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- timo1023, on 10/11/2007, -6/+151FTA: "The detainees were also forced to listen to rap artist Eminem's "Slim Shady" album. The music was so foreign to them it made them frantic, sources said."
Eminem was unavailable for comment. - Junkyarddawg, on 10/11/2007, -7/+125"ABC News was told that the techniques led to questionable information aimed at pleasing the interrogators and that this information had a significant impact on U.S. actions in Iraq."
Yep. That's why torture was abandoned in Europe in the 17th century: not because it was inhumane, but because it produced unreliable intel. Torture is great if what you want is a confession and you don't care if the person confessing is really guilty or not - showtrial stuff - but useless if you want to extract tactical information. - vertinox, on 10/11/2007, -5/+123The problem with torture is that the victim tells you what he thinks will make the torture stop. Often times if they don't know then they will start to make stuff up or just blurt out rumors they may or may not know the whole story on.
If you are asking for a list of names, the victim might add people that had nothing to really do only because in that state of mind they aren't really sure and will keep talking until they hope you finally hear something that will make it stop.
And if you torture them because you accuse them of what they are saying to be a lie... They will actually start to believe that what is really true is false.
Also if you accuse them of something they did not do, they will also start to believe they committed the crime as well even if is completely false. - Junkyarddawg, on 10/11/2007, -4/+116Remember to tape it and post to youtube.
- mwsherman, on 10/11/2007, -6/+118I can't wait to try out this water boarding thing on my friends.
- bobthebruce123, on 10/11/2007, -8/+88FTA: They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half minutes before begging to confess.
The article does not say if each of the CIA operatives confessed to begin the second gunmen on the grassy knoll or not. Though "I mean you can get anyone to confess to anything if the torture's bad enough," said former CIA officer Bob Baer....and the article highlights negative effects of such techniques. - interg12, on 10/11/2007, -10/+83@cGt2099 (#6785372)
are you seriously asking if torture is still relevant? Didn't it come up in nearly every question at the RNC presidential debate? - DrDragun, on 10/11/2007, -5/+73Doesn't seem that bad, until you read how it triggers your reflexes.
It triggers you to have a violent gag reflex (in 100% of people, doesn't matter if you're tough) which completely disorients you and violently wracks your body as you spasm and pull as hard as you can against the restraints (involuntary). You also get an intense sensation of being suffocated and asphyxiation. - roodammy44, on 10/11/2007, -13/+77Torture is always wrong.
People will say whatever you want them to say if you torture them.
I think I can say this for europe that we are ashamed at how america is turning from the hope of freedom and rights into a torturous facist state. - flernk, on 10/11/2007, -6/+68Aren't we missing a basic element of our own Constitution?
This is cruel and unusual. - Tyorant, on 10/11/2007, -8/+70If I had to listen to too much of Eminem's "Slim Shady" album i'd confess too.
- maskidat, on 10/11/2007, -5/+61McCain: "It's not about terrorists, it's about us. It's about what kind of country we are."
And when I hear otherwise-normal people comment about wanting to "torture 'those people' myself" I get nervous... - robdiggity, on 10/11/2007, -5/+51Just curious: at what age does something lose relevance? One year? Six months? Is it that you aren't entertained by it any longer ? Has its novelty gone stale?
Declaration of Independence? Stale. Men walking on the moon? Stale. Holocaust? Boring. Mainstream use of torture? Ho-hum.
Your birth? Snore.
You are the physical manifestation of why we are failing right now as human beings. - Godwhacker, on 10/11/2007, -9/+55JFK once said "There is little value in the survival of our nation if it's traditions do not survive with it."
This is disgusting. America, how low you have fallen. - Homunculiheaded, on 10/11/2007, -2/+42"Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?"-1984
Torture is purely an exercise of power, plain and simple. To talk about it as anything but is a diversion. - tHePeOPle, on 10/11/2007, -3/+41Yeah, and several of them morphed into some retarded version of Jack Bauer.
Republican Candidate, feigning stern look: "I support doing whatever it takes to get some guy in some impossible hypothetical ***** situation to confess. Vote for me, or the terrorists win." - DrDragun, on 10/11/2007, -6/+43oh yeah of course I can resist this torture, I am so tough I know how to suppress my gag reflex like no one. O wait i mean.....
damn - loveandrockets, on 10/11/2007, -1/+31I remember watching a show about a Nazi interrogator who used--get this--civilized conversation--to get information.
One time the Nazis wanted to know why RAF planes began shooting red bullet tracers. The SS wanted to torture people but this interrogator took an RAF pilot out for a walk. They talked about all sorts of things unrelated to the war until finally the interrogator asked why RAF planes shot red tracers. The pilot said "Oh, that tells us we have 100 rounds left."
The interrogator then released the information to the Luftwaffe.
I guess this administration isn't interested in history or even the History Channel. well, maybe they are. Some of those techniques were perfected by the SS. Standing without relief was called the "Little Ease" and was very effective. - TexMurphy, on 10/11/2007, -6/+35Bush should be impeached for these crimes. Neocons have no morrality. The people that say torture is not bad are usually the same people who never go to wars for there country because there spineless.
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Video of water boarding by ex Vets that went through US army SERE's.
http://www.current.tv/pods/controversy/PD04399 - bolerobell, on 10/11/2007, -1/+28Are you implying that if an insurgent kidnaps an American (well, really any westerner) and beheads them, that it gives us permission to torture people in our custody that are not necessarily responsible for such beheadings?
I don't think that "you are responsible for the crimes of your neighbor" has ever been the law in any country at any time.
Beyond that though, I do not adhere to the school of thought that states that because our enemies act like barbarians, we are allowed to. I hope most other Americans feel the same way. - Haohmaru, on 10/11/2007, -1/+26Even with the knowledge it won't kill you or cause any damage you crack in seconds. That's pretty scary stuff.
- Shaman760, on 10/11/2007, -0/+21That'll be great! Kids waterboarding themselves for fun.....until someone dies....then it will be made illegal and again, the hypocrisy of our government will be shone to light.
- MichaelBradley, on 10/11/2007, -1/+21have you ever had to hold your breath 14 seconds while you were thinking you were about to die?
- SuperCUBE, on 10/11/2007, -1/+20I'm sure you would last even less if you noticed "Oh *****. I'm going to die"
- kevin_qnn, on 10/11/2007, -6/+24cause the fact that its 2 years old means that it is no longer true, interesting, or relevant
- Pfhreak, on 10/11/2007, -0/+16"I would fully expect a regime to waterboard a confession out of me if they felt that the security of their children's future depended on information I had."
Here's the problem with your argument: torture has been demonstrated, repeatedly over the course of centuries, to be unreliable. The person being tortured will tell you whatever he thinks he needs to make you stop, whether it's true or not, which makes it useless as an information extraction technique. All it's useful for is letting cruel people get their jollies, and getting somebody to confess to anything, even if that confession is false.
The full argument agains torture boils down to: torture is inhumane, illegal, and useless. Much as you proponents of torture like to focus on the inhumane part to label us pansy-assed wusses, there's still two other points you mostly ignore. - skyfire1, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17In tv shows like 24 they depend their lives on the tortured suspect. IRL the suspect could just lie and everyone dies. That's why torture never works.
- Terr01, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17How can a topic mentioned so prominently in the 2007 Republican primary debates be irrelevant?
- stepnw1f, on 10/11/2007, -2/+17Only stupid people fall for that notion that torture is a dependable means to gaining intelligence. For others it's obviously a power trip, which says alot about the psychi of those advocating torture. People being tortured will say anything to stop the pain.
I swear, everything this sick/evil administration has done, has emboldened the "enemy" and created more radicals. I really do think it was their number one agenda, to create a never-ending war.... and man has it been profitable for the wealthy, so profitable our country is in the largest debt in US history, while at the same time, enjoying tax referrals that the poor and middle class have to pay. Heckuva job in bilking American tax payers and rewarding sociopaths.
One thing you have to wonder, is what these freaks do in their spare time..... - Swift2, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14Seriously, Vladimir Bukovsky, the Soviet dissident, was tortured in a psychiatric prison the the Soviet Union. He made the point in an op-ed in the Washington Post that the "criminals" at the Moscow Trials, the ones who confessed to every crime possible, were tortured with these same techniques. Stalin didn't have the balls to call it "enhanced interrogation," that's all.
The Soviets didn't want to leave marks, because that would make the public trial bad propaganda. So they kept the lights on, kept them awake, naked and cold, threatened them with death, and questioned them around the clock until they would say anything. Once they had signed confessions, they let them sleep and eat enough to look decent at the trial where they confessed to every dastardly, treasonous crime possible. "Confess and we'll be lenient," they said. Then they took them back to Lubyanka, let them hang around for another few weeks until Comrade Stalin decided he was finished with them, and then they shot them. - teeks99, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15Sorry, no more slim shady...it was recently outlawed as a method of torture by an update to the Geneva Convention.
- FriedTurkey, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15The problem is that tortured prisoners will confess to anything. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed confessed to the following:
* The 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center in New York City
* A failed "shoe bomber" operation
* The October 2002 attack in Kuwait
* The nightclub bombing in Bali, Indonesia
* A plan for a "second wave" of attacks on major U.S. landmarks including the Library Tower in Los Angeles, the Sears Tower in Chicago, the Plaza Bank building in Seattle and the Empire State Building in New York
* Plots to attack oil tankers and U.S. naval ships in the Straits of Hormuz, the Straits of Gibraltar and in Singapore
* A plan to blow up the Panama Canal
* Plans to assassinate former U.S. presidents
* A plot to blow up suspension bridges in New York City
* A plan to destroy the Sears Tower in Chicago with burning fuel trucks
* Plans to "destroy" Heathrow Airport, Canary Wharf and Big Ben in London
* A planned attack on "many" nightclubs in Thailand
* A plot targeting the New York Stock Exchange and other U.S. financial targets
* A plan to destroy buildings in Elat, Israel
* Plans to destroy U.S. embassies in Indonesia, Australia and Japan
* Plots to destroy Israeli embassies in India, Azerbaijan, the Philippines and Australia
* Surveying and financing an attack on an Israeli El-Al flight from Bangkok
* Sending several "mujahideen" into Israel to survey "strategic targets" with the intention of attacking them
* The November 2002 suicide bombing of a hotel in Mombasa, Kenya
* The failed attempt to shoot down an Israeli passenger jet leaving Mombasa airport
* Plans to attack U.S. targets in South Korea
* Providing financial support for a plan to attack U.S., British and Jewish targets in Turkey
* Surveillance of U.S. nuclear power plants in order to attack them
* A plot to attack Nato's headquarters in Europe
* Planning and surveillance in a 1995 plan (the "Bojinka Operation") to bomb 12 American passenger jets
* The planned assassination attempt against then-U.S. President Bill Clinton during a mid-1990s trip to the Philippines.
* "Shared responsibility" for a plot to kill Pope John Paul II
* Plans to assassinate Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf
* An attempt to attack a U.S. oil company in Sumatra, Indonesia, "owned by the Jewish former [U.S.] Secretary of State Henry Kissinger"
* The beheading of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl
Either this guy is a genius super villian or maybe he just confessed to anything to stop the torture. Tortured confessions don't mean anything. The evidence received from torture is always questionable. It's not worth losing the moral high ground for dubious evidence. - engwar, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13"Muslim extremist thugs are not going to respond to diplomatic pillow talk."
The only answer to terror is for the moderates on our side to work with the moderates on their site to tackle the real, fundamental issues and problems we have. Start making progress towards real solutions and the extremists lose their support because people could start to see and end in site.
Most people just want jobs, peace and a normal life. Pity that the extremists on both sides seem to the ones in the driver's seat. - DangerMouse9, on 10/11/2007, -1/+14According to them digging your ass down, yes it is still relevant.
- joeyjojo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12Torture CLEARLY worked at Salem back in the day to find all the evil witches. N
- wicketr, on 10/11/2007, -9/+21Seriously, please do.
- repins, on 10/11/2007, -6/+17Only the last two are really extreme and could cause physical harm, the rest are not even close. I do not consider grabbing someone shirt and shaking them torture....I guess some people never played high school foot ball.
- Eilarais, on 10/11/2007, -14/+25@merlingen
Sick *****. - fantasticFlan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11We're supposed to be better than terrorists. That's why this is such a screaming mad outrage, America is supposed to be better.
- bram, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11Make sure you get it right. Wikipedia has a pretty good instructional >>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Boarding - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11@ Homunculiheaded
Dugg for 1984 goodness!
I know people who think of the book as a warning to communism, this is partially os. In my opinion, it's more of a warning to any dictatorship in any form. One can easily draw the lines from current day usa to the message in Orwell's fiction. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11Torture is a crime.
Torture is always wrong.
This is not up for debate. - KiTchMe, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11Using harsh interrogation/torture techniques is as moral as patenting those techniques and profiting from their use. Very depressing times.
- Wacer, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10@somedigger5 "No no, terrorism is only what Republicans define it as."
.. and their definition of terrorism includes anything that doesn't suit their agenda. They include, Anti-nuclear, Pro Property, Animal Rights, Militias, and Environmentalists to be terrorists as well. Some other categories of terrorism that don't meet their criteria is pro-life groups, and anti-gun control groups. - fantasticFlan, on 10/11/2007, -4/+14Which one actually mentioned Jack Bauer? That's when I lost it, the real candidates for president of these real United States basing their positions on entertainment based fiction.
- pktgumby, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11Damn, just reading the description of water boarding made me confess a whole bunch of crap.
Good thing nobody was around to hear me. - Dou6, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11This is all well and good. But the real interrogations and torture are going on in other countries. What happens is we drop these guys off with an ally that has no such "anti torture" laws, then pick em up when they are done.
- Hetman, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10I agree cutting off someones head is bad. We are not condoning the actions of al queada or terrorist groups. We are saying we are a moral people and we should not torture people for any reason.
- Hetman, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9I agree america needs to make vast changes to our foriegn policy. We should not torture for any reason.
- amalagaura, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10George W. Bush "We do not torture."
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