn't ask them to do that, could we!).
    - proseandpromise, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2I wish you guys understood Christian theology. Jesus says he came to fulfill the law. Christian theology, via Paul in the book of Romans, clearly teaches that the specific laws are no longer practiced by Christians (and ones that you quote never were so far as we can tell, they were hyperbolic). The Bible is clear throughout that the law was intended to bring conviction. It was more about what we weren't then what we ought to be. Christ "fulfilled" the law then by coming to provide a solution for those who, looking at the law, understood there own sinfulness. You see that Christ is moving humanity toward a more perfect view of God's wishes for us when he says, "You've heard it said....etc. but I say to you..." He always moves things toward a more peaceful, loving, and submissive end, like "eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek." At one point he even explains that the OT law was what it was because the people at the time were too hard-hearted to handle the fullness of God's desire for his people. It's as though throughout the Bible we see a more and more vivid explanation of the fullness of being a son or daughter of God. This is why Christians look at passages in Romans and 1st Corinthians on homosexuality. Christians that understand the metanarrative nature of Scripture don't quote the OT for moral teaching.
    - Darksidevoid, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Your comment is interesting, but seeing as I am neither a Christan nor a theist, I care nothing about your Theology. You see, you can expound all you want on the 'true meaning' of the bible, but you are only making connections, not basing those connections on any kind of evidence.
    - proseandpromise, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Darksidevoid
      
      Granted, our evidence is existential. I can't make you believe anything. It's an experience thing, which is why Jesus had "followers" and not pupils. It took them a long time to come into faith, and ultimately one of them didn't. I'm not trying to make you be a Christian or anything, I just get frustrated because people are making really sarcastic and angry posts about something I care about deeply and they know so little about it. Most of the things being said here are based on poor assumptions and understandings of the faith.
      
      In Rome they called the early church members polygamists because they always talked about loving each other, participators in incest because they called each other brother and sister, and insisted on talking about loving each other, and because they rejected the plethera of Roman Gods for the preference of one. Hatred toward Christians has always been rooted in misunderstanding. I'm just hoping Digg will at least listen. Not believe. Not change. Just try to understand something that they don't agree with. So far my efforts haven't accomplished much.
      
      But thank you for not getting really angry.
- jameskong15, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Exactly Lax. "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone" (John 8:7). Those who cast a stone are potentially sinners in their own right. And since all sins are equally as bad, none of these people will be getting a funeral at the church. Unfortunately many “Christians” decide to do whatever the ***** they want when it comes to the bible and sinning. Too bad for them that doesn’t mean God will give them a free pass.
  - carpespasm, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1i'm not so hip on the "all sins are equally bad" thing. you mean to say that mass genocide is as bad as not taking the trash out when your dad says to?
    - fondlesackwi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Well, you know that I was taught that if you don't obey your mother and father, you will 'not' live long on the earth. I'm pretty sure thats *****, but you should get the picture. Apparantly genocide isn't as bad, and you get to live a long life LMAO!!
MexiRigger, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5how absolutely disappointing. if only they would have acted in the way Jesus would have. self-righteousness instead of tolerance, what shame.
ravage86, on 10/10/2007, -2/+24We all sin, everybody. Nobody's perfect, and the bible acknowledges this. Does this mean that nobody should have a memorial service? Or is being gay the worst of sins? How much am I allowed to sin before my memorial service is cancelled? Is there a chart I can reference so I don't go over my quota?
- zybch, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3If you believe in the bible, you have to concede that even jesus was gay for a bit.
  After all, he took the whole world's sins onto himself while he hung on the cross, and if homosexuality is a sin then he MUST have taken that upon himself as well, therefore jesus was a fudge packer for a brief period, and yet these ***** religiously intolerant bastards think its their place to clearly discriminate against people who are gay?
  What a bunch of utter utter bastards!
  - nigh7dagger, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1That's if you interpret that passage in a certain way, though. I choose to interpret it as if there was a murderer in court who was convicted and sentenced to death. Instead, Jesus says that even though the convicted killer was wrong, he would take the death sentence for the criminal. That wouldn't make Jesus a murderer, though.
    - carpespasm, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1doesn't it also say that after accepting jesus you're as clean as it you'd never done anything in the eyes of god because jesus took the act for you?
- afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1the church cant afford to continue to just condone this type of behavior...if they would have held the memorial service, its almost as if the church is saying its ok for this type of sin and further lose grounds that they have left....homosexuality is becoming a major problem and the church really is stuck in a rock and a hard place being loving and firm at tha same time....if everyone was raised with the morals of the church would there be as many problems, no, the church raises people to be considerate of other caring compassionate and to help better other and to be the best individual that you can possible be, however the church is no longer respected, im not a christian but i do believe for the most part they have everybody best interest in mind.
MexiRigger, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9absolutely disappointing. if only Christians acted with tolerance and not self-righteousness. (not speaking about all of them of course)
- trogdoor, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2If you are" not speaking about all of them" then you should not use the umbrella of "Christians" it's like saying "if only jews weren't so cheap ( not speaking about all of them of course )" . Although I do agree with you that Christian bigots are self-righteous brain washed idiots.
Skipperdo, on 10/10/2007, -11/+5it most definitely is time to shut this murderous cult down.

this is just wrong.
- snoolyagain, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0are you refering to the military?
fbombs, on 10/10/2007, -0/+17WWJD?
- joseolucha, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10...screw with these crazy christian fundamentalists' belief system by coming out of the closet on His second coming :)
- snoolyagain, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1What Would Jesse Ventura Do?
  - zybch, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1KILL EM' ALL!
mach68, on 10/10/2007, -2/+23This is an outrage. I'm sure if the man was straight but divorced or ate shellfish then that wouldn't be a problem, would it? Hyprocites!
pudgyv, on 10/10/2007, -17/+7A church is not a freaking social club. It does not have to bend its rules to accommodate anyone. Get over it.
- paddler, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Its "rules" are simple... Who would Jesus hate?
  - afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4the church didnt commit any hateful acts against this man...THEY HELPED relocate the memorial elsewhere and seemed very sympathetic towards the family, however the church has to be firm, so they arent considered hypocrites for accepting non-repentent sinners who have no desire to change! either way they would have been considered hypocrites they might as well have said NO so they stood behind there belief and im glad someone finally took a stand!
    - ezstan, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1If they truly understood the bible they would understand that Jesus is a representation of the Sun.
      - afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1not quite sure i get what you are saying....Jesus is a representation of the Sun? like the star...the Sun? im not quite sure what your saying, how is he a rep. of the sun...
    - ezstan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I can't explain the whole thing here, but I'll give you an example, the resurrection:
      The sun continues to move through the sky throughout the year until Dec 22,23 and 24 where it sits motionless(dead) on the lowest point of the horizon. After these 3 days, on Dec 25, it is reborn and begins it's movement upwards (it is resurrected).
      
      Another is the 12 disciples or the 12 constellations.
      
      If you study the religions of the world, they all share these same "translations".
      
      There is a good movie on google that sums it up pretty decently for the most part.
      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331
      
      I recommend this movie regardless of the religious interpretations of it, it has alot of more informative info on banking, 911, etc.
      Whether one chooses to believe it or not, it's still an interesting movie.
      I'm not all that great at the art of articulation but I hope that at least somewhat answers your question.
      He does not JUST represent the sun, but I'll take the beating for that comment.
- MJG2007, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7Well, in actuality, a church IS a social club. It's just a social club that requires you subscribe to the same mythologies as the others to be part of it.
  - zybch, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3And pay of course! Don't forget that you have to pay!
    After all, isn't that what the whole current religion thing is all about? Money money money.
  - emmcubed, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Hmmm...sounds like Scientology when you put it that way.
- fantasticFlan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7That doesn't shield them from criticism.
- marx2k, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Yes, a megachurch is not a social club o.O
stkman57, on 10/10/2007, -13/+4Thou shall not pack your neighbor's fudge!!!!!!
- satx, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7If you're going to effect an old English usage at least get your words right. It would be "shalt" not "shall" and "thy" not "your." Oh, BTW, thou art a bigoted *****.
rowlodge, on 10/10/2007, -13/+9here we go again, blaming all Christians for the same thing, putting everybody in the same boat.
- zybch, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11I'm sorry, but ALL christians who don't immediately come forward and denounce this type of behavior ARE to blame!
  
  They are creating an environment where it is okay to discriminate based purely and simply upon prejudice and hatred, and by not calling out other churches for this type of thing they are telling the world that they too support the discrimination of people based on such irrelevant things as sexuality that has hurt no one (compared to the rape and abuse by their pastors and priests against minors and children).
  - GuyHitByTruck, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2You do realize you just did exactly what Rowlodge said everybody was doing, right? Way to make a point!
    - jameskong15, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Actually this poster was pointing out the reality of the matter. Row did not say this practice was bad and therefore made it look supported in a way. If this post had been about the KKK killing some black person and I said “here we go again, blaming all KKK members for the same thing, putting everybody in the same boat,” would you say the same ***** you’re saying? I highly doubt it. The response clearly indicates that the poster is not disavowing the action and actually supports the group in some form. So just shut the ***** up since you clearly have no idea what’s going on and can’t interpret anything worth a damn.
  - mikesbaker, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I would have been the #1 post on this thread with my comments had I not been at work at the time.
footodors, on 10/10/2007, -9/+8Who cares! Churches suck and are parasites. He should come back and haunt them!!
diggdeep, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9check out the pastor's bio...

"Young Gary had many dreams where life would take him. Originally, he wanted to be a musician. He had a musical ear and talent that surpassed anyone’s expectations. Tragically, that dream had to be abandoned when during a routine oral surgery; Simons had a severe immune system reaction that would force him to live in a “boy in a bubble” type environment for many months."

http://www.churchunusual.com/pastor.html

The terrible punctuation aside, I can only assume that his adult bigotry is a lashing out at all of the ridicule he endured as a bubble boy.
- swrlyhrly, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2With a bio like that im surprised be didn't become a cop.
  
  Just fanning the flames.
- carpespasm, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1what did being a bubble boy have to do with him being unable to go into a musical field?
elephantstomp, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4I heard they did because their principles of hatred and discrimination
- zybch, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5That seems to be the only 2 principals most US churches have these days.
  Forget all that crap about following the example of jesus, how out of date and 'liberal'!
orbitn, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7@pudgyv

A lot of churches are more or less social clubs - "good ol boys" clubs. More about politics than God and his word, and that's just a crying shame. The Churches of Christ in this area are so caught up in passing judgement, who goes to hell and who doesn't, that the entire point seems to be lost. What amazes me is this church is non-denominational; a lot of the non-denoms around here are more liberal than the average church.. maybe this one still is, compared to the others in texas.
Nassin, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3regardless of his lifestyle he should have been allowed the funeral. I'm more shocked that a nondemonational church denied him. Don't they usually welcome all people?

What is it gonna take for christans to finally accept different lifestyles? Does jesus himself need to come down and flat out say "OK people enough of this! Gay's are fine. Get over it and move on!"
- afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2haha wow i think u r a little mislead, your not suppose to accept this as a fact of life, your suppose to pray for those that need help and try to witness to them and show them why this would be a problem...jesus wouldnt have accepted this either, i mean in the bible god said "if a man lays with a man as he would with a woman he shall surely be put to death" how much more obvious can god make it?
  - swrlyhrly, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4How is someone else being gay a problem?
  - StarlessKnight, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Very. By transcribing His Word, Himself, into modern-day English.
  - afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1because it allows others to think that being gay is ok and not a problem and to those with religious beliefs that is a problem...almost contagous not as the typical he gay he has stds but think about it like this...obesity is contagious...because if your friends are on the plus side and you are constantly with them and they constantly go out to eat and do very little active stuff, eventually you will think that it is ok to become overweight and such...much the same way with same partner relationships...
    - Gerbil_Juice, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Pure intelligence. Homosexuality is contagious? It's about as contagious as skin color.
      - afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1i mean the lifestyle being contagious, not as a disease as i stated
    - fondlesackwi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3how stupid do you have to be to believe that being gay is a lifestyle. please educate yourself and get away from the cult for a minute or two
      - afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1how is it not a lifestyle, when your were a little boy did were you attracted to your friends, NO, it isnt until there is some outside corruption or feelings of depression and feeling like your not wanted and desperateness, when the majority of ppl decide to go gay, and you notice i said go gay, b/c 8 of 10 ppl that are gay said that the decided to go that route, not they were born and destined to be with the same sex!!
    - fondlesackwi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I guess that means you could decide to go gay then too, if you wanted. You must be attracted to the same sex also, if they are. I know I made a choice to be Heterosexual, didn't we all? I wonder how many gay people you really know. I know a few, and they sure don't talk about the day they woke up and decided to go gay just for the hell of it. You would have to be absolutely nuts to do something like that in this homophobic hell hole that we live on!!! (not that I believe in Hell)
  - jameskong15, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone" (John 8:7). You are a sinner. You clearly are casting a stone at many Christians with your response. Have fun in whatever afterlife you portray gays as living in and no funeral for you. haha
historybuff, on 10/10/2007, -12/+3The church and it's members have a code to live by. And that code says the gay lifestyle is not accepted behavior. Who cares if you, the ones who condemned their actions, disagree. You've not been asked to approve.
- scabbers, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7The terrorists who cut people's heads off have a code to live by, I'm sure they don't care if you approve or not either.
  - afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1there is no comparison, and that is probably the most illogical arguement you could have made...church members donate money, make food drives, feed homeless and always try to better there members as well as there community, and firmly stand up for there country...nothin in common...
    - StarlessKnight, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2You presume on a false assumption that the Terrorists are not fighting for a cause they deem noble or in the betterment of those around them. How many terrorists do you know, personally? Spoken with any lately? It's arguable the Founding Fathers of America were terrorists, too. I really doubt the British thought their antics were just peaceful protest. Not saying all terrorists have some lofty goal in mind, as I'm quite sure there are those out there that care more about power and money than any "dream" they sell to their followers.
    - jameskong15, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3You’re very ignorant on the subject of terrorism it seems. Many terrorist groups create schools, feed the homeless, fund hospitals, etc. Read up on Hamas some time there little brain; their support doesn’t just magically appear as the Bush admin would have you believe.
- zybch, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Um, SO??? The guy isn't gay any more! Hes worm food so WHY THE ***** should the church care!
  They just use this kind of ***** to advance their exclusionist bigotry instead of doing what jesus would have done, which is to love everybody regardless of who (or what) they are!
  - afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2they said they loved the family but they cant condone this lifestyle and show people that this is and ok and acceptable lifestyle b/c according to the bible it is not...
    - jameskong15, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Any lifestyle that involves sin is not acceptable. Therefore, a huge percentage of funerals should be denied. Are they? No, you bigots basically focus only on gays as a common rule. Keep casting those stones though; they will be saved up for your funeral and stoning.
- ellabee, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2take a flying leap, wouldja? the world evolves because of the actions of people who have not been asked to approve. free thinkers, what a concept.
- mikesbaker, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3yea and it says that adultery and divorce is unacceptable (as much so if not more so - don't remembering seeing GAY in the 10 commandments) yet it is a common place and accepted practice. These people are bad people and they will get what is coming to them when they are judged.
ezstan, on 10/10/2007, -3/+15I find it disturbing that a church that continuosly uses the word "love" promotes hate.
The term megachurch describes the amount of money that a church scams from it's herd.
Religions are a parody on astrology. The only difference is they control out of fear. Wake Up!!!
- muufer, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Promotes hate? NOOOO! Does not endorse sin.
  - LeeSoong, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Tell that to every culture, native peoples, and nation that has suffered at the hands of militant christians - Iraq comes to mind, neo-cons wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross on the march to totalitarian fascism. Every day the want to erase more of the bill of rights and the constitution until the Republic is Erased and Replaced by the Money Slaves of the Police State.
    
    A dead man's body does not endorse sin - it just goes into the ground to rot - or into the freezer for the post-humanists planning on future reanimation.
  - StarlessKnight, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Even the worst Human ever born deserves a final resting place. The Church should not be in the business of discriminating in who gets put to rest. The Church should be in the business of uplifting the person, showing their fellowship that despite all the wrongs a person has ever done they are not any less Human than we are. For murderers, you could speak of wasted potential and the gifts that could have benefited everyone, for an example. You endorse sin by pretending it doesn't exist. You endorse hatred by refusing to bury someone. "They were not pure enough to enter these sanctified walls!" In the Old Times maybe the disfigured couldn't touch a church, but these are the Modern Times... they should know better than to turn people away. Their sin, upon death, lay solely between the dead and God. They don't need you judging them too.
  - ezstan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0one leads to the other.
slstsang, on 10/10/2007, -16/+3what is all the fuss about? christian church does not accept homosexuality is not news. if anyone can marry or hold memorial services at churches then anyone can be a name badge christian. I don't know any printing press would print both bibles and porn in the same facility. This is like protesting a girl should be in an all boys school, or forcing to enter a resturant that clearly says "members only". You won't let anyone to join your daughter's B day party would you? use some common sense and don't let the emotion affect your logical judegement.
- diggdeep, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7The issue is that they were fully aware of his sexual preference when they offered to hold a memorial service, and that they only canceled the service when word spread that he was gay (about 24 hours before it was scheduled to be held). The implication is that they had no serious moral objection but were more concerned about how they would be perceived.
snoolyagain, on 10/10/2007, -15/+2I thought they banned the funeral because the guy was in the military. No funeral for mafia employees. Hey it took Digg long enough to find this story, been tracking it for two days. I KNOW the preacher man from this church from when we were kids. He was a good guy back then, a really good guy. SO, what're you going to do? If it was Presbyterian or Methodist or something they would have policy. But CHARISMATICS are do-it-yourself. Since I am an intellectual, dragging myself to church, I just can't seem to do it. I figure when I die they'll have a service for me in a ditch somewhere. Who friggin cares if the deceased was in the Navy. This "you owe the military for your freedom" is wrong, this entitlement system. The deceased was not a member of the church. So skrew it all. And skrew DIGG which is proven to be corrupted. That's a lot loss worse for me than who cries and where for Mr. Dude That We All Owe yada yada yada
- Gerbil_Juice, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3"Since I am an intellectual"
  
  Right.
simonwright, on 10/10/2007, -3/+18This isn't terrible. It's the Church showing its true colors. The correct response is not to get angry with them, it's to make them irrelevant.
zybch, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7How about these intolerant religious douchebags stop concentrating what consenting adults do, and instead turn their gaze inwards to their priests and pastors who like sexually assaulting little boys and girls!
***** *****!!
- Intangible360, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5In reading these comments I would normally dig you down, but clearly, people as callous as many of the religious folk on digg, need the wake-up call.
  - afreeland, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I gotta agree with you on that one....
- proseandpromise, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0How is what you just said not intolerant. Seriously - pastors and priests love sexually assaulting little boys and girls? A few do this and its the case for all of them? How do you fight intolerence with intolerence. I'm really just at a loss here.
Subterfug, on 10/10/2007, -4/+14Sanctuary: $20
Salvation: $80
Burning in hell for rejecting gays: Priceless
Dralha, on 10/10/2007, -8/+8There's nothing shocking about this. Christianity is all about bigotry and hatred. Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
- Lynxpro, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3That book [Leviticus] is from the Old Testament. Meaning it is from Judaism, not from the teachings of Jesus (aka "Christianity").
  
  What other incorrect statements would you like to post online today as a follow-up?
  - JBourne55, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Wow! I really don't think you understand Christianity. Why do you think the Old Testament is in the Bible? Maybe because it promised a Messiah? And here's the link: the New Testament begins with the coming of the Messiah!
- zybch, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5
  ATHEIST: It says in Deuteronomy that nonbelievers and fags should be
  killed.
  
  CHRISTIAN: Jesus invalidated the Old Testament.
  
  ATHEIST: Why do you still use it if it's obsolete?
  
  CHRISTIAN: Well, it has historical importance.
  
  ATHEIST: Well, it _influenced_ history...but that doesn't mean what
  happened in it is true, does it?
  
  CHRISTIAN: It's true.
  
  ATHEIST: Evidence?
  
  CHRISTIAN: The Bible. Faith. The flood thing.
  
  ATHEIST: Um, that isn't evidence. None of that is evidence. The Bible
  is assertions, religious faith is a substitute for evidence and the
  alleged evidence of the flood thing has been refuted repeatedly.
  
  CHRISTIAN: Well, as a Christian I follow Christ's teachings anyway.
  
  ATHEIST: Didn't Christ say in Matthew 5 that he didn't intend to
  devalue the laws of the prophets?
  
  CHRISTIAN: Yes, "until it is finished". When he died, his last words
  were "it is finished".
  
  ATHEIST: Well...Matthew 27 says: And about the ninth hour Jesus cried
  with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to
  say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he
  cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost." And Luke 23:46
  says: And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father,
  unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up
  the ghost. And John 19:30 says: When Jesus therefore had received the
  vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up
  the ghost.
  
  CHRISTIAN: Well, they were standing at different distances from the
  cross so they heard different things.
  
  ATHEIST: Maybe, but damn--Christ sure seems to have some mixed
  sentiments there. Anyway, let's assume that God did want the laws
  changed from the Old Testament.
  
  CHRISTIAN: Thank you.
  
  ATHEIST: Very welcome. It's not like you have a chance without a
  handicap anyway. My question to you is: why did God change His mind?
  
  CHRISTIAN: Because the world changed.
  
  ATHEIST: So God's nature is influenced by the world?
  
  CHRISTIAN: Um, um...sure. Yes, I mean no, I mean yes.
  
  ATHEIST: So how has His nature changed since the New Testament?
  
  CHRISTIAN: It hasn't.
  
  ATHEIST: Why not?
  
  CHRISTIAN: Because the world hasn't changed in the past two millenia.
  
  ATHEIST: Okaaay. Well, isn't the God of the Old Testament a hypocrite
  anyway--with the genocide and the not killing people and all that?
  
  CHRISTIAN: God's a nice guy now. He just burns people forever anyway
  because that's what you do when someone you love disagrees with you.
- Bozodog, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1A Jewish friend of mine says the correct translation is, “A husband shall not lie with a man in the same bed he lies with his wife. That is an abomination.”
  
  Can someone who practices Judaism offer any insight?
  
  Also an off-topic question about digg. I posted this comment/question yesterday. Today I went back to see if anyone had answered it, and the comment/question had been removed When I go my profile, it still shows I left a comment, but there is not one there! How/why does a comment get removed from digg? - Or - is there some new procedure to post that I didn't follow, so it wasn't saved (while still triggering my profile)?
blankoboy, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1...
Ugoff, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Nice one. It's ***** like this that makes Christians look bad but of course, stuff like this only happens in the "Bible belt". That is just sick, I mean this guy DIED serving our country, and even though most of us disagree on the war, still he had the balls to go out there and fight and I can safely say that only a very small minority of that church's congregation can say the same thing yet they do something as low class as this. It's stuff like this that makes me wonder about ourselves as a whole. Shame on this church and if I were a member of that congregation, I would never come back again and I would encourage others to do the same. Just vile and sick, what even happened to "loving thy neighbor" and forgiveness the teachings Christ STRESSED THE MOST! Oh but in this day of age, we can just nitpick what we want to hear and what we don't want to hear. ***** hypocrites. If you can't follow the basis of a certain religion, then you shouldn't be a part of that religion. Screw this church, and screw those who agree with their actions, just a bunch of homophobic phonies.
- Ugoff, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3RTFA, doh. I ***** up the facts but still, my point stands.
donkeykang, on 10/10/2007, -10/+6I'm tired of all the negative press that Christians are getting. I think this is terrible and many Christians do as well. You see, what people need to understand that is that as Christians, we recognize we are still human, but the title itself leaves us under much more scrutiny because what we should be doing. I follow Jesus, not a set of rules and regulations. I'm sure many Christians can agree that being gay is no more of a sin than stealing, looking at porn, lying, et cetera. They are all seen as sins in the eyes of God and none receives greater weight than the other. There's a growing dichotomy between Evangelical, Fundamental Christians and ones who try to show that following Jesus should be about love. For all those who judge Christianity, I suggest by first starting to realize that stereotyping or condemning a group by a few articles or ill shot comments is ignorant. One great book I suggest, if you care, is Blue Like Jazz by Donald Miller. He gives a good non-Christian perspective...he agrees that some Christian practices or fundamentalists are pretty messed up and in his day he even set up a booth to apologize for the Crusades on the Christian behalf on his college campus (Reed College, a very liberal campus); it's a great read. I just want to stress that what Christianity is really based off, IMO, is Jesus, not the Bible and often we (Christians) often fail to realize that. We can never measure up to Jesus, but I sure hope to emulate that guy. I'm hoping that this doesn't turn into a debate, I'm just filling in my two cents. Nobody can argue that Jesus was a great guy and that's all I'm trying to say. I follow him first, not the "rules" that Christians are "supposed" to follow.
- donkeykang, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1I'm also not saying that the Bible is void, but as Christians we are literally followers of Christ.
  - LeeSoong, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Let me know how your 40 days and 40 nights fast goes.
    
    Become Christ.
- kevinway, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4You're not that tired of the bad press. If you were, you'd be doing something instead of talking about how other people have done things.
  
  If you really gave a *****, you'd go to that church and you'd protest it as a Christian. But nobody is going to do that. There will be no Christian uprising against this bigotry. It's looked down upon perhaps, but it's tolerated, and that very tolerance gives the bigotry strength.
  
  In short, you are part of the problem and you are doing nothing to fix it. Posting to digg doesn't help absolve you of the fact that your religiosity gives credibility to their hate.
  - jameskong15, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Too much truth there, haha.
- Lynxpro, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3
  There is definitely a big rift between what Methodists and Episcopalians (Anglicans, Church of England, etc.) profess to be Christianity versus what non-Denominational/Baptist churches claim to be Christianity.
  - Wosat, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Isn't that the truth. I'm Episcopalian myself, and I've been amazed at the difference since growing up in a town that was primarily Baptist. Two out of the last three organists at my Church have been gay, and it was not a secret. Different worlds.
    - grendelwraith, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I was raised as an Episcopalian.
      Our choir director was gay. And openly so.
      He also died of aids in the late 80's
      He was loved and respected in our church and was just as much a member of our congregation as anyone.
      Seeing how others practice Christianity is what made me leave the church.
      And why today I fervently believe in the precept of "do onto others, as you would have them do unto you". As leading by example is the only way to Shepard a flock.
- zybch, on 10/10/2007, -5/+3Sorry, when was the last time you actually saw a Christian following the example of christ! All 'modern' christians do is follow the bits they like and ignore completely the bits they don't!
  - mikesbaker, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3no you FAIL!!! thanks for the sweeping generality
tyfin85, on 10/10/2007, -8/+1The issue here is whether or not they rejected service to him before or af

Church abruptly cancels memorial for gay vet; deceased had "out" obituary