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310 Comments
- mixmatosis, on 03/29/2009, -20/+291This whole "war on terror" is a goose chase.
- novenator, on 03/29/2009, -9/+196Time and time again, I found myself in heated debates with Bush supporters who claimed that both 'harsh interrogation measures' (i.e. torture) and domestic espionage were integral components to preventing literally hundreds of terrorist attacks on US soil. I challenged them then, as I do to anyone now, to provide evidence that either prevented a terrorist attack. Just one and I might just STFU about it, until then I will remind everyone, both neocon apologists, neo-republicans, and neo#diggcons that torture and spying on the US public were gross violations of our constitution and everyone's freedom for nothing.
- THETEH, on 03/30/2009, -7/+111People will fabricate anything when they're being tortured, because they just want it to stop. I'm still horrified by the fact that our government got away with this, and that so many Americans had absolutely no problem with it.
- SpinningHead, on 03/30/2009, -2/+75Its tough to convince those people that 24 is just a TV show.
- rac1234, on 03/30/2009, -4/+72FTA: "Others in the U.S. government, including CIA officials, fear the consequences of taking a man into court who was waterboarded on largely false assumptions, because of the prospect of interrogation methods being revealed in detail and because of the chance of an acquittal that might set a legal precedent. Instead, they would prefer to send him to Jordan."
So they'll deport him for more torture before they'll admit they made a bad mistake and allow him to face justice. Nice work, USA. - morningmatters, on 03/30/2009, -7/+73Well, if torture had worked the US would of found bin laden a long, long time ago.
This reminds me, why do so many people still support torture? Morals aside, it simply doesn't work. - inactive, on 03/30/2009, -6/+72Yes but some of us felt much safer knowing that two complete lunatics were running this country for the last eight years. I myself believe we are in better hands today.
- RC212V, on 03/30/2009, -5/+56In other news, former Administration officials admit Earth is actually not flat.
Seriously, it is WELL known and documented that torture is an extreme unreliable method of gathering intelligence. Even when the entire free world was threatened by the Nazi onslaught American interrogators recognized that torture was not the way to go. Honestly I think a major reason torture was authorized was simply anger and a desire for retribution. Or maybe just plain old ignorance on the part of Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld.
Now the question will be, will anyone be held accountable? If we are to claim the high ground or call ourselves champions of justice people need to pay the piper for this. - ProjectGSX, on 03/30/2009, -7/+55Id say its been highly successful. Look at all of the rights they managed to eliminate so far. They have to be pleased with the outcome.
- Frankyfan3, on 03/30/2009, -6/+52But.... but, but... it worked for Jack Bauer.
That's like, counts as proof, right? - induren, on 03/30/2009, -9/+55Washington Post is obviously a bunch of hippie commie liberal traitors who hate America, and our glorious former leader, George W. Bush. How dare they impugn his dignity!? Let's protest this evil liberal plot to destroy American values!
- Elsewhere42, on 03/30/2009, -6/+52The "War on Terror" is just an excuse to let the government invade your privacy.
Wait a minute... I thought the Republicans were all about personal freedoms and less government intrusion into private life??? o_O - diggduggjoe, on 03/30/2009, -2/+45The wild goose chases are the number one reason you don't wish to torture. They will make up whatever you want them to. It is crazy to imagine they won't.
All I can say regarding this article is, "No *****!"
We all knew this. The neo-cons reacted out of fear and chose to leave our principles behind. They had to create a secret government to hide their mistakes.
I am not sure Obama will solve the economic troubles with all the spending for I do not agree with their Keynesian model which accepts Monopoly FRNs as an equivalent to money saved in a bank. That said, I am very glad Obama is at least removing some of the veil, so we can see what is going on and fix it.
I just hope he doesn't stop at some point. 100% transparency of our government and the Fed is required for us to have any chance to right our course. - inactive, on 03/30/2009, -6/+47No matter how hard the usefulness of torture is debunked, there will be some moron who will try and defend it. Most intelligence professionals agree that extracting intel through torture is ineffective.
Besides, that's what uneducated and uncultured idiots in Third World countries do. We're better than that. - Diggnabbit, on 03/30/2009, -1/+37I was so with you up until the last paragraph.
The reason this has not happened has nothing to do with the U.S. attacking other countries. - inactive, on 03/30/2009, -2/+32Torture never was, is, or will be a reliable source to get info, this isnt 24, under duress people will say anything, because all the woman tortured in the witch trials were really witches right? i mean they confessed so it must be true!
- ApokalypseNow, on 03/30/2009, -0/+26@mrtymcfly
The *liberal* agenda?! Who the ***** do you think was in office for the previous 8 years eroding our rights? Ignoring the Constitution? Starting wars without solid evidence?
"Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." --Thomas Jefferson
Indeed, it was Mr. Jefferson again who told us that "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Wouldn't you feel a lot better about trying to take the moral high-ground if you'd actually earned it? - temujin1234, on 03/30/2009, -1/+27Proof enough. 24 is a documentary, filmed in real-time.
- roodammy44, on 03/30/2009, -0/+24Or whether the defense department are concealing evidence of aliens.
Or whether they've hushed up the second coming of jesus.
So why presume the torture works, when there's no evidence for them to show us that it worked.
It's best to go on the thousands of years of evidence previously, which shows that torture does not work for anything other than instilling fear into your political opponents and making them even more determined to destroy you.
You know why atomic bombs were dropped on Japan instead of trying to invade? - Diefree, on 03/30/2009, -3/+27Umm totally wrong. Torturing only served to vindicate and give the terrorist groups moral claim in their recruitment. The "War on Terror" has created more terrorists than it has stopped. The Bush administration was cowardly in how they responded to 9/11. Their policies have only served to cost us our standing in the international community and drain our resources trying to fight terror with pure force.
- TheSkunkMonkey, on 03/30/2009, -2/+26It's the perfect war for the military industrial complex. It will never end since all one has to do is label a new target as being part of the "terror" and on goes the war.
We need to stop declaring war on concepts and labels. War should only be a last resort and only against an opponent that is well defined and can be defeated.
Oh, and there's also that little thing that says only Congress can declare war. So, when was the last time that happened and why are is our government claiming we are a war with anything? - UselessTrivia, on 03/30/2009, -1/+24I think you are drastically overestimating the size and capabilities of the terrorist forces. There might be "thousands" willing to strap a bomb to their chests, but there are not nearly so many that would be able to wire up a bomb, transport it around this country without arousing suspicion, set it off in a populated area and then go do it again.
There's a reason they use suicide bombers. Those people tend to have nothing left to live for. They've lost their families or something else terrible has happened. They are filled with fear and anger and they can be convinced to press a button to end their own lives.
You won't find nearly so many that are willing to plant a bomb in a marketplace and detonate it from a distance. they'd have to live with the consequences and the guilt of their actions.
What you're describing is a highly trained mercenary force. That's not what these people are. They're peasants who have been handed AK-47s and shown briefly how to point and shoot them. A small handful of them are trained enough to build a bomb, but those individuals are too valuable to sacrifice in battle, let alone roam around the US doing so again and again.
Torture isn't going to help you any. Satellites to look for training camps, spies to infiltrate cells and special operations to take out targets are what works. We're doing that now, and the rest of this war is just a distraction and is only increasing our enemies numbers. - Hetman, on 03/30/2009, -0/+23Did you RTA? From the link you submitted.
"The huge international surveillance operation to monitor the meetings, movements, travel, spending and the aspirations of a large group of people, began in December last year but senior officials only decided to make the raids in the last 24 hours.
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke, the Metropolitan Police's head of anti-terrorism, said: "Last night the investigation reached a critical point when the decision was taken to take urgent action to disrupt what we believed was being planned," said Mr Clarke.
It is believed that the raids were triggered by intelligence received from abroad.'
It says nothing about torture. - SpinningHead, on 03/30/2009, -2/+25Scared? They're recruiting went through the roof during the Bush years? Do you live in a fact-proof bunker?
- scottknick, on 03/30/2009, -2/+24So you believe in torturing people -- many of them innocent -- in order to instill fear in the enemy?
You know that's called terrorism, don't you? - MWeather, on 03/30/2009, -0/+22@mrtymcfly "temporary measures are needed to deal with ***** that want to blow us up"
Temporary? Ok, when will these measures no longer be needed, keeping in mind that terrorism has always and will always exist. - wpc33, on 03/30/2009, -0/+21Nice Guy Eddie: If you ***** beat this prick long enough, he'll tell you he started the goddamn Chicago fire. Now, that don't necessarily make it ***** so!
- Reservoir Dogs - Harabeck, on 03/30/2009, -1/+19It's true, and it's been known for centuries and ignored by many. A torture victim just wants to tell you what you want to hear to make the torture stop. Or, they can just lie to you. Torture has never proved to be useful for anything other than instilling fear in a populace.
- Disgod, on 03/30/2009, -2/+19No, it was a Republican Administration. Trying to distance yourselves from Bush is just a lame attempt at revisionist history. The Republican party was 100% behind him up until supporting him became a liability and now you want to revise the last 8 years of history. Sorry, people aren't that stupid.
- LilRabbitFooFoo, on 03/30/2009, -1/+18Um, does that mean you hold the Bush administration responsible for being in charge during the worst attack in modern US history? You can't give them "credit" for the last part of the administration without holding them responsible to being the only administration caught with its pants so far down around its knees on 9-11.
Or if you DON'T hold them responsible, then you assume acts of terrorism are just one other category of "random acts of violence" (as history has shown us) and you can't give any administration credit for the times when we all get lucky.
If no act of terrorism exists on US soil during the Obama administration, I predict the GOP will claim credit, ex post facto, as their "policies" kept America safe. And if the worst does happen, I predict the GOP will claim it's Obama's fault. Oh the hypocrisy. 8) - THEchemisTREE, on 03/30/2009, -7/+24This is just the beginning...
- LilRabbitFooFoo, on 03/30/2009, -2/+18You need to add the /s or the right wingnuts will digg you up for "speaking truth to power". 8P
- LilRabbitFooFoo, on 03/30/2009, -1/+17Actually, history has shown that LAW ENFORCEMENT works. Going into Afghanistan to actually go after the criminals that attacked the US on 9-11 was the right thing to do...until the moron Bush sent everyone into Iraq on some vainglorious chickenhawk revenge for oil crusade. What an idiot.
- publiclurker, on 03/30/2009, -1/+17Gladly, as soon as the republicans disavow Bush and send him out for war crime trials. Otherwise, you are as responsible for him as Al Qaeda is for the attack on 9-11.
- THETEH, on 03/30/2009, -2/+18Torturing our prisoners only served to give the Muslim world one more reason to hate our guts. Not to mention that it made us look like ridiculous hypocrites for acting like terrorists in the name of fighting terrorism. America is better than that.
- kemp34, on 03/30/2009, -1/+17#1 numerous liars are quoted heavily in that article, making it questionable on its face.
#2 where do you get that Kalid Sheik Mohammad being waterboarded foiled this alleged threat? - novenator, on 03/30/2009, -0/+16Helloo...McFly!
wtf was that quasi-ad hominem hidden under someone elses comment? I'm not a zealot of any accord, but I do believe in the constitution. Aren't you the one that supports a 'constitutional convention' to strip out many of the basic rights afforded to us under the bill of rights?
Also, I'm still waiting for your evidence that one single attack was prevented. - Diggnabbit, on 03/30/2009, -0/+15Or what did happen.
- inactive, on 03/30/2009, -3/+18Ummm... Didn't 9/11 happen while Bush was in office and Cheney was in charge of the White House Terrorist Task Force?
- pintomp3, on 03/30/2009, -2/+16Why don't you provide an example of torture working outside of movies and TV? While you are at it, please explain why Japanese were tried and hung for waterboarding US soldiers. Where they wrongfully prosecuted?
- ElSnuggles, on 03/30/2009, -1/+15I blame "24" and shows like it. John McClain (Die Hard, duh) beats up bad guy and he spills his guts.
- kemp34, on 03/30/2009, -1/+15Please cite source.
- Hetman, on 03/30/2009, -1/+15Do you have some evidence of this? Not that it matters. Torture is barbaric and should not be practiced by any civilized country.
- jeffbw, on 03/30/2009, -4/+17The "war on terror" is what the Military Industrial Complex came up with to replace the "communist threat". Weapons industry = really big money and really big power, so how the hell do we excuse a military bigger than all the rest of the worlds' put together if there's no threat? So to make a bunch of failed Saudi and Egyptian halfwits seem a big deal to the American people, they hired folks at the top level of government who would let idiots with boxcutters fly airplanes into the World Trade Center despite the fact that the FBI knew about the plot for two years in advance. Then they started a war of choice which was guaranteed to stir up the terrorist hornet's nest even worse. Bingo! More terror, more war, more big money for the war pigs.
- jmac9, on 03/30/2009, -6/+19Bush-Cheney are war criminals. The facts are available through a variety of sources.
Spain and other countries will start indictment charges of torture. Bush-Cheney broke the laws both national and international.
Epitaph on the Iraqi War Memorial ------- They died for oil, and Bush-Cheney lies.
Too bad for these right wing whackos who hate America for its freedom of information access, civil liberties, and its rule of law. They must be a bunch of Nazi-loving fascists who, just like the Nazis, say that if we do torture it's OK -- but if any others do it then it's illegal and they are bad.
Bush-Cheney, Rice, Rove, Rumsfeld lied and now 80,000 Americans and 1,300,000 Iraqis have been killed and injured -- and $12 Billion a month is wasted ----------- All due to Israel and oil. - MisterEX, on 03/30/2009, -2/+15"Ay, but I fear you speak upon the rack, Where men enforced do speak anything."
-William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice. Act 3, Scene 2. - MWeather, on 03/30/2009, -3/+16@mrtymcfly "i don't get it. why afghanistan?"
Because that's where the people who attacked us on 9/11 are. - trac10, on 03/30/2009, -0/+12Apparently, no one in the previous administration understood the definition of the word martyr. If one sees death as the ultimate proof of one's devotion to something, how is leading them down that path a smart move?
And, as far as intelligence gathering, weren't we instructed that it was faulty intelligence that led us to believe there were WMD's in the first place?
Just wondering... - gobbleplex, on 03/30/2009, -2/+14"Besides, that's what uneducated and uncultured idiots in Third World countries do. We're better than that."
Don't worry, the right wing brigade is trying to fix that problem! - dman24752, on 03/30/2009, -4/+16A few members of the Bush administration should be in jail right now.
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