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61 Comments
- kemp34, on 05/18/2009, -3/+48Tell me this guy doesn't have the look like he would torture the ***** out of just about anybody:
http://media.photobucket.com/image/michael%20chert ... - sibbett, on 05/18/2009, -5/+31Jason, again, a very informative article.I salute you for all the work you're doing to get Bush & co, prosecuted for torture and murder
- jleopold, on 05/18/2009, -3/+28thanks for the kind words folks J-Blogging and sibbett. I am knee deep in documents and it's incredible how much hasn't been reported and how long the list of Bush people who approved and pushed for torture is.
- jblogging, on 05/18/2009, -4/+27Nice catch Jason
- Jrod65, on 05/18/2009, -3/+26Seriously, if all you Republitards can offer this conversation is a cry of "What about Pelosi?!" then please sit down and shut up.
Let all the truth come out on this. I don't think there is anyone outside of Nancy Pelosi who would care if she came down with this.
Get the truth out. Punish the guilty. - clvngodess, on 05/18/2009, -2/+20Looks like one of the actors from Texas Chainsaw Massacre --The original series of horrors.
- EndIsraelRacism, on 05/18/2009, -2/+18http://www.stargods.org/ReincarnationOfTheSpiritsL ...
- ChuckDees, on 05/18/2009, -2/+18Asking if Pelosi knew is childish.
See little kid's when caught doing something wrong, will roll over on their siblings.
But..... Joey knew i did it, so he's going to get in trouble too right? - inactive, on 05/18/2009, -2/+18How about this photo of Chertoff with his dad
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3141/2968830553_e3b ... - mystcnurse, on 05/19/2009, -0/+14He's a ***** FREAK - and he's a dual citizen, WTF is he doing making decisions about USA policies?
- Jrod65, on 05/18/2009, -1/+13Look people, you gotta draw a line in the sand and say, "We won't cross it, no matter what. We will be the moral high ground and lead by example. Some things are worth dying to protect/defend." That used to be the difference between America and the rest of the world.
It's interesting that there are now so many people who have never had to worry much about anything in their lives who are willing to sacrifice that moral high ground. Looks like leading with fear works.
Somewhere in the world Cheney and Bin Laden are giving each other a high-five. - BBE1965, on 05/18/2009, -3/+15As head of "Homeland Insecurity" Chertoff controlled dozens of immigration concentration camps around the US where men and women awaiting asylum and immigration hearings were murdered by guards, beaten, refused medical care, and raped. So no surprise he was beating the torture drum. These camps are still full of thousands of prisoners. One in particular in south Texas has prisoners in their second week of a hunger strike to protest conditions.
- MJG2007, on 05/18/2009, -0/+101. You don't know how many people were waterboarded.
2. You don't know if they were all 9/11 conspirators.
3. About 3000 people died on 9/11, not 1500.
4. Torture is illegal and violation of the very values that the right wing claims makes us the greatest country on the planet.
A wise man once said, "For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?".
Of course, that wise man was from the Middle East and had a foreign sounding name, something like "Jesus" or something. - drmobutu, on 05/18/2009, -1/+10Let's see if Chertoff is ready to fall on his sword, over this...somebody has to...
- chevyorange, on 05/18/2009, -2/+10The thing most ding bats aren't thinking of is that even if/when Pelosi goes down (tin man), it all circles back on to the self righteous ***** who patently approved of torture: GW Bush on down.
- tgc1, on 05/18/2009, -1/+9That guy should be arrested.
- chevyorange, on 05/18/2009, -3/+11Its torture by our definition. We hung people after WWII for it. Quit making exceptions.
- mulling, on 05/18/2009, -3/+10What do you expect from a guy whose name literally means "Son of Satan"? (google it)
- Hetman, on 05/18/2009, -1/+8So you are pro torture as long as americans are not doing it?
- Phylter, on 05/19/2009, -0/+7Waterboarding is torture and illegal. The argument stops there.
- ddoorn, on 05/19/2009, -1/+8Mr Chertoff? Meet Jesse Ventura!
- ctiger2, on 05/18/2009, -4/+11Michael Chertoff should be waterboarded.
- kemp34, on 05/19/2009, -0/+6He's from the Middle East and he sounds pretty extreme. Waterboard him!!
- 8FoldPath, on 05/19/2009, -0/+6"To Chertoff, I say great job! Thanks for helping create more terrorists."
FTFY - fury420, on 05/18/2009, -3/+9waterboarding is torture. it has been considered torture for hundreds of years now. It has been prosecuted as torture by the United States on several occasions, even when conducted by government personnel in the 1980s
trying to claim waterboarding is not torture and is acceptable to save lives is hilarious.... i could just as easily argue that the use of The Rack and Thumbscrews is acceptable to save lives, especially since both were once considered less severe forms of torture than waterboarding - woahwoahwoah, on 05/18/2009, -1/+7However, waterboarding could serve as a way of confirmation for the terrorists. How do we know that they will offer actionable intelligence, when they clearly would be willing to say anything plausible to end the suffering? We are claiming to lead by example, and yet we engage in torturing detainees.
- AmazingSteve, on 05/19/2009, -0/+5They don't want the truth out unless they can drag somebody down with them.
- aijazbaig1, on 05/18/2009, -1/+6It isn't just bush or cheney or clinton or obama or pelosi..they are just pawns in a vast puzzle...America's political elite or the power that be..whoever they are, has been playing with other countries' lives since the past six decades. As an example consider Iraq. Washington spawned Saddam knowing he was such a maniac as long he was willing to their bastard. He assasinated Abdul kareem kassim who was a popular leader although he was anti-western which irked washington.
If u want a quick glimpse into Washington's dirty games in this country should read and digg this:
"A tyrant 40 years in the making" from the NYT
http://digg.com/political_opinion/A_Tyrant_40_Year ...
FTA:
"The United States also sent arms to the new regime, weapons later used against the same Kurdish insurgents the United States had backed against Kassem and then abandoned. Soon, Western corporations like Mobil, Bechtel and British Petroleum were doing business with Baghdad -- for American firms, their first major involvement in Iraq."
Also FTA:
"As its instrument the C.I.A. had chosen the authoritarian and anti-Communist Baath Party, in 1963 still a relatively small political faction influential in the Iraqi Army. According to the former Baathist leader Hani Fkaiki, among party members colluding with the C.I.A. in 1962 and 1963 was Saddam Hussein, then a 25-year-old who had fled to Cairo after taking part in a failed assassination of
Kassem in 1958. According to Western scholars, as well as Iraqi refugees and a British human rights organization, the 1963 coup was accompanied by a bloodbath. Using lists of suspected Communists and other leftists provided by the C.I.A., the Baathists systematically murdered untold numbers of Iraq's educated elite -- killings in which Saddam Hussein himself is said to have participated. No one knows the exact toll, but accounts agree that the victims included hundreds of doctors, teachers, technicians, lawyers and other professionals as well as military and political figures".
Other than that some the other 'leaders' that the US has backed previously are:
Shah Rezah Palavi
Agusto Pinochet Ugarte
Rafael Videla
Ngo Dinh Diem
Carlos Castillo Armas
Joaquín Balaguer
Wow such champions of Human rights and liberty nah?
if democracy meets Washington's requirements than here it comes...else if the populace is irking them...they just install a brutal dictator to take care of things...its as simple as that
And people wonder why is there no love lost for the US in these nations... - BBE1965, on 05/19/2009, -0/+5I am not from Texas so whoa yourself. As head of the department of Homeland Security, Chertoff was responsible for ICE (Old INS). There have been multiple reports of deaths caused by medical neglect in ICE facilities in the NY Times and other prominent mainstream newspapers while Chertoff was in charge. Several for profit corporations that own the facilities ICE uses to house immigrants have been successfully sued for the murders of immigrants who died from guard beatings and medical neglect. One corporation even changed its name after a string of rulings did not go in its favor. Several juvenile holding facilities in Texas were closed last year after it came out the kids were being molested/raped.
I don't have the time to go to the archives of the NY Times, LA Times, Texas Observer and other sources to provide you with the internet references. Just look around. You will be appalled and like Chertoff even less than you already do - Rothbardosaurus, on 05/19/2009, -0/+5Pelosi is not a factor in this. Ignore the left-right distractions and prosecute these monsters for war crimes.
- fury420, on 05/18/2009, -0/+4of course I did
my point was that "the bureaucrat's point of view" is clearly incorrect here, and that waterboarding IS torture - mystcnurse, on 05/19/2009, -0/+3You're just kidding, right? Just forgot the /s?
- mystcnurse, on 05/19/2009, -0/+3Don't dig him down. This is not an unreasonable request. Knowledge is power, especially when it is well documented and based on facts.
- VitriolAndAngst, on 05/19/2009, -1/+4Chertoff is Russian for "Devil's Own."
- Obermeister, on 05/19/2009, -0/+2Stubblebine is a joke. He ran psychic experiments for the CIA back in they day - I'm convinced he is just a con artist. He and his wife are involved in a scheme to milk money out of people and scare them about vaccines.
- chevyorange, on 05/18/2009, -1/+3Also, Hetman, he is pro torture as long as it isn't himself either.
- Grolsch, on 05/19/2009, -0/+2Chertoff lol
Черт - californicator, on 05/21/2009, -0/+2Why am I not surprised a guy that looks like Skelator in that He-Man cartoon approved torture?
- JohnnySoftware, on 07/27/2009, -0/+1Not according to Google.
http://translate.google.com/translate_t#ru|en|Cher ... - HappyMonk, on 05/20/2009, -0/+1They should pay for everything
- JohnnySoftware, on 07/27/2009, -0/+1Maybe if less than 11 million people made incursions into the country illegally, there would be more resources for each individual for food, shelter, clothing, transportation, hearings, etc.
If Mexicans and people passing through Mexico could work out among themselves who would be entering the country so as to reduce the net number of illegal immigrants each month then services afforded to each would approve. Sort of an allotment system.
Oh, wait - we already have that. We allow a certain quota of immigrants to move to the US each year so that chaos does not ensue for immigrants, citizens, or visitors.
Ten percent of the social security accounts have payments coming in from the wrong name for the account. Over ten percent of jail populations in some counties far from the border are illegal aliens arrested for crimes unrelated to their immigration. Some prisons are turning away Latino gang members out of fear that that dangerous quarrels will break out between them and other Latino gang members. And we just had a rapid infection of millions of US citizens/visitors by a virus that arrived via a big outbreak in Mexico.
In the last 3 years, 9 US border guards have been killed on duty. The latest one appears to have been shot defending the California border by Mexican gang members who sneak illegal aliens into the US from Mexico. That tends to snag up the system a bit as most countries really do not want professional killers walking back and forth across their border. They do not wear "bad guy" name tags either.
The US is not perfect but please do not blame it for overcrowding or crimes of illegal immigrant upon illegal immigrant. The US does not have the luxury of allowing wide open border. That is proven over and over by people have come from Mexico and countries south of it and committed murders here.
Allowing this to take place anonymously or under fake identities is not in anyone's interest. Preventing that serves to protect illegal aliens as much as anyone else, and if news stories are to be believed then they might help legal and illegal immigrants a little more than anyone else.
Also, I have yet to here complaints from Canadians about the US immigration system. - JohnnySoftware, on 07/27/2009, -0/+1nah, it doesn't mean that
- JohnnySoftware, on 07/27/2009, -0/+1What people have been saying is it is easy to get people to talk, and lie, and probably even do other things they do not want to do if you torture them.
After reading all of the news articles you have probably read or listened to in the news - not opinion pieces or commentaries - but actual, true news stores... do you think that the torture was done to get a truth or a lie?
Torture is usually used to get someone to falsely incriminate themselves or someone else. So is paying bribes to witnesses and informers. That's why we have so many checks and balances in the justice system to week those things out. - inactive, on 05/20/2009, -1/+2I approved too. Make 'em talk!
- strongsad, on 05/18/2009, -1/+1whoa there Tex... I don't like they guy either, but references plz.
- AgeofMastery, on 05/18/2009, -4/+3Take your troofer spam and shove it.
- AFHeretic, on 05/18/2009, -6/+4http://digg.com/politics/40_U_S_intelligence_agent ...
Blows my mind,
General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) – Commanding General of Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), 1981 - 1984. Also commanded U.S. Army’s Intelligence Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career.
Yeah, call him a liar. - Chahrlie5, on 05/19/2009, -3/+1Except Bush isn't the one who went back and tried to prosecute the CIA after approving of it, like Pelosi.
- urbanetruth, on 05/18/2009, -4/+2No. I am anti-torture and pro-due process. But I just find these guys completely reprehensible. It doesn't get much worse than Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
The larger point is about the danger of becoming fixated on waterboarding. There were other -- more widespread -- prisoner abuses that involved dozens if not hundreds of detainees. Waterboarding involved three people. So sometimes it looks like the media is missing the bigger picture here. But I greatly appreciate the original research that was done for this article and applaud the author for his efforts. -
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