What is Digg?782 Comments
- jkahrs595, on 07/09/2008, -57/+669Doesn't he know? You only get the freedom of religion if you're Christian. That's how it works.
- qdkk, on 07/09/2008, -31/+464I work in a military environment and I see evidence of the military pushing Christianity in a subtle and insidious manner. There is an informal Christian agenda even though it is denied.
- meruru, on 07/09/2008, -15/+196When I started reading his complaints I initially agreed with you that he was just being whiny brat; but he isn't seeking any money so my respect for him went up.
- hamobu, on 07/09/2008, -6/+182From the article"Hall isn't seeking compensation in his lawsuit -- just the guarantee of religious freedom in the military. Eventually, Hall was sent home early from Iraq and later returned to Fort Riley in Junction City, Kansas, to complete his tour of duty."
Going trough all this trouble and not asking for compensation really helps his credibility. - catcher6250, on 07/09/2008, -89/+263***** religion.
- exomni, on 07/09/2008, -7/+170Sadly, this isn't some piece of parody or outrageous sarcasm. I actually have had many evangelical Christians tell me that the constitution only gives people the freedom to choose whatever denomination of Christianity they want.
- Kanele, on 07/09/2008, -17/+164What about spaghetti monster believers? Are they treated well?
- Chairboy, on 07/09/2008, -9/+151Telling someone that career advancement is impossible because they can't lead their troops in prayer seems pretty abhorrent to me. Why do you say that his objection is 'bratty'?
- screamthenrun, on 07/09/2008, -44/+159If anyone actually cares, this situation is not indicative of the entire military. In fact, I have spoken with members of the military to whom the exact opposite has occurred. [Not that anyone on digg will just take my word for it, but whatever.]
One of the men serving who I spoke with did not even know that his fellow soldiers prayed, and was actually hesitant to ask another Christian to pray with him while on duty. However he and about a dozen other soldiers formed a prayer group and asked for permission to use a room for their prayer group. [I don't remember if they met daily or weekly or what, but that's not important.] What I'm getting at is that many members of the platoon or battalion or whatever it's called that he was with resented the fact that he was granted permission to use that room. Why? Because they wanted to watch TV.
All I'm saying is that you can find instances of anything happening anywhere. I do not think it is appropriate that the whole of the military is targeted in this lawsuit. If anything officers and other soldiers who harassed him should be targeted.
I also don't think that it is fair to call the military a Christian organization because of the fact that the majority of it's members are Christian. This comes from the fact that the majority of Americans are Christian [76.5%]. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Unite ...
I realize that Christianity isn't popular on digg, but that doesn't make it the culprit in this situation. The people who did wrong were those who tried to force religion upon Jeremy Hall. If anything all people need to respect the beliefs of their comrades regardless of religious affiliation or lack-thereof. - TheSwashbuckler, on 07/09/2008, -3/+113Sadly, that view isn't uncommon:
No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.
--- George H. W. Bush, August 27, 1987 - jedicor, on 07/09/2008, -4/+104I have to agree with meruru. He's not seeking monetary damages or promotion or other gains of that type. If you read the article, he literally had to have a bodyguard to guarantee his personal safety in his own division. He's suing the military because they didn't provide him what they said they would, a religiously-tolerant environment. His goal in all of this is to bring reform so that others do not fall into his situation and receive unjust punishment for their beliefs.
- RobotBuddha, on 07/09/2008, -4/+97"over something like that" Over something like being denied a job because he wasn't the right religion? That's a little thing?
- Aadain, on 07/09/2008, -3/+96The problem is that the First Admendemnt forbids the Federal Government (you know, the entity to owns & runs the military) from establishing a state religion and from interfering with people from practicing their chosen religion. So even if 80% of the ship is Christian, they cannot have military sponsored prayer time. It's a blatant sponsorship of a specific religion by the state, so they guy's lawsuit has merit.
Now, if a group of Christian soldiers form a prayer group and pray together on their off time, then that's perfectly fine. But stopping all operation of the ship specifically for them to pray is illegal. - catcher6250, on 07/09/2008, -1/+92Yeah, I was watching this documentary that followed a US Navy aircraft carrier and filmed how people lived and what their lives were like (the show was called Carrier). Anyway, more than once a day there are Christian prayers that the whole ship stops to do.
- inactive, on 07/09/2008, -5/+92Could you imagine being a muslim in the military?
- thepeacemaker, on 07/09/2008, -6/+91"And though I am a committed Christian, I believe everyone has the right to their own religion - be you Hindu, Jewish, or Muslim, I believe there are infinite paths to accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior." - Colbert
- BradOFarrell, on 07/09/2008, -1/+84Also, "homosexuals are free to marry other homosexuals of the opposite sex. "
- etherreal, on 07/09/2008, -0/+71Jeepinator: If that was it, that would be fine. Threatening his life and denying him promotions is what the issue is here and that is NOT fine.
- justinmc, on 07/09/2008, -2/+71Actually, umm, that stuff is in the story. Did you read it?
- kosmoX, on 07/09/2008, -2/+71Those people are retarded, and should be laughed at. I apologize for them.
- einrobstein, on 07/09/2008, -20/+83Patriotism is perhaps the most dangerous religion of all.
- inactive, on 07/09/2008, -11/+75If gods love you so much don't wear KEVLAR...see who you want on your side...scientist/evolution/skeptics...or gods love and protection from spears/bullets/hot oil....I'll take a side of Kevlar ...please
- seventhc, on 07/09/2008, -5/+67I'm not even sure why the military pushes Christianity "Thou shall not kill".
It's like one huge oxymoron. - lordrahl, on 07/09/2008, -3/+65not wanting to join in on a prayer (is that worded right?) is not being bratty... we have freedom of religion for a reason. The article says that he had to have body guards protect him. That's definitely not bratty.
- justinmc, on 07/09/2008, -1/+58And, actually, the story you linked is about him speaking out. This one is about the recently filed lawsuit.
- arTech, on 07/09/2008, -1/+57My last unit we had 6 guys who were Muslim. Great soldiers and not once did they feel threatened or ridiculed. Band of Brothers.
- BaudiIROCZ, on 07/09/2008, -5/+58Doesn't the first Amendment in the Constitution clearly state:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
This soldier swore to defend the Constitution against all enemies, at home and abroad. That is exactly what he is doing with this law suit. Defending his rights against enemies at home. - WilliamAdama, on 07/09/2008, -21/+71woot atheist soldier ftw :)
- alperea, on 07/09/2008, -2/+51When I was in, the military would go out of their way to provide accommodations, such as vegan and kosher MRE's. I'm kinda surprised about this, it's probably just a bunch of bad apples he's run into. And I was in the Military pre-911 so that's probably changed a bit as well.
As a matter of fact, I knew a sergeant who was part of the Church of Satan, it even was on his dog tags! - EricaBZ, on 07/09/2008, -13/+60The military needs to join the rest of us in the year 2008. Not all Americans are white-bread eating, Bible-reading, heterosexuals. Hall shouldn't be over looked for promotions because he doesn't believe in god. How is that okay? How does that support the American ideals for which this man is risking his life daily?
- bardamu, on 07/09/2008, -9/+55I'm sure Jesus carried an M16 and wore fatigues. It makes perfect sense for someone who follows Jesus Christ to want to pick up a gun and blow people away. Oh wait no it doesn't. But it does make sense that people who blindly follow faith would also be readily equipped to blindly follow orders (even if they aren't very Christian). The army wouldn't function as well if you had them inquisitive types (the people that have the audacity to question religious dogma and institutions). These same people might just as easily question an order that tells them to use the one precious life they have (athiest = no heaven remember) to charge up a heavily defended hill. Now someone who believes in a better afterlife than their current life might have less misgivings which in turn makes for a more effective fighting force. Just my 2 cents.
- pintomp3, on 07/09/2008, -6/+501. make up some ***** about you being picked by god
2. get a bunch of people to believe you
3. ?????
4. Prophet!!! - Socnarf, on 07/09/2008, -4/+47I worked as a civilian analyst for the Army for 5 years, and the kind of behavior he's describing is VERY prevalent, even among high ranking officers. It was commonplace for my entire organization to have a group prayer during all hands events, and numerous Bible and holy references were used during official presentations. It got a little better for a while when a Jewish employee complained, but after he left it started right back up. The Army is being careful about this because they know how bad it is and have ignored it, so they are hoping it doesn't blow up in their face like a grenade.
It may not be the same in all the services (I suspect the Air Force to be quite a bit better about this), but it is a problem with the Army. - ChristPissed, on 07/09/2008, -28/+71Christo-Fascism is a threat to unit cohesion, as well as a threat to the United States of America and her Constitution. If you need further information google this term "christain embassy".
Kudos (Honor) to those that fight for the U.S. Constitution on and off the battlefield. - Oronar, on 07/09/2008, -1/+44@chispito
No, it's a rights thing. - bovester, on 07/09/2008, -0/+42As anyone who actually read the article can tell you, he isn't suing for any money dumbass.
- snappleman, on 07/09/2008, -6/+48@Gimjee
I believe the article said there were over 8,000 complaints similar to Hall's. You need to learn how to read instead of arguing like a bitch without knowing what the article even says. - mtrip, on 07/09/2008, -3/+44When I was in they had tables with that book 'Purposeful Life' or whatever it's called. Tables, set up by the military, on a military base, with dozens of free copies of pure Christian propaganda for the taking. Not to mention the constant 'group prayers.'
- richofsilence, on 07/09/2008, -0/+41They usually respect all people's religions, just not the people without one.
- zip000, on 07/09/2008, -1/+42Um, yes - I have met many christians that believe that.
- drmangrum, on 07/09/2008, -1/+38There is subtle indoctrination. For instance, during basic training, you're "highly encouraged" to go to church on Sunday. They make a big to-do that if you don't and the Training Instructor has to babysit your ass, you're going to have a miserable existence.
If your job uses a computer, you get at LEAST an email a day telling you when the devotionals are held.
(this next one I kind of agree with despite being an Atheist)
During deployments you're encouraged seek out and form a relationship with the Chaplains if you experience any emotional or spiritual distress. I say I agree with this because, oddly enough, it's the Chaplains who seem to honor the personal nature of religious beliefs the most. Frankly, they don't get enough credit. They're willing to help ANYONE regardless of their belief structure in any way they can. - infinitus64, on 07/09/2008, -1/+38its a freedom thing and separation from church and state thing, not to mention the implications of them being a christian army would be like the crusades.
- coyote1284, on 07/09/2008, -1/+37In the Air Force, almost every function has an invocation, but no one is singled out or threatened for not closing his eyes and bowing his head. I have never heard of an Air Force member being denied promotion or evaluated harshly for lack of "faith". Spc. Hall's experience saddens me. Everyone along his chain of command up to his field commander allowed this to happen and should be held responsible.
- pintomp3, on 07/09/2008, -0/+35army, navy, air force, marinara.
- inactive, on 07/09/2008, -5/+41Christianity and the military make great bedfellows, so it should come as no surprise. Think about it - belief in an afterlife leads to one being less likely to fear death, which is highly useful in a combat situation.
- NJHiker, on 07/09/2008, -3/+37Nationalism is perhaps the most dangerous religion of all.
Fixed it for you. - richofsilence, on 07/09/2008, -6/+37I was forced to stand in a military ceremonies during my 6 years in while the entire auditorium prayed to their god. You'd look around and see maybe 4 or 5 other people not bowing their heads, but no matter what we said about not wanting to present during the praying, we HAD to be to the functions on time (which is 15 minutes early for you military folks).
Or the time I had a family problem. The counselor on base didn't have any openings, so I went to talk to a chaplain. I stated matter-of-factly before our convo that I was an Atheist, but wanted someone to talk to, regardless of religion. After asking me twice to pray with him (of course I declined), he finally said "Well, I'll pray for you." This was while I was still in the chair in his office. He prayed out loud right there with me present. The chaplains have a duty to respect and uphold everyone's religious freedom. Well, he didn't uphold mine. In fact, he pretty much pissed on my (lack of) beliefs. - sodade, on 07/09/2008, -0/+31If the majority of idiots in America were Islamic, we'd be focusing on their idiocy.
- opiniastrous, on 07/09/2008, -2/+33Haha. I think I've been misinterpreted. I was taking a shot at all the people that claim CNN is biased, or not reputable, or doesn't produce anything of quality these days (which seems to be a fair proportion of digg's population). For instance, this:
http://digg.com/television/This_Is_Why_I_Hate_CNN_ ...
I've always thought that opinion was crap, and reckon this article is evidence to that. - ShitStainedBall, on 07/09/2008, -5/+34One thing I would like to point out is that in the article it mentions that he did not get promoted because, quote "I was told because I can't put my personal beliefs aside and pray with troops I wouldn't make a good leader." By those standards, none of the other troops should be promoted because they can't put their beliefs aside and not pray with him. It's all *****. Nobody should be an outcast simply because they believe something you don't. Some might call it misguided Christians, some call it fascism. You decide.
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