What is Digg?442 Comments
- annoi, on 11/01/2007, -9/+202As a patriot and as someone who loves the freedom of America, please care about this and digg it. Even if you disagree with the opinions of the parties involved, it is still your duty to stand up for their right to express their opinion. If these kinds of things are allowed to continue, they may eventually come show up on your doorstep to harass you for what you believe in; whatever that may be.
- miriclaire, on 10/10/2007, -12/+182An excellently reported and thorough article! This situation got out of hand because of bully police tactics. The whole notion of not being permitted to desecrate a flag is a whole other issue. What's at stake here are people's basic rights to be safe inside their home.
- starrychloe, on 10/10/2007, -6/+116Nothing says protest like a good old fashioned letter in the mail.
City of Asheville: Mayor
70 Court Plz
Asheville, NC 28801
(828) 259-5600
ashevillenc.gov
Van Duncan
Sheriff
(828) 250-4503
Buncombe County Sheriff's Office
202 Haywood St.
Asheville, North Carolina 28801
http://www.buncombecounty.org/governing/depts/Sheriff/ - inactive, on 11/01/2007, -8/+109Don't expect ***** to happen to this thugs. When was the last time you've heard of a cop going to jail for beating a citizen senseless, or invading their home illegally, or even shooting someone in the back?
- whatthefu, on 10/10/2007, -6/+77How the ***** can you justify arresting a person for desecrating a piece of cloth? The flag is a SYMBOL. And it is and American citizen's guaranteed constitutional right to express their freedom of speech. If you want to burn the flag and you're not breaking any REAL laws or endangering anyone by doing it, then by all means it is your right.
- jdh24, on 10/10/2007, -7/+74Fighting for 'freedom' overseas...fighting against freedom at home. Good job, government.
- Gadren, on 10/10/2007, -8/+71Utterly sickening. Great job holding sacred the symbols of the principles you've already thrown away. These pigs, and anyone who supports this kind of a police state, need a few tasers to the face.
- kethraal, on 10/10/2007, -8/+63"When a police officer asks you for identification, you are required to produce it."
*****. ***** ***** *****. You do _not_ have to produce identification just because a cop asks for it. You do have to identify yourself if you are being detained for committing (or if you are suspected of committing) a crime, but just because Officer Joe Schmoe decides that he wants "your papers please" doesn't mean that you have to pull out your ID.
"On a side note, the flag is more than a piece of cloth. If you desecrate the flag in front of me, I'll put you in the hospital."
Really? Because to me it seems like that it is a piece of cloth, and that you've just threatened me. If it makes you feel any better, I actually have my laptop sitting on an American flag right now. It makes a good tablecloth. On a side note, I'm not in the hospital. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -7/+58I fly a peace flag above my state flag.
Until the imperial United States returns to constitutional government I won't allow it's battle flag on my property. - smackywentz, on 10/10/2007, -5/+52Those are crimes, not inherent rights. Ironically thinking someone should not burn the flag because of it's symbolism, destroys it's symbolism. So who is the un-American one? Don't try your spin *****, this isn't one of those issues.
- zioxide, on 10/10/2007, -5/+48While I don't believe that someone should be desecrating the flag, it is their constitutional right to do this if they please. The police here had no right to do what they did.
In the article it says that the offiicer is filing for assault charges because his hand got hurt while he was trying to get into the home of the people. He had no right to do this and should be charged with breaking and entering, although he never will be.
Our country is so *****. - smackywentz, on 10/10/2007, -8/+48I'd hazard a guess that there is much more at stake than that. Like everything we hold dear. This is *****! This kind of *****, does not and will not fly. I don't care, what bipartisan answer you give me, right or left, this ***** is wrong and you ***** know it. This is the time, right now, to rally the troops, use every outlet you have to speak out against this. We have a weekend, so for those of you who are too busy, you have nothing to bitch about.
- 938MeV, on 10/10/2007, -8/+47"If you desecrate the flag in front of me, I'll put you in the hospital."
Then you obviously hate everything that the flag stands for. - gronkers, on 10/10/2007, -4/+36The flag was prolly made in China anyway.
- anteyekon4myst, on 10/10/2007, -8/+39I'm not American, but I find what is happening to your country deeply concerning. Any suggestions on what someone outside the country could help change things in your country while respecting the system. Anything like a lobby group of internationals...anything like that?
- CajunGuitarist, on 10/10/2007, -7/+36I admire this man for doing what he thinks is right. His flag, his taxes, his property, his right to do whatever the hell he wants with the American flag. Even burn it. He wasn't hurting anyone. But in an age of censorship and lawsuits it's ok to haul someone off to jail for having a difference of opinion. People should never fear their governments, it's the government who needs to fear its people.
- m0d3s7m1k3, on 10/10/2007, -4/+33When will someone fight back?
- jdh24, on 10/10/2007, -5/+33Assaulting someone and restricting their right to freedom of expression and speech in order to defend a symbol of their rights to expression and speech. The logic is astounding!
- smackywentz, on 10/10/2007, -2/+28I hate it as much as anyone else, but it is their RIGHT *****. I turn your attention to Nazi Germany:
"First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me."
-Pastor Martin Niemöller - smackywentz, on 10/10/2007, -5/+30I've come up with an idea. Just like they did, hang your own American flag in distress, take a picture of it and send it to your congressmen and women as well as the Buncombe County sheriff's office. Be sure to include your views on the matter. As Samuel L. Jackson eloquently put it in Black Snake Moan, "I ain't movin' on this!"
- UglieJosh, on 10/10/2007, -2/+27Wait, so calling yourself an American patriot while standing up for American values is *****? I guess you can call me an expatriate then.
***** it! Burn the flag! Thats right, I said it! I am more American than any of you pussies. - bitORlogic, on 10/10/2007, -1/+25"No one has the right to mock the men and women in uniform ..."
Yes, they do. It's a little thing called the First Amendment. - unsurebtwilling, on 10/10/2007, -3/+26it's funny how the cops and the national guardsmen who reported this are willing to allow another symbol ( the constitution and the bill of rights ) to be shredded. The flag is just a symbol people.
Maybe I've watched to many "COPS" but it seems more like THUGS anymore - ppatalano, on 10/10/2007, -3/+26Texas v. Johnson (1989)
Outside the Republican National Convention in Dallas, a protest of Ronald Reagan's policies had been organized, during which a United States flag was burned. Johnson, the man responsible for the flag burning, was arrested under Texas law, which made the desecration of the United States or Texas flags crimes. Johnson was convicted and sentenced to one year in jail and a two thousand dollar fine. Texas reasoned that the police were preventing the breach of peace that would be erupt due to the flagburning, and preserving the integrity of the flag as a symbol of national unity.
Johnson's conviction was overturned by the Supreme Court of Texas, which ruled that this mode of self-expression was protected under the First Amendment to the Constitution. The Supreme Court upheld this ruling, stating the flag burning was "expressive conduct" because it was an attemptto "convey a particularized message." - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -3/+25The map is not the territory. The flag is not the country. Uber-nationalism is not sane.
- Scheissen, on 10/10/2007, -2/+22Read the ***** article. The couple have an eye witness account supporting their side that the officer kicked down the door and then slammed into it.
- deadowl, on 10/10/2007, -10/+30Cool your jells Nixon. You wouldn't like it that Dr Zoidberg desecrated the flag. You might even find the image of it festering in his bowels offensive. But the right to freedom expression is guaranteed in the Earth constitution.
Arooo! Maybe so. But I know a place where the constitution doesn't mean squat. - subterfuge, on 10/10/2007, -11/+31I'm honestly appalled that America is the richest country in the world while being so hypocritical at the same time. oh yeah, and America committed genocide against the native americans, but nobody talks about that holocost. it's because we killed them in the name of freedom, see.
- bIuebonics, on 10/10/2007, -2/+21"A crime is nothing more than a right that has been removed from us." this is entirely untrue. if we have the inherent right to life, how then does someone have the inherent right to take away that life?
- UglieJosh, on 10/10/2007, -1/+19I disagree with most of the arguments used against you but...
The sloppy, poorly put together, site "http://www.flagburning.org/" will come to show why flag desecration, is actually, a very patriotic act. Do not let them take away the last act of civil disobedience that is available to us! - MindlessSpartan, on 10/10/2007, -2/+19Texas vs. Johnson (1989)
United States vs. Eichman (1990)
'Nuff Said. - sparql, on 10/10/2007, -3/+19Unless you have enough money to outbid the special interest groups and lobbyists who are running our country, I'm afraid there isn't much you can do.
- UglieJosh, on 10/10/2007, -2/+18Have you even read the... Nevermind.
- kgilbert0, on 10/10/2007, -3/+19Can't you spend 2 minutes and $0.41 for a stamp? Just use my letter.
City of Asheville: Mayor
70 Court Plz
Asheville, NC 28801
Dear Mayor Bellamy,
I am writing regarding a recent situation in West Asheville that I read about which I believe was very poorly handled by the police.
The situation of which I am talking is written about in this article:
http://www.mountainx.com/news/2007/flagged_down_activists_arrested
_in_row_over_protest_flag_allege_abuse_by_bu
Police invaded two citizens' (Mark and Deborah Kuhn) home by breaking through glass inside a door, proceeded to assault Mark and Deborah Kuhn, and threatened to taser them. This all occurred because of a complaint about a flag hanging upside-down outside their house that had several political statements pinned to it.
I am shocked and appalled by how this situation was handled. The police had no right to try to arrest these citizens and break into their house; they had broken no law as far as I know.
You may think that the easy way to remedy this poorly-handled situation is to simply reprimand or lay off (temporarily or permanently) the officers involved in this case.
But I think the problem could run much deeper than just these two officers in this one case. The manner in which this situation was handled strongly suggests a complete disrespect of citizens' rights, freedoms, and privacy by your law enforcement branch.
I would like to request that you carefully reevaluate your training programs for the law enforcement branch in your city, ensuring that you are cover items of this manner so that poorly-handled cases like this one do not happen in the future.
Thank you,
Your name - WoollyMittens, on 10/10/2007, -4/+19All dissidents will be shot. :(
As a European I feel trapped between a rock and a hard place. Islamic-fascism or Corporate-fascism, which one, which one... - DM05, on 10/10/2007, -2/+16Uh uberlord, are you trying to say that freedom of speech doesn't cover flag desecration? If you are, you are ridiculously wrong. The act of flag desecration is covered under symbolic speech, with a long history of supreme court jurisprudence supporting it.
- Pake, on 10/10/2007, -5/+19That will be never as long as we're being run by Democrats and Republicans.
- bfdhud, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14This actually varies from state to state, Some do require you identify yourself if challenged by an officer.
- ferrofluid, on 10/10/2007, -1/+14A quiet word, THE PEOPLE ARE THE COUNTRY, not the government, not the police, not the courts, not the army, not the flag,
the annoying, boring, slobby, snobby,TV watching, drinking, sexing, BBQing, working, not working, students, felons, ditch diggers, paper shufflers etc etc people. - grungegbunny, on 10/10/2007, -9/+22I'll burn the flag right on the street in front of your anti-freedom house.. and if you lay a a finger on me stooge, I'd sue you for everything including your children's college fund.
move to N.Korea they can use people that hate liberty. - BelXul, on 10/10/2007, -2/+15This is the part of that article that bugs me most: "Constitutional or not, a flag desecration law is on the books in North Carolina, which is one reason Mark Radford said he decided to alert authorities about the Kuhns’ flag." If something is declared unconstitutional, then by definition it is not a legitimate law, cannot be upheld, nor can it be enforced.
- TheGrunt, on 10/10/2007, -4/+17"Arooo! Maybe so. But I know a place where the constitution doesn't mean squat."
The oval office? - msarge, on 10/10/2007, -1/+14Hey man, thanks for your concern.
- ferrofluid, on 10/10/2007, -0/+13Burn the flag, restore the stolen ideals behind the flag.
The US people are more important than a piece of clothe made in China. - Gaki, on 10/10/2007, -2/+15SYMBOL. It is not freedom incarnate, just a piece of cloth that some people have chosen to represent it. To other people around the globe, that very same flag you think says "freedom" means entirely the opposite.
- bfdhud, on 10/10/2007, -4/+16There is no room for logic in my fanaticism
- compgeek, on 10/10/2007, -3/+15good lord I hope they get to the bottom of this. this should be freedom of speech regardless of it the flag had things on it or not
- annoi, on 10/10/2007, -4/+16Here is another article concerning the incident. There are mistakes within the article about what actually transpired, but so be it. Its more information, and one should know enough the read between the lines.
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770726111 - Shadic, on 10/10/2007, -4/+15What are the chances of somebody actually slamming the door on a person's hand, and to have it then break through the window?
...I mean, seriously. It's pretty ***** obvious that he punched through it. - freff, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11"Being in your home does not make you immune to the law."
The Forth Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
I swear I despair more and more for this country every single day. The officer showed up to their home, showed this state statute (which incidentally would probably not withstand a constitutional challenge), and then gave the couple the opportunity to comply with the law. They did, and it should have ended there. Afterwards, the couple DID NOT have to show their ID's on the whim of the officer. Unless he was preparing to arrest them as they stood on their porch on some other charge, requiring them to show ID's at that point was nothing short of harassment, and arguably violates their 5th amendment rights against self-incrimination. Everything involving his entry into their home at that point was simply good old police-state fascism.
Anyone arguing that the authorities acted properly here really need to understand that THESE ARE YOUR RIGHTS TOO THAT YOU'RE LOSING! -
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