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92 Comments
- wholly2b, on 10/10/2007, -11/+28This is a really great report. It doesn't overtly challenge Bush and the war as much as I feel it's obligated to, but it does challenge it much more than most other reports in our so-called "free press".
- Napoleone, on 10/10/2007, -11/+26This President and those behind him are relentless in their pursuit of war, money and power. We can't allow them to commit the same atrocities twice in our name. The world is watching us like never before to see that we get things right this time. We owe it to the Iraqis who have had their world turned upside down because of our previous inaction, indifference and or inability not to let this happen again ever, anywhere.
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." — President Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005
Repeat it: Impeach George W. Bush - archiesteel, on 10/10/2007, -7/+19That's because there is no such turnaround. The Army is having some success in a very, very small portion of Iraq. The real gearing up is by the Bush admistration to paint this modest achievement as a paradigm-shifting victory - and of course, the 25-percenters like you will eat it up like candy.
Oh, and the Kurds??? Haven't you been following the events of the past month, with the suicide bombings there and the Turkish army waiting on the border? - LordSalisbury, on 10/10/2007, -10/+21Diggers who support the war, do you understand the monetary situation we are in right now? It is caused by creating or borrowing more money. This war is expensive and it's being paid for mostly by creating and borrowing money.
The only result that can come of this is monetary collapse. That could mean hyperinflation in a short period of time, or something more like what we're experiencing now, a relatively steady growth of prices until at some point other countries stop accepting our money at their central banks, as China just threatened to do. Then there will be some very sudden changes for the worse. The result could be a depression that dwarfs 1939.
The bottom line is if we keep doing expensive things, when we've already promised to use our money on other things for the next 50 years, everyone is going to stop trusting us and potentially attempt to collect on their debts. This war is ABSOLUTELY unaffordable. - oo7akbnd, on 10/10/2007, -10/+19From "Buying the War" to this, Bill Moyers has really delivered some eye-opening, powerful reports.
- archiesteel, on 10/10/2007, -8/+15What did he say that wasn't correct?
Ad hominem attacks are not valid logical arguments. Put up or shut up. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8"The fact that the lefties refer to him at all is a sign of their desperation"
If you ask the Right, everything is a "sign of their desperation". A democrat could fart and a thousand talk radio rightards would be claiming it was a sign of their desperation. If you ask me, the only desperate ones are the Desperadoes on the right who need to maintain a litany of villains in order to maintain their worldview.
Don't worry. There are plenty of tards out there living really kickass lives. My first wife, was tarded. She's a pilot now. - krnldmp, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9And then Warner goes on to produce a very "newsworthy" recommendation that Bush bring home "some" troops by Christmas, which simultaneously sounds like serious hokus pokus and something any other theocratic regime would amuse themselves with, like a religious holiday has any ***** bearing on how a nation should carry out a war.
- archiesteel, on 10/10/2007, -7/+13Hopefully one day you'll realize how misled you were.
- pintomp3, on 10/10/2007, -10/+16bill moyer's is a national treasure, one of the last remaining true journalists. it's sad how low the bar has been lowered. journalism used to be a public service, not just a tool of the corporate media.
- Swift2, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8After the WMD that didn't exist, and the connection with 9/11 which didn't exist, now they're trying to sell us staying in there another ten years -- what Petraeus will say, if he's still honest -- 6 months at a time. And then, after tens of thousands of new American and Iraqi deaths, then they'll start loving us. What crap the right wing has brought us to.
I just saw a documentary tonight on an American unit that fought in the Netherlands and Germany. There are 18,000 American graves in the Netherlands, and on the day the main cemetery was dedicated in 1946, there were thousands of Dutch people who showed up. Every single one of those graves had a Dutch family that "adopted" it, keeping it clean and decorated with flowers. That's what it's like when you're in a good war. How many Iraqis would do that in 2025?
If Bush has his way, we'll lose another 10,000 Americans, 100,000 Iraqis, and another couple of trillion dollars. We're draining the army dry. And for what? What is this oil bill that we insist they pass? Sure, it shares out oil revenues, but Saddam did that, you know. What it really does is grant the multinationals full access to the oil, for the price of a small royalty. No more nationalized oil!
It's such a mess. Go home, right wing, and confess your sins to God. - Acewrap, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Listen, just because all of your republican legislators are getting caught in gay and pedophile scandals, don't project your problems on others.
- LordSalisbury, on 10/10/2007, -6/+10Stop asking if we're winning or loosing. Ask if it makes any sense for us to even play. If you determine it does us no good to be there, then leaving just makes sense and has nothing to do with what you're calling "loosing".
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -6/+10Twice, wow. How about you try and comment about the story?
- bsmang, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5We don't need to surrender... we can't surrender to a dead Saddam... we just need to GTFO and start worrying a little bit more about America and less about Haliburton and the like.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -5/+9Yeah but Republicans hate criticism so it will be buried.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -4/+8Go enlist, tough guy.
- TearsofaClown, on 10/10/2007, -10/+13Thanks crooksandliars.com and Bill Moyers, for yet another unbiased report on the war. Iraq is doomed and the insurgents always win, no good news ever has or will come out of iraq, nothing to see here people, continue with your anti-war marches and take those "no blood for oil" banners out of the closet, the surge was a ruse.
- jacquesm, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3ah, I love being dugg down :) please also note that lots of people lost their pensions, the good comes with a free batch of bad . If your country is going bust it is better to be in debt then that they are in debt to you. Pity those that have pensions or savings. Try looking at it this way, if your savings are more or less fixed in absolute numbers (say 100 grand), and the monetary unit devaluates (as it usually does over time, in a normal inflationary situation) then you can buy less in the future with your savings then you could today. If you're lucky then the inflation gets more or less offset by the interest rate, if it does not you are the loser. In hyperinflation the inflationary rate so far outpaces the interests that your savings will end up being worth nothing. It's also *not* considered to be a good time to be playing the stockmarket (re. the crash of '29), or to be buying government bonds.
- iching, on 10/10/2007, -4/+7Fascism is alive and well in the US with armchair, wallstreet investors, supporting the fight against global warming and investing in the military/media industrial war complex which they support on and have their followers that haven't' read a book in years, but go to church to find hate to strengthen their ignorance.
- TearsofaClown, on 10/10/2007, -6/+91. There is not going to be a draft 2. The US already won the "war." We took out Saddam. Now we are trying to keep the peace. Leaving now would do thousands of times more risk to our national security than staying would. You think the terrorists and radicals will just go "hey guys thanks for leaving we'll just let bygones be bygones k" ? NO. They will gain the upperhand in the ME and Iraq, slaughter even more iraqis then they're doing now, their morale will shoot through the roof, they will follow us home, and they will prove yet again that you can fool the american left into doing the bidding of the bad guys everytime.
- malkiholic, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3"And it's not 25%, don't kid yourself."
Yeah! Polls are just a liberal, pinko invention! - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -14/+16Man, could we get any more right-wing apologists in here?
- Vardogr, on 10/10/2007, -5/+7Only problem, of course, is that there are no winners in this war. We went there under pretenses which EVEN THE GOVERNMENT ADMITS ARE FALSE. NONE of the 9/11 hijackers were from Iraq, and additionally, we have not found Osama.
I also keep hearing this rediculous 'follow us home' line of reasoning. Honestly, WTF? What logic leads someone to believe this crap? Is there any evidence to suggest that this would happen whatsoever?
By your logic, you just prove again and again how you can fool the american right into doing the bidding of the wealthy elite everytime. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3"Hey Vardogr, what about the other reasons? Like support for terrorism, being in breach of UN resolutions, hampering inspections, starving his own people, mass executing his own people, firing on coalition peacekeeping aircraft, intent to resume WMD development, etc etc?"
They only made those up later. Support for terrorism is the greatest ***** in the world anyway, because pretty much every country in the world does that, especially the US (support for the Contras, the Afghani Mujahedin who bombed away all the communists and seculars from Afghanistan, bombing campaigns in Lebanon, right now support for MEK and Jundullah in Iran). Breaching UN resolutions is also crap, plenty of countries do that, none more so than Israel. Hampering inspections is a blatant lie, Saddam agreed to them in the end but Bush just went ahead. Starving his own people: if that was an excuse for invasion you should invade your own country. Mass executions? Most of them took place during 1) the 1980s when Saddam Hussain was a US ally, armed to the teeth by the US and France or 2) when the first Bush had troops in Kuwait but decided (wisely) not to invade Iraq and (unwisely) to encourage the Shi'ites to revolt and then abandoned them. And 'intent to resume WND development' now? That's just sad... - krnldmp, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3I "sorta" respect him for trying to help the president, and keep the troops alive. In my eyes, that's the best he's been doing. He's not at liberty to help Iraq. I doubt he's actually at liberty to help USA.
- malkiholic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Watch Sen. Warner on Meet The Press from yesterday. What he says there might open your eyes.
- geekee, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Yes, it's called truthiness.
- stepnw1f, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Nah.... minox gets on his knees and drools in front of Bush's picture with quivering lips, "Siegeil! Siegeil!"
- krnldmp, on 10/10/2007, -7/+8What's going on in Iraq is not even subject to the opinion of generals. It's a civilian administration problem now, as it really was from the very beginning. The war was ***** from the start. Although, if Petraeus wanted to gain some respect for and by his country, he could actually stand up and say that.
- Dumbledorito, on 10/10/2007, -7/+8The Kurds give Bush the willies. Let's see... let the only part of Iraq that was even remotely successful be the base of operations for a terrorist group (the PKK) and piss off the Iranians AND the Turks, or let the Turks squish the Kurds and wipe out any goodwill we have with the last remaning ethnic group that doesn't want to see the United States in flames. Sounds like the Kurds are doing REALLY well!
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -6/+7Vietnam remains a totalitarian state. Sorry to burst your bubble.
- stepnw1f, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Why? Because you like the propaganda?
- diggbot7, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1This is exactly what is wrong with you. Don't you understand the principles of dialogue? Why post anything for the mere reason of annoying somebody else?
- Memitim, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1And you remind me of the gambler who just mortgaged his family's home after draining his children's college fund in the hopes of just breaking even at the Craps table. Idiocy isn't a globe; you can't keep following the path of idiocy around thinking that you will somehow make it back to square one. At some point you have to stop ***** up and try something new.
- Obscenewords, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3The Secret Government PBS 1987 Bill Moyers http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2959771621270756635
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -6/+7you are the only losers in American history, and we will not be following you.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Don't count on it from the people who still think they could have won in Vietnam.
- Dumbledorito, on 10/10/2007, -6/+7But Rummy told us Iraqi oil revenues would pay for this war! He said it wouldn't cost over 250 billion dollars! He said so!
He also promised every child a pony. - Jeez, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1This remnds of nazi insurgency that popped up after WWII that killed hundreds of ally soldiers what stopped this insurgency was not US forces it was german populance taking up in the streets and protesting against them. Many SS units hearing about that in radio simpy dropped there rifles and surrendered to the US and British soldiers. So unless local populace turns rises up against the insurgency, insurgency can never be beat this is war that can go on for years/decades perhaps. Atleast vietcong was more or less defeated after the tet offensive..
- malkiholic, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Do you actually believe the ***** you type?
- diggbot7, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3The irony is that the whole war started as the result of an "information war" - from your own President and the CIA. But don't let that stop you from mouthing off a bunch of nonsense.
- Dumbledorito, on 10/10/2007, -4/+5Which corner are we turning this time? We've been around so many and made so much "good progress" that I almost don't hear the car bombs as bad things anymore.
- sabach, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2I wish someone would do a single question poll asking "Have you EVER given a ***** about Iraq and do you give a ***** about Iraq now?"
- Dumbledorito, on 10/10/2007, -4/+5You must cringe during every single speech the President gives. His off-the-cuff remarks must make your standards bleed little drops of liquid pain.
- jacquesm, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Hyperinflation is a *fantastic* time to borrow money. Go buy property, and wtshtf pay it off instaed of buying a bread. Many people in Poland paid off their mortgages when the Zloty hyperinflated in the period of '88-92.
- cygnus2112, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Hey Vardogr, what about the other reasons? Like support for terrorism, being in breach of UN resolutions, hampering inspections, starving his own people, mass executing his own people, firing on coalition peacekeeping aircraft, intent to resume WMD development, etc etc?
- jdubhub, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Very few if any Neocons that support the war here have ever served in the military or, if they have, served in a forward area. It's easy to scream for more war and more blood when someone else is doing the fighting and dying. I guess the only thing that Neos have in common is the broad yellow stripe running down their back. Moral cowards all of them.
- Vardogr, on 10/10/2007, -5/+5"WE" don't have an obligation to do *****. People like YOU got us into this war. This whole 'the american people have an obligation' thing is just a way to lump everyone into this mess and make the rest of us pay for the mistakes of those who should be held responsible.
- lvbuckeye, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0we're screwed even if we DO get out of Iraq.
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