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California State University system officially Antichrist

worldnetdaily.com — The California state run university system does away with any pretense that secularism has any neutrality when it comes to Christianity and the Bible. Make no mistake about it, this is a war against the morality taught through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Making Christians lower class citizens is only the first step. It is time for change!

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  • darneveryone, on 07/19/2008, -13/+20Actually, the point is to require that possible admissions learn about scientific facts rather than creationism (oops, I meant creation science... no wait, it's "intelligent" design now). Why should any state recognize Christian propaganda as a valid course?
    • inboxnews, on 07/19/2008, -13/+9"Here's the very university that talks about academic freedom," Carney said. "It's very discriminating. They don't rule against Muslim or Hindu or Jewish (themes) or so forth, only those with a definite Christian theme."

      According to the lawsuit, a variety of textbooks with supplemental perspectives were accepted – just not those with a Christian perspective.

      For example, "Western Civilization: The Jewish Experience" and "Issues in African History" were accepted, but "Christianity's Influence on American History" was rejected. "Feminine Roles in Literature," "Gender, Sexuality, and Identity in Literature" and "Literature of Dissent" were accepted, but "Christianity and Morality in American Literature" was not.

      Most strikingly, "Intro to Buddhism," "Introduction to Jewish Thought," "Women's Studies & Feminism" and "Raza Studies" were deemed acceptable electives, but "Special Providence: American Government" was unacceptable, both as a civics and elective course.
      • kayala, on 07/20/2008, -0/+6Maybe it's just my skeptical nature, but it seems to me that you might want to actually take a look at the content of those textbooks to see why they were accepted or rejected, and it also seems to me that you're selectively naming books that were accepted and rejected to somehow suggest an agenda is being pushed. I find it hard to believe that only the nine textbooks listed were accepted and only the three textbooks listed here rejected. Also consider that "Christianity and Morality in American Literature" does not, at least on the surface, seem like a very reputable text, and its very title supports the false dichotomy of Christian morality or no morality. This false dichotomy is a result of lazy thinking and ideology pushing. I suspect that "Christianity's Influence on American History" was either biased or outright wrong in parts, thus making it unacceptable.
    • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -11/+5"Good night sweet Prince."
    • LadyAmerica, on 07/19/2008, -7/+6Darneveryone said: "the point is to require that possible admissions learn about scientific facts rather than creationism (oops, I meant creation science... no wait, it's "intelligent" design now). Why should any state recognize Christian propaganda as a valid course?" WRONG!

      According to the article, the problem was that the books had Bible verses at the start of each chapter. There was NO problem with the academic content ("facts")…..

      "Burt Carney, an executive with the Association of Christian Schools International, said he's met with officials for the university system, and was told that there was no problem with the actual facts in a BJU physics textbook that was disallowed. In fact, an ACSI report said, UC officials confirmed "that if the Scripture verses that begin each chapter were removed the textbook would likely be approved …" "

      There is no way to get around it, this is blatant anti-Christian discrimination by the state of California.
    • soldout96, on 07/19/2008, -8/+3obviously you didn't read the article clearly. the courses in question were "basic" courses with a christian perspective (maybe a scripture quote) added in because of it being taught in a christian school. christian propaganda? what propaganda do you believe?
    • notbysight, on 07/20/2008, -7/+2Coz all DNA is hard-wired to NOT jump species...it is impossible...it was created by someone much more intelligent than faithful mucking evolutionists, who recently, out of frustration by truth, have invented the "quantum leap" mechanism, as in, POP'innn- presto!!!.. frog to-> squirrel.
      Ppl are free to believe Santa has flying caribou that pull him and sled along at 50knots, 6000 feet up, ....or that some male humans are born with a pervert "gene" so sexual choice is relegated to only another male,... then there, soon may B, the transsexual "blinking red light, tight jean"..man-woman-man-woman-man-woman.... quite surprised that UC schools have not isolated this phenomenon so the transXs can have their very own "minority" status and pooblic support.
      UC professors may soon isolate the "I want to go to Hell", aka, "perishing gene" and prove some ppl evolved from their father Satan and are relegated to lying hatred of the Creator of Satan, and have no choice in their life but to seek, support and applaud their own kind and wannaBs, thereby unwelcoming into UC any of the Creators offensive children in fearful reminder that they will talk about the existence of a choice that can be made to nutralize the "perishing gene" .
      UC..used2, but now doesn't... Do2 progressively decadent non-offensive secular state fun-dead bi-polar separation of body and soul, aka, Kalifornication political correcttness! a contagious viral influEnzzzza of the cerebral cortex do2 separation-of-chhch-n-state and poor diet, and low intake of readily soluable VitaMin B-ible.
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/20/2008, -0/+4I think your "VitaMin B-ible" has something more in the line of drug or alcohol, based upon your post.
      • TheMoniker, on 07/20/2008, -0/+4Gene Ray, is that you?

        (Reference: Gene Ray is the fellow behind the whole, "Time Cube" thing. See here: http://www.timecube.com/ for some colourful writing/reasoning.)
      • kayala, on 07/20/2008, -0/+4Please show me that you are neither scientifically incompetent nor mentally inept; I have seen nothing to suggest any of your qualifications to speak on this matter thus far. You repeat obvious lies and misunderstandings regarding the theory of evolution, and the rest of your post is unintelligible and vacuous.
      • ApokalypseNow, on 07/29/2008, -0/+4"Coz all DNA is hard-wired to NOT jump species...it is impossible"
        Really now? You'd better go tell all those folks that have OBSERVED SPECIATION that they were wrong.

        "it was created by someone much more intelligent than faithful mucking evolutionists,"
        Evidence for this assertion?

        "who recently, out of frustration by truth, have invented the "quantum leap" mechanism, as in, POP'innn- presto!!!.. frog to-> squirrel."
        Such a spontaneous change would actually DISPROVE evolution. Where are you getting your information?

        As for the rest of your garbage, well, it is almost too incoherent to decipher.
    • dorsey47, on 07/21/2008, -2/+1the best reason to believe something is because it is the truth.
  • djmdjm, on 07/19/2008, -15/+17Fairness, equality, justice? No such thing to the sexually immoral, the godless, and the covetous. It's change time, the more they persecute them the more they multiplied. We are beyond just political disagreement and we are on to openly in your face removing the God given rights of the people. On the one hand I am angry but on the other I just want to chuckle. Do these people who have gone way beyond this in Canada and Europe and Brazil think they will just be able to squash those who follow God? Do they even comprehend that there are over a hundred thousand people a day meeting Jesus for the first time? It's kind of like the gas prices, there will be a tipping point where those who don't pay attention will all of a sudden wake out of their sleep. They may not be believers but they sure as heck will know which group stands for freedom and which stands for tyranny and oppression. Beyond all this, what are they going to do when God arises, and takes sides on the issue.

    Psalms 2 Why do the godless rage, and the people imagine a useless thing? The politicians of California take their stand, and the bureaucrats take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands (of morality that restrain us), and cast away their cords (their principles that bind us) He that sits in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his anger , and terrify them in wrath......

    Back to the basics - Pray, fast, preach, win souls, teach, be the light, be the salt, get involved in politics, secure your freedoms. Oh, and don't think that you will not have to defeat politically or by other means the radical 20% who will never yield to what right. You win the 80% affections, you defeat the 20%. There is not any other way it is done.
    • notbysight, on 07/19/2008, -7/+6Then shall he speak unto them in his anger , and terrify them in wrath......
      It's on its way and approaching at approx 36Kmpsec...it will "..shake terribly the earth."
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -6/+2Whereas your appraisal is impressive, the fact that the earth occaisonally "flips on it's access" will actually make the earth stumble like a drunkard.

        Apophis, (or like body)- (probably) will impact a myiad of objects in the Kuiper belt, or possible impact with Mars in another decade-

        Some celestial body will appear within my children's youth, and give men corornaries on mainstreet to be sure- but like the dissertation in Revelation reads: oh Lucifer how thou art FALLEN, makes me think Mars, (in astrology: is considered the "lesser malnevolent", behind Saturn)- also follows a trailing orbit, (conducive for this theory)

        One thing is for CERTAIN, this IS the MOST EXCITING TIME IN HUMAN HISTORY, TO BE ALIVE.
      • StaticThunder, on 07/21/2008, -0/+3Just like last year. Just like 50 years ago. Just like 100 years ago.

        COME OFF IT ALREADY. HE'S NOT COMING BACK.
    • darneveryone, on 07/19/2008, -2/+9"Do they even comprehend that there are over a hundred thousand people a day meeting Jesus for the first time?"

      And yet in developed countries, the number of nonbelievers is skyrocketing. Once people are educated better, they will realize that all religions are the same (lies).
      • djmdjm, on 07/19/2008, -7/+4Well there is a reason that you do not see nor ever have seen mass voluntary conversion from the "other religions." Simply because God bears witness of the truth (the Bible) personally and people respond when God touches them. That's the key of EvangelicalPentecostal success. You would be wrong about all developing countries also, the USA totally bucks that trend because the Gospel actually gets preached here. How about Latin America, 99% CatholicPagan 50 years ago, then as that type of darkness tends to do, communism is turned to. Then out of nowhere in a matter of a few decades 1/3 of the population becomes evangelicalPentecostal Bible thumping Christians. How do you account for that? Why not Islam or Mormonism or Buddhism of any other ism. Why is it that only the gospel of Jesus Christ can produce this type of mass conversion. There are three Assembly of God Churches in Sao Paulo Brazil that have more people go to them on a Sunday than all of the Assembly of God Churches in North America. (There are dozens if not hundreds of AG mega churches in north America) This in a place (Brazil) that would murder people who became an evangelical 50 years ago. Amazing isn't it? Yet you say there is no proof. Why don't you make the mistake that hundreds of other atheists and agnostics have made, go and study the Bible to prove it wrong.
      • darneveryone, on 07/19/2008, -2/+8If you were intelligent enough to be able to read, you would have noticed that I said "developed," not "developing." Christianity is on its way out in Europe, Canada, and in the long run, also in the U.S. Nonbelievers are the fastest-growing religious group in America. Even some evangelical groups, like the Southern Baptists, are beginning to decline. You may be able to convert millions of uneducated people in the Third World, but once they learn to think critically, as people in the West are doing, they will reject religion entirely.
      • djmdjm, on 07/19/2008, -7/+2I think, that those from these "developing" countries would disagree with your little racist remark about their thinking skills. Furthermore, they would not submit themselves to your "superior" racial stock, seeings how they know a fool when they see one.
        Europe is Catholic and Protestant Catholic. Which is running at about an 8%-11% decline per year, mostly because it is bogus. Furthermore most of that Catholicism and Protestant Catholicism is state run which is irreconcilable with Biblical Christianity and God will not participate in their efforts to do anything, actually he is against them. I'll skip what God is doing in Europe for now, suffices to say though, the real is growing why the fake is declining.
        Then there is this "decline" in the USA you speak of. You may speak out of what you think is consensus type knowledge, but you don't study these things. The largest evangelical Pentecostal Churches in America in the 50's had about 500 members and there was only a handful of those. Now there are thousands of "Mega" churches defined as having 2000 members or more. There are dozens that have well over ten thousand members. That is just a small picture of what is going on though. I could spend days writing about the effect that so many coming to Christ in the USA has had in the nations statistics.
        How about South Korea? 3rd world? 2nd world? Not quite, fully "developed" One AG church has about a million members, it started two other ones that have about 250000 members each. I hardly think these Koreans would bow to your "thoughtful moral superiority."



      • djmdjm, on 07/19/2008, -7/+2This part didn't make it in my last digg:
        You don't study these things, nor do you have a grasp on the history of the world to know what real followers of Christ have produced in the world verses those who are merely "cultural Christian." Those who are Christians the same way that a Muslim is a Muslim or a Buddhist is a Buddhist. They all just believe something. That is a completely different scenario than being reconciled to God, and to have him come live inside of you. One day your like everyone else, the next day everything is new and there is a whole new universe to discover. Want to know how?
      • StaticThunder, on 07/21/2008, -1/+5No. Not interested in wasting my time with ignorant superstitions and *****, or associating with self-righteous holier than thou asses.
      • Phyraxus, on 07/21/2008, -1/+5Djmdjm, you racist bastard, they can't think critically because they are uneducated, not because they aren't white, KKK nazi bastard.
      • djmdjm, on 07/21/2008, -1/+1I was not referring to their color, I was referring to your inferance that these folks criticall thinking skills are somewhat beneath your "western Imperialistic" thinking skills. You really don't see what you said do you? Let me try to clear it up for you. What group of college students at Ivy league collages for instance dominate the Christian outreach to the other college students? It would be the Asians. Now they also happen to be in the highest percentile grade wise in American Colleges. Now how do you think they would react to your statement about their nations skills? Probably with a bit of love and understanding. But for obvious reasons, they might think it below their dignity to answer you with reality.
        I am sorry Phyraxus, but your thinking skills are nothing in compared to the people who founded this nation, it's not off subject. Their main source of study or shall I say the thing which all their study revolved around from grade school to college was the Bible. To enter the colleges of their day you had to read & write Greek Latin and Hebrew. There was not even such a thing as a non Christan college.
    • kayala, on 07/20/2008, -1/+8Who the hell cares what you personally think is "sexually immoral"? Your unsatisfied partner, perhaps, but who else? I've seen condemnation after condemnation of the "homosexual lifestyle" and "sexual immorality", but I've not yet seen a decent reason why that should mean anything.
    • StaticThunder, on 07/20/2008, -1/+8***** you djmdjm, you self righteous ass. You have no inside access to the truth and yet you presume to tell us what is real and what is not. Screw your supposed insight.
  • wethepeople1, on 07/19/2008, -14/+151) First of all we need to NAME these "UC officials" so we can attach their names to their faces.......2) Then we demand that they start telling every other religion the same thing, starting with the Muslims........but with the Muslims they MUST inform them in person. That should lay this all to rest.
  • notbysight, on 07/19/2008, -10/+9Officals of UC may be concerned about future dwindling of Pandemonium and Feelings based education ...and shortage of diverse/perverse campus clubs membership if there is a rise in Constitutional/Christian enrollment.
  • JimmySpaza, on 07/19/2008, -14/+18We're not talking about purely religious texts or classes. We're talking about science, history, and English subjects taught with a Christian perspective. The secular basics of these subjects are still taught but with addendums and conclusions that are not secular in a mandatory fashion.

    What this exposes is not a religious neutrality stance by these academic elitists, but rather a decidely anti-Christian position where ALL THINGS Christian are deemed unacceptable even when such has nothing to do with the basics of what was taught.

    The anti-Christian attitudes of these intellectually arrogant bureaucrats has been exposed for all to see.
    • AThoughtOrTwo, on 07/19/2008, -5/+11And has been going on for years in many states in this Union, tho most are not so brazenly discriminatory about it. I am aware of three states that do this same thing. So even if you DON'T live in California - check out what your local university does.
    • darneveryone, on 07/19/2008, -3/+5Christianity has had such a stranglehold on Western thought for so long, that in my opinion, a decidedly anti-Christian position is necessary. Christian "leaders" are committing fraud by promising rewards that don't exist and profiting off of people's fear of death. They ought to be prosecuted.
      • Orwell007, on 07/19/2008, -5/+4They will be. Our Creator promised that we will all come forward and stand trial. I hope I am one of the few who are found guilty.
      • LadyAmerica, on 07/19/2008, -6/+5@darn... Christian "stranglehold on Western thought" you say?

        Let's see...
        feed the hungry
        clothe the naked
        provide for orphans
        care for widows
        house the homeless
        heal the sick
        free the slaves
        educate the masses
        promote freedom
        etc, etc...

      • kayala, on 07/20/2008, -1/+7Adding to that list, Miss America:
        Oppose good science
        Strip women of their reproductive rights
        On second thought, strip women of all their rights; after all, they're just baby makers and cooks!
        Strip gays of their right to marry
        Impose one religion, Christianity of an undecided denomination, on the entire country
        Criminalize premarital sex, or any nonprocreative sex outside of marriage
        Am I missing any?
        Man, if you Christians (you Christians, not the decent ones who mind their own business) would go back to feeding the hungry and clothing the naked, I think you'd have a lot better reputation. You might even not be considered self-righteous busybodies anymore!
    • Phyraxus, on 07/21/2008, -0/+5"We're talking about science, history, and English subjects taught with a Christian perspective"

      christian perspective = ignorance and bigotry

      Nice euphemism though.

      It intelligence isn't "anti-christian" but anti-stupidity, so I can see how you got the two confused.
  • goldenrule4, on 07/19/2008, -12/+13This comes from the state that promotes "multiculturalism" everything goes, unless of course it has anything to do with christianity. The christians are intolerant! they say, when in reality is the other way around 100% of the time. I hope Kalifornia is the first place Sharia law is implemented, they'll know what "tolerance" is really all about.
    • AThoughtOrTwo, on 07/19/2008, -2/+7And I PRAY every day that your 'hope' does NOT materialize. Please, GOD, NO WHERE in these UNITED STATES - no matter HOW MUCH they may seem to deserve it!
    • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -1/+3You might be a fundamentalist if...
      You think Islam is a demonic belief system, yet it is even closer to Christianity than Mormonism and Jehovah's Witness(ism)

      http://digg.com/general_sciences/Signs_You_re_a_Fu ...

      • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -4/+2'cept for that whole moon-god shift-
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -4/+2Sure ASSuming, mysogeny,genocide,(God as a liar), and God (again as a liar).

        You might be a fool, if you spend time telling the Holy, that God doesn't exist.... which brings us back to Einstein's definition of INSANITY, (cue: Ruth Buzzy).

        Primary example today, 'Evilena'-

        that may be the example tomorrow aswell...
      • Evilena, on 07/20/2008, -1/+3Clearly one of the two of us is an insane fool. Reality is not the same for us.
        If I sound as crazy to you as you do to me, I sure hope I am the sane one.
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/20/2008, -1/+2@ Evilena "Hope in one hand, defecate in the other- now you tell me which fills-up first Ma'am.
  • SLancaster, on 07/19/2008, -10/+12First, if I am a California resident I would be upset that an institution that is supported by my tax dollars is denying Californians admission by violating their Frist Amendment rights. Secondly, if they deny an Education to a student based on their Christian Education (viewpoint of their text), then they need to scrutinize more closely their foreign students from Africa and the Middle East. Most well to do Africans seend their children to private Christian schools and most Muslim students in the Middle East are taught exclusively from an Islamic perspective. And lastly, if the Christian student has a high enough entrance test scores (SAT or ACT), what does it really matter?
    • AThoughtOrTwo, on 07/19/2008, -2/+4But, according to the article - that needs to be the TOP 2 or 3 percent. I know Christians score HIGH but that is the HIGHEST of the HIGH!

      IF a student does not have enough HS credits - they are sometimes denied admissions. Or their admission is delayed by up to a year.
    • SQLDigger, on 07/19/2008, -2/+6First, you would be right. I'm a graduate of the UC system, and my first two years of high school were based on the curriculum they are trying to ban. This is ridiculous, and I am outraged by such arrogance. The B.S. in math they gave me stands as a bit of a counterpoint to any arguments that said curriculum doesn't adequately enable one to cope with communist history professors, femi-nazi psych teachers, and neurotic English professors who like throwing erasers to make a point. Luckily, I relished the experience, if not the actual knowledge, which, at least in liberal arts classes, was much more sparse than the instructor's opinions on a subject. I did have a few profs I liked (even some of the nutty ones). But I digress.

      As to your last point, from the first article WND posted:

      'Students from secular schools, however, "with a 3.5 GPA whose best SAT II scores are merely in the bottom eight percent … for Writing, the bottom one percent … for Math Level II, and the bottom five percent … for Chemistry would need only a 420 out of 1600 on the SAT I…"'

      So, apparently, as long as they've had a broad, secular education, but clearly don't comprehend anything of what they're being told, it's all good in the `hood. Maybe if U.C. could actually provide some statistics to indicate that products of such curricula are more deficient than the products of its fine, gang-ridden secular indoctrination grounds, I might believe they adhere to the "modern standards of scientific discourse" they think they uphold.

      Now if you'll excuse me, I need to find my moral outrage pen, and throw some of it in the UC's direction.
  • Temlakos, on 07/19/2008, -10/+10To all scoffers at creation science: First, the article clearly established that Christianity is the only religious tradition deemed unacceptable by the UC system. Second, the precepts of uniformitarianism/abiogenesis/macroevolution are no more "scientific" than the proposition that the Holy Bible is an Accurate Historical Record on which an origins scientist may rely for insight. In fact, those precepts are even less scientific, because they violate Occam's Razor and the Law of Averages.
    • darneveryone, on 07/19/2008, -3/+7Evolution does not violate Occam's Razor. It is a series of very small changes. The existence of a god more complex than his creation actually violates Occam's Razor more, since any proposed supreme being must be immensely complex and the creation of this supreme being himself is unexplained.
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -5/+4God's name is YWWH.
      • StaticThunder, on 07/21/2008, -0/+3No, your God's name is YHWH, assuming it can even be spelled: the Jews don't even try because they respect the name so much. From the Hebrew, as translated into either English, Dutch, French or German. You can't even spell His name, you ass. For all the importance you put on HIM, you can't even get the basics right.

        You're pathetic. You lecture darneveryone on the name, and you can't even get it right.

        http://www.hiscovenantministries.org/yhwh.htm
    • kayala, on 07/20/2008, -0/+6You do not understand science. I'm disappointed. We scoff at "creation science" because it is lower than pseudoscience, a joke, religion in a cheap tux pretending to be science. Abiogenesis and evolution have mountains of evidence to their respective names, and "creation science" has not an iota. I'm sorry that you're too uneducated to understand the simple facts of the matter, but your ineptitude disqualifies you from speaking on the topic.
    • StaticThunder, on 07/20/2008, -0/+7Creation science is an oxymoron and deserves to be ridiculed, as does anyone who buys its arguments.
    • ApokalypseNow, on 07/29/2008, -0/+4Ockham's Razor does not say that the simplest explanation should be favored. It says that entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity (non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem). In other words, new principles should not be invoked if existing principles already provide an explanation. If, however, the simpler explanation does not cover all the details, then additional "entities" are necessary.

      Creationism is not an explanation. An explanation tells why something is one way instead of an alternative way. But creationism does not rule out any alternatives, since a creator God could have done anything. Because of this, creationism adds nothing to any argument. Thus, creationism is an unnecessary entity and, by Ockham's Razor, should be eliminated.
  • janknepper, on 07/19/2008, -10/+9The requirement of UC are ridiculous. Come on! If they wanted to make sure students know what is required to successfully start and complete the college all they would have to do is give them an entrance exam. Since the people running UC obviously have an other agenda none of them has even brought this up. Knowing this I would send my kids (if I had any) across country or to EU to get a decent education.

    http://www.whoisyourcreator.com/
    • AThoughtOrTwo, on 07/19/2008, -5/+2You would send you precious child to the heathen land of the EU?
      • janknepper, on 07/20/2008, -2/+1Actually... I am originally from there (US citizen since August 2007) and although public schools are disgusting, I never went to any of those.
        Considering the fact that I know that my child would be eligible for (private) Christian education there it truly is not such a bad idea.
        http://www.gsr.nl/
        http://www.greijdanus.nl/
        etc. If you want more I have a whole list... ;-)
        Additionally they might learn there what a much more advanced secular society is about and understand better why I fight it as much.
    • eir574, on 07/20/2008, -2/+5If you'd consulted a source other than WND, you'd know that entrance exams (in the form of SAT II subject exams) are in fact an alternative to taking an approved course.
      • janknepper, on 07/26/2008, -1/+1I am aware of SATs.
        That was not the point.
        If any school required specifics for entrance and entrance test/exam generally is the solution.
  • Harvester1, on 07/19/2008, -9/+11It would appear that colleges are no longer about the acquisition of knowledge that will allow young people to get decent jobs and live better lives, but about affecting a social change--the weaning away of young people from the standards and faith of earlier generations. Since the government cannot (yet) stop parents from raising their children to respect Scriptural principles, the state-run colleges have begun their own crusade to make our children more viable members of the New World Order (or as we now refer to it, the Global Communtity). It is astounding when one considers that our oldest universities were founded to ensure that there would be enough well-educated young people with a thorough grounding in the Bible to continue our nation's moral heritage.
    • AThoughtOrTwo, on 07/19/2008, -5/+9It may sound 'astounding' but has been going on for at least 40 years now.

      I believe that this is also an attack on homeschooling. Which is many times attached to a local Christian school rather than the local Public school. And one of the reasons? Money - the Public school gets NO MONEY for those attending Christian school.
  • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -11/+5HOW DO CHRISTIANS KNOW THAT THIER FAITH IS TRUE, AND REAL-???????

    BECAUSE EVERY PAGAN PIE-HOLE ON EARTH SCREAMS DAILY THAT WE MUST BE WRONG, MUST BE QUIET, MUST BE MADE INFERIOR.

    We know before the LIVING GOD, and ALL MEN OF EARTH- that we are right, because ALL THE DAMNED- SAY WE ARE WRONG.

    Everyone's entitled to an opinion...
    • notbysight, on 07/19/2008, -4/+6A loose paraphrase of Jesus, (whom they hated without a cause)..."If they hated Me, they will hate you also"
      • StaticThunder, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2Another self fulfilling prophecy. If you're a jerk, they will hate you ... because you're a jerk.
    • cpsteinmetz, on 07/19/2008, -4/+7And like anuses, everyone has one, and they all stink.

      In your case, shouting only makes yours stink more.
      • MoniqueMoniCat, on 07/19/2008, -7/+5no cpsteinmetz, you are incorrect. here's easy proof: take the challenge and ASK GOD HIMSELF. we don't own the rights, you can know too.

        that is IF YOU HAVE THE BALLS that you try to act like you do.

        yep, challenged by a chick, a bible thumper, one with an anus just like you.

        so what are you waiting for? ASK GOD TO SHOW YOU IF HE'S REALLY REAL. ASK LIKE YOU MEAN IT AND YOU MY FRIEND WILL GET YOUR ANSWER.

        LOOK ME UP WHEN YOU DO. I'D LIKE TO HEAR ALL ABOUT IT.
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -2/+8"ASK GOD TO SHOW YOU IF HE'S REALLY REAL. ASK LIKE YOU MEAN IT AND YOU MY FRIEND WILL GET YOUR ANSWER."

        Ok. Nothing happened.
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -7/+3refer to prior post
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -7/+3As noted: if you're a pagan, and disapprove of what i write, (you only VERIFY my VERACITY).

        *(clears throat) "BAMM !!"
      • Evilena, on 07/20/2008, -1/+8Scientists are far more powerful than pagans.
      • ieee, on 07/20/2008, -1/+9Scientists can actually make things happen
      • KJeffV, on 07/20/2008, -3/+2"Scientists are far more powerful than pagans."
        And those who ARE pagans are . . . ?

        "Scientists can actually make things happen."
        Yup. Many are like farmers: They're outstanding in their fields.
      • StaticThunder, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3Unlike the religious, who are fertilizing the fields with their words.
      • KJeffV, on 07/25/2008, -1/+1...not to mention their blood.
    • MoniqueMoniCat, on 07/19/2008, -8/+5oops solgaard, i accentally undug you. YES YOU ARE RIGHT.

      GIVE GLORY TO GOD WHO MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH AND HIS CREATION, THE BEAUTIFUL MOUNTAINS, THE ANIMALS, ALL SO AWESOME.

      I BOW BEFORE THE AWESOMENESS OF THE TRUE AND LIVING GOD FOREVER.

      LET US REJOICE ! WE ARE IN THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE - LET US PROCLAIM THE GLORY OF GOD TO MEN EVERYWHERE, ESPECIALLY ON THE DIGG BLOGS !!!!!!!!

      AWESOME!
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -6/+3Git your RAGE "on" girl.
      • KJeffV, on 07/20/2008, -3/+1"[I]f you've mistakenly Dugg or buried a comment by clicking the thumbs up or thumbs down button f/some particular comment, simply click the opposite button once, and your initial vote will be removed." — the Digg staph (infection)
    • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -8/+2D-A-M-N, God gives me funny-stuff for sure.
    • StaticThunder, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3Where are my 500 names of people who saw Christ alive after the crucifixion? I'm waiting Solgaard.
  • flip2trip, on 07/19/2008, -9/+13I'd say it's just about time for Christians to get out of California and shake the dust from off their feet. Let the rest be turned over to their base minds and roll in their own filth which they have happily created.
    • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -4/+9I think its about time for them to get out of Florida also. We already have the Scientology headquarters to deal with. Go bother someone else with your zombie worship and homophobia.
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -9/+5zombie denotes death. Of ALL, approximately 836,000+ only ONE ver claimed to be ALIVE.

        That ONE is the LIVING GOD, (go figure).

        Also, we "fear" no man on earth, (so obviously we are not '*****-phobes" either.

        Perhaps you simply enjoy displaying your ignorance...
      • flip2trip, on 07/19/2008, -9/+5Ahh the atheist retort. Is this the same Florida that can't get it's citizens to punch a voting card right or neglects their own election rules and has their primary votes cast upon the waters?

        Tell me atheist, if it bothers you so much, why are you here on this thread? Surely there are better things you could be doing than giving "witty" repartee to all us "zombie" worshipers. Perhaps you could find some 4 year olds and teach them how to use a condom.
      • djmdjm, on 07/19/2008, -5/+6I did that thirteen years ago along with tens of thousands of others. I didn't do it for the reason you are advocating, but it was in the back of my mind. I now realize that it was a mistake, because when Christians leave the state goes to hell and this is the type of thing that results. So the answer to the problem is not the easy one, pack up and leave, although CA and some other states may deserve the results that will transpire without the preserving influence of Christians. You have to look at it this way though. Did we deserve what Christ did for us! Nor did we deserve what his followers did for us, the suffering of hundreds of millions over the 1700 years that eventually resulted in this nation and others that for the first time in all of history have freedom. We should not be contemplating allowing the wicked to destroy what was paid for with the blood of the lamb and hundreds of millions of his followers. Even though none of us really deserve the blessing we have due to Christian principles that brought about this form of Government.
    • DuggDowner, on 07/19/2008, -2/+7Can you please get out of all of America?
      • flip2trip, on 07/19/2008, -7/+2You first, there's the door------------------------------>
      • THEROD54, on 07/19/2008, -5/+3OOOHHHHH DON"T WORRY DD. WILL BE LEAVING SOON ENOUGH.
      • StaticThunder, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3Ask Christ to hurry up then, for the son of the almighty he's sure slow.
    • SQLDigger, on 07/19/2008, -7/+2Unfortunately, flip, that's not a choice everyone has. I can think of a wide variety of reasons to despise the California I live in - the bloated and immoral government, the fake people, the greed and stupidity that leads to a massive recession every 10 or 15 years. But it really boils down to where God has put you, and your willingness to accept His direction (something I struggle with on many levels). Certainly some are called, for the sake of their family's sanity, to relocate, either within the state or out of it. But many are called to serve here as well, and I thank God for them, or I likely would have become yet another cynical victim of my own secular post-high school education.
      • flip2trip, on 07/20/2008, -2/+2Well put. I have a tendency to overreact sometimes mainly because I know that what happens in Cali usually spreads to the rest of the country.

        Keep fighting the good fight SQL! We'll keep you and the other Christians in Cali in our prayers, and who knows, God may raise California out of the ashes like a Phoenix! Revival often happens in those areas where God is needed the most!!
    • StaticThunder, on 07/20/2008, -1/+4Good. Leave.
  • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -5/+11Solgaard knows he right because of the because of the vast number of people that are always telling him that he is wrong.
    • soofan, on 07/19/2008, -10/+5actually it is the vast minority of people telling him he's wrong. That minority has the loudest voice because the majority is quietly going on with their lives while losing their freedom.
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -4/+8That not what he thinks. You two need to get your story straight and stop contradicting each other like that.
      • kayala, on 07/20/2008, -0/+6Oh, shut up. You're not losing an ounce of your freedom, so you can quit the pious whining. You don't have some right to be protected from things that you don't like, and you don't have the right to deny others their rights.
    • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -10/+3Well, certainly i have met millions of pagans, (and certainly they all thought i was wrong).

      But the best compliments i ever got in my whole-life were from pagans aswell, (go figure).
      • KJeffV, on 07/19/2008, -7/+6...probably none of them w/their dog collars on too tight, tho, I suspect.
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -5/+3lol, you're killin' me-stop.

        (1) "i envy your "black and white" appraisals, you're NEVER CONFUSED."

        (2) (by a pagan 4 year-old) "Are you God?"
  • 10QGZus, on 07/19/2008, -11/+12The UC system here in California has always been a bastion of liberal thought. The intolerance of the UC system is well known. They will accept students from private schools that have a liberal bent, even kids from Muslim schools, but not Christian. It is the same hypocritical double standard that follows Christians everywhere.

    Find another school for your children. They will be better off in the long run.
  • NGeorgiaboy, on 07/19/2008, -10/+13Entrance into an institution of higher learning has always been based on academic qualifications, not what you believe. Seems like California really is earning the title of "The land of fruits and nuts." They are into mind control now - you either believe what we believe or you're excluded. Or - maybe it's a case of jealousy and face-saving, like the National Spelling Bee excluding Christian home-schoolers because they always win. The Christian students are adversely affecting the college's test curves LOL.
    • eveslegacy, on 07/19/2008, -8/+10It's also hard for a professor to handle a student who has a different point of view and is smarter than him/her, because of their superior Christian school education, which taught them how to reason - not be a robot
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -9/+6"because of their superior Christian school education, which taught them how to reason."
        Thats a joke right?

        You might be a fundamentalist if...
        You believe that your pastor is a better authority of science than an actual scientist.
        http://digg.com/general_sciences/Signs_You_re_a_Fu ...
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -6/+9You might be a pagan, (if you believe a monkey is your uncle).
      • KJeffV, on 07/19/2008, -6/+6"...cough . . . choke . . . sputter...."
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -4/+5"You might be a pagan, (if you believe a monkey is your uncle)."

        Religious people believe all sorts of crazy things.
        At least no evolutionary scientists think that.
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/20/2008, -4/+5lol, "evolution" is a crutch for people who can't handle life the way it REALLY IS.
      • kayala, on 07/20/2008, -3/+3No, dear, the word you're looking for is religion. I'm sorry that you're too mentally inept to understand evolution, but your denial of the facts does not change the facts. Fail.
      • ApokalypseNow, on 07/29/2008, -1/+2Religion is the comforting crutch. Science requires that one take the steps to learn to live within evidence-based reality.
  • eveslegacy, on 07/19/2008, -10/+11Totally unconstitutional. I lived in CA for most of my life, but left to live in a non-socialist state. The separation of church and state was intended that the state would not dictate what the church taught. By discriminating against textbooks that have a Christian point of view, the People's Republic of California is doing just that. I am dumfounded that the elistist socialist/communist "educators" have gone this far - no I'm not. It's the anti-Christian bias that these officials have and they want to keep those with a different viewpoint out the universities, especially since the professors can't always impose their personal beliefs on these students. They will exclude the Christian schools, yet happily accept the tax money that the Christian parents pay that support these universities. These are tax-supported institutions, they do not have the right to discriminate based on religion. Period. And there are plenty of Christian parents in CA. The mainstream media may not want you to know that and they will squash any feedback from what is probably the majority of Californians, but they are there and the politicians better watch out - they won't be beaten down forever.
    • AThoughtOrTwo, on 07/19/2008, -5/+6Kalifornia's stand on homeschooling being one of those ways they want to 'squash' Christian parents.
  • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -6/+13You might be a fundamentalist if...
    You think banning mandatory prayer in public schools is a form of persecution.
    http://digg.com/general_sciences/Signs_You_re_a_Fu ...
    • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -11/+7You might be a pagan, if a "myth" bothers you as much as Christianity, bothers you.
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -5/+5I am a not a pagan. Other religions are stupid also.
      • ieee, on 07/19/2008, -4/+2That comment almost gave me an orgasm. Thank You!
      • flip2trip, on 07/20/2008, -3/+4Evilena I hate to tell you but there really isn't a consensus on the meaning of the word pagan. It has been used to label various religions down through the centuries as well as to label those who were not believers in Christ. So SOLGAARD's use of the word is technically correct.

        From the online dictionary---
        pa·gan (pgn)
        n.
        1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
        2. One who has no religion.
        3. A non-Christian.
        4. A hedonist.
        5. A Neo-Pagan.
    • KJeffV, on 07/19/2008, -10/+8Is there an echo in here . . . here . . . here?
    • flip2trip, on 07/19/2008, -10/+8Mandatory prayer? You're funny.
    • LadyAmerica, on 07/19/2008, -10/+9Evilone, Christians are not pushing "mandatory" prayer in public schools. But many of us believe that banning voluntary prayer is, indeed, persecution.

      When I was in public school in the US, we had student-led Bible readings and prayer every day. We were taught to respect ourselves and others, and we learned duty, honor, and patriotism. No one was forced to participate, and no one was harmed by our daily acknowledgement of God. In fact things were MUCH better - unlike today, there were no school shootings, teen pregnancy was very rare. Kids actually wanted to learn, they were respectful, and behaved in class. And, again unlike today, they actually LEARNED - logic, math, science, history, foreign languages, reading, writing, etc.!

      Today, many kids can't read, can't do simple math, can't write a coherent sentence, and know NO history. They can't be taught traditional values, but are, instead, taught moral relativism (i.e. everything is "ok" (except Judeo-Christian morality and belief).). Their egos are boosted high with bogus "self esteem" and they know how to put on condoms. They have sex at earlier and earlier ages, curse their classmates and teachers, assault other students and sometimes even teachers. They laze around and refuse to do their schoolwork or homework, then figure they deserve good grades for no effort. (I know whereof I speak – I hear what teachers face from my kids, 3 of which are public school teachers.)

      God out - condoms, violence, guns, sex in. Great, isn't it?!?!?!?
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -4/+5"In fact things were MUCH better - unlike today"
        Then how do you explain todays lower crime rates?
      • rightwingattila, on 07/19/2008, -7/+7Lower crime rates today??? You must be a product of the indoctrination public school system. Please state where these statistics can be found!
      • LadyAmerica, on 07/19/2008, -6/+6When I was in school there were NO reports of perverts molesting children, rape was extremely rare, murder was rare, theft was even infrequent. A child could play alone outside all day, walk in the woods, ride your bike alone to the store & to school, etc, etc. NO DANGER - no one would harm you. (I know, as I did all of these things.) In fact, folks would help you and make sure you were ok. Today, it's open season on our kids - rape, murder, kidnapping, etc. Can't dare let them out alone.

        Unlike today, people still had morals and ethics at that time. And people cared about each other, especially the kids.
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/20/2008, -3/+7LadyAmerica stated: "When I was in school there were NO reports of perverts molesting children, rape was extremely rare, murder was rare, theft was even infrequent."
        Depending upon when you were in school, you are correct; there were *no* reports. The crimes were there, there just wasn't an internet available with websites to bring you information from all over the world. So, if you would care to check; 1) perverts were molesting children - it was just hidden by custom and law, 2) rape was "rare" because it wasn't reported or prosecuted - again hidden by custom and law, 3) murder was happening all the time - you just weren't bombarded with it all day long on TV or radio or the WWW.
        She also stated: "we had student-led Bible readings and prayer every day.... No one was forced to participate, and no one was harmed by our daily acknowledgement of God." No, you had teacher led readings and prayer, children were forced to participate (by custom and authority) and *you* didn't think that violating the Constitution and entangling the state with religion hurt anyone.
        And then, "In fact things were MUCH better - unlike today, there were no school shootings, teen pregnancy was very rare." Girls still got pregnant, they just visited 'an aunt in Florida.' Check out the statistics on teen pregnancy - you will be surprised.
        Let's see, the first school shooting was in 1988 (during Reagan's presidency). The first school bombing in the U.S. took place in 1895. "The worst instance of school violence in U.S. history" took place in 1927.
        So just when did you go to school - when things were so much better?
      • Evilena, on 07/20/2008, -3/+6Here are the statistics right from the US Department of Justice website where my indoctrination public school system taught me they would be.
        http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/teens.htm#oa ...
      • rightwingattila, on 07/20/2008, -6/+6Nice try. You began at 1976. Try this one that begins at 1950 and look closely at when the rise began, the mid 60's. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/hmrt.htm
        It was 1963: School District of Abington Township, Pennsylvania v. Shempp et al. and Murray v. Curlett when prayer was banned in public schools. Within a dozen years the rate DOUBLED!
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/28/2008, -1/+1Nice try, but try this:
        http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/hmrt.htm
        Note those high rates in the 1930's - when Christian entanglement with education and society was as strong as you could imagine - and prayer was everywhere in the public schools.
        Some time, you should look up the term
        "spurious relationship" so you don't continue to embarrass yourself.
    • rightwingattila, on 07/19/2008, -10/+8Amen LadyAmerica! Those of us who are old enough have witnessed the changes in this country since we allowed the elites to kick God out of public school. The differences are staggering and we continue to witness the decline of this once great nation.
      • DuggDowner, on 07/20/2008, -4/+7Yah I'm sure you miss the days where schools kept Jesus in and coloreds out. Fortunately for the rest of us America no longer represents your twisted ideals.
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/29/2008, -0/+3If the elites could "kick God out of public school," then those elites must be stronger than your 'God'. What kind of 'God' do you worship anyway?

  • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -8/+6EVERYONE'S 'ENTITLED' TO AN OPINION.

    EXCEPT if you voice that pagans might be sinners, (just like Christians)- and the result of said transgression, may- (in fact) warrant eternal darkness, silence, and torment.
    OR, that the ONLY way to avaoid such an ETERNAL FATE, is to believe that the GUY who INSTITUTED such a policy, also SACRIFICED HIS-OWN SON- for OUR TRANGRESSIONS- that we, (all sinners) might ENJOY eternal life.

    Going to hell hasn't killed anyone ever, (you have to be DI-ING to get there).
    • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -2/+6I asked these before with no answer...
      If God is all powerful, why did he have to sacrifice his son for our transgressions? If God could have forgiven us anyway, how does the death of Jesus have any significance whatsoever?
      • KJeffV, on 07/19/2008, -7/+5You are assuming that an all-powerful God would create automatons simply b/c He could. What would that prove?

        Have you ever noticed young males, driving "tuner cars" w/coffee can mufflers & plenty of decals, racing around everywhere, making lots of noise and grabbing attention? Have you ever noticed real hot-rodders doing the same?
      • flip2trip, on 07/19/2008, -7/+7"If God is all powerful, why did he have to sacrifice his son for our transgressions?"

        He didn't have to, He chose to for our sake.

        "If God could have forgiven us anyway, how does the death of Jesus have any significance whatsoever?"

        God can't just forgive us on a whim this would be going against His Holy nature. The wages of sin is death. There always has to be a sacrifice offered for the atonement of sin. Jesus came to be a substitutional sacrifice for all men. Through faith in Jesus our sins are forgiven and we can have relationship with the Father because of Jesus' sacrifice.
      • notbysight, on 07/19/2008, -7/+6After U seriously read the entire Word of God, I B happy to discuss these questions with U...but I know I wont need to coz U will find those simple answers while reading.
        Here is a question 4 U: If God knows all your tots, and He knows that some are against Him, what is preventing Him from destroying U here and now? HInt: it is the same attribute that will answer your quests.
        more hints:
        Jesus said .."I and my Father are one"..."he who has seen Me has seen the Father"...." I came from the Father"...
        What is the Greatest commandment???..find Jesus answer in the Gospels...after U find that answer...then read 1Corinthians chap. 13....then cap it off with Epistle of 1John and you're done.
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -2/+6"God can't just forgive us on a whim this would be going against His Holy nature."
        Are you saying that God isn't powerful enough to go against his holy nature or that he doesn't want to?
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -2/+6"You are assuming that an all-powerful God would create automatons simply b/c He could. What would that prove?"

        I would assume that an all powerful God would be above creating humans in order to prove something.
        I don't pay much attention to what young males are doing with their cars what does that has to do with anything?
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -2/+6I seriously read the entire "Word of God" when I was growing up. I saw it for what it was and rejected it.

        You might be a fundamentalist if...
        When debating, you use bible verses as if they prove something.
        http://digg.com/general_sciences/Signs_You_re_a_Fu ...
      • Orwell007, on 07/19/2008, -5/+4"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"

        He also gave us Freewill. He also said he will allow the ignorant to wear blinders and be deceived. He also demonstrated that he is willing to correct matters when the wicked become out of hand.

        He also gave us instructions on how to live a moral life, which would allow us to live in peace and harmony. Has the religion of atheism or paganism provided that harmony or had any positive impact on the world?

        Can you prove God does not exist?
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -3/+3I already disproved the Christian version of God with this:
        Could God have forgiven our sins without sacrificing his son? If not, God is not all powerful. If so, the death of Jesus has no significance.

        No one can disprove the Giant Spaghetti Monster or the possibility that there is is some kind of God.

        Whether something has had a positive impact on the world is subjective and has nothing at all to do with its truth.
      • flip2trip, on 07/19/2008, -4/+4Evilena--"Are you saying that God isn't powerful enough to go against his holy nature or that he doesn't want to?"

        Good question. It's not about being powerful enough, it's about sin and the fact it cannot exist in the presence of God.

        "Could God have forgiven our sins without sacrificing his son? If not, God is not all powerful. If so, the death of Jesus has no significance."

        Your setting up a false dichotomy with these questions. 'You make the assumption that because God cannot overlook sin this somehow rules out Him being all powerful. The fact of the matter is, He didn't have to create the universe, He didn't have to create mankind--He chose to out of Love. Because He is Holy and cannot overlook our sins if you feel this makes Him less than all powerful, doesn't matter to me. If it somehow makes you feel better in someway to to stand in your chair and yell, "God's not all powerful because He cannot forgive sin w/o a sacrifice" then by all means have fun.

        You have been told about God's love and His offer of salvation, and you said you have read the Bible so you know the truth and it seems you've made your choice. I will pray that you will find whatever it is you are looking for.
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -5/+3Because God is the El Shaddai, (the MOST powerful God) he cannot go against His WORD.

        THE ONLY THING GOD CAN'T DO - IS LIE.

        not a pagan in the whole of forever can make him-
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -1/+4Now we are getting somewhere.

        SOLGAARD has conceded that God is not all powerful because God can't lie. Congratulations.
        You've Taken Your First Step Into A Larger World.

        flip2trip, says sin can not exist in the presence of God but is having trouble grasping how that detracts from God's all powerful status.
      • KJeffV, on 07/19/2008, -4/+2"I would assume that an all powerful God would be above creating humans in order to prove something. I don't pay much attention to what young males are doing w/their cars; what does that has to do w/anything?"

        Apparently you missed the connection betw/those who have nothing & therefore seek attention b/c any attention of any sort is "good" and those who have "it"—whatever "it" is—& need prove nothing.
      • Evilena, on 07/20/2008, -1/+3If the whole thing about cars what just to point what I already said about an all powerful God being above creating humans in order to prove something, then it doesn't matter.

        Turn off Nascar and explain If God is all powerful, why did he have to sacrifice his son for our transgressions? If God could have forgiven us anyway, how does the death of Jesus have any significance whatsoever?
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/20/2008, -0/+4notbysight, get back to us when you can type on a computer and use actual words.
      • flip2trip, on 07/20/2008, -3/+2Evilena---It's been explained to you and either you are too thick to grasp it or just being willfully obtuse.
      • Evilena, on 07/20/2008, -1/+3You never explained how is god all powerful if he can't exist in the presence of sin.

        I am not being willfully obtuse. I am speaking the truth and you won't accept it because that would burst the bubble you have been living in.

        I come baring the fruit of the tree of knowledge and offer your children salvation from the virus of faith.

      • KJeffV, on 07/20/2008, -2/+2{I vote f/the latter, F2T!}

        You are in error at least twice if not thrice.
        1)Your assumption that "an all-powerful god" would be "above" creating humans or that his power stems fr/following "your rules" begs that your mindset is parallel w/God's, which it most certainly isn't. Can't you see that His being all-powerful necessarily means He created "the rules," which could conceivably incl/ones even He would not break? {If I were king of the world, I'd have a million motorcycles & wearing a spiked collar would mandate a jail sentence. Good thing neither one of us is in charge, ain't it?} I believe you're arguing semantics anyway, as I commented elsewhere, which has no bearing on the Truth, which stands alone and is easily recognizable, albeit frequently hated.
        2)I'm certain you meant "Turn off `Tour de France´," but my bride is watching it, not I. In fact, there's only one activity that I attempt never to miss out on, and it bears no relation whatsoever to NASCAR, which is capitalized by virtue of being an acronym, by the bye.
        3)"I don't pay much attention to what young males are doing w/their cars...." But you most certainly pay attention to THEM . . . otherwise you would not allow yourself to photographed in the manner you have/would not post a photo such as you have, whether of you or someone else.
      • flip2trip, on 07/20/2008, -3/+2"You never explained how is god all powerful if he can't exist in the presence of sin."

        Are you having trouble with reading comprehension? I never said HE can't exist in the presence of sin I said SIN can't exist in his presence.
        ----------------------
        "I am not being willfully obtuse. I am speaking the truth and you won't accept it because that would burst the bubble you have been living in."

        But what you don't understand is I used to live in the same "bubble" as you do now, but have been set free. Now I see what true reality is--all is vanity with out God.

        Oh, and by the way, you said you weren't being obtuse so, by process of elimination, does that mean your too thick? :p

      • Evilena, on 07/20/2008, -1/+4"Are you having trouble with reading comprehension? I never said HE can't exist in the presence of sin I said SIN can't exist in his presence. "

        No. I am having trouble understanding how your mind has made you believe those are different.
      • Evilena, on 07/20/2008, -1/+4KJeffV, My pictures, motorcycles, what your wife is watching on TV, or the right way to write NASCAR has nothing at all to do with my question. Stay on topic or just give up.
      • KJeffV, on 07/20/2008, -4/+2I answered your question; your dissatisfaction w/my answer in no way diminishes the information contained therein. I also answered your statements; you didn't expect to post just any ol' thang and not get called on your crap, did you? Hey, if ya can't stand the heat, drag yourself on over to HuffPo. {Oh, I visit there also, but the majority of those posters will be far more appreciative of your brilliance.}
      • flip2trip, on 07/20/2008, -4/+2Evilena--I'm done with you. You don't wish to have a discussion, you want to play word games.
      • Evilena, on 07/20/2008, -1/+4All I see is off topic nonsense and you just gave me more of it.
        Give me an answer to my without talking about anything else or admit that you can't do it.

        If someone else would like to try to restate his answer leaving out everything off topic, give it a shot. To me all that seems left is that God's mind is so different from my mind that I shouldn't even bother thinking about it.
      • Evilena, on 07/20/2008, -1/+4Your dismissing logic as word games because it proves
        (HE can't exist in the presence of sin) = (SIN can't exist in his presence.)
        And you over look the fact that if god was all powerful he could make it so sin can exist in his presence.
      • KJeffV, on 07/20/2008, -4/+2I'll finish this simply b/c—f/the benefit of anyone ELSE who's interested—I believe it deserves an answer:

        "(HE can't exist in the presence of sin) = (SIN can't exist in his presence.)"
        You have been directed to read/study this in the Word. You claim you already did this. Apparently you were too young/uninterested/unable to digest it at the time. Try it again IF YOU'RE TRULY INTERESTED; I have a feeling that no one here is going to cont w/you. Pls be aware that some day—perhaps in the not-too-distant future—you will see this played out w/truly personal involvement & results.

        "And you over look the fact that if god was all powerful he could make it so sin can exist in his presence."
        Yeah, we all just parachuted in. Thanx! No one had conceived that until you mentioned it just now. Whew!
        I'm guessing just about every professing believer knows that God CAN do pretty much whatever He WANTS to do, despite the "fact" that it might seem impossible. The Word says He does what He does BY CHOICE. THAT should have every liberal's attention! {I know by personal experience that I'm able to eat thirty-two Butterfinger candy bars—the big boys, not those little, Hallowe`en sissy-treats. I choose, pretty much on a day-to-day basis, not even getting started. I CAN eat chocolate; I choose NOT to eat it.} God chose to create mankind w/free will. He also chose not to allow those who reject Him into His presence . . . when That Day arrives.

        I pray that you will allow Him to reveal Himself to you & that He will bless you richly.
      • flip2trip, on 07/20/2008, -4/+2I'm going to try one more time Evilina. It says in His Word sin is like darkness. It also says that God is light. Therefor using this analogy, picture a dark room which represents sin and God is the light---if you flip the switch and turn on the light the darkness flees, the same as sin does in the presence of God.
      • Evilena, on 07/21/2008, -1/+3Is this what you are saying flip2trip...
        Sin means lack of god in the same way that darkness means lack of light.
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/28/2008, -0/+2I thought believers say that "God is everywhere." If that is so, then doesn't sin does exist in the presence of God?

        I just love the classic responses to your simple requests to clarify an answer. They include:
        o I'm done with you - because you won't just accept it is true because I believe it and I say so.
        o You are spiritually blind - Once you believe, you will read things the way we do, not the way they are written.
        o You won't see 'Truth', so let me scare you - If you don't believe, you will find the truth some day when it is too late, and you will go to hell.
        o And the ever popular intellectually dishonest answer - don't respond, but claim the same things in other forums, pretending you have never been challenged over your outrageous statements. Apparently, it is not a 'sin' to be dishonest when you are trying to spread your faith.
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/29/2008, -0/+2Orwell007 asks: "Can you prove God does not exist?"

        Maybe, I can, and I will be glad to do so just after you show that he/she/it does exist.
    • THEROD54, on 07/20/2008, -5/+2IT is permitted for the good of the nation ,for one man to sacrifice himself ( give up HIS life). It is against Jewish Law to take a life (murder) Yeshua willingly gave up his life , in sacrifice, for the good of us ALL.
      • THEROD54, on 07/20/2008, -2/+2Let me add to this. If you have read all the scriptures , like you said, E, than for the transgressions committed by Adam and Eve an animal sacrifice was made by G-D'S own hand.It wasn't until later Jesus made the PERFECT SACRIFICE for the sins of all mankind, to pay the price, for your soul.

        IF you still don't get it , I , Solgard,Rightwing,LadyAmerica,Orwell, and all the other who believe , CAN'T HELP YOU. I can show you THE WAY ,BUT I can't make the journey for you.

        Final thought . Mathew 5: 17-18.
  • AThoughtOrTwo, on 07/19/2008, -7/+7But WHAT ARE YOU if ... You think Muslim prayers in school are okay?
    • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -3/+4A terrorist.
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -5/+2No, your not even practice, (not even a stain).
    • kayala, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2What does Islam have to do with this? (Hint: nothing.)
  • cpsteinmetz, on 07/19/2008, -6/+11Ah, the nutcases come out in force. Perhaps they should read the actual case, rather than WND's typically wrong, slanted and incomplete article.
    • kittydee1, on 07/19/2008, -8/+3Yeah, sure, you must get your "news" from CNN
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/19/2008, -0/+8No, in fact, I do not. But, what does that have to do with what I stated?
      • kayala, on 07/20/2008, -0/+5Little kittydee's just a Christian-indoctrinated pest with a stick up her ass. Don't pay her any mind; she's never come up with an original thought or put together a coherent argument in her pathetic little life.
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/29/2008, -0/+3Kayla - ouch! It is interesting to track these folks comments and see them continue to make the same tired comments and never respond to what is said.
      • ApokalypseNow, on 07/29/2008, -0/+2@kayala, cpsteinmetz
        I always found it interesting that these sorts think that their sources are somehow legitimate, despite the complete lack of journalistic integrity. It's pretty much the same as tabloid journalism, but with a reactionary religious position.
  • Mom2GIQM, on 07/19/2008, -7/+8I hope parents and students are paying attention.
  • DuggDowner, on 07/19/2008, -7/+12I don't understand why all these nutjob Christians are upset. It's not like they could get accepted by a California State University anyway.
    • kittydee1, on 07/19/2008, -10/+5They are upset because nutjobs like YOU walk around them
      • DuggDowner, on 07/19/2008, -4/+11No, I went to much better schools.
    • LadyAmerica, on 07/19/2008, -9/+6Dugg, What was your GPA at University? What did you major in?

      My family are "nutjob Christians," as you call us:

      One of my daughters has two degrees (Business, and Math/Science Ed), earned about 3.2 out of 4.0 GPA, while being a single parent and raising a child.

      I worked full time (8 hours/day) and attended University at night. I had a 3.5+ overall out of 4.0. Was on the "dean's list" many, many times. Majored in accounting.

      My other daughter is an elementary school teacher. (Education degree)

      My husband is degreed...

      etc...etc...

      Now, what were you saying?
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -8/+3Nothing, nothing at all.
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/19/2008, -2/+6I noticed you 'forgot' to mention which University or Universities you are boasting about. Could it be Liberty University - founded by the lying Jerry Fallwell?
      • Phyraxus, on 07/21/2008, -1/+3"One of my daughters has two degrees (Business, and Math/Science Ed), earned about 3.2 out of 4.0 GPA, while being a single parent and raising a child."

        You didn't disown your daughter because she is a whore who had a bastard child? You must not be a TRUE Christian (TM)! YOU GIVE TRUE CHRISTIANS (TM) A BAD NAME!!!
      • LadyAmerica, on 07/21/2008, -2/+2Cpsteinmetz said: "I noticed you 'forgot' to mention which University or Universities you are boasting about. Could it be Liberty University - founded by the lying Jerry Fallwell?"
        1) I was NOT boasting, but was challenging DugDowner (to whom my post was addressed) on his calling Christians "nut jobs," and implying they could not get accepted at good schools.
        2) I did NOT attend Liberty U. I attended a state university that is well-known & highly rated for business education.
        3) YOU are unfairly judging and disparaging Jerry Falwell. He was a fine man and NOT a liar!

        Phyraxus said: "You didn't disown your daughter because she is a whore who had a bastard child? You must not be a TRUE Christian (TM)! YOU GIVE TRUE CHRISTIANS (TM) A BAD NAME!!!"
        1) You know nothing. For all you do know, my daughter could have been a widow!!!
        2) If my daughter did have an out-of-wedlock birth, so what? Christians don't disown their children for making a mistake.
        3) My, my, how judgmental you are. It is YOU who are condemning girls who make mistakes – YOU who are calling them "whores" and their children "bastards". What hypocrisy!


        I think you both should be ashamed of yourselves for your ignorance, cruelty and nastiness!

        By the way, I AM a Christian, and proud of it!
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/22/2008, -1/+3LadyAmerica stated: "YOU are unfairly judging and disparaging Jerry Falwell. He was a fine man and NOT a liar!"
        What would you call a man who said he was shutting down the "Moral Majority" because it had accomplished it's goal (which it hadn't) and not because of lack of money (while he was letting its employees go because of a lack of money)?
        I'll state it again. He was the worst kind of liar: a liar in Christian clothing.
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/22/2008, -1/+2So you didn't go to Liberty - you were also boasting about your children.
        Did they go to Liberty, or to a real university?
      • StaticThunder, on 07/22/2008, -1/+2This is all irrelevant. Crazy people can be educated too. It doesn't make them not crazy.
      • Evilena, on 07/22/2008, -1/+3"Majored in accounting."
        I would have thought that would have given you a better understanding of numbers and statistics.
  • jimmiewkersh, on 07/19/2008, -8/+9I do suppose that the UC system considers the education of Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, John Q. Adams, Alexander Hamilton, and their ilk was completely unacceptable as well since their educations came from a Christian Worldview. Maybe the UC System can just eleminate Western Culture from the first century until the latter part of the 20th century because of its Christian Worldview. Maybe that way they can continue to re-write history as they are so willing to do with anything else.
    • cpsteinmetz, on 07/19/2008, -3/+2I wonder if anything in education has changed in the last several hundred years. Oh yes, science has made religion superfluous. But, according to the right wing fundamentalist branch of Christianity, the 1700s were just fine and children should be educated to live in those times.
      And just how has the UC system eliminated "Western Culture from the first century until the latter part of the 20th century because of its Christian Worldview?"
      • jimmiewkersh, on 07/20/2008, -3/+3Without the Renaissance movement as a complete repudiation of the Holy Roman Catholic Church there would be no liberal thought today. I have nothing against liberal thought as long as it is a balanced process and accepting of other views as it demands of its own. Furthermore, in asking how the UC System has "eliminated," Western Culture, apparently you need glasses or a better understanding of the English language. I did not say that the UC System had eliminated Western Culture, I stated, "Maybe the UC System can just eliminate Western Culture. . . " If they are so bent upon continuing to destroy the fundamental premises of the scientific theory then let them, and more power to them. The Empirical theory that science is based upon never eliminates possible alternative answers however small the possibility of them being correct. I do believe you have chosen to be complicit in the same intolerance of the Empirical theory as most liberal are. And you guys thought the Scopes was funny, you guys make Clarence Darrow appear to me the most tolerant person in the country.
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/20/2008, -1/+2jimmiewkersh, maybe I don't need glasses or English lessons. You did state: "Maybe that way they can continue to re-write history as they are so willing to do with anything else." You obviously implied they were re-writing history, and surely seemed to imply that UC system was trying to do so as this followed directly "Maybe the UC System can just eliminate Western Culture." So, how is the system re-writing history?
        You also confuse "liberal" thinking and "scientific" thinking. They are not the same. Science is neither liberal nor conservative - it attempts to be objective based upon evidence and testing. And, your assertion that "The Empirical theory that science is based upon never eliminates possible alternative answers however small the possibility of them being correct." Oh really? Did you just dream that up, or did a minister tell you? I thought "science" eliminated the "possible alternative answer" that the earth was hollow, or that the world was less than 10,000 years old.
      • jimmiewkersh, on 07/20/2008, -2/+2Kant in his treatise on Empirical thought was consumed with finding truth by exclusion, but he never concluded finality until ALL, his stress, possibilities had been exhausted. The true Empiricist that Kant never eliminated something without first being able, conclusively and empirically, to make its possibility of existence impossible. Furthermore, liberalism is a dirty word to me, its current form as practiced in the academic world is far from Socrates or Plato's liberal methodology, going back to Western Culture again. Thus, I find it beyond the pale that a group of communists and socialists, American liberals, would be so vacuous as to not understand tolerance. Their intolerance is easily compared to that of Stalin or Mao. In addition, as far as the earth being 10,000 years old, which I seriously doubt, has no bearing on Science. Science has never been about proving truth, it is about proving fact. Fact, which Kant would argue is only possible to know once everything, no matter how small is eliminated as possible.
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1So I talk 'science' and you talk 'philosophy'. Let's talk about how 'science' works.
  • Orwell007, on 07/19/2008, -8/+6An important study has just been released by the the world's most highly respected and foremost authority on evolution. In this study, Professor Can I. Trickem, has discovered irrefutable evidence that Marxists leaning individuals have evolved from Vampires. He displayed how this finding can be tested and duplicated, even by the uneducated. Each time Professor Can I. Trickem flashed a cross or a Christain Bible or even a Scripture out of the Bible, the vampire evolved Marxist displayed unusual and demented characteristics and behavior. This experience is so traumatic that it has even caused many to become completely confused as to their gender. Many of the female species even suck the blood out of their unborn.

    I have checked the federal and state hunting regulations and there is no limit or restrictions on Vampires or Vampire derivatives.

    If you do not care to hunt, then you might support extending the border fence around the entire state of Kalifornia and declare the whole state a mental institution, under the supervision of fully armed prisoners of GITMO. The intellectual Left wants these innocent victims released anyway.

    If you don't support that solution, then we could just nuke the state.

    If you find that too harsh, then you better get off your butt and start demanding some accountability from the elected officials, while you still have the ability to speak out.
    • LadyAmerica, on 07/19/2008, -3/+4Great post!!!!! Hilarious AND right on!!!!!
  • KCLorelei39, on 07/19/2008, -10/+8California is starting to resemble Germany more and more, sadly enough.

    Online colleges are an excellent alternative to the state-dictated nonsense.
  • sexydarin, on 07/19/2008, -12/+2Get rid of the secularists. Make a conservative christian system where there are NO NON-CHRISTIANS ALLOWED!
    • cpsteinmetz, on 07/19/2008, -1/+7Switzerland tried that long ago. The people revolted.

      Why do you want a theocracy? Do you hate this country and the Constitution upon which it is based?

      Why do you think shouting "No non-Christians allowed" does anything more than making your point any less foolish than it sounds.
  • THEROD54, on 07/19/2008, -8/+10LET ME SEE??????????????????????

    If you teach a secular view point , OK , Muslim, OK, Jewish,OK , Hindu, OK,and on and on and on. Teach from a christian view point????????????????????????? OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Professing to us ( christian ) that they know more and better than we,I conclude thus.
    Professing themselves to be wise, they have be come FOOLS.
    • MoniqueMoniCat, on 07/19/2008, -7/+6yes, even ANIMALS KNOW BETTER, THEY KNOW THERE IS A GOD.
    • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -4/+7"yes, even ANIMALS KNOW BETTER, THEY KNOW THERE IS A GOD."
      Its statements like that stop people from taking anything christians say seriously.
    • THEROD54, on 07/19/2008, -5/+4 YES .Scripture like the one I put out tends to get under peoples skin . Even if you have read all the scriptures, it is the heart that has to make the decision for you , not the mind . The mind can be tricked, not so easily the heart. I have seen to many , many times, the mind make the wrong decision, but it is yours to make and suffer the consequences. SHALOM.
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -2/+5Hearts don't make decisions so you are speaking metaphorically about emotions. If you believe something with emotion but not logic then your mind has been tricked.
      • THEROD54, on 07/19/2008, -4/+3No , I speak of the heart , not emotion.
      • Evilena, on 07/20/2008, -2/+4Non metaphorically the only decision my heart makes is how fast to beat.
      • THEROD54, on 07/20/2008, -4/+3Than you have a problem.
    • cpsteinmetz, on 07/19/2008, -2/+3"Professing themselves to be wise, they have be come FOOLS." A cutting indictment of fundamentalist Christians.
      • these3remain, on 07/20/2008, -2/+3Actually, that scripture was directed toward those who do not believe in the living God.
    • THEROD54, on 07/20/2008, -4/+5I'm not a fundamentalist Christian. Try Messianic Jew.
      It's clear you don't know scripture or the contents of my quote
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/20/2008, -2/+3Methinks it's clear you don't recognize irony / sarcasm.

        What is the real difference between a Messianic Jew and a fundamentalist Christian? [A sincere question.] It seems as though the two are actually the same at heart, just in different clothes.
      • THEROD54, on 07/20/2008, -3/+3No , I know the difference between irony / sarcasm. As to the difference between M. J. and F. C. , most F. C. I know don't get the connection totally between old and new testaments . There is more unauthorized scriptures out there that have not been cannonized,
      • THEROD54, on 07/20/2008, -1/+3Back to this thread . I don't mean this as a dig on the F.C. . There is so much about G-D that is not contained in the Bible , but has as much to do to explain HIM. Look at Mathew 5: 17-18.
  • Derelict267, on 07/19/2008, -1/+7My opinion of everyone here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCh2FXzD6R4
  • MoniqueMoniCat, on 07/19/2008, -9/+10well, all you God haters have had your say, let's hear what GOD SAYS:


    New Living Translation Bible: Job chaper 12
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You really know everything, don't you? And when you die, wisdom will die with you!
    Well, I know a few things myself-and you're no better than I am. Who doesn't know these things you've been saying?
    Yet my friends laugh at me. I am a man who calls on God and receives an answer. I am a just and blameless man, yet they laugh at me.
    People who are at ease mock those in trouble. They give a push to people who are stumbling.
    But even robbers are left in peace, and those who provoke God-and God has them in his power-live in safety!

    "Ask the animals, and they will teach you. Ask the birds of the sky, and they will tell you.
    Speak to the earth, and it will instruct you. Let the fish of the sea speak to you.
    They all know that the Lord has done this.
    For the life of every living thing is in his hand, and the breath of all humanity.
    Just as the mouth tastes good food, so the ear tests the words it hears.
    Wisdom belongs to the aged, and understanding to those who have lived many years.

    "But true wisdom and power are with God; counsel and understanding are his.
    What he destroys cannot be rebuilt. When he closes in on someone, there is no escape.
    If he holds back the rain, the earth becomes a desert. If he releases the waters, they flood the earth.

    "Yes, strength and wisdom are with him; deceivers and deceived are both in his power.
    He leads counselors away stripped of good judgment; he drives judges to madness.
    He removes the royal robe of kings. With ropes around their waist, they are led away.
    He leads priests away stripped of status; he overthrows the mighty.
    He silences the trusted adviser, and he removes the insight of the elders.
    He pours disgrace upon princes and confiscates weapons from the strong.
    "He floods the darkness with light; he brings light to the deepest gloom.
    He raises up nations, and he destroys them. He makes nations expand, and he abandons them.
    He takes away the understanding of kings, and he leaves them wandering in a wasteland without a path.

    They grope in the darkness without a light. He makes them stagger like drunkards.
    _______________________________________________________________


    EVEN ANIMALS KNOW BETTER! EVEN ANIMALS KNOW GOD!

    And by the way, you God haters, you better be 100% right because if you're NOT, there's a place called HELL and it's for eternity. Now, let us reason together, the FACT is you cannot be 100% right, after all, you've never died and therefore you do NOT know. And if you're wrong, YOU LOSE BIG TIME. Any gambler would tell you that's just not a gamble worth taking.

    Here's a challenge to any atheist out there (that is IF you have the balls to do it): why don't you simply ASK GOD IF HE'S REAL TO SHOW HIMSELF TO YOU? He's available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, you can ask him in the privacy of your own bedroom, you don't have to be in a church you know. You can even yell it at Him, he understands you're human. That's what I did and let me tell you, HE WILL ANSWER YOU. Sometimes immediately, sometimes soon after, but when He speaks to you, YOU WILL KNOW IT and YOU WILL GET YOUR ANSWER. Until then, it is obvious you're just afraid to find out the truth. (shaking my head) what a bunch of wimps !

    Anyone up for the challenge? If you not, continue on in your ignorance, but know that bible thumpers like me will continue to challenge you on your cowardice as long as you live.

    You can take that to the bank.

    TO HEAR MORE ABOUT WHAT GOD SAYS CLICK HERE:
    http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/print ...
    • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -3/+8" ASK GOD IF HE'S REAL TO SHOW HIMSELF TO YOU?"
      I did it again. Still nothing
      • KCLorelei39, on 07/19/2008, -10/+6sincerity helps.
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -6/+4Being a liar, certainly hasn't proved any-point to date.

        (li-ing tomorrow, won't help-you either)
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/19/2008, -2/+7Evilena, I admire your energy.
        I have grown so tired of asking the folk who shout and spout all their religious nonsense for just *some* objective evidence for their beliefs.
        They typically just quote scripture - no evidence - or ask for 'proof God doesn't exist'. Then, when I point out it is their burden to back up their claims, and again ask for *evidence*, they run away.
        I hope you continue to try to keep them honest, but at some point you will probably have to accept the fact that they are just blowhards who want to control your life and the nation - based upon nothing more than their "faith" - forget logic, data, rational thought, science, etc.
      • Evilena, on 07/20/2008, -2/+6I accepted what you are saying long ago. I think its important for people that have not made up their mind to see them quote scripture as proof in debates and throw logic out the window.

        I come baring the fruit of the tree of knowledge and offer your children salvation from the virus of faith.
      • kayala, on 07/20/2008, -3/+6Evilena, don't you know? You have to believe first, and then your belief will be validated! It's a roundabout method, but it works: accept one hard premise first, and then the following premises will be easy to accept and will fortify the first premise. Doesn't matter that all the premises are downright false; you can still easily fortify them with other, similar nonsense.
    • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -3/+8I guess God doesn't have the balls to answer me. What a wimp.
      • KCLorelei39, on 07/19/2008, -10/+6sarcasm doesn't help.
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -4/+10MoniqueMoniCat gave this challenge because she thinks atheists will actually be afraid to do it calling us cowards and wimps. Sarcasm was my way of answering her.
      • SOLGAARD, on 07/19/2008, -7/+3Great, that only proves God's, (her) point.

        You're so smart.
      • KCLorelei39, on 07/19/2008, -6/+5oic. while I don't practice MMC's personal outreach style, there is truth in what she said:

        "HE WILL ANSWER YOU. Sometimes immediately, sometimes soon after, but when He speaks to you, YOU WILL KNOW IT and YOU WILL GET YOUR ANSWER."

        just because there was not an immediate response, does not mean that He will not answer your inquiry, eventually, in His own good time, in His own undeniable way. He's not the bellboy, He's the Creator and like I said, sincerity helps...

        Are you prepared for that answer?
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -3/+8In fact yes. I was prepared for a vague an answer that.
        He's not the bellboy he is not a fast food restaurant, but if he is all powerful he can't ever be too busy.
      • flip2trip, on 07/21/2008, -5/+3@KCLorelei---God knows her heart and if she is sincere when she asks, then God will show himself, if not now, then later in His time--on the other hand if she isn't, she is merely mocking Him and in that case she will still get her answer eventually, but I've a feeling she won't like it, because it will be too late to change her mind..
      • kayala, on 07/21/2008, -1/+5Why would she have to be sincere? Shouldn't Gawd want her to believe? It's counterintuitive to demand belief before that belief can be validated. We don't believe in your little deity because you won't give us any proof and even the deity himself is a little too vain to make himself known. I'm not impressed.
      • Cate320, on 07/21/2008, -1/+7So basically... if you want to believe in God, ask him to show himself to you... but he'll only do that if you already believe.

        No. That isn't circular reasoning *at all*.

        Oh, and you might not get an obvious answer, but sometimes no answer is his answer...

        You certainly have all your bases covered...

        Can't really argue with that. *rolls eyes*
      • flip2trip, on 07/22/2008, -3/+2You guys are smart people, how is it you confuse sincerity with belief?

        sin·cer·i·ty
        –noun, plural -ties. freedom from deceit, hypocrisy, or duplicity; probity in intention or in communicating; earnestness.

        be·lief
        –noun 1. something believed; an opinion or conviction.
        2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof.
        3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
        4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

        I can't see why you guys can't discern the difference.
      • Cate320, on 07/22/2008, -1/+5We can discern the difference just fine. But you can't be sincere about something you don't believe in.
      • flip2trip, on 07/23/2008, -2/+2Cate--- I disagree. If you are sincere in your heart for wanting to find God, then He will reveal Himself to you. I'm not saying you have to believe in Him, but you do have to be honest with Him--you have to want to know Him.

        If it were me I might pray something like this---Lord, I do not believe You exist. Everything I see and know from knowledge says to me that You do not exist. Even so, I want you to be real. I need You to be real. I ask that you reveal Yourself to me so that I can have eternal life by giving myself to Jesus. I'm asking You to speak to my heart Lord and help me with my unbelief. Remove the scales from my eyes so that I can see the Truth. Lord, even though I doubt Your existence, here I am asking for Your help in overcoming that doubt.

        Now if you were sincere in what you asked, I suggest that you read John and Romans to start. Don't just read to be reading, meditate on the words and keep asking God to reveal the truth of His words. If you do, He will answer--and trust me, your life will never be the same again.

        Be blessed.
      • Cate320, on 07/23/2008, -2/+3The thing is flip, I still think it is impossible by definition for people to be sincere about praying like that to a God they don't think exists. Perhaps people that are unsure, but not people like evilena who are SURE that he doesn't.

        Also, I used to be a Christian. My life was no different then than it is now... except that I had to wake up early on Sundays to go to church... so you might even say that it was worse.
      • flip2trip, on 07/23/2008, -1/+1Cate---I'm sorry I came to your reply and am too tired to think right now--I will post a response here later today.
    • THEROD54, on 07/19/2008, -8/+3Have you listen .
      Really listen. Maybe you can't hear HIM over the roar in your life. First you have got to get still, Inside and out. Remember G-D is not mocked. I would not provoke his wreath. BE still , and really listen.
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -3/+7Ok. I was still this time and I didn't mock him. I really listened and I didn't hear anything.
      • THEROD54, on 07/19/2008, -7/+4You will need more time young one.
      • cpsteinmetz, on 07/19/2008, -3/+4What b.s. Maybe you should just try to think rationally once. Just sit still - really try. Look at the evidence. It can be very enlightening.
        And Dr. Freud would have something to say about the fact you typed "wreath" rather than "wrath." Who did you hate when you were young? Actually, provoking his 'wreath' makes as much sense.
      • Evilena, on 07/19/2008, -3/+7More time? My family got me to do something similar over 20 years ago and I am still waiting for that answer.
      • THEROD54, on 07/20/2008, -7/+4Sorry for the spelling CP, and by the way when I has young I grew up in the age of enlightenment (the 60,s), so I was taught at a very young age not to hate. Unlike some of today who spout intellectual jargon to make themselves feel important. Shalom.
      • THEROD54, on 07/20/2008, -6/+4You must be ignoring the answer than Evilena
      • Evilena, on 07/20/2008, -3/+7What makes the 60s the age of enlightenment?
        I grew up in the information age we learned that the 18th Century was known as