What is Digg?79 Comments
- boozedrinker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+45Amish people sueing other people? What has the world come to!
- JorgeGT, on 10/12/2007, -4/+45My religion does not allow me to pay taxes. I'm sorry. Thanks for understanding.
- DucoNihilum, on 10/12/2007, -19/+58Ugh, the federal government didn't sit there and think "How can we piss off the amish?!". There is a valid reason to have that photo, if they dont want to do that it's fine, they just cant travel.
- johndi, on 10/12/2007, -8/+36But the Feds used to make exceptions for this reason, and still make exceptions in some cases. So their whole argument goes out the window.
Anyhow, the issue isn't over travel, it's about a spouse trying to immigrate from Canada to the USA. - Wootery, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20Yeah. Religious freedom ftw, but the law comes first, and should not be built around religious beliefs.
Saying that 'but my religion says I have to!' should not allow you to do anything more than your atheist equivalent.
For example here in the UK a Muslim teacher thought she could wear a veil to school because her religion said so - never mind if the kids learning to speak can't see how she forms words.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/6050392.stm
That religious-expression right comes second to her requirement to do her job. (Rather oddly the people in charge seem to be doing the right thing in this case and not giving in to 'political correctness' *****.) - andreasfunke, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18The guy who killed those Amish school girls wasn't Amish...
- positron, on 10/12/2007, -10/+24Agreed. Whether or not you agree with their beliefs and lifestyle choices, one thing is for certain. They "put their money where their mouth is."
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15Hmmm... Amish don't let themselves be photographed?
http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&safe=off&q=amish
Doesn't seem like an iron rule. - LoraxLorax, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13These aren't the Amish you're looking for....
- borninda818, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13I always wanted to try Amish Butter. Wonder if it's any good.
- wheremyarm, on 10/12/2007, -13/+21I don't. Ever heard of seperation of church and state? Just because you have a crazy religious belief doesn't mean the government has to make an exception just for you. This is taking the whole "don't criticize religion, it's SACRED!" thing way too far.
- wheremyarm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Funny you should mention your religion not allowing you to pay taxes, because Kent Hovind is trying to say the same thing in court right now, http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061018/NEWS01/610180337/1006 , and I really don't think they're going to let him get away with it. Tell me, how is this any different than what the Amish are trying to do, in principle?
- vhold, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9"To add to your point, how can they claim electricity and cars are evil and against the Bible, when neither existed when it was written."
Uhm, maybe you should try to read up a little on the Amish. Have you ever heard an Amish person refer to electricity as "evil" ? They promote a very simple lifestyle. They think electricity usually gets in the way of that.
They also try to be very self reliant. Even if they owned a generator, they'd be dependent on those who made the generator. If they tried to build one, it'd be extremely difficult to manufacture all the parts on their own. People who picture themselves as completely self reliant but live in a city with plumbing, electricity, food distribution, etc, are somewhat confused. The Amish carefully consider how self reliant they are and which ties they make with larger society. - amohongos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The Amish don't claim that photography, automobiles, etc. are specifically mentioned and forbidden in the bible, nor do they ban all technology outright. For instance, believe it or not, some groups of Amish use cell phones. A Modern convenience is only banned if the Amish think it will hinder their relationship with God.
- JonForTheWin, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9 . . they didn't take pictures of the hundreds of thousands of mexicans that surround me this very moment. :-/
. . damn government. - andreasfunke, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7This is an Old Order Amish belief, not an Amish belief in general. (there are different types) To an Old Order Amish, a photo is exactly the same as a graven image. Now we'll see if the judge agrees...
- chmod, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9@r81984
When many of our laws (and our constitution) was written, much of our technology didn't exist: computers, the internet, file sharing, digital media, automobiles, etc, yet many laws written before such things have been applied to them. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -10/+14Bible was written..what 2k years ago? Yea I'm sure it says "no pictures thx" in it.
- tylercrowley, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10Its a battle royal!!!
the absurdity of religion vs the ridiculousness of politics
both equally stubborn in their steadfast idiocracy. - mrsark, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8show me your papers
- oxyrubber, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I suppose you don't mind watching TV news in, say LA, where every day there is a new raping, a gun-robbery, many children missing, homeless people assaulting pedestrians for not giving enough change. The Amish don't want to be apart or that world and I don't really blame them.
I wouldn't be so critical of people who actually work hard EVERY DAY for very little reward, whether they are people of faith or not. Whether they should be taken seriously is entirely up to you, but this case has some valid points - read TFA and see them. Read my comment in the 1st thread for my opinion on this case.
When was the last time an Amish person called the FCC to complain about a boob or swear word on tv? NEVER. The Amish are not like fringe Christians who believe society should work around them. The Amish stay isolated and make every attempt not to interfere with society-at-large.
Disclaimer: I'm not religious, but I hate people who judge others without knowing anything about them. Oh yah - and how much would two pictures of one person actually help "Homeland Security" track down a terrorist... FROM CANADA? - jeffiek, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10They're AMISH. Is there anyone on the planet the US isn't afraid of?
All they want to do is live in peace. Let 'em. - mannymix03, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7"Actually, it kinda does. The relevant piece of law goes like this: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
In other words, if you have a crazy religious belief — remembering that all beliefs are crazy to those who don't hold them — then the government has to make exceptions to accommodate your exercise of those beliefs."
I'm a satanist and believe in sacrificing humans, and going on murder rampages, then the government should not charge me with murder, because they have to make exceptions to accommodate their belifes?!?!?
Point is they need to get over themselves and take a picture like all other people - Xenif, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13I guess the potential bribe of freshly churned butter and 2 day old bath water didn't quite do it for the homeland security office.
You win some, you lose some. - CerebralVisions, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4They don't mind being on the security cameras at Walmart
- oxyrubber, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Thanks for linking to a copyrighted video torrent in your Digg comment, spammer. I probably agree with the content of the documentary, but you are going about "spreading the word" the wrong way.
Also, this article has little to do with America becoming fascist, much more to do with beurocracy-as-usual in America. - anonym41414, on 10/12/2007, -16/+18"Just because you have a crazy religious belief doesn't mean the government has to make an exception just for you."
Actually, it kinda does. The relevant piece of law goes like this: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
In other words, if you have a crazy religious belief — remembering that all beliefs are crazy to those who don't hold them — then the government has to make exceptions to accommodate your exercise of those beliefs. - subcomandante, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5***** this *****!
Why should WE conform to the government? They are here to serve us.
They hold their religion above everything else, including government. More power to them. - AmishRefugee, on 10/12/2007, -22/+24i support the amish.
- Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Yes, and it'd be totally impossible for someone to pretend to be Amish if such a loophole were granted.
- mrsark, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3im pretty sure the standard is its cool if yer not interefering with someone elses right. i.e you cant go on a murderous rampage because killing people deprives them of their right to life.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2It's not sad. It's something to be proud of. Weird Al pwns.
- nbx909, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6you have the privilege to leave the country and then come back not a right. So they are not infringing on anybodies rights.
- siszam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My God people read a book!!!!!! Some of you are so unbelievably ignorant about religion and cultures. How do you dress yourself in the morning? Yeesh!
- afpunk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I honestly don't see how having a photo of an immigrant who has never before been knowingly photographed could possibly be helpful to homeland security. The man wants to live with his 2 kids and wife in America, and he wants to do it without violating his religous beliefs. I don't really see how anyone could have a problem with that.
- oxyrubber, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4The issue here (as I see it) is that the couple believe that having a photo taken is against their religion and the US Government can not legally force a citizen to do anything against their religious beliefs. The problem with their arguement: the husband is a Canadian citizen trying to become an American citizen (which I thought came with the marriage to an American citizen). It's a sticky situation for the husband (without winning the lawsuit).
Also, to those of you talking about the Amish breaking their beliefs to file the lawsuit: they know this. If you'd read the article, they are trying to get this done anonymously so the Amish community doesn't learn their identities and excommunicate them. This is how you get ***** done in America: if you can't get the system to work for you, you have to change the system. I applaud them for fighting back, especially since they were MARRIED BEFORE HOMELAND SECURITY RULES WERE CREATED.
From TFA: "The husband, 31, and wife, 24, were married in June 2001 in Pennsylvania while the man was in the country as a visitor. They have since had two children."
/soapbox - milye, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I wonder how they met. Was the guy Amish before he came?
I say they try to get at least a caricature of the guy.... and everyone settle. - Wootery, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"please don't say the law shouldn't be centered around religious beliefs, its not", right you are, I phrased that rather badly.
What I meant was that religion should have no affect on the law - at the court end, rather than the government end. - phantomcrawl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1that is ***** awsome.
- JamesK, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Islamic terrorists will dress up as Amish, load up a horse and buggy with 500 pounds of fertilizer bombs and blow up your barn!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4If you support the Amish, you should have also supported the Palestinians, and the Native Americans. You only support them when you don't need their land. If you do need their land, then they're just "nomadic tribes" who "never built anything".
- schwit, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2You are referring to non-US citizens.
The ability to travel into the US by US citizens is a right, not a privilege. How you travel can be challenged, but the US can not legally prohibit a US citizen from entering the US. - synae, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3From TFA:
"In another case filed two years ago, Buchanan defended the photo requirement by saying Homeland Security officials cannot do a thorough background check on an immigrant without a photo."
I'm pretty sure that the best background check you can do for an Amish person is to ask them. They believe in absolute honesty. If that's not enough for you, ask thier neighbors.
Besides, all the Amish look the same! - oxyrubber, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2"***** the Amish, you wanna work here and you're not a citizen, get your picture taken or go back to Canada. Simple as that."
OMG READ TFA!
From TFA: "The husband, 31, and wife, 24, were married in June 2001 in Pennsylvania while the man was in the country as a visitor."
They were married before Sept 11th happened, they were married before Homeland security increased immigration requirements, the husband should already be an American citizen (by marriage to an American citizen), they are asking for the same exemption that has been given to others (elderly, infants, etc.) READ TFA BEFORE COMMENTING.
/flame - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2You mean there are different... uh, sects? factions? churches? among the Amish?
That's interesting, I did not know that. - Fhwqhgads, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Dugg for truth.
- foxymcfox, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2@ wheremyarm:
"Ever heard of seperation of church and state? Just because you have a crazy religious belief doesn't mean the government has to make an exception just for you."
Separation of Church and state has absolutely nothing to do with your point. The separation of Church and state only prevents the government from calling one religion THE religion of the United States. The law was created at a time when the U.S. was freshly freed from a country that did just the opposite; England.
Also, the freedom of religion (Which is what you are ethereally touching on) exists under the conditions that your religious practices, beliefs, acts cannot infringe upon the civil liberties of other people, nor can your religion break any laws in the process of its existing.
Here's my solution: Get someone to do a highly detailed etching of the Amish people...maybe they could use the person that does the etchings for the Wall Street Journal. Then, if you are feeling malicious, while they are sitting there getting their etching done, BAM take their picture. I should note that the latter portion of my plan is optional. - saloongal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Okay, Let me get this straight. The couple is filing a lawsuit...which goes against their belief, against the gov. trying to force them to have a photo taken which also goes against their belief. But they aren't willing to set aside their belief to have a photo taken...which is required of all other individuals....but they are willing to set aside their belief that "runs counter to their principles of nonresistance" in order to.....keep protect their belief?
So are they Amish for real, or imposters? Are they another faction of terrorists? Maybe they should have DNA samples taken as well.
Mannymix03 said it: Get over yourself....
I say: Never miss a good photo op - OnoTadaki, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I say let the guy become a U.S. citizen without a photograph IF he followed their other rules shuning automobiles and WALKED from Canada to Pensylvania.
- shadekeiko, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Is it sad that whenever I hear stories about Amish people I think of this?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FvC5pZnPb0Q -
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