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526 Comments
- omarciddo, on 10/11/2007, -17/+194Think of it this way: would you rather pitch in tax dollars to send soldiers to their death, or to the healthcare of our citizens?
- Nydas, on 10/11/2007, -57/+230I was against Universal health care, because i never liked the thought of paying for someone elses sickness. But this movie has defiantly opened me up to the idea of it. I'm still not 100% sold on it though.
- eddyc, on 10/11/2007, -11/+132Its pretty strange thing from an outsiders perspective that the U.S. doesn't have a state healthcare system.
Moore makes a good point in his documentary that the fire department is a state run service.
I think its a fair point, you could also make the comparison of not having a state run police department.
Health care is just one of those things that every living person , good, bad, lazy or whatever should have access to.
God forbid you were to fall ill and not be able to afford health insurance cos you can't work. It just has this weird law of the jungle dog eat dog feeling about it, for a country as christian as america, it doesn't really add up. - Nayamina, on 10/11/2007, -4/+96As a born and raised Canadian, I can't imagine living without Universal Coverage. It ensures that everyone has equal right and ability to get health care, not based on if someone can afford it or not.
If you are chronically ill to the point you can't work what happens? You become your family's problem and hope that they can cover the bill? Or you die. Great choices.
Yes you are paying for everyone else's health care too. But it's a tax like everything else. Personally I know I would rather see my tax dollars making sure that those I love can get health care anywhere at any time than fighting a war that never should have been in the first place. - thesauce, on 10/11/2007, -6/+88Not everyone is poor because they are lazy. Many are poor because they naturally don't have the skills to have a high paying job. These are the people that need our help. People who are well off can sometimes find themselves at the ***** end of the stick as well. I have great insurance, and there has been a few times when hospitals and insurance companies ***** me over and I have to pay thousands of dollars I don't have at the moment. I think that if most people who were against universal health care found themselves in one of these types of situations, they would change their mind.
- NikoKun, on 10/11/2007, -4/+71I always look at it, as not paying for other people, but paying for myself and the people I love. Besides, what's wrong with helping a few people less fortunate than yourself?
Plus you'd be saving money, because whatever the extra taxes would be, it wouldn't be anywhere near what current insurance companies charge... - m0d3s7m1k3, on 10/11/2007, -8/+69"If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people"
-Tony Benn
As stated in "Sicko" this will never work in America. We're far too selfish and corrupt to care about others while there's a fraudulent war.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be great to give everyone a fair chance to be healed in their time of need, but our economy is more concerned with money and its own agenda to care about those who are sick. The people who are selling you drugs and unhealthy foods are in cahoots with the health industry. It's a win win situation and a cash payout. Move to another country and be fairly taxed, die of a disease, or break up these financial relationships between corporations and government, those are your only options.
Welcome to Despotism. - CrankyHippo, on 10/11/2007, -8/+55"mostly right" is fine with me if it gets people talking about it, i have yet to see Sicko but, whether or not you agree with Michael Moore it gets people talking and not ignoring important issues
- culbeda, on 10/11/2007, -4/+49I vote healthcare, as long as we can set aside a few dollars to investigate and prosecute those who got us in this current mess.
- NecroSexy, on 10/11/2007, -12/+55CNN fact checking? Get the ***** out of here. Fact check a documentary but not the reasons to go to war.
Here's a laughable excerpt: "Americans do have shorter wait times than everyone but Germans when it comes to nonemergency elective surgery [...]" Keyword: nonemergency. - TechCF, on 10/11/2007, -3/+44Universal Health Care is GREAT. Great to be living in Norway :)
- Dumbledorito, on 10/11/2007, -2/+43I don't see anything wrong with having some form of universally covered critical care (i.e. breaking a limb, workplace injury, etc.). It's that kind of stuff that really scares the hell out of the sole proprietor or uninsured worker.
- subxero37, on 10/11/2007, -6/+46I am an American citizen living in Illinois. I plan on finishing college here, and then moving to Canada as soon as possible before things get worse in this country (no offense to the population -- it's the government that makes me feel this way.)
As for people saying that they don't want to pay for other peoples' problems: isn't it our duty as human beings to help other human beings? I think so, and if it means putting forth more money for life instead of more money for death (useless wars, ridiculous governments, stupid media and politicians) then I'm all for it.
I recently had a surgery (I mentioned it in a Digg post a while back) that cost my family $65,000 -- I was incredibly, incredibly lucky that the insurance company paid for most of that, and even then, it's not easy getting an insurance company to fork over money. As one of the interviewees in Sicko says (paraphrased), 'the best idea of a health care company president is not the one who can help the most people, but the one who can find all sorts of loopholes to get out of helping people, the one who can make the company more and more money.'
I'm tired of doing things the old way -- look on Wikipedia, we're one of the few modernized countries without Universal Healthcare: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/94/Health.png
What the hell is taking us so long? - nosecohn, on 10/11/2007, -2/+35You're already paying for it. The US spends a higher percentage of GDP on health care than any of the countries with a nationalized system, and it has a higher GDP than most of them too. For all that, we're ranked 37th in care by the World Health Organization.
- Fascist, on 10/11/2007, -7/+37There's no problem, a system can always combine the best of both worlds.
- malonesm, on 10/11/2007, -2/+32Don't knock it until you've seen it. I've never liked Moore, but having seen this film, I have found respect for what he is doing.
Give the film a chance and go see it. You will think on a higher level when it's over. - piznut, on 10/11/2007, -2/+32My mom had breast cancer. She has a good paying career with a software company who provides supposedly 'full coverage' insurance. Why is it that even with "good insurance" she is close to 100k in debt and in danger of losing her retirement?
We've got this ***** leech industry sitting between healthcare providers and the people who need it. Its ***** and it needs to stop. - speedo, on 10/11/2007, -5/+34I live in Canada, Happy Canada day and happy free health care every day!
Pretty good day today. - Aggaman, on 10/11/2007, -1/+27Where do you think your employer gets the money to pay your health insurance with? In effect they dock your pay to pay for it.
If they stop having to pay for your insurance, you will get a pay rise. If you don't, then some other employer will offer you better wages, since that is how the market works. Removing health insurance from being an employer's responsibility will automatically cause upward pressure on wages. It's also smart. Why on earth should your employer have to fret about your insurance? - modifiedbears, on 10/11/2007, -7/+31Half our ***** budget goes to the military. Why do we tolerate this? We should take some ideas from the French and flip some cars over. I give anyone permission to flip mine over if it means we end up with a better society for us all.
- kazamx, on 10/11/2007, -4/+27Hmmmm, in America some people get really good healthcare, the rest are left to die.
In the UK EVERYONE gets a pretty good service AND the richest get even better by going private.
Tell me, if you were an alien looking down, which country looks more civilised - sfanetti, on 10/11/2007, -2/+25The issue really boils down to this: Everyone - no matter how healthy they think they are now - eventually will fall victim to some medical calamity. This could be the result of bad luck, carelessness, stupidity, genetics or all of the above. Healthy morons never consider how their middle class life will be ruined by their inevitable need for medical care. They think they will always have access to quality medical care since they are insured and they are hard working Americans. Eventually the morons ( mostly middle income people ) will burn through their savings and pile up a mountain of debt when their kid gets hit by a truck and needs physical therapy. Or they will burn through their savings a pile up a mountain of debt when the guy driving the car next to them falls asleep at the wheel. Or they will burn through their savings and pile up a mountain of debt when they lose a leg because they joined the Army and fought for freedom in Faluja. Do you see a pattern here?
Rich smart people ( and rich idiots advised by smart people ) are willing to lie to the morons about the nature of the health care system in this country. They pay lobbiests, public relations firms, politicians, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O' Really? and a host of other media channels handsome sums of money to keep the morons in America thinking that if they rise up and demand fair, universal, free healthcare - yes by taxing the rich and - it will be the end of America and the Communist pall will decend upon us all. - DynamiteMonkey, on 10/11/2007, -2/+25"So, if Americans are paying so much and they're not getting as good or as much care, where is all the money going? "Overhead for most private health insurance plans range between 10 percent to 30 percent," says Deloitte health-care analyst Paul Keckley. Overhead includes profit and administrative costs. "Compare that to Medicare, which only has an overhead rate of 1 percent. Medicare is an extremely efficient health-care delivery system," says Mark Meaney, a health-care ethicist for the National Institute for Patient Rights."
Very interesting part of this article. You might dislike the "waiting time" for Canadians in the Canadian system (which I have personally never experienced - when I need care fast, I get care fast), but imagine if you pumped all the money you're already pumping into a ***** healthcare system into universal health care. The main problem with ours is that we don't fund it enough! With that much funding and that little overhead you would have a hell of a system. The money is there already, just get rid of the middleman!
And while I'm at it, is it just me or is the captcha system really really broken? Audio says ULT4S and image says phsEe, and neither works. I have to copy this whole block of text and reload the comments page and hope the next one works. This has been happening to me since the new system came about.. - tkdvipers, on 10/11/2007, -3/+25Do you guys think that in a UHC the government decides who gets health care?
I'm in the U.K and the government here does not decide who gets health care. You go to the doctor and they decide how to fix you that is it. I recently had a problem went to the doctor on a Monday then had surgery on the Tuesday.
Obviously there are some issues but thats because there is one major flaw in the system... That is, humans we are the ones that cause the errors even if we had a perfect system on paper as soon as you include humans it will develop flaws.
As for not wanting to pay for someone else's health care, I have never even thought of it like that. I can see the point being made by the people who are against including a tax for this. But I don't agree with it. I don't want to generalize however it seems that from birth Americans are taught that a welfare state is bad bad bad.
I certainly don't believe someone should be given a free ride however I do believe if someone needs help we should pull together to support them. - obliviousfool, on 10/11/2007, -7/+28If we had a universal health care system it would make laws tying health care to full-time employment irrelevant. In other words, you would be paying for it through your taxes, but you would not be paying for it for your full-time employees. It would bring us up to the level of other industrialized nations and make us more competitive. It is a very pro-business stance. Unless, of course, your business is health insurance!
- johnhummel, on 10/11/2007, -3/+24Why not? Look at the British system - for the mass portion of the population, there's the free system. If you really want to pay for "the best of the best" medical care, you're certainly allowed to do that as well - but that's out of your own pocket.
- Aggaman, on 10/11/2007, -5/+24Don't worry about that. Right wingers are intent on privatizing everything. I'm looking forward to the day when New York burns to the ground because of a dispute between rival private fire fighting companies over who should get paid.
- spudnic, on 10/11/2007, -1/+19This might be a redundant comment, but I figure it's worth providing a vote for nationalized healthcare to counter the 'my uncle's friend who lives in country X says you have to wait a long time' type comments.
I live it the UK and fully support the NHS, I think it's fantastic. My longest ever wait was 2 hours, and that was for something extremely non-life threatening. - nosecohn, on 10/11/2007, -3/+20The problem with that is that people won't pay for the preventative care that makes residents of other countries healthier.
- mikalveli, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17I don't know how it is for you, but as someone who has experienced multiple systems (Italy & US), I have waited far longer in US emergency rooms than I ever did in an Italian ER. I have two young boys...ER trips are a family tradition.
I lived in Italy for 3 years and as far as the health care goes, they kick our ass. I think the WHO rankings show this since they are #2 and we are #36. It isn't about money, but about making sure you are healthy. In the US, they want to make sure they will get their money before they help you. I don't want my life to be a financial decision when I live in one of the richest countries in the world.
And before everybody gets all crazy, no, I am not a Socialist, Communist, but a red blooded Capitalist American who just simply feels that our medical system could be better. - EarlOfLade, on 10/11/2007, -3/+19I read a comment by Moore where he said he had to cut out the scenes about Norway from Sicko because not a single American would believe it was true that Norway sends psoriasis patients to the Canary Islands and reumathic to hot springs around the world at no cost.
As a Norwegian I'm not surprised he said so, not to mention that Norwegians pay half of what Americans do per capita.
Living here in the US for the past decade has really opened my eyes to how good the Scandinavian countries are and I've praised myself lucky many times to be well off, white and with a good education and job. I would not have wanted to be any minority or poor here in the states, that's for sure. Not surprisingly, USA continues every year to slide down every statistic there is. A great result of the "Me and myself and only me" politics here in the US. As an example, I studied at the University of Oslo in the late 70's and it cost me around $100/ year and the university is ranked around 50 in the world. Today it's more expensive of course, I think the cost is somewhere around $600/year. - relaxeder, on 04/17/2009, -2/+18Sicko did a great job of pointing out some of the flaws in the arguments against socialized medicare.. Namely that our country already has many public services that are 'socialized' like the U.S. Postal Service or our state libraries..
I know some people don't like the idea of paying for other people's medicines, but doesn't it make more sense for everyone to pay a flat tax rate that goes toward that fund for everybody, instead of people paying all of these different tiers of privatized medicare premiums in the thousands of dollars, and then still getting shafted by their HMOs? Its crazy. - DynamiteMonkey, on 10/11/2007, -0/+15I live in Quebec and have never waited anything near 16 hours for an emergency. I will certainly acknowledge that there are problems, but they stem mainly from our not properly funding our healthcare. Consider how much MORE money America is shoving (wasting?) into its health care system as stated in the article. They could create a MUCH better system with those resources.
- kz26, on 10/11/2007, -6/+21Since when was Michael Moore wrong?
- kazamx, on 10/11/2007, -1/+16Universal health care can means queues. In the UK its not uncommon to wait 4-5 hours in accident and emergency if your not an important case (life and death is seen instantly).
However, while the richest people in America see better quality of healthcare, so do the richest in the UK as they go private. But what about the 40% of americans with no insurance, what about the americans with policies that don't cover expensive treatment? How can you be proud of a system where you let your countrymen die, even though you could save them.
People who don't want state healthcare for at least basic needs are sentencing there friends, neighbours, family to death. - relaxeder, on 04/17/2009, -4/+19That's just it -- Privatize anything and just like any industry these companies will do whatever they need to to earn a profit. Every time that they need to shill out money to someone means a loss for their earnings, it is not a sustainable practice for private HMOs to give help to people who need it which why the whole idea is botched to begin with.
- lpmiller, on 10/11/2007, -8/+23mostly right is a good place to start a debate.
- KMye, on 10/11/2007, -5/+20My favorite line was "we found surprisingly few inaccuracies in the film." Great statement of confidence in Moore.
- KyleGoetz, on 10/11/2007, -3/+18When you consider that, outside of the original 13 colonies, most of America's history /was/ dog-eat-dog, then it becomes a little clearer. Even in the original colonies, often it was dog-eat-dog versus the weather and the natives. As Americans moved further out west, we continued to be "rugged individualists" rather than community-oriented people.
It explains a lot about Texans, a strongly conservative people. Texas was founded by people tearing the state away from Mexico and forming their own country. Guns and executions were normal. Fights with natives were. Self-reliance was important. Thus, you get a state with lots of guns, state-sponsored executions, and a keep-my-own-money-dammit mentality.
Also, you figure that mainstream US culture is less than 250 years old. Contrast this with Europe, where the culture may be different than it was 2000 years ago, but it evolved continuously by the same people for the most part. Germans have been in Germany for a very long time. French have been in France for a very long time.
Contrast this with Americans, who came to the US less than 250 years ago and had to fight tooth and nail to not get destroyed by the hostile environment. Much of the US is where most of Europe was around 1000 AD. Vengeful executions by the state, religious fundamentalism trumping scientific inquiry, and a strong suspicion of one's neighbors. - ynggrsshppr, on 10/11/2007, -5/+20Good points all around. HMOs have a conflict of interest, how do they both take care of you and maximize profits at the same time? It is zero sum. If the government took over there would be no such problem.
- GreyICE, on 10/11/2007, -3/+17By mostly right, CNN means that they consider there were errors of omission. Since none of these errors were that stunning (read the article) its a good place to start a debate.
Errors of omission are natural. If you think that one two hour move, or even one college course, can teach you every side of an issue, I have a bridge I can sell you. - Shaman760, on 10/11/2007, -3/+17So much for the "Farenhype 911" sequel coming out. Mr. Moore seems to have presented irrefutable truths here.
- JayD16, on 10/11/2007, -4/+18"i never liked the thought of paying for someone elses sickness."
Does the idea of other people's cars on YOUR roads infuriate you too? - mikebiglan, on 10/11/2007, -2/+15"we found surprisingly few inaccuracies in the film." Surprisingly??
- Jaynix, on 10/11/2007, -1/+14We should offer tax incentives to people who maintain a healthy body. How do you think that would affect the people of the US?
- diggumjonez, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12Then I trust you'll also support rejecting the corporate handjobs that contribute to obesity and malnutrition by artificially pricing actual, healthy foods higher in order to promote cheaper, processed and subsidized alternatives?
Take the "Illegal Alien" rhetoric out of your argument, and just apply the concept to Americans. What is the purpose of being a rich, prosperous nation if not to attempt to make all of its citizens healthier, happier, and more productive? Wealth isn't just a current balance sheet. In fact, the physical dollar value is often a very small part of true, sustaining, long-term "wealth," especially as it pertains to a country.
Attempting to create something that benefits every single American, at a more efficient cost and better rate of success than we have now, that is less prone to corruption (both corporate and personal,) and that educates and promotes real HEALTH as opposed to waiting until people are sick and rating them at that point, is not entitlement - but it is an extremely honorable and admirable goal to attempt to achieve as a country.
Of course, if you would prefer to not be a part of it, so be it. Feel free to refuse any treatment that might fall under a national plan. - rollem, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13Not only that, but WE'RE ALREADY PAYING FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S ILLNESS. The only problem is that we are doing it in a very inefficient way. Emergency rooms treat illness once they are much more expensive to treat, and hospitals have to bear that burden by charging more to the other users. If there were fair universal coverage, more illness would be treated early on, before it becomes much much more expensive.
- Aggaman, on 10/11/2007, -4/+16I can't wait for the American way of life to be destroyed.
In my life as an America hating terrorist, I've discovered that the most effective way to harm Americans is not by bombing them and killing them, but by making sure that all of them have access to decent health care and lowering the amount of money they spend on it. I've realized that if I cut America's health bills, that they will be healthier and able to buy more weapons to attack people like me with. But Americans are so dumb that they will accidentally blow themselves up with the weapons.
A cunning plan.
Osama bin Laden sits in his cave dreaming of the day when Americans have free universal health care. - NikoKun, on 10/11/2007, -3/+15Funny, cause I've heard from friends in BC, and relatives in Toronto, that health care is way better than the states....
I guess no matter what you do some people will always hate things and some will like things... xD -
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