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281 Comments
- Beautyon, on 10/12/2007, -10/+175The T-shirt simply read, "Peace Is Priceless" http://www.prisonplanet.tv/images/july2006/050706shirt.jpg . It did not say "Down With Bush!" or any one of the thousands of anti war slogans that are provocative (and nonetheless totally protected speech btw).
This is not funny. This is not a time for sarcasm. America is being torn to pieces by these idiots. The question is, what are you going to do about it? - helix400, on 10/12/2007, -4/+94Let the guy go to court, and watch the judge throw it out and ream the cop for being such a moron.
I don't like that the guy had to get arrested and go to court over this, but there are stupid cops out there, and the court system is a check against that. - Beautyon, on 10/12/2007, -12/+92You are completely ignorant. This story is from http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_956.shtml and infowars is merely repeating it verbatim.
There is no such thing as a 'conspiracy theorist'. There are only people who print the facts and those who do not. People like you who have your heads in the sand are the cause of all America's problems. You make every decent person sick to their stomachs. - jjk5, on 10/12/2007, -19/+96@candiru:
What? How is Straight Pride any different from Gay Pride or Black Pride, or Irish Pride? - flag564, on 10/12/2007, -27/+104In other words:
"Shirts that say what I dont like need to be taken away. Shirts that say what I like need to be protected."
A shirt where someone is pround to be straight is a hate crime, but a shirt where someone is proud to be gay isnt? - Artifez, on 10/12/2007, -4/+70They Hate Our Freedom*
*restrictions apply - jaguar, on 10/12/2007, -7/+63It's a sad day when wearing a peace shirt is even considered a protest, much less a crime. Veterans have more right than anyone else to advocate peace. I don't believe 9/11 was lead by the government and I take both sides of the issue with a grain of salt.
- Artifez, on 10/12/2007, -9/+62People who see conspiracy theorists behind every story they don't like or want to discredit are they themselves acting on assumptions with baseless claims. Way to become your own target, Slappy.
- missflibbles, on 10/12/2007, -6/+51Veterans don't have more right than anyone to advocate peace. We all have an equal right to do that.
- NoahVail, on 10/12/2007, -26/+71This is one more piece of evidence that becomes harder & harder to refute that we no longer live in the America we all grew up in. It is now KKKarl Rove's Amerika.
Ein Volk! Ein Fuhrer! - Smarterdanu, on 10/12/2007, -4/+48There is no free speech in grade school, but there should be at a coffee house.
- DesireCampbell, on 10/12/2007, -9/+52"A more honest question is, "How is it different than "Aryan Pride?"
The message is the same, and it's not about being proud of yourself. It's about hating those who are different."
Well, just saying 'Aryan Pride' doesn't mean 'Hate for the rest'. Just like 'Gay Pride' doesn't mean 'Hate for heterosexuals'. And the problem stems from two sources of ignorance:
1. People will immediately jump to conclusions based on what their preconceived beliefs are. If I say I'm proud to be straight, people will assume that that means I hate ***** (or bi, or trans) sexual people. People jump to the same conclusions when I groan at the 'Queer Eye for the Straight Guy' show. Which follows into my next point...
2. People don't like 'me'. By 'me' I mean a white, straight, western male. And people believe that putting other groups in a higher priority to mine will alleviate the long standing deprecations. Like 'Queer Eye for the Straight Guy', yes I get it - you're all gay- do you have any other qualifications? These things do not degrade stereotypes, they build them. Ever seen 'Black Entertainment Television'? There is no television network more racist than that. 'BLACKbuster' movie specials? Oh good god...
Instead of trying to put the ideas about sexuality, or race, or culture behind us so that we can live in a world where we judge people's ability to dress on *how they dress* instead of who they *****, where we 'the Grammys' and then 'the Latin Grammys'. No one would think twice about allowing a parade for anything - as long as it isn't 'white' or 'straight'.
We have a double standard that puts 'me' below everyone else, and that HURTS EVERYBODY. - Langford, on 10/12/2007, -7/+43As much as I hate to think of someone loosing their job. The only way justice can be served, is for the police officer to be fired for this, as well as anyone who may have made the complaint against a shirt.
- Artifez, on 10/12/2007, -10/+46it's a blatant Godwin but for those of you who don't know about it here's a wiki link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire - benhocking, on 10/12/2007, -2/+33@EssaAngelus - that depends on who did the asking. FTFA, all we know is that the cop asked him to leave. If we assume that the cop acted out of his own volition, then I'd say the man's rights were violated. If the owner of the site asked him to leave, then the man was trespassing. However, if the "owner" of the site is the government (which I suspect it is), then I'd still say the man's rights were violated, since the government is attempting to stifle free speech.
- thedonga, on 10/12/2007, -6/+33this is just retarded....
I don't give a crap what my shirt says, I'll damn well wear what I want to wear. This is freakin America...wake the f'k up people, we are going down a very slippery slope. Start fixing it by voting all the religious right out of office ASAP...then vote for moderate candidates...
oh and that VA rent-a-cop? he needs to lose his job. - Ndiggnation, on 10/12/2007, -4/+30@Iceperson That's not true, not all of us lefties support only causes we agree with. I believe anyone should have the *right* to voice their opinion anytime they like, no matter what it may be. I think you should have the right to burn a U.S. flag, or worship one if you so choose.
I believe that the racist, bigoted fringe of already nutty Christianity espousing, paramilitary-nutjob-follower-having Matt f-ing Hale (who is from my hometown) should have the right to say what he wants to say. I simply reserve my right to ignore him or say what I want to about him.
I believe no person's free speech should be restricted, even though I may not agree with it. Contrary to what a "rightie" may want to think about us "lefties", not all of us only believe in freedom for those that we agree with. - danielxmorris, on 10/12/2007, -6/+28It may be 2006, but it's starting to feel more and more like 1984. That article really wound me up, America is becoming more like China with its censorship issues.
- TexasCanuck, on 10/12/2007, -6/+25Poster, you are only realizing now that the country is going insane ?
It officially went insane when it voted in GWB for a second term. - returnofmalv, on 10/12/2007, -8/+27"This is not funny. This is not a time for sarcasm. America is being torn to pieces by these idiots. The question is, what are you going to do about it?"
I am going to put on my apathy tshirt and watch football. - random42, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20What I get from the article is that he was charged for disorderly conduct. They dropped the criminal trespass charges, which would of been BS since the VA is a government building which makes it public property.
You can't arrest someone for not leaving a public building.
This is a public space and he should be able to walk around wearing whatever he likes. - bobbybobington, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18You can wear whatever t-shirt you want (protected by the constitution) unless it is a threat like "I am wearing a bomb" or the like. So any "pride" (gay or otherwise) shirts are totally legit, as are peace shirts... well that is ... untill now.
- phatsharpie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18'If thats the case, then no its no more ok than kicking kids out of school for a shirt that says "God Bless America". But until I see you on the left give a dam* about those guys, then I'll care about this guy.'
They already do: http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/gen/11015prs19990803.html
Free speech is free speech. It's not a left or right issue. We should be defending our first amendment right no matter what political affliation. - NoahVail, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18Yes, we must not express our individual opinions. We must all sacrifice, so that our fearless leaders can protect us. Perhaps in a few decades of this global war on terrorism, a few of our civil liberties can be returned to us.
- deeek, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20Maybe if you read the piece you would know this:
"I was at the Jesse Brown V.A. Medical Center because I'm participating in the Voices for Creative Nonviolence's 30-day, 320-mile "Walk for Justice," from Springfield to North Chicago, Illinois, to reclaim funding for the common good and away from war." - bugsy187, on 10/12/2007, -9/+24"There were kids getting sent home for shirts that said 'Jesus', 'Straight Pride', 'Secure our Borders', and 'God Bless America'."
@flag564
So flag, you think it's ok they arrested a guy for wearing a peace t-shirt? - Bega, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Agreed, but one can easily say they know better than most, the value of peace.
- RaggTopp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Ahh but the request for him to leave was based on the violation of his constitutional right against discrimination, this is what will not only get his ticket thrown out of court, but will allow him to file a civil lawsuit against the VA as a whole. This self righteous cop WILL get fired over the massive settlement this guy is going to be receiving, you can't argue that. Did you forget we live in America or something?
Here's the confusing part......all the vets I know are anti-war, and have been since they were in one. I'm surprised there are ANY vets that are pro war, much less a vet that would take offense to a peace shirt. - frank3000, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16in my local (kingston, NY) mall a guy got arrested for wearing a shirt that said 'give peace a chance"
the charges were dropped after all of the media attention - spengy, on 10/12/2007, -13/+27@McDLT
Yeah, because nobody but the GOP ever does that kind of thing, right?
Face it. Both political parties are full of sheisters. They both suck. Stop trying to make every argument the latest front in the war between the democrats and the republicans. These parties exist to oppose eachother and you're only making it worse. - benhocking, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16@uttles - What makes you think the Jesse Brown V.A. Medical Center is private property?
- mystagogue, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16no, he was arrested for wearing the t-shirt and charged with disorderly conduct.
- aresef, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16What a perfect way to stop these terrorists who supposedly "hate us for our freedoms." Roll back our freedoms, so there's less to hate, then "dem terr'ists" will have less reason to attack us. BRILLIANT.
- mystagogue, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15why is that relevant?
- Tialys, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19I dont understand how one police officers actions immediately reflect on 'Dubya' as he so lovingly calls our president. I hate the types that find any unrelated excuse to bash the president. Honestly, blame the cop, who I agree was wrong to do what he did, but not the president. Nothing he did caused this to happen.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -17/+29"Once upon a time Conspiracy Theorists insisted the world was round."
-- Unknown - random42, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12"Free speech activities may ordinarily take place on the sidewalks, grounds, and other public areas of government buildings."
...
"The Supreme Court has ruled that no one has a right to protest on military bases even if the person is a member of the military. Most federal property, however, is less restricted."
http://www.aclu-wa.org/detail.cfm?id=76
Sounds like a VA building would be a public area and it seems like he wasn't interfering with normal business.
Will be interesting to see what happens if it goes to court and what the VA cop will say. - hipnerd, on 10/12/2007, -24/+36@jjk5: "What? How is Straight Pride any different from Gay Pride or Black Pride, or Irish Pride?"
A more honest question is, "How is it different than "Aryan Pride?"
The message is the same, and it's not about being proud of yourself. It's about hating those who are different. - Zyzzyva100, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14As for the people asking why he was in the VA facility in the first place, does it really matter? He is a veteran, and so he has a right to be there. Maybe he was going to visit a friend, or maybe he was just randomly there to cheer up other vets there without any family. Even if he was just there to make a silent statement, its still his right, he wasn't disturbing the peace by having his coffee.
My (soon to be) father in law is a Vietnam Vet, and I can't wait until he hears about this story, he will be livid. This type of behavior by the govt is just inexcusable! - variety567, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14He was having a cup of coffee in the VA recreational center just like a whole lot of other veterans I am assuming. He was singled out and arrested over a peace sign on his t-shirt. That t-shirt stating a belief in peace is in itself an expression of the person wearing it, hence it is his belief they are acting against. That is a violation of the right to free speech. And BTW any Veterans facility is federal property, not private. Legally as he is a vet they cannot ask him to leave or even force him to leave unless he is posing a danger to himself or others within the building, which he wasn't. Next time think before you post dullard.
- DesireCampbell, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14"This is not funny. This is not a time for sarcasm. America is being torn to pieces by these idiots. The question is, what are you going to do about it?"
Me? Keep living in Canada. :P - stan205, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12If the terrorists hated freedom, then Canada and the Netherlands would be dust.
- delhokie, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13I don't know that I agree with this man's politics, but this is an insult to this man and other vets out there who have every right for their voices to be heard-- Lord knows he earned it by serving. My father was a vet and was also treated badly by the VA hospital; in fact, a nurse turned off his o2 the night before he was released from the hospital, and the doctors released him even with the symptoms of pneumonia he had developed. He went home, ended up in a civilian hospital the next day where he died. The doctors of the hospital were absolutely dumbfounded that he was released the day before in that condition
I say this to say that all vets, including this one, deserve better-- especially by the VA. - elmopio, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Its a shame and a disgrace. And to think we are free. HA!
- variety567, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I'd say that's a good idea.
- cybe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10The Chinese model is what they are aming for.
Heres a nice quote by David Rockefeller on the subject:
'Whatever the price of the Chinese Revolution, it has obviously succeeded not only in producing more efficient and dedicated administration, but also in fostering high morale and community of purpose. The social experiment in China under Chairman Mao's leadership is one of the most important and successful in human history.'
-- David Rockefeller, current head of Rockefeller empire and member (past chairman) of Council on Foreign Relations (http://100777.com/myron) , is widely recognized as the foremost partisan for world government under the UN. This is what benevolent 'capitalist', Rockefeller is on record as stating in 1973 about Mao Tse--tung: (NY Times 8--10--73)" - mystagogue, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11even if this were an isolated incident it should be taken seriously.
- benhocking, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11@pabster - You'd have a point if it was private property, but it wasn't. It was the Jesse Brown V.A. Medical Center.
- mystagogue, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13but why was he asked to leave? his freedom of speech was infringed upon. end of story.
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