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Americans: How Ignorant Are We?
tomdispatch.com — Ask the political scientists and you will be told that there is damning, hard evidence pointing incontrovertibly to the conclusion that millions are embarrassingly ill-informed and that they do not care that they are. There is enough evidence that one could almost conclude that we are living in an Age of Ignorance.
onyxcoltrane- 1454 diggs
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- PoliticalMan922, on 07/02/2008, -8/+59Aye, we are a bit ignorant overall. I wish that were not the case, though.
- barfooz, on 07/03/2008, -7/+8People in general are ignorant. This is not some disease confined to the US. He could have substituted any Western country and facts about that country in for America and the article would have still been true.
- FairDinkumMate, on 07/03/2008, -6/+8And as long as you continue to hold that belief(typically a comment without any kind of SOURCE!) the problem in the US will continue to worsen.
- barfooz, on 07/03/2008, -6/+4I attempted a logical response to your post, but your argument is so fatally flawed, it was completely hopeless. I guess you ended up supporting my point, being an ignorant non-American yourself. Congratulations.
- richbleak, on 07/03/2008, -4/+9Humanity is inherently weak and pathetic. We are talking animals and the vast majority of us prove this every day. I would certainly not exclude the rest of the world from this truth, however. History shows that every place on the globe has seen its inhabitants feverishly support things that are blatantly void of any intellectual basis. We have always been know-nothing mouth-breathers that are certain of our arbitrary beliefs. If you disagree with my assessment, go back to your couch, shove your head back up your ass and wait for the guy on the TV to tell you what you should believe.
- jebudas, on 07/03/2008, -0/+2Humanity is inherently strong and amazing. However, our culture has made a large part of our society weak because of the facility of their survival. That doesnt mean that humans dont kick arse though, eg:
Bridges
Art, Literature, Music
The Internet
Space Travel
The Star Wars Trilogy
This list goes on and on... - jamesmcv, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1We are animals, and we do talk, so I guess you could say we are "talking animals". Well done!
- jebudas, on 07/03/2008, -0/+2Humanity is inherently strong and amazing. However, our culture has made a large part of our society weak because of the facility of their survival. That doesnt mean that humans dont kick arse though, eg:
- PhilLesh69, on 07/03/2008, -2/+6I remember an old saying that goes something like this: "The collective intelligence of a group is inversely proportional to its size."
I know that meant "mob mentality" in terms of a group on the street, mostly, but I think it also applies to a general population. As this nation's population grows, it will only get, collectively, dumber.
I also remember reading a study back in the 80's that showed that at any given time in history, at least 1% of the adult population would not even be able to name the current president of the United States.- TimDigg, on 07/03/2008, -2/+5China and India must be doing something right though....
- PhilLesh69, on 07/03/2008, -2/+6I'm not so sure they are doing something right. At least not in terms of a knowledgable and literate populace.
Though, the scary thought behind that idea is that, maybe, yes, they are doing something right, and maybe they are the model that the US is being led towards. A small group of wealthy elite and a large pool of ignorant, underpaid and disempowered labor. - senatorpjt, on 07/03/2008, -0/+2I've always preferred the mathematical definition of group IQ as "The lowest individual IQ of any member divided by the number of group members"
- RoflCoptah, on 07/03/2008, -0/+5WE'RE NOT INGNORANT *RAMBLE RAMBLE RAMBLE!*
- eschompthis, on 07/03/2008, -1/+6A mans wisdom is limited to an awareness of his own ignorance- Socrates
- CanceledCzech, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1Hey man, I'm always willing to stop being ignorant, I mean, so long as my ADD allows, that is.
No but seriously, I'm receptive. Someone just needs to give me some straight ***** info. None of this false or padded sensational *****.
It's everywhere in the mainstream and even on the internet, you can't escape it.- PhilLesh69, on 07/05/2008, -1/+1But you can learn to read through bias and hyperbole.
A good exercise in learning to see through slanted reporting is to read about the same subject in several very different sources. Newsweek and Time Magazine both report generally the same stories each week. Start there. Look at the different use of words, what each chooses to include and exclude from their reporting, what sources they cite, etc.
Then expand it to a newspaper or two, maybe a couple TV news outlets, maybe include some foreign reporting, read some BBC and AFP articles on the same subject.
- PhilLesh69, on 07/05/2008, -1/+1But you can learn to read through bias and hyperbole.
- barfooz, on 07/03/2008, -7/+8People in general are ignorant. This is not some disease confined to the US. He could have substituted any Western country and facts about that country in for America and the article would have still been true.
- kyledeb, on 07/02/2008, -8/+49This is a good piece.
- HumanGlitch, on 07/03/2008, -11/+17Your moms a good peice
- AnOMNOMymous, on 07/03/2008, -2/+2Agreed, it was a great article. I ordered the book, should be a good read.
- cwmather, on 07/03/2008, -1/+2Pretty elitist crap if you ask me. Of course Americans are going to know more about pop culture than everything else, it's thrust in our face every single day. I'm not saying we are not responsible, but it isn't the least bit surprising when FOX, ABC, CNN, NBC, etc. try to pander to the lowest common denominator every chance they get. The media is the head of the social monster that is American culture and unless we decapitate the monster there is no hope.
- thisguy457, on 07/03/2008, -1/+0No it isn't, this guy is just as clueless as the people he's writing about. For instance, just about everything he's said about social security is, at best, disingenuous. For starters:
"Today, conservatives argue that the Social Security Trust Fund is a fiction."
He then goes on to talk about how conservatives spent all the money, blah blah blah. The fact is that the SS trust fund IS a fiction by design. If you were to open a trust fund, you'd collect a wide variety of bonds and with said diversity, you'd be able to create money for a long time. The original SS "trust fund" was a bunch of US Treasury bills - IOUs from the government itself. This is not a trust fund, this is you lending money to yourself. "Oh, I think I want a Porsche today, I'll just lend myself $80,000 and pay myself back later"... doesn't work like that.
Additionally, the whole world knows that the US sucks at testing. Ever notice how we're always "ranked" low as hell, like, with Sri Lanka and the like? Yet, strangely, we release the most patents, we start the most companies, we create the most products.... Weird how that works, huh?
Some of us are really really dumb, no doubt about that, but, this author is just as big a fool and should not be throwing the first stone.
- redcolumbine, on 07/02/2008, -6/+55I had no effin' clue. ;-)
- SoulGrub, on 07/03/2008, -1/+2Too much cable news? :)
- supermajic, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1woosh
- MrSlav, on 07/03/2008, -0/+0good from you!
- greenfyre, on 07/02/2008, -7/+15See also Putting Public Ignorance in Context http://digg.com/environment/Putting_public_ignoran ...
- CoolHandLuke70, on 07/02/2008, -9/+72sheep to the slaughter.
- whatthefu, on 07/02/2008, -1/+48It seems that every American believes that all of America is stupid and ignorant except for them and their family.
- WiseWeasel, on 07/03/2008, -2/+10What better way to make them think that only their government can solve their problems for them instead of relying on fellow citizens?
- tidu, on 07/03/2008, -2/+5I'm completely politcally informed, as well as all my friends on Digg. Everyone else, they have no idea whats going on
:p - layzice, on 07/03/2008, -3/+5No, the family is also ignorant. I'm the only sane, logical person on the planet.
- mateo60, on 07/03/2008, -0/+6Well said. But luckily I'm different. I really DO get it.
; ) - jamdogg, on 07/03/2008, -0/+4Ignorance test question: Which American said "The constitution is just a piece of paper" ?
- FreedomAmerica, on 07/16/2008, -0/+1Bushie.........He does not speak alone with that sentiment either. Almost all of government feels the same way, and don't follow what they say follow their actions.
- poet, on 07/03/2008, -3/+6sheeple*
- whatthefu, on 07/02/2008, -1/+48It seems that every American believes that all of America is stupid and ignorant except for them and their family.
- Equinox2012, on 07/02/2008, -8/+129It is arrogance that keeps us stupid. We don't have to think, we pay people to do it for us, and then crucify them when they say things don't fit what we feel is correct.
"How dare you call me stupid... I'm an American!"- Daniel591992, on 07/03/2008, -3/+21Exactly. I've noticed that, among my friends, the more American someone is, the more ignorant they are of the outside world. Being American and Brazilian, I'm able to appreciate and respect other cultures, something many Americans do not. Thinking that the USA is the center of the world certainly won't help the image of Americans.
Edit: Something else.. When traveling, Americans need to stop expecting everything to be served to them. Not every county speaks English, and not every country has a Starbucks.- DarkShroud, on 07/03/2008, -0/+3I hate Starbucks.
- ruddy, on 07/03/2008, -7/+5or maybe it's emotionally driven diggers using broad generalizations w/out making sense or using sources to cite their claims. if you can tell me where you came up with "We don't have to think, we pay people to do it for us, and then crucify them when they say things don't fit what we feel is correct", i will give you a bajilliun dollars.
i know we're pretty anti-american here on digg, but how many of us REALLY say "How dare you call me stupid... I'm an American!"??- jgzman, on 07/03/2008, -0/+10"We don't have to think, we pay people to do it for us, and then crucify them when they say things don't fit what we feel is correct"
http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2004/02/6 ...
http://www.livescience.com/technology/080130-bush- ...
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0 ...
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/opinion/20080516_B ...
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008 ...
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Story?id=3979695& ...
And for fun: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27539 - ruddy, on 07/03/2008, -4/+1props for linking to the union :)
the links above don't justify saying emotionally charged statements like that. We have a ***** administration, big deal. It doesn't mean I pay people to think for me, that's just too broad of a statement which simply conforms to the digg mentality. its a trap! - PhilLesh69, on 07/03/2008, -1/+9ruddy, you proved the point yourself by saying "i know we're pretty anti-american here on digg".
Just because diggers tend to disagree with your worldview, you ascribe to that an anti-american sentiment. That is exactly the point of Equinox's comment, and of the article in general.
What you perceive as anti-american is actually a differing opinion or an opposing political viewpoint. You don't have to agree with the neoconservative cabal of the Republican party in order to be a true American. They had that attitude in Germany at one time, that only those who support the current party in power were true germans. It didn't end up very well for them, maybe because they got rid of all opposing political viewpoints that might have prevented the disaster that a single party brought upon Germany, if people would have just respected public discourse and listened to the other ways of thinking. - Nillerus, on 07/03/2008, -0/+2@ruddy
Can you cite some sources, studies, anything, regarding this "digg mentality" you refer to? - arjie, on 07/03/2008, -0/+4«but how many of us REALLY say "How dare you call me stupid... I'm an American!"??»
The way it's usually done is: "How dare you call me stupid? America has the biggest economy in the world!" Of course I don't subscribe to the idea that Americans are any more ignorant of the world than my country at least. But watching the BBC from India, the English seem to be better informed of their failings. - ruddy, on 07/05/2008, -0/+1@PhilLesh69
I don't recall defending the current administration, or criticize anyone for bashing it (in fact, i noted that in my comment before yours). My statement had nothing to do with political preference or party affiliation, it just had to do with the fact that America is frequently being refered to as a nation full of ignorant people. In my daily life i don't hear people ranting ""How dare you call me stupid... I'm an American!", contrary to popular belief. - PhilLesh69, on 07/05/2008, -1/+1"i know we're pretty anti-american here on digg,"
That was what I was talking about.
- jgzman, on 07/03/2008, -0/+10"We don't have to think, we pay people to do it for us, and then crucify them when they say things don't fit what we feel is correct"
- zer0nix, on 07/03/2008, -0/+6precisely. it's usually more in the tone of 'i'm not dumb, YOU need to know the facts... (then, in the face of facts backed by research,) oh yeah, well you're a dirty, physicalist, humanist, liberal heathen bastard who's going to hell -who's dumb NOW *****? WHOOPWHOOP, mah christian soldiers stand up, WHUT...'
...that said, i've had plenty of (only american) women say to me 'pffft, i don't know' which i translate to: 'i don't ***** have to know this *****.' i'd say it's arrogant but hey, that just saved me the time of having to deal with this ignorant *****. --of course, it's a bit disheartening just how many of these dumb bitches i encounter day to day, particularly in the realm of higher education.
oh yeah, and 'sheeple;' i don't know who started using that retarded word but it's mostly ignorant conservatives defending the indefensible now. - estate, on 07/03/2008, -0/+2Quite right.
I saw a good quote once that said "Idiot America: where fact is merely that which enough people believe, and truth is measured only by how fervently they believe it." - ruthie3, on 07/06/2008, -0/+0We don't have to think. We pay people to think for us?/?/?/? What planet do you live on?First off I think "WE" don't pay our government to do much of anything for us. Our Government goes in our purses and our wallets and takes as much as they talk YOU into believing they need to do some wondrous new magic or fix a problem that of course we brought on our selves or to help us be safer from ourselves. You had best buy a thinking cap dear. Please be careful where you're stepping too. Our government is thinking our health away for us thinking our right to our own bodies away for us, thinking our imagination away for us, and well in general they are thinking away our rights as Americans and even as human beings. Well maybe not yours
Our government is so close to having 100% control over us (FREE American Citizens) We're Free to Work our asses off and go home with almost a nickle an week when it's all said and done. Then our politicians uninvited, spam our mail, phones, email, and and any intrusive other thing they feel they have every right to enter of ours and solicit that nickle which you sound as though you're happily gonna give it to them, but I don't think you will. We're not stupid at all. This is why you think they WORK FOR US. We work for them. I don't have a mean bone in my body; however, I'm ashamed to say that I do have a bunch of ugly things come into my mind. Usually only when my eyes and ears are open though. So that's all I had better have to say right now. Right. Also if I could type worth a darn I would never be finished with this paragraph. Have an outstanding evening everybody! Stephanie
- Daniel591992, on 07/03/2008, -3/+21Exactly. I've noticed that, among my friends, the more American someone is, the more ignorant they are of the outside world. Being American and Brazilian, I'm able to appreciate and respect other cultures, something many Americans do not. Thinking that the USA is the center of the world certainly won't help the image of Americans.
- boptillyoudrop, on 07/02/2008, -7/+8Nice
- craighoxton, on 07/02/2008, -7/+21America is as America does
- WTFppl, on 07/02/2008, -19/+4My ignorance will not allow me to call myself an 'American' as I was taught, "I am a statesman"!
If you live in Brazil, you are an American!- Mobscene, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1Well, if you live where you do, you are a moron.
- WTFppl, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1That's a very uneducated answer. Thanks for using Digg!!!
- Mobscene, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1Well, if you live where you do, you are a moron.
- chicofaraby, on 07/02/2008, -27/+132How ignorant? Well, look at how many people believed that Iraq could somehow threaten the USA? Look how many think that 9-11 was some sort of battle in a "war." Look at how many think Senator Obama's plan to give tax dollars to the insurance corporations is "socialized medicine." Look how many think Ronald Reagan "defeated the Soviets." Look how many still think that Paris Hilton should get another tax break. Look at the Nielsen ratings for "American Idol."
Un-*****-believably dumb.- PolishLogic, on 07/02/2008, -21/+22"Look at the Nielsen ratings for "American Idol.""
Ugh, we get it. TV is evil, nobody should ever have mindless fun under any circumstances, and bashing the US on Digg is great.
The one thing I've always wondered about you is why in the ***** do you live in a country that you hate with every ounce of your being? Do you like being miserable? Do you like inflicting pain and grief on yourself?
Now, I'm not saying "move if you don't like it". No, I'm just asking you why you would stay in a country that you absolutely hate, when you're not being kept here against your will?- blitz718, on 07/03/2008, -6/+16Hyperbole much? He's saying that people care WAY more about American Idol than they do about Government and international relations and such, you know stuff that SHOULD matter.
There are plenty of things i hate about this country, but theres some things i like too. Sadly i cannot take those things with me elsewhere, and im not exactly rich or set to start a career for money, so here i stay. There are other factors determining if you live where you do other than if you like it or not, and if you dont know that than you are being a bit willfully ignorant yourself. - Jlaugh, on 07/03/2008, -6/+10Yeah the move if you don't like it argument is lame. I like my family and friends, I like the city I live in, I love the wilderness we have, I've met lot's of cool people here. But there are things about America that need to change, and we need to change them in a big way.
- andy314159pi, on 07/03/2008, -3/+14That was a "love it or leave it argument" and we know about the sort of folks who resort to that argument.
- kinseyincanada, on 07/03/2008, -1/+13why cant someone stay and speak out against the things they dislike about a country and try to change it, those who see what is wrong with a country and do something about it are the true patriots.
- MaceSoul, on 07/03/2008, -4/+3Your sophmoric insight into taxes simply proves the postulate of the submittor. Taking Paris Hilton's money away is not going to make a single person in this country any richer, but it will drag us a little closer to communism.
- PolishLogic, on 07/03/2008, -8/+4Apparently none of you have read comments by Chic. I honestly can't remember the last time one positive statement about the US has come out of his mouth.
@blitz
Yes, there are good and bad things, however according to Chic, there is no good.
@Jlaugh
It wasn't a love it or leave it argument, it was just a question. Why stay in a place you despise.
@andy
Eat a dick.
@
What are those that bitch about everything wrong and do nothing to fix it called?
@Mace
English major, eh? I bet that helped in the job market.
Again, why would a person stay in a place they consider to be hell on earth? Especially when they do nothing to change that hell. I'm not talking about the view of "some good things, some bad", not "it's ok except for...", but essentially the attitude of "I hate everything about this place".
Just seems rather foolish to me. It's like going to work at a slaughterhouse when you're a vegan and founding member of PETA.
- blitz718, on 07/03/2008, -6/+16Hyperbole much? He's saying that people care WAY more about American Idol than they do about Government and international relations and such, you know stuff that SHOULD matter.
- Naieve, on 07/03/2008, -5/+9What country are you from?
I'm sure there is plenty for us to rag on.- EarlOfLade, on 07/03/2008, -2/+9My home country is Norway, so go ahead and rag if you can.
- Naieve, on 07/03/2008, -8/+7Ahh the land of whalers.
You do know you guys recently killed about a thousand pike whales right?
If there are as many whales as you state year after year, then why do you always fail to meet your quota? I mean it should be easy if there are as many as you say....
Is it perhaps that you have been killing them so long that their numbers are diminishing?
Hey, I got an idea. Why don't you go kill some more whales in front of whale watchers, they sure love watching the animals they went to look at slaughtered right in front of them.
You should send the Japanese a thank you, they take most of the heat off you on this issue.
Do you want to start getting into your deals with the LTTE in Sri Lanka?
We all know how THAT worked out... - whorunbartertwn, on 07/03/2008, -2/+3Norway = Way too cold for me, plus the extended days/nights from seasonality would bother me.
- Myonosken, on 07/03/2008, -2/+4The only thing you could find was whaling? Lets not get started on your ***** animal killings.
- digitalpencil, on 07/03/2008, -1/+3^^ Whaling.. really. That's what you came up with in response to obliterating an entire country?
- BothBarsOn, on 07/03/2008, -1/+1"Naieve", eh?
- mengland, on 07/03/2008, -0/+3Wow, all I learned from this thread is that either:
1) Diggers love Norway or
2) Norwegians are pompous asses.
- EarlOfLade, on 07/03/2008, -2/+9My home country is Norway, so go ahead and rag if you can.
- solid12345, on 07/03/2008, -8/+10I think the ratings for soccer around the world is pretty dumb too but who am I to judge what people like to watch?
- jabberwolf, on 07/03/2008, -4/+8Yeah because baseball is soooooo much more entertaining!?
- Mullers, on 07/03/2008, -4/+7...and the stopping every 30 seconds in American 'Football'.
- DaDrake, on 07/03/2008, -12/+7Most historians seem to credit Reagan economic policy with the final blow to the USSR.
Secondly... you are referring to Bush's tax cut. Robert Mundell said himself that repealing them will be disastrous for the dollar as well as the Euro (if you don't know who Mundell is, you shouldn't be disgusting economics). Secondly, it is true there was much speculation about Bush's tax cut and its ability to help the economy... but today, MOST economics believe the tax cuts prevented the US from entering a recession. The fact is, the rich pay more taxes (because they have more money) so it isn't surprising they give a larger amount back with a tax cut (but the same portion). Furthermore, there was a gallup poll recently asking Americans if they favor new tax on the "rich" .... 84% said no; apparently, most Americans know "tax the rich" is lingo for taxing you. Politicians aren't stupid, they won't risk TRILLIONS of dollars leaving the US because of stupid tax policy (why invest in the US and pay 32% (possibly with Obama) when you can invest in Spain and pay much less). Furthermore, taxes generally have an effect of encouraging an economic slowdown .... and nothing can be worst when the US is almost at a bear's market.- EarlOfLade, on 07/03/2008, -3/+7Alas Reagan had nothing to do with the fall of the East Bloc but go ahead and continue to be ignorant.
The fall of the East Bloc is way more complicated and if you want to pin it on a single person, I'll give you the name of someone who is vastly more responsible for the fall than Reagan ever will be. Lech Walesa, but I guess you have no idea who that is either. - andy314159pi, on 07/03/2008, -2/+1yeah he talked the Saudis into lowering the cost of oil until the only export profit the soviets had disappeared. The only thing was there was no real reason to subvert their state. The soviets were not a real security threat in the post Khrushchev era.
- Naieve, on 07/03/2008, -1/+4Earl, you do know the difference between the East Bloc and the USSR right?
Just wondering, as you're comparing apples to oranges.
- EarlOfLade, on 07/03/2008, -3/+7Alas Reagan had nothing to do with the fall of the East Bloc but go ahead and continue to be ignorant.
- Gimpyfuzznut, on 07/03/2008, -3/+9Uh oh dude, don't make the American Idol fans angry.
- jabberwolf, on 07/03/2008, -13/+8They were no threat to the USA
But how ***** retarded are some people to ignore the first gulf war when they invaded Kuwaiit?
How ***** stupid are people to realize that sanctions and no-fly zone were not working. That they were getting around the embargo, innocent people dying because rations were being taken for military, and kurds were being killed in the north?
I mean, how completely self centered, megalomaniac proned and complete retardation of someone does it take to realize that IRAQ wasn't about IRAQ attacking the USA!??!
We should have been in IRAQ during the 1st gulf war, got rid of Saddam then when we had international support. But instead, we left, because leaving something unfinished makes things go away right?
And these SAME ***** RETARDS are asking us to leave again, and again unfinished.
You are right about 1 thing: Un-*****-believably dumb !- cannarymburns, on 07/03/2008, -1/+9by your brilliant logic, why aren't we in africa? oh right, no oil, silly me.
- Naieve, on 07/03/2008, -2/+2There are plenty of other valuable resources in Africa.
The problems there are much much worse, and could easily swallow a couple million US soldiers without any appreciable gains to be seen for decades.
It's the difference between a difficult problem and a ***** catastrophe. - Atomic05, on 07/03/2008, -1/+7Right, because we clearly have international support for the war in Iraq right now and there's a clean cut and easy way to finish it that won't steadily bankrupt our economy. Oh yeah, and we're also saving hundreds of thousands of civilian lives without destroying their homes and infrastructure.
Wake the ***** up you idiot. - FairDinkumMate, on 07/03/2008, -0/+6So why not Burma? The Military Junta has all(& more) of the ills of Saddam. It also has a lot of things Iraq doesn't that would make it much easier to "liberate" such as:
* It's a small country
* A population that has shown a propensity to stand up against their oppression regardless of the consequences
* A single ethnicity & religion(basically)
* A democratically elected leader & government ready to take over once the junta is removed
* Clear, recent, globally justifiable trigger points for the invasion. ie. The internationally televised beating of monks on the streets & then the refusal to allow aid from most countries to help the populace after a phenomenally huge natural disaster
There is NOTHING to support that the invasion of Iraq was "reasonable" on the grounds that Saddam had to be removed. Even ignoring the fact that this was NEVER mentioned by the administration prior to the invasion, there are far too many other countries with similar or worse human rights records that the US has ignored(& at times even aided financially & politically). - Rastafar, on 07/03/2008, -1/+2Could not have said it better myself...
*****, why not invade (sorry, I mean "free") China or North Korea? It's not like they don't have an oppressive government who piss all over human rights.
- roodammy44, on 07/03/2008, -1/+3Going against the UN and killing and torturing hundreds of thousands of people without proof of guilt?
Sounds like current US foreign policy to me. - PolishLogic, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1@ cannarymburns
"by your brilliant logic, why aren't we in africa? oh right, no oil, silly me."
Somebody might want to tell PetroChina that, then. They may have been getting chocolate milk from the Sudanese all this time.
@FairDinkumMate
"So why not Burma?"
Hate to break it to you, but Burma is of no consequence to anyone other than Burma. Sort of like why nobody really cares about East Timor, which has been a blood bath for almost a decade. Besides we learned our mistake of helping third world nations when we tried to intervene in Somalia.
@Rastafar
"*****, why not invade (sorry, I mean "free") China or North Korea?"
Are you the kind of person that chain-smokes around a natural gas leak?
@roodammy44
These hundreds of thousands of innocent people we've tortured and killed in Iraq, do you have any proof a widely accepted ballpark figure? Because I've seen numbers ranging from 100k dead to 2.5 million dead, and every number in between. Could you please enlighten us with the be-all, end-all, positively decisive and accurate number that you seem to be privileged to?
- tomasII, on 07/03/2008, -5/+4"How ignorant? Well, look at how many people believed that Iraq could somehow threaten the USA?"
How ignorant and arrogant to think that they couldn't....
" Look how many think that 9-11 was some sort of battle in a "war." "
You'll need to discuss jihad with some radical muslims....How ignorant to ignore a warning shot fired across you bow. But for lefties like you there is no reason ever to defend yourself because the I hate America crowd believes we deserve whatever we get.
"Look at how many think Senator Obama's plan to give tax dollars to the insurance corporations is "socialized medicine." "
Look at how many believe that the plan isn't socialized medicine. Look at how many believe we should take from the rich and give to the poor. Look at other countries with socialized medicine and tell me how Obama's plan is any different. Look at how well government programs always work out and are cost efficient. Look at social security and medicare. Both big government programs and both bankrupt. Look at how many people think they have a RIGHT to goods and services they can't pay for. Please show me where the right to healthcare is a constitutional right. Please tell me that many of those who need it don't get free healthcare now.
"Look how many think Ronald Reagan "defeated the Soviets.""
He did, he bankrupted them economically and faced them down militarily
" Look how many still think that Paris Hilton should get another tax break. Look at the Nielsen ratings for "American Idol.""
Look at how many people continue to play the class warfare game. Look at how many people demonize the rich. Look at how many jobs the poor create. Look at how the percentage of taxes that the rich already pay. Look at how people feel entitled to other people's hard earned money. Look at how the government wastes tax dollars now. Look at how evil corporations already pay a higher percentage of taxes than they make in profit." Look at how Obama will create a 60 percent tax bracket, to take more money from those who earn it and give it to those who don't.
"Un-*****-believably dumb."
Well at least you are right there.
T - mrraven200, on 07/03/2008, -1/+3@PolishLogic
Why should I just accept bad things just because, that is a non argument. So far I want to stay in the U.S. because of family and friends not because of our horrific brutal, snarky, cool to be cruel society, Part of the problem is I can't afford to move, don't just ASSume everyone has easy money to travel, and afford housing, living expenses while finding a job in a new country, etc. Finally many societies don't want immigrants, Canada I believe has something like a 10 year waiting list for citizenship. In short YOU are part of the problem this article is talking about.- PolishLogic, on 07/03/2008, -3/+1Apparently you've never wanted anything bad enough to make it happen.
I can think of a few examples of poor people fleeing their oppressive home countries with nothing more than the money in their pocket and the clothes they're wearing.
By the way, have you ever read up on the illegal immigrants who poor into this country daily? They're not exactly millionaires you know.
I'll say it again: Apparently you've never wanted anything bad enough to make it happen.
- PolishLogic, on 07/03/2008, -3/+1Apparently you've never wanted anything bad enough to make it happen.
- PolishLogic, on 07/02/2008, -21/+22"Look at the Nielsen ratings for "American Idol.""
- Beylan, on 07/02/2008, -25/+7As one of those ignorant Americans I have to say I don't care because it doesn't matter in the slightest what I think about anything on a political level. Why should I spend hours pouring over the inner workings of the beltway crowd when I'm powerless to change any of it? The 'representatives' on the ballot were decided in a back room long before the ballots were printed, and the people on it are virtually identical once you get beyond the superficial issues (even if they say they aren't).
The article used Social Security as an example. Every single election in the last 30 years it has been a key issue, and every politician swears to maintain it or fix it. But what really happened is the Democrats blew the funds paid into it on their pork belly projects until the Republicans took over in '94, and then THEY blew it on their own pork belly projects despite being elected on a balanced budget campaign. Did it really matter who voted for whom? Republican, Democrat, Green, or Independent, politicians are all the same. Any apparent differences between them are all superficial (such as abortion or gay marriage).
Why should I waste my time worrying about something I'm powerless to change? Is it a better use of my time studying to better my job skills and perhaps get a nice raise or a better job? Or having a night out on the town to reduce stress? Go to the gym and work out? Or even just sit on the couch and watch TV?
Are those a more effective ways of making a positive effect on my life than voting for red or blue or green when there is no appreciable difference in the results?- reland1, on 07/02/2008, -3/+5
Beylan... Join the Libertarian Party and put all that steam to good use! - Orwell007, on 07/02/2008, -2/+12Beylan, if you don't value your freedom and liberty, that is exactly the correct attitude to have. In fact, those who are planning on making you a slave to the state are hoping you and the other masses will adopt that very attitude. If enough people adopt your attitude, then it is easy for a very small minority to seize power and enslave you. At that point, your options to do your own thing are greatly diminished, if not eliminated. Join the informed while you still have the opportunity to voice your opinion.
- Beylan, on 07/02/2008, -1/+8And what am I supposed to do about it? I'm not the CEO of a multinational mega-corporation, I don't have millions of dollars to give in campaign contributions, and all the letters I've written to any politician of any level seems to have been completely ignored. I can't even get a reply from my county council.
- Botanicus, on 07/02/2008, -1/+8What you think about politics doesn't matter because you think politcs doesn't matter.
- Spudster, on 07/02/2008, -0/+5Exactly, you can't say you're making a decision about a topic when you're actively pleading ignorance.
- stienster, on 07/02/2008, -0/+6Oh man... I just had this convo with my wife last night. She doesn't care about things that outside of her field of view because she believes it doesn't effect her life...
If we do nothing to make our/the world a better place, then nothing ever changes for the betterment of our/the world.- Beylan, on 07/02/2008, -2/+4Politics effects all our lives. I don't dispute that. The War on Drugs, the War on Terror, banning Cigarettes and Marijuana and Trans-Fats and Cell phones. Warrant-less wiretaps, no fly lists, inner city armed checkpoints, off shore prisons where pesky little regulations like the Bill of Rights or Habeus Corpus wont get in the way. Do I need to go on?
My point was that Democrats and Republicans all go the same way on anything substantial. The only difference between them anymore is all fluff issues and none of them care in the slightest what the American people want.
Why spend my valuable time worrying about things I cannot change? - roodammy44, on 07/03/2008, -0/+2Then vote for a third party.
If everyone apathetic as you did, then they would be elected.
We have a very active third party in Britain whose policies have affected governements in control as the top two tried to gain their votes. 100 odd years ago, the third outlying party actually won the election (and is in control of the government now).
Even if it's "chucking your vote away", you're chucking away your vote indicating where you want the country to be, thus drawing the mainstream of politics in that direction.
You could even argue that people voting nader and losing the democrats the election to bush may have pushed obama into the final now by making sure the democrats put up a more "get rid of the corporate shills" attitude.
- Beylan, on 07/02/2008, -2/+4Politics effects all our lives. I don't dispute that. The War on Drugs, the War on Terror, banning Cigarettes and Marijuana and Trans-Fats and Cell phones. Warrant-less wiretaps, no fly lists, inner city armed checkpoints, off shore prisons where pesky little regulations like the Bill of Rights or Habeus Corpus wont get in the way. Do I need to go on?
- Spudster, on 07/02/2008, -0/+5Your apathy is damaging and misleading. If you followed politics you would be surprised just how much there is that you can change. I ask you, how can you come to a conclusion about the political process when you refuse to divest any time learning about it?
- DoscoJones, on 07/02/2008, -2/+6You're no citizen. You're a sheep.
- logosx1, on 07/03/2008, -1/+3The sad truth of the matter is that he's absolutely right. Our system of government went off the constitutional tracks so long ago that most Americans mock the very notion of returning to them. Participating in a fundamentally broken system only validates that system, which thrives on the misguided idealism and energy you so gleefully surrender to it. Paying attention to matters close to home is the only way to preserve what scraps of civilization will be left after this unlawful government finishes devouring itself and everyone near it.
- Barackalypse, on 07/03/2008, -0/+4Lee Harvey Oswald is the definitive counterpoint to anyone complaining one man is powerless to change Washington. The issue is most men aren't willing to die to do it. (Please don't read this as a solicitation to become politically active in that way, its highly illegal, I'm merely making a point that one man can have an impact).
- Beylan, on 07/03/2008, -3/+1Interesting that you had to post a disclaimer on that comment. Have concerns about being visited by some nice men from the Secret Service tomorrow as a penalty for speaking your mind?
- kinseyincanada, on 07/03/2008, -1/+2this is why youre country has become what it is, the people do nothing because they believe they have no power, but the people truely wanted change, and not this Obama change, i mean real change, then stand up and speak out, if every American stood up and spoke out the government would have no choice but to change. The power is stil in your hands.
- roodammy44, on 07/03/2008, -1/+1George Bush and Al Gore are not identical.
When will people look beyond personality into a candidate's history and their idealism (of lack of in bush's case)?
- reland1, on 07/02/2008, -3/+5
- tatis44, on 07/02/2008, -23/+19World wise Americans (U.S) are view as ignorant sheep. I remember once someone asked me if Spain was in Mexico.... ( I wanted to slap him in the face and get him a globe map)... I am not making anything up, I was in shock I think my 5 yr old cousin knew more than that.
Americans (U.S) are not interested in international news and events I am talking in general I know few who are not like this but most are and it is sad.
www.dailyradical.org- solid12345, on 07/03/2008, -4/+9My whole thing with the American ignorance thing is that us "fly-over" states are treated by the coastal cities as uneducated ignorant hicks yet I can't tell you how many of my friends have visited New York and people there honestly asked if we lived in tepees and had running water.
- Wakkyweed, on 07/03/2008, -2/+6I was raised in the heart of the so-called "fly-over states" and then at the age of 30 moved to the East coast. I've seen both sides to this story and I can honestly say that the for the most part people back home are uneducated ignorant hicks.
They are nice people, and many are quite smart. Just the same, they are still ignorant.
- Wakkyweed, on 07/03/2008, -2/+6I was raised in the heart of the so-called "fly-over states" and then at the age of 30 moved to the East coast. I've seen both sides to this story and I can honestly say that the for the most part people back home are uneducated ignorant hicks.
- Hockey13, on 07/03/2008, -5/+9And everyone in every other country has a Ph ***** d. Get a sense of perspective you generalizing tit.
-A German and American citizen. - ruddy, on 07/03/2008, -5/+5"World wise Americans (U.S) are view as ignorant sheep"
oh the irony! can you buy me a "globe map" when you have the chance? i would really enjoy one.
Stop sleeping in English! you look pretty stupid right now... - douggmc, on 07/03/2008, -3/+4... and apparently you are not interested in punctuation?
Pot calling the kettle black? - regeya, on 07/03/2008, -1/+9Wow, based on your experience with ONE PERSON, you can generalize about 300 million people.
And you're calling US ignorant? If anyone is ignorant, it's you--of basic logical fallacies. My wife used to teach in one of the poorer school districts in Illinois, and logic was a requirement.
I'm guessing you're not American, mainly because your English skills don't seem to be up to snuff.
- solid12345, on 07/03/2008, -4/+9My whole thing with the American ignorance thing is that us "fly-over" states are treated by the coastal cities as uneducated ignorant hicks yet I can't tell you how many of my friends have visited New York and people there honestly asked if we lived in tepees and had running water.
- dracostimpy, on 07/02/2008, -30/+25That guy talks like a fag and his *****'s all retarded.
- PSotter, on 07/02/2008, -0/+9Careful. I know your quoting "Idiocracy" but I got banned for using the "f-word" and I'm gay. I was counter-bashing comments that were anti-effeminate. I got totally dug down.
- dracostimpy, on 07/02/2008, -0/+6I didn't realize there were words you can't say on Digg, aside from 09-f9 of course. When did this come about and what other words should I avoid?
- PSotter, on 07/02/2008, -0/+0it's slippery verbiage... something about "offensive" language. IOW... calling people f *a*g*s is not OK. Gay bashing is allright if you don't use "offensive" language. Go figure.
Oh-nine etc... that's just playing with fire, my friend. - dracostimpy, on 07/02/2008, -0/+5Well in that case, let the record show that I meant the slang word for cigarette, not the slang word for homersexuals.
- Wakkyweed, on 07/03/2008, -0/+2The "f-word" is very offensive and should never be used.
I prefer the term "bum-bandit" - Exbzurq, on 07/03/2008, -0/+2You should also never say Candlejack. He will come and get you in mid-sent
- notoneofus, on 07/03/2008, -1/+9Yeah, guess you have to remember that very few people saw "Idiocracy," making them ignorant of the reference.
- PhilLesh69, on 07/03/2008, -0/+3"Yeah, and he totally trashed my apartment!"
"Wait! aren't you supposed to be defending me??"
Wow, you like sex AND money?
- PSotter, on 07/02/2008, -0/+9Careful. I know your quoting "Idiocracy" but I got banned for using the "f-word" and I'm gay. I was counter-bashing comments that were anti-effeminate. I got totally dug down.
- Dauntless1, on 07/02/2008, -4/+24People want to be ignorant because it justifies bad behavior. Just like getting drunk at a party and using being drunk as an excuse to knock up a fifteen-year old girl, which happens a lot in today's schools. People want to use "I didn't know" as an excuse, when an actual mature adult would take some damn responsibility. If you don't want to think for yourself, don't expect your kids to want to be educated either.
- briankoenig03, on 07/03/2008, -0/+10I agree with your comment, but want to clarify that teenage pregnancy rates "in today's schools" are lower than they were when most of us were in school.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi ... - zer0nix, on 07/03/2008, -2/+3all of what you said could be summed up in one word: LAZINESS. yes, we americans are incredibly, unabashedly lazy. our society doesn't condemn it because lazy people are easy to manipulate.
- briankoenig03, on 07/03/2008, -0/+10I agree with your comment, but want to clarify that teenage pregnancy rates "in today's schools" are lower than they were when most of us were in school.
- Yarmin3, on 07/02/2008, -19/+37I think there's a positive correlation between ignorance and patriotism, because the more I learn about American history and civics, the more I hate this country.
With every new piece of information I learn there turns up more hypocrisy and injustice. I believe if most Americans knew their basic civics and history, they would not tolerate the political climate we live in today.
However, this is very hard to change when ignorance is literally valued socially above knowledge. When did uneducated blue-collar religious whites from middle America become "real" Americans, over the "elitist" coast dwelling educated? How do we tolerate our government forcing our kids to pledge an allegiance to a nation they were born into by chance? How do we celebrate the 4th of July and praise our Founding Fathers for setting up an ingenious government, when we violate their basic held principals every day? Only a nation of ignorant citizens is this possible.- beebelo, on 07/02/2008, -6/+7I like your third paragraph best.
The first paragraph I am uncomfortable with because of the word "hate". I can hate the government or hate ignorant people (figurative hatred--not actual hatred--well most of the time anyway;), but I can't hate this country. This country is not Bush. Bush is not this country. The ignoramus followers of the axis of weasels (Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld, et al) are not this country either. This country is Adams, Jefferson, Washington, and countless other men and women who had a grand vision. Our founding Fathers and Mothers.- Yarmin3, on 07/03/2008, -3/+5This country is no longer of Adams, Jefferson, Washington and countless other men and women; they are simply a facade, because our government has grown into a consolidated corporate minded tyrannical leviathan that our founders feared.
That's why I slowly grow unpatriotic, shame full and long for a government that exists to protect civil liberties instead of seeking loopholes in a tattered constitution just to seek personal and/or national glory in the name of greed in the former and patriotism in the latter.
This Independence Day lets celebrate the ideals of the founding generation in it's fight with the British Empire and realize that America, over these last 232 years has grown into that very beast; and we need to break the chains of suppressive government once again.
- Yarmin3, on 07/03/2008, -3/+5This country is no longer of Adams, Jefferson, Washington and countless other men and women; they are simply a facade, because our government has grown into a consolidated corporate minded tyrannical leviathan that our founders feared.
- PSotter, on 07/02/2008, -5/+3I empathize with your anger. But don't give the right wingers ammunition by saying "hate."
You'll be dugg down for sure.- praetoriansword, on 07/03/2008, -2/+1This is digg...what right wingers???
- WiseWeasel, on 07/03/2008, -1/+7At least you can take solace in the fact that other countries are no better. The only question that matters is how to we make things *better*? At least on Digg and most other online social communities, ignorance is typically punished rather than praised, which should give you some hope. The more convincing argument takes the prize, and we're not driven by two-second soundbites. Intellectualism is alive and well on the internet, and its appeal appears quite broad. The idiocracy promoted by most common media is driving itself to irrelevance, as people no longer feel satisfied with such shallow fodder. The solutions might be unclear or appear out of reach, but at least the main driving force behind our predicament is waning.
- Quisquis, on 07/03/2008, -2/+2Do you really think that intellectualism prevails on digg? not driven by 2 second sound bites?
Have you seen how many people literally comment in a thread after only reading the TITLE... the title. Not even the description, much less the article itself. - WiseWeasel, on 07/03/2008, -1/+5Yes, I often notice that posts that demonstrate ignorance or bigotry are buried, and those that make convincing arguments are usually dugg up. I wouldn't say that the highest rated posts are the most insightful, just because of the way Digg organizes its comments pages, and how easy it is to digg or bury things; each moderation doesn't carry much weight, and many people just use their points to digg or bury the first couple posts they see, and then move on. I would say without hesitation that, taking post placement into consideration, there is a distinct bias towards convincingly reasoned arguments on Digg.
- Quisquis, on 07/03/2008, -2/+2Do you really think that intellectualism prevails on digg? not driven by 2 second sound bites?
- solid12345, on 07/03/2008, -3/+18Why do you "hate" America? Name one nation one can be proud of by liberal standards unless you are a pacific islander. Every major nation in the world had an empire at one time and has exploited other nations for their own enrichment, that is history. Should Germans wake up and hate themselves for what they did in WW2?
Sure our nation isn't perfect, but I can tell you one thing, I'd much rather be "forced" to pledge allegiance to a flag than be forced to every morning pledge my allegiance to "Uncle" Mouamar Khaddaffi like my mother had to do when she lived in Libya as a child, or North Koreans literally worshiping their dear leader as a god on earth.- Wakkyweed, on 07/03/2008, -0/+6I couldn't have said it better myself. I've been slammed on Digg for a comment that people apparently took as too patriotic, which is pretty funny considering that most people who know me would consider me anything but patriotic.
I realize that America is ***** up, but it does have it's redeeming qualities. And America is still less *****-up than about 80% of the world. - roodammy44, on 07/03/2008, -0/+4I'd rather not be forced to pledge alleigance to anywhere.
Patriotism is severely over-rated. We don't have much here in Britain but that might be because our empire was given back or taken back and even the British union is breaking up into separate countries.
Patriotism can be used for good (i.e. socialist help each other, make everything nicer) or for bad (lets go kill people who think differently from us).
I would say that it's mostly used for the bad.
Nationalism is a reletively new concept anyway, it's only been around for a few hundred years - ferkranus, on 07/03/2008, -2/+2>>And America is still less *****-up than about 80% of the world.
Reason # 287 for American ignorance: unsubstantiated statistics used to make them feel better.
America is NOT less *****-up than 80% of the world...open your ***** eyes already!!!! - mrraven200, on 07/03/2008, -2/+2"Name one nation one can be proud of by liberal standards unless you are a pacific islander. Every major nation in the world had an empire at one time and has exploited other nations for their own enrichment, that is history."
Wrong, Sweden. Any other statements of your I can answer to dispel your ignorance? - Wakkyweed, on 07/03/2008, -1/+3@mrraven200 -
So Sweden is sweet, pacifist nation that has never done anything wrong? Look at his statement again. "Every major nation in the world had an empire at one time and has exploited other nations for their own enrichment".
The Swedes are essentially nothing more than Vikings, and anybody who thinks that the Vikings were sweet and pacifist needs to bone up on their history. Solid was right, and you are the ignorant one. - Wakkyweed, on 07/03/2008, -0/+3@ferkanus -
I never claimed that 80% was a statistic, it was an approximation, jerk-off. I don't think anyone has ever done statistics to prove which nations are less *****-up than others.
But lets see, on the basis of things like corrupt governments, lousy economies, humans rights abuses, low standard of living, bad infrastructure, health problems, and other quality of life issues, lets compare the U.S. to some other places.
Mexico? A *****. In fact, you can include virtually every country in South America under that designation, so that's 21 nations that suck more than the US.
Africa? Another backwards continent, with massive societal problems. 50 more nations that the US is less ***** up than.
Asia? The Middle East? Please, do I really need to continue this?
As an approximation, I think 80% was generous. - Mesmorize, on 07/03/2008, -2/+1I love all these Europeans commenting on how screwed up America is while living in societies that have lost the will to live, and who's older adults live like and have the maturity of an American 20 year old.
Your governments effectively neutered you and made your citizens infants suckling the teat of your welfare programs that have effectively incised all your human drives. Like piglets in a corral.
When you all die out and your land is repopulated by Muslims, Africans and your other surging minorities I was going to remorse a little for the loss of what was a great civilization - but the time for that has past, you've already abandoned the west.
In fact, I'll probably cheer. After all life is for the living, not those countries with a universal case of weltschmerz.
- Wakkyweed, on 07/03/2008, -0/+6I couldn't have said it better myself. I've been slammed on Digg for a comment that people apparently took as too patriotic, which is pretty funny considering that most people who know me would consider me anything but patriotic.
- woodrow8292, on 07/03/2008, -6/+9"How do we tolerate our government forcing our kids to pledge an allegiance to a nation they were born into by chance? "
Every American who has given their life for this country just rolled over in their grave. The reason we should pledge allegiance to this country is because we were born in this country! The reason you should pledge allegiance to this country is because you can come on here and write this stuff about your country and government and not have to worry about disappearing in the middle of the night. The reason you should pledge allegiance to this country is because you have no ***** idea how good you have it in this country. The reason you should pledge allegiance to this country is because people have given their lives to fight for it and preserve your quality of life so jackasses like yourself can sit behind their computer screens and type away about what a horrible evil country we live in. Please do us all a favor and let us know when you find a better country to live in then we can all take up a collection to get your sorry ass out of our great country!- Yarmin3, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1Those Americans gave up their lives for their sons and daughters, wives, husbands and friends, not their country. That's the problem. Theirs a huge disconnect between the government and its people. Your government should pledge allegiance to you and not you to your government.
- woodrow8292, on 07/04/2008, -0/+2Ok seriously Yarmin just leave the country. Do us all a favor and get out. Go find a nice euro-socialist society to go live in and we'll see ya later. Give up your citizenship and go find a new country we don't want you any more.
- byikes, on 07/03/2008, -1/+4Wow, I'm sorry to hear that learning history has caused you to hate your country. The truth is history is made by people, people do bad things, because people are selfish, self-centered and possibly evil. I love history, I read/watch all I can get. If you do this you will see many patterns develop that basically revolve around people do bad things. This country is far from innocent but this country is really an experiment. An experiment to be a little better, not perfect just better than what they had experienced before. This country is not going exactly like I would like right now, however when ever you are dealing with any fluid system you must plan for backlash/flow, and when ever you look at any perceived transgression you must realize there is always a chance you might be wrong.
- mrraven200, on 07/03/2008, -2/+2Wow are you ever naive the U.S. has intervened in some other country in a raw rank imperialist way EVERY year since WWII:
http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.h ...
- mrraven200, on 07/03/2008, -2/+2Wow are you ever naive the U.S. has intervened in some other country in a raw rank imperialist way EVERY year since WWII:
- beebelo, on 07/02/2008, -6/+7I like your third paragraph best.
- jeffiek, on 07/02/2008, -2/+12These are surveys. Are they meaningful?
On the one hand we have "***** you Frank"
On the other hand we have to look at what's been elected to office (all of them - not just Bush)
I'm going with meaningful. - Orwell007, on 07/02/2008, -25/+20"How much ignorance can a country stand? There have to be terrible consequences when it reaches a certain level. But what level? And with what consequences, exactly?"
The dumbing down of a nation is one the the requirements, as spelled out in the Communist Manifesto. Most of those who post here would claim that they desire to be free, yet they continue to elect and support those who are intent on making them wards of the state.
The current messianic following by Obama supporters illustrates that point. Most who support Obama, have no clue where he stands on any issue and what is even scarier, they don't care. Obama is a hard line Marxists. One only has to conduct a brief search to find out out how Marxist controlled countries have turned out. Some will dismiss his leanings and call it socialism, not realizing that socialism is the precursor for communism.
"What are those consequences?" We are about to receive a first-hand view. Of course, through our ignorance, we are not interested in the facts, we will just shout down anyone who disagrees with us. That is, until a government agent is standing in front of us with an assault rifle pointed at our head and leading us off to the re-education camps.- Rhettsta, on 07/03/2008, -1/+9lol
- fuse13, on 07/03/2008, -3/+1thanks for your brilliant parody of ignorance. "re-education camps"! oh man, you have them rolling in the aisles.
- ModernMindofM, on 07/03/2008, -3/+3Wow! I had no idea. Amazing!
You know what else is amazing? That someone like you, with all of the answers, has time to troll, er, proselytize here on Digg. - xtinamo, on 07/03/2008, -2/+5These "Marxist controlled countries" you speak of are merely a bastardization of communism as they were never able to move past the dictatorship of the proletariat (socialism). Historically speaking, there has never been a communist country. America would greatly benefit from communism as it begins with educating the masses so we may shed this false consciousness that the ruling class has instilled in order to make us docile and easily exploited.
- roodammy44, on 07/03/2008, -1/+4Marxism = empowerment of the people, ensuring the public are in control of their collective destiny and shaking off of the economic chains. It's an economic system, not a political system.
What you speak of is a dictatorship. They're different.
Please go read the communist manifesto and relieve your painfully obvious ignorance.
The dumbing down of a nation is not one of the requirements of communism, it's one of the causes leading to the "communist revolution" where the people break free of their debt slavery and take control of their own destiny by education and overthrowing their oppresive corporate masters.
- ChesapeakeBaybe, on 07/02/2008, -3/+40Great article. I think the problem of American apathy is largely two-fold:
1.) The dumbing down of the news media is a major contributer to the ignorance of America. It's become a lot harder to get legitimate news in this country. I turn to the British media for World News and some non-mainstream blogs for other news (health, finance, politics etc.) But most people simply take the sound-bite, sensationalized crap that the networks shoveled out and assume that's it.
2.) We have it too good in this country for too long, thus we have become complacent. When pressing one of my friends as to why she was voting for Hilary she replied, "She's a women." When I pressed her further on the issues she admitted, "two kids, a job, and a McMansion in the burbs, who has time to care about the issues?"
We get the government we deserve. The votes of ill-informed voters hold the same weight as those of educated voters. Sadly, the rolls of the latter appear to be dwindling. I think it will take a crisis to get people to pay attention, sadly by then it may be too late.- jmantra, on 07/03/2008, -0/+5she admitted, "two kids, a job, and a McMansion in the burbs, who has time to care about the issues?"
Did you tell her she's gonna lose that McMansion if she doesn't start waking up? - regeya, on 07/03/2008, -6/+1Cripes. I realize this is is an ad hominem attack, but I will not have my profession attacked by a fellow American who has worse written English than the average European schoolchild.
Yes, I work in 'the news media.' If you can't find decent news in American media, you're not trying. Oddly, the best seems to be NPR, which gets some funding from the Federal government, though that doesn't stop them from running stories that are blatantly critical of Federal government goings-on.
1.) British news organizations tend to be rather sensationalist, and BBC
is government owned. Also, many people around the world seem to see hating America as a sport. And who could blame people in England for hating Americans? They used to be the world power.
2. "She's a women." Does Hillary Clinton have multiple personalities?
Also, as I pointed out in another example, your example suffers from a major logical fallacy, which is that you use a single anecdote to conclude that Americans are complacent.
I think you'll find that people will vote in droves this fall.- Mullers, on 07/03/2008, -0/+7What? The BBC is not government owned. It is a publicly funded corporation, the government has little say in it's running.
The BBC charter says "free from both political and commercial influence and answers only to its viewers and listeners". While you could question how 'free' it really is today it is still not under government influence. If it were government owned would the BBC really criticise it as much as it does? - PhilLesh69, on 07/03/2008, -1/+1mullers, it is similar to NPR. It gets government funding from the british govt. It is a publically owned corporation like Amtrak, or the US Postal Service. Taxpayer funds are used to fund the BBC. So, it is in fact, a government owned corporation.
regeya, based on your writing skills (which aren't bad, just not writer quality), I'm guessing you work in the news media in a similar capacity as I do. I'm a web developer for a wire service. I don't write articles, I just make sure they get published to the internet and are accessible by the coprorate clients who subscribe to our feeds. Though you might be privileged to some of the editorial processes as well as the influence of the advertising department, like I am, and would understand that what gets reported is carefully selected for several basic reasons: Editorial "voice" and "position", who is paying the most for ad pages, and the basic political leanings, not of the writers, but of the editorial board. - PhilLesh69, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1regeya, I should expand on my "based on your writing skills" comment -- that was not meant in a derogatory manner, my writing skills are not bad either, but not writer quality, as well.
Besides, since almost all media companies laid off their copy editors in 2002, I've noticed that even some of the writers are not writer quality, either. - FairDinkumMate, on 07/03/2008, -0/+6"And who could blame people in England for hating Americans? They used to be the world power."
Using this 'logic', the English(or maybe you were referring to the British? ie. BBC) should have been hating Americans for what, at least 100-200 years? But they haven't, have they? Anti-US sentiment has grown(not just in Britain but in most developed nations) significantly over the past 8 or so years. Has America only been 'the world power' for 8 years? Or maybe your statement is just as poorly researched & explained as many that appear in the 'news media' that you so readily defend?
Even worse, I think you totally misunderstand the sentiment. In my experience, British, Australian, French, German or whichever people don't 'hate' Americans. Yes there is a lot of unease & distress at 'American' policy(especially Foreign policy) & how it impacts on the rest of the world, but any anger at this is directed at America, NOT Americans. I think if you took your blinkers off & travelled the globe with an open mind, you'd find that people all over would welcome you as an American, treat you with kindness and even talk about the things they love about your culture, heritage & country. If you discuss politics with them, they MAY express their concerns with the above, but they'd not hold you as an American accountable for it. - NecroDigg, on 07/03/2008, -2/+1go die.
- Mullers, on 07/03/2008, -0/+7What? The BBC is not government owned. It is a publicly funded corporation, the government has little say in it's running.
- Squonk08, on 07/03/2008, -0/+3I couldn't agree more. In my experience, ignorance comes in two forms: passive and active. Passive ignorance is being absolutely clueless that anything at all is going on; essentially, it's choosing to live in a total vacuum and then wondering why things go amiss. Active ignorance, on the other hand, is altogether more profound and, I think, more dangerous. The actively ignorant know that something is going on, that there's a right way of going about something, or that they should be more informed. However, they stubbornly refuse to go about things the right way, citing ridiculous, irrelevant, and/or completely illogical reasons for their opinions and decisions. And, unfortunately, the actively ignorant often pursue their opinions, espouse them and even vote on them.
Your friend falls into the second category. When asked why she chose her position, she picks an irrelevant reason, and then bristles when you call her out on it. She is also apparently unaware that her reasoning (or lack thereof) could be considered irritating or downright dangerous by those who are more informed on the issue, and considers any persuasion to that effect--no matter how gentle--as an attack.
I have a shirt that says "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." I wonder if the people who made it know just how true that sentiment is.
P.S. It seems we've got a philosophy major ferreting around. There's always one or two that find their way in. It begs the question (they universally hate it when this phrase is misused, and it's funny as all get out to listen to them rail on about it) whether or not the commentary on this article will descend into little more than philosophical and semantic quibbling--I sincerely hope not, as this message of ignorance is one that comes up all too infrequently for my taste.- PhilLesh69, on 07/03/2008, -0/+2Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups seems to go along with another statement I've seen, "The collective intelligence of a group is inversely proportional to its size."
- slstudios, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1my sentiments exactly.
- Peko, on 07/03/2008, -0/+5"1.) The dumbing down of the news media is a major contributer to the ignorance of America. ..."
I would argue consolidation as a consequence of deregulation is the primary cause. IIRC, 4 companies control 75%+ of the American news media market. They are all huge conglomerates. The primary legal goal of a corporation is to provide value for it's shareholders. It seems pretty definitive that these news outlets would have to bend the editorial slant of their media to suit the parent company's interests. So now the American news media is ever increasingly biased towards big business needs.
Effective democracy needs a diversity of journalistic perspectives to best enable an informed public.
NB: I probably would accuse Reagan et al of being the biggest culprit in media dereg. Correct me if I'm wrong; maybe the chess pieces were in motion before that. (The 1970s are often hailed as the golden age of journalism)
- jmantra, on 07/03/2008, -0/+5she admitted, "two kids, a job, and a McMansion in the burbs, who has time to care about the issues?"
- PSotter, on 07/02/2008, -15/+12Conservatives HATE this kind of article. They will say it is anti-American, unpatriotic, biased, racist (oh yes, they'll dig deep in their arsenal for batpoo crazy), and un-christian. There's only a few comments on right now. But wait... they'll come pouring in.
But ask yourself this: why would right wingers deny facts that show that the United States is slipping in rank for literacy (of all kinds)?
What is their motivation for bashing these statistics?
Why would these reactionaries not want people to heed this warning?- PolishLogic, on 07/02/2008, -3/+22"Conservatives HATE this kind of article."
WTF is that about? I'm a conservative and I whole-heartedly believe that the current college and high school generation is ***** in terms of intellect. The video of Ms. South Carolina sums up the dumbing down of this country generation by generation.
You can give an extra nod to MySpace and Facebook and helping give these dummies an wider audience, too.- PSotter, on 07/02/2008, -5/+0I agree with you. We can thank No Child Left Behind for the dumbing down of the American educational system.
I SHOULD have said NEO-CONS, though. - vexingmodstwo, on 07/03/2008, -1/+2Oh, PSotter... you just lost it there given that the people affected by NCLB the most are barely out of highschool right now and sure as hell couldn't be Neocons yet.
Btw... NCLB was co-written by Ted Kennedy. Is he a neo-con? - ruddy, on 07/03/2008, -2/+1As a conservative, you're all ***** retarded! the sky is falling the sky is falling!! There's stupid people EVERYWHERE! There's plenty of brilliant kids in our schools, don't act like we're all doomed. There's more kids in high school involved in robotics and engineering in the US than ever before. This is digg, the used to be tech site... I bet I know more about engineering or software than most of you tards on digg saying we're all ignorant as hell.
I'm not claiming there aren't a fair share of ignorant citizens here, but come one, let's get off the popular mentality that the US is retarded... Check out some high school robotics competitions, we dominate :) - Jlaugh, on 07/03/2008, -1/+2In case you haven't figured it out the republicans and democrats are on the same team. It's called the 1%, and we citizens aren't on that team. Our education system is designed to dumb us down, and if that doesn't work there's TV, Drugs, Alcohol, Sports and the right-left paradigm.
- lizzykins97, on 07/03/2008, -0/+0yeah, um... when you come from a town like I do... where seniors don't past the ISAT tests and usually don't graduate the first time... It's easier to believe that Americans aren't exactly as educated as we should be...
they are so obsessed with the fact that they have to keep everyone on the same f*** level that they keep us all at the lower level - NecroDigg, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1***** you, conservative scum! Libertarian Satanist or get *****!
- PSotter, on 07/02/2008, -5/+0I agree with you. We can thank No Child Left Behind for the dumbing down of the American educational system.
- jabberwolf, on 07/03/2008, -3/+5Um, usually its the LEFT wingers that assume they are the intelligent ones.
Yet they have so many conspiracy theories about everything with half or no information.
They assume they know the world yet few have traveled or lived outside it ( and tourist trap vacations do not count).
I too agree with this article - leftist retards are obvious evidence of this!- Jlaugh, on 07/03/2008, -1/+3You too buy in to the right-left paradigm, your as equally brainwashed. In the grand scheme of things there is no organized left in America.
- PhilLesh69, on 07/03/2008, -3/+3That's funny. I think liberals have probably travelled more than most republicans.
I'm a republican. After High School, I got a job for the summer then went to college. so-called "liberals" are the ones who tended to backpack across Europe for either a summer or an entire year before starting college.
Most republicans are actually not in a position to travel any farther than 200 miles from their home towns, and tend to go to places like Six Flags or a National Park for their summer vacations.
That doesn't mean the more affluent Republicans, who are a minority of the voting populace of republicans, do not travel the world. Some do. My parents made sure that I had visited 4 European countries before I graduated from High School, but we had the privilege of flying space-available on MAC flights for $10 each way (and $3.65 more if you wanted a boxed meal on the C5 or C141)
MOST Americans are jingoistic and provincial. BUT, liberals tend to be more interested in learning about other cultures than republicans are. - Myonosken, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1FOR ***** SAKES
Will you stupid ***** stop saying "them left wingers NAZIS" "them right wing NAZIS" and assigning every issue to whichever side you aren't on? LEARN TO UNDERSTAND THE POLITICAL IDEOLOGIES OF PARTIES
- MajorOutage, on 07/03/2008, -3/+4And you think Liberals don't hate them just as much because they point out the dependencies they strive so hard to build and exploit? They're obviously not going to admit it, but think about it.
- SilverStandard, on 07/03/2008, -0/+2The senior policy adviser to the Department of Education under Ronald Reagan's first term wrote a book about how school is making Americans stupider by design. It's hundreds of pages of long and filled with documentation. It's a free online PDF file. Www.DeliberateDumbingDown.com.
- PolishLogic, on 07/02/2008, -3/+22"Conservatives HATE this kind of article."
- onyxcoltrane, on 07/02/2008, -6/+14Also, Americans' passions and energies are excessively wasted on TV, sports viewing, and entertainment. These prove to be perfect tools for keeping the masses dumbed down and docile. If all of your passion is used up rooting for your favorite sports team or American idol candidate then it keeps the you off the streets and the government can invade any country whenever they would like. Just keep us all fat, dumb, and happy.
- PolishLogic, on 07/02/2008, -5/+9We get it, you're superior because you spend every waking hour reading newspapers from all around the world (when you're not flexing your superiority on Digg), without ever giving as much as a fleeting thought to sports, movies, TV, music, or any other "garbage" like that.
Correction, you probably do like some music, but only if it's Baroque, Celtic, or African tribal rhythms.- onyxcoltrane, on 07/03/2008, -1/+5Everything in moderation is fine. The point that you obviously missed is that when there is excessive preoccupation with these activities, democracy suffers and the citizenry gives the government a free pass. I am also guilty of this.
- kinseyincanada, on 07/03/2008, -0/+4i belive all he is saying is that most Americans care more and know more about American Idol then there own government, which is wrong, every citizen should be informed of what their votes and their tax dollars are going toward. There is nothing wrong with kicking back and watching American Idol, or for me Cooking Shows and Mythbusters, but you need to inform yourself of your countries actions.
- Hockey13, on 07/03/2008, -1/+7I am an American.
I don't watch American Idol. I am not fat. I am not dumb. But I do watch TV a lot. I'm on the computer a lot. I am entertained by the many different amusements of modern culture because we aren't monks living in monasteries without electricity or running water. I have several favorite sports teams in several different sports, yet I still somehow miraculously find the energy to read the news from many different sources (which is really the only way to mitigate bias), keep up on financial and economic news for my job/studies, news from other fields, watch awesome documentaries on TV, etc.
This country sucks in many ways at the moment, but don't say "Americans' passions and energies are excessively wasted on...", because it's pretty douchey and invasive to insult other people's hobbies, especially when you clearly have no idea how smart a huge chunk of Americans actually are, regardless of what they do in their free time.
If you believe Americans waste their time on sports, you clearly have never seen a true European soccer fan.- onyxcoltrane, on 07/03/2008, -3/+3Sigh, I'll try again. There's nothing wrong with hobbies and recreation but I do think that Americans do not spend enough time being politically active and our democracy suffers as a result, and I think the government loves it that we are not engaged.
- baconz, on 07/03/2008, -1/+1"If you believe Americans waste their time on sports, you clearly have never seen a true European soccer fan."
Enthusiasm for sport is not the problem. But when american universities greatest source of funding comes from sportswear manufacturers, and when sub-par students are given good grades so that the school team will have a better chance at winning a bowl of fruit or some silly cup, THAT is where your problem lies.
In Europe, education is much more important than sport. Sports complement life and aren't the single most important aspect.
(I'm also an american, btw)
- PhilLesh69, on 07/03/2008, -0/+2"Bread and Circuses"
Keep the people fat and happy, and you can embark on your empire without any interference or protests.
- PolishLogic, on 07/02/2008, -5/+9We get it, you're superior because you spend every waking hour reading newspapers from all around the world (when you're not flexing your superiority on Digg), without ever giving as much as a fleeting thought to sports, movies, TV, music, or any other "garbage" like that.
- bbwolf7, on 07/02/2008, -2/+11And don't forget the distracting and calming effect of consumerism.
- Spudster, on 07/02/2008, -7/+31To be fair, many people in other countries are rather ignorant too. I would say that America just has a higher percentage of ignorant people in the world.
It's sad too, because many Americans DO follow world events and come up with brilliant foreign policy, etc. It's just the majority that ruin the image of the minority who do care.- ejhops, on 07/03/2008, -2/+1They are certainly ignorant as well; however, you have to look at international knowledge as well.
This article only dealt with ignorance of one's own country, and it was shocking bad. But America's infamous ignorance is found when talking about happenings in other countries. Sure, other countries' don't know much about world events.
But go take a look at "Talking to American's". - EarlOfLade, on 07/03/2008, -2/+4Well, all polls I have seen seems to indicate that USA is quite close to the bottom of the list.
- Hangly, on 07/03/2008, -1/+1Those lists only compare the US and Europe.
- PhilLesh69, on 07/03/2008, -0/+3No, hangly, they don't.
They compare every nation in the world.
We rank below lots of non-European nations in literacy, infant mortality, quality of health care, and education.
Did you know that at one time, Iraq outranked the US in adult literacy rates, even for women? That was in the 1970's and 1980's.
- ejhops, on 07/03/2008, -2/+1They are certainly ignorant as well; however, you have to look at international knowledge as well.
- tufftugg, on 07/02/2008, -6/+4 How ignorant?...Glenn Beck?...The only knowledgeable people in the States are those darn old Educated Liberals.
- vexingmodstwo, on 07/03/2008, -5/+2Yeah, Al Sharpton is a Rhodes Scholar. And all those left leaning Hollywood celebrities can start a chapter of Mensa, huh?
Your comment is actually proof of the story you're digging up, ass.- tufftugg, on 07/03/2008, -2/+3 lol...do Conservatives 'ever' deal with reality?
Hollywood celebrities...chapter of Mensa...read em and weep:
Steve Martin:Geena Davis:Alan Rachins:Alan Rachins:Terance Black:Asia Carrera:
There are more, but at least I helped you learn something today. - vexingmodstwo, on 07/03/2008, -2/+2I learned that you are more ignorant that I originally suspected, ass.
- tufftugg, on 07/03/2008, -2/+3 lol...do Conservatives 'ever' deal with reality?
- vexingmodstwo, on 07/03/2008, -5/+2Yeah, Al Sharpton is a Rhodes Scholar. And all those left leaning Hollywood celebrities can start a chapter of Mensa, huh?
- WiseWeasel, on 07/02/2008, -5/+29A good way to get Americans interested in politics would be to improve transparency in government decision-making, including mechanisms for direct discussion between concerned citizens and policymakers. As it is now, our representatives talk down to us like we're idiots, flat-out lie or mislead, and use cheap marketing gimmicks to make people think they're concerned about them or their problems. If there was a forum for public discussion of the current issues being tossed around in Washington D.C., and representatives actually participated in this forum in an informative way, then people could feel like they have a stake in the decisions being made, and might be moved to inform themselves on the various topics being discussed. The fact that there appears to be a wall between rational discussion of government policy and the public is hugely discouraging to public participation in politics. Helping to involve the public in intelligent political discourse would do a great deal to improve the poor performance of Americans on questions concerning civics.
As for knowledge of historical battles, from the Norman Conquest in 1066 to the Battle of Yorktown in the American Revolution, the entire idea of learning history as a series of wars is incredibly shallow and pointless. The mere learning and regurgitation of battle dates is unfortunately so common in history education, that it's often misused as a gauge of an individual's knowledge despite its utter irrelevance to our lives. It's the motivations for those conflicts, and the public and political responses to them that are relevant and interesting to people, but that fact is lost on educators, as well as this writer, apparently. The scope of relevant knowledge changes with the nature of our society, and the idea that you must know that a particular battle happened in a particular year to be considered informed seems ludicrous to me. History is obviously an important subject for people to be informed of, for the reason that it helps them understand foreign affairs, cultures and politics, and this goal is not being served with most common approaches to history education.
The real advantages to the availability of the internet as a tool for education lie in social knowledge and individual empowerment. From a young age, people are now learning much more about the nature of humanity as a whole, with all its dirty secrets, and of particular societies and communities, along with how those communities are created, often in the pursuit of common goals. People raised on the internet are more likely to organize themselves directly with people who share the same problems to find a solution, rather than expect government to do it for them. Young people are now often finding themselves in direct opposition to government policies that attempt to restrict their online activities, putting them at odds with the civic institutions of our country. The fact that government is not moving in the direction of openness and free access along with the rest of the information sector, or at least not at the pace they have come to expect from internet organizations, decreases their relevance to young netizens.
In summary, the puck has moved since the prevalence of the internet, and the information relevant to people today is not the same as it was 20 or 50 years ago. People are increasingly solving their problems through bottom-up market-driven solutions without waiting for their government to get around to addressing them, and the problems we're faced with are becoming more abstract and ephemeral as online interaction becomes the norm, making them less suited to being addressed by our hopelessly uninformed and understaffed representatives at the national level. The nature of society and how people address their concerns is changing, and the information relevant to dealing with this new reality is changing with it. The article was much too simplistic and limited to possibly address an issue so broad as the general intelligence of our society.
/rant- HumanGlitch, on 07/03/2008, -5/+3Thats what she said.
- ricker2005, on 07/03/2008, -2/+4I was going to say similar things about historical dates but you said it perfectly. I had no idea the Battle of Yorktown was the final battle in the Revolutionary War until reading this article. More importantly, I didn't (and still don't) care that it's the final battle. It's not relevant data to 99% of people in this country or elsewhere. I loved history class and I almost got a history minor in college to go with my bio major. But I don't remember the dates of pretty much anything I learned because I don't view them as worth remembering.
The important lessons is everything but the date. It's the why and the how, not the when. - jabberwolf, on 07/03/2008, -5/+1"The real advantages to the availability of the internet as a tool for education lie in social knowledge and individual empowerment." "In summary, the puck has moved since the prevalence of the internet,"
I think that the internet HAS created people as dumb as hockey pucks that only take tidbits, and headlines as the end all, be-all of truth and facts. In fact most schools are reporting grades dropping because students get little or wrong information posted on the internet. The internet is a supplement not a sole source to rely on. And if you do rely on the internet, look at sources, then look at opposing information and then check those sources as well!
"People are increasingly solving their problems through bottom-up market-driven solutions without waiting for their government to get around to addressing them, and the problems we're faced with are becoming more abstract and ephemeral as online interaction becomes the norm, making them less suited to being addressed by our hopelessly uninformed and understaffed representatives at the national level"
Really? is that why welfare is the largest it's ever been?
Is that why entitlement programs are the largest they have ever been?
Is that why Obama wants to tax more? Because it seems like automatons are voting for someone to try and pay, and take care of them.
"As for knowledge of historical battles, from the Norman Conquest in 1066 to the Battle of Yorktown in the American Revolution, the entire idea of learning history as a series of wars is incredibly shallow and pointless"
The reason we learn about wars, is to understand the causes and reasons people fought. Many times we learn from the past 'so we do not repeat it'
Again most left wing retards think that even recent history as early as 20-30 years ago, is not relevent to a situation. They think that 9/11 is something brand new? They ignore things like hijackings that were common place in Europe through the 70's and 80's. They ignore all of the middle east past and for some reason demonize Israel or relate it to some conspiracy. In the meantime, Israel and many other countries look at Americans and think ' what a bunch of ***** idiots - do their children learn ANYTHING in school?'
""A good way to get Americans interested in politics would be to improve transparency in government decision-making, including mechanisms for direct discussion between concerned citizens and policymakers. As it is now, our representatives talk down to us like we're idiots"
1- Ever hear of CSPAN ? They ARE transparent and they have committee meetings as well. Congress is open to the press and it is televised ! So in conclusion:
2- There is probably a reason they talk down to people like you... because you ARE idiots.
"The article was much too simplistic and limited to possibly address an issue so broad as the general intelligence of our society."
Maybe, but apparently YOU don't get it!- ricker2005, on 07/03/2008, -0/+4Speaking of not getting it...
You go on a rant about how this poster is an idiot because we should learn about wars and why they are fought...which is exactly what the guy was saying. He was saying that the memorization of dates was irrelevant. Congratulations. You're an arrogant ass. - WiseWeasel, on 07/03/2008, -0/+3"I think that the internet HAS created people as dumb as hockey pucks that only take tidbits, and headlines as the end all, be-all of truth and facts. In fact most schools are reporting grades dropping because students get little or wrong information posted on the internet. The internet is a supplement not a sole source to rely on. And if you do rely on the internet, look at sources, then look at opposing information and then check those sources as well!"
Agreed to an extent, but that's still vastly superior to and more varied than the tidbits they were getting from TV news and newspapers, and they're only a small step away from digging deeper *IF* they feel it is important to them. Much of my argument centers on the fact that government policy seems irrelevant to people because the chances that the public does get to express their approval of government policies are too limited. In the case of most elections, the issues are distilled down to pointless distractions, with no real choice given over the aspects of our government people consider to be relevant.
"Really? is that why welfare is the largest it's ever been?
Is that why entitlement programs are the largest they have ever been?
Is that why Obama wants to tax more? Because it seems like automatons are voting for someone to try and pay, and take care of them."
First of all, people raised on the internet have barely had a chance to flex their muscles as a demographic, let alone demand welfare or entitlements. Give it some time to see the effect in those areas. As for the claim that those programs are growing, few people are going to turn down free money for nothing, and it's natural that once these programs are in place, that they will continue to expand to the point of collapse, since people have an incentive to take advantage of them for all they're worth. Couple this with rising expenses in food, medicine, personal care, etc., combined with an increasingly weak economy, and it would be difficult to imagine these entitlement programs going in any direction but up.
"The reason we learn about wars, is to understand the causes and reasons people fought. Many times we learn from the past 'so we do not repeat it'"
My whole point is that we're not learning the relevant aspects of history that would allow people to avoid repeating it. Knowing that the Norman Conquest took place in 1066 is not going to help you understand why the Brits are such pussies (sorry, couldn't resist), or anything at all beyond hopefully passing a test. History education is often reduced to complete irrelevance, and this story's author was only propagating that mistake.
"1- Ever hear of CSPAN ? They ARE transparent and they have committee meetings as well. Congress is open to the press and it is televised ! So in conclusion:
2- There is probably a reason they talk down to people like you... because you ARE idiots."
C-SPAN is unidirectional, and rarely insightful, as most substantial discussions do not occur under the auspices of its cameras. I'm talking about real deep discussion of the current issues our representatives are dealing with, including discussion in the direction from the public to the reps., and back again. Your contempt for the public's intelligence is completely unproductive, as you're not going to make people smarter by treating them like idiots. People might reveal themselves as uninformed if they did get a chance to voice their concerns with their government, but at least they might even learn a thing or two so they're not quite so uninformed the next time. Obviously, some kind of peer review, filtering and moderation process would be needed to make any sense out of the information coming from such a large group of potentially-uninformed people to our representatives, but thankfully, Slashdot solved that problem a long time ago fairly well, and it's possible to have an intelligent discussion with tens of thousands of participants. There is intelligent discussion to be had among the general public, and this type of discussion would do wonders for getting more people involved in politics, if they felt that they might have an impact on their country's decision making.
- ricker2005, on 07/03/2008, -0/+4Speaking of not getting it...
- SpacePoet, on 07/03/2008, -0/+2I always thought that with the advent of the internet and other mass communications we would see the thinning down of government because the people would actually be able to participate and guild its policies through instant votes either regionally or nationally. Example: Your rep wants a bill passed. That bill is drawn up and finalized. Bill is put online publicly for the populous to either vote it down or up, kinda like digg, but more informed because you could have entire teams of lawyers and intellects who would sift through complicated matters and be able to explain them to people en mass. The voters wouldn't have final say, more of an equal participation like another branch of government. This would bring the population up in knowledge and interest of what the government was doing and project a loud voice in times of grievance. As it stands now, the average citizen has practically no voice. I truly feel this would be a progressive approach to our failing system.
- WiseWeasel, on 07/03/2008, -0/+2I've thought about the same thing, branding it something like "Democracy 2.0", and trying to push for it at the state level to get our foot in the door. I bet California could go for something like that... The simple fact that the state would have the opportunity to have some experts communicate their stance in an intelligent manner to people, without the news networks dumbing everything down with clueless reporters, would be worth it in educational value alone. If there could actually be a meaningful two-way communication taking place, that would be quite the breakthrough.
- Murrabbit, on 07/03/2008, -2/+4"How ignorant are we?"
Is it a bad sign that I don't even know that? :O - idiggitall, on 07/03/2008, -4/+18I can't be bothered to read that article.
- praetoriansword, on 07/03/2008, -1/+2Might I recommend an alternative to this news article?
www.chickswearingbikiniswithseethroughtopsthatarereallyreallyhot.com
Giggity.- keviniskool, on 07/03/2008, -0/+2Wait a minute... That link doesn't work!
You lied to me.
You're a phony, a big fat phony.
- keviniskool, on 07/03/2008, -0/+2Wait a minute... That link doesn't work!
- forceuser, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1Seriously
tl;dr - ultraJesus, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1That's more apathy than ignorance.
- praetoriansword, on 07/03/2008, -1/+2Might I recommend an alternative to this news article?
- beermaker, on 07/03/2008, -4/+3too many words. in conclusion how ignorant are you?.
a lot. a little. nothing.? - AGONYTUESDAY, on 07/03/2008, -2/+6very.
- visitmyblogplz, on 07/03/2008, -10/+13By the number of people supporting Obama and burying every anti-Obama comment I would have to agree that Americans are idiots. (just watch how low my comment will go into the negatives)
- tufftugg, on 07/03/2008, -1/+3 And yet the Rest of the World thought the most stupid thing was Americans election Bush.
- MaceSoul, on 07/03/2008, -0/+3And those of us who support Ron Paul think you're all idiots.
- tufftugg, on 07/03/2008, -1/+3 And yet the Rest of the World thought the most stupid thing was Americans election Bush.
- MajorOutage, on 07/03/2008, -4/+33Here's another shocking fact: This plague of ignorance is not exclusive to Americans.
- powatom, on 07/03/2008, -1/+3Stereotypes are simply exaggerations of facts. America may not be as dumb as everyone says it is, but I have met more seriously ignorant Americans than ignorant people from any other nation.
- ltethe, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1Maybe you need to meet more people. Americans are dumb as rocks, I agree.
But if you dropped into backwoods Japan, or China, or Australia, or Poland... I think you would find the same level of ignorance.
- ltethe, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1Maybe you need to meet more people. Americans are dumb as rocks, I agree.
- SoulGrub, on 07/03/2008, -0/+0I find Americans rely far more on television for their news, the problem being that TV news is designed to entertain and not to be informative. You won't find this problem nearly as bad in say European countries, that tend to rely more on reading. You sure as hell won't find anything so stupifying like "Hannity and Colmes" anywhere else. Hopefully the new generation of internet users won't be so bad.
- powatom, on 07/03/2008, -1/+3Stereotypes are simply exaggerations of facts. America may not be as dumb as everyone says it is, but I have met more seriously ignorant Americans than ignorant people from any other nation.
- teslakoild, on 07/03/2008, -12/+0only in America can nobody start with nothing and build their dream.
http://tinyurl.com/6qd7ug- adriantr, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1Put simply, your wrong. I really don't think it's worth me explaining why.
- Hangly,