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- inactive, on 07/10/2008, -17/+62Matthew Chiroux has made the only honorable choice. If more people would make the hard choice he made, this illegal occupation would end.
- DeskFlyer, on 07/10/2008, -4/+45Here's is the oath of enlistment for the US armed forces (except the National Guard). Read it, then judge his decision.
"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." - inactive, on 07/09/2008, -7/+47WRONG!
It's up to all of us to decide whether we do right or wrong.
Passing the buck and absolving yourself of responsibility for your actions is *****.
We are all accountable for our own actions.
Whether or not you want to pretend that someone else controls is your business, but it's just a game you play to fool yourself into thinking the wrong you do is ok. - Morchades, on 07/10/2008, -11/+47*I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States*
Not everyone feels that listening to Bush is supporting the Constitution.
*against all enemies, foreign and domestic*
and DOMESTIC.
*according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice*
You have a DUTY to disobey an unlawful order. This is why Ehren Watada had a mistrial, because it was the duty of a higher court to decide if the war itself was illegal. If the war itself is illegal, then military members who refuse to participate for that reason are in the clear. - pprovo1, on 07/10/2008, -13/+48Well this "war" wasn't even declared by congress...so in essence it is illegal. If his oath requires him to defend the constitution, then he is doing just that by refusing to participate in the illegal occupation of Iraq. He is a true patriot in my eyes.
- stephenhacking, on 07/09/2008, -4/+31That is soo true if a whole platoon says the same thing i wonder what the gov will do.
- siszam, on 07/09/2008, -11/+36They volunteered to defend America. Not illegally occupy a country that did not attack America. The government broke their contract.
- inactive, on 07/10/2008, -18/+42Many patriotic Americans believe that 1) Bush and his cronies are domestic enemies of the United Stats and 2) Bush is not the president. Sgt Chiroux did the right thing.
- inactive, on 07/10/2008, -3/+27The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 (2), the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 (1) the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 (2) "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.
- superkendall, on 07/10/2008, -4/+27If you honestly believe Bush is not the president, you have worse problems than Bush being president.
- pintomp3, on 07/10/2008, -4/+25it is your duty as a citizen to disobey an unlawful order.
- kemp34, on 07/10/2008, -7/+26***** this Iraq "military operation" - it is not a war (no declaration, no war). These troops did not sign up to police the world and occupy foreign nations. To hell with these "leaders" sending our fine young men to occupy Iraq and be poisoned by depleted uranium while facing a rightfully hostile population.
- gemlarin, on 07/10/2008, -7/+24Illegal war = unlawful order to report for duty.
Im a disabled vet. Thank god I am too disabled to go back. Conditions there are far worse than American Media presents. Iraq is a bloodbath and the blood is on Bush's hands. - Witchboy, on 07/10/2008, -6/+23Okay, DeskFlyer, I read it. But we now know Bush and company misled us and cannot be trusted. So you read this:
"An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law."
Martin Luther King, Jr. - pintomp3, on 07/10/2008, -4/+20the nuremberg trials pretty much cleared that up.
- inactive, on 07/10/2008, -19/+34 An American with honor?
- synthpop, on 07/10/2008, -2/+17it's also the duty of every soldier
- gforce051, on 07/10/2008, -11/+26No one made him sign the papers, it was his decision.
Don't join the military expecting to play soccer and drink beer with the Iraqi locals. - AnarkeIncarnate, on 07/10/2008, -4/+16It is ok. He is not with the government.
- breez, on 07/10/2008, -2/+11"and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment"
That's a very important part of that quote. Sure he may be doing the honorable thing, but he has to be willing to face the consequences of that decision. - soupdawg30, on 07/10/2008, -1/+10Who's the President then?
- kemp34, on 07/10/2008, -4/+12SO September 11 just gives our "leaders" a blank check?
- inactive, on 07/09/2008, -8/+16Matt Chiroux reading Kucinich's Article of Impeachment with the White House Protest Corps
http://yellowcakewalk.net/2008-06-14/palm_DSCN0278 ... - AnarkeIncarnate, on 07/10/2008, -4/+12Their contracts are regularly being violated with "Stop Loss" because it takes time and money to train soldiers. Why waste that time and money when you can just keep your meat in the grinder indefinitely?
- groo68, on 07/10/2008, -3/+10whats with our shiny new fortress there then?
- pintomp3, on 07/10/2008, -1/+8you don't stop being a citizen when you become a soldier.
- cheesechoker, on 07/10/2008, -2/+9Because they didn't join the military?
- inactive, on 07/10/2008, -0/+6thatsmyaibothatsmyaibo - keeping promises and contracts is admirable, but so is the courage to admit that you've made a mistake. I would respect someone more for breaking their promise because they no longer believe that they were right, then for keeping it even though they thought it was wrong.
- pintomp3, on 07/11/2008, -1/+7it is an unlawful war. congress hasn't declared war. they gave bush the authority to pursue war, but that isn't constitutional.
- inactive, on 07/10/2008, -2/+8Yeah, I'm pretty sure Bush IS the president, at least for a few more months.
- Hetman, on 07/10/2008, -1/+7Dear dumbass: What part of "Individual Ready Reserve" did you not understand. Are you that ignorant to sign a contract with our reading all of it?
- inactive, on 07/10/2008, -7/+13the real enemy is here controlling everything, it's not in iraq, afghanistan or pakistan. They sold this country to china and the saudis.
Greatest nation ever, rotting from the inside out - dafunkmonster, on 07/10/2008, -7/+13And cue the dishonorable discharge.
- Renian, on 07/10/2008, -3/+8@Heliox
You watch Fox News don't you? - DeskFlyer, on 07/10/2008, -4/+9I just put it out there for people to read; I actually agree with this dude's decision.
- jgzman, on 07/10/2008, -0/+5The Oath of Enlistment requires you to follow legal orders. There are procedures for disobeying illegal orders, under specific circumstances. I do not think it applies here, but it might.
I should note that the Oath of Commission (or whatever it is officers take) makes no mention of following orders at all. - clyde2801, on 07/10/2008, -2/+7What ARE you smoking?
- Alegoo92, on 07/10/2008, -5/+10You purposefully ignored the "Obey the orders of the President of the United States", didn't you?
- pinchduck, on 07/10/2008, -3/+8He is disobeying orders and probably going to go to jail.
- Agent4156, on 07/10/2008, -2/+7You are correct, it was however a "police action" that was authorized by congress.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Resolution_to_A ... - inactive, on 07/10/2008, -1/+6an oath like an arrow, once loosed cannot be recalled.
- Hetman, on 07/10/2008, -4/+9In all reality he is a deserter and he could be executed. I do not believe in the death penalty for anyone. But that is the law.
- adeptusliberus, on 07/10/2008, -3/+8So when are you joining up?
- Hetman, on 07/10/2008, -18/+23Sorry you do not get to chose when or where you fight. Once you join the army you give up your rights as a citizen. I recommend jail time until all our forces our back in America. And then a dishonorable discharge. I do not believe we should be in Iraq. But if you join the army you should expect to fight and if you do not you are a deserter.
- yosserhughes, on 07/10/2008, -4/+8"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."
Thomas Jefferson. - allan17, on 07/10/2008, -1/+5"The Nuremberg Trials were a series of trials most notable for the prosecution of prominent members of the political, military, and economic leadership of Nazi Germany."
- Wikipedia
Prominent members of the military (high ranking officers). Not grunts. - dracostimpy, on 07/10/2008, -4/+8Everybody's gotta learn sometime, even if it's after signing his life away. My guess is he'd much prefer a court martial to a missing limb or the burden on his conscience of killing to support what he now realizes is an occupation rather than a liberation.
- clyde2801, on 07/10/2008, -1/+5Was in the IRR, and got my DD214 in February of 2003. I am still thanking almighty God daily.
- Hetman, on 07/10/2008, -0/+4It worked for Grunts in the Nuremberg trials. It did not work for high ranking government and military officials. By the end of WWII almost every able body male was in the German army. And many people who were to young and do injuried were also in the Army. None of these individuals were charged with crimes against humanity or any other offense.
- kemp34, on 07/10/2008, -7/+11President Bush does not follow the Constitution. Therefore, he has abrogated the law. Therefore, every order he gives is tainted. Therefore, there are no lawful orders until we return to following the Constitution. This man should be free to go.
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