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70 Comments
- littlebylittle, on 10/12/2007, -7/+24So what are we going to do with our returning soldiers who have mental health issues as a result of the war? Turn them out on the streets or put them in prison like we do the majority of our existing population with mental health issues?
We need to start planning and allocating funds now. - NICU, on 10/12/2007, -12/+29No, thanks to our republicans who 'support the troops' we'll just send the disabled, injured, or ill troops back to the war. (Not enough time to find all the proof articles on that one, theres been plenty on Digg lately) Instead of those damn troop-hating democrats who want to bring all the troops home and not expose them to more unnecessary harm. Its ironic how harmful 'support' can be.
- nickdngr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16i'm stationed in baghdad right now, they push mental health like they push ammo on us. help is available if it's wanted, the problem is, all too often, soldiers themselves don't choose to seek it, or they think that by seeking it people will think less of them. as far as the quality of the combat stress clinics here, i don't know i've never been to one, but the issue is addressed often and has been for atleast 3 years in theater because they offered to us over here back in OIF 2 as well.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19I hate to use comparisons to Vietnam (since it is done so frequently) but the similarities are uncanny.
- quakerorts, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17War will do that to people, especially very young people. Just imagine the mental health crisis for Iraqis. Oh, Georgie, what have you done?
- AntBing, on 10/12/2007, -11/+19My brother is in Iraq and he believes in the cause. I'll take his word over anyones. He has volunteered to go back twice now and even though I'm scared he may not come home I am still incredibly proud of him. He tells me it helps to talk about things he's seen and done over there, so I always make myself available whenever he comes home. He knew what he was signing up for when he joined the military and has the guts to accept the consequences that come with it. If you know a veteran, talk to them, it's the best therapy. Don't forget to thank them as well, even if you don't believe in the cause, it still helps them to regain some normalcy.
Edit: If I ever see someone spit at him, I'll be the one in jail, for murder. - futureb, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13I don't think Bush and the Army are intentionally ignoring mental health needs. I think it's more of a subconscious thing with them: they really really want to represent to the American people that the war is going well, that Iraq is stabilizing, etc. The idea that our soldiers are so traumatized by war that they come back needing immediate mental health treatment punches a HUGE hole in their narrative of the war. They are too invested in the success of the Iraq war to plan for any of its negative consequences.
Here is another one: the refugee problem. They have absolutely no plan for dealing with it, because dealing with it would mean admitting that their policy is a failure.
It's really a shame... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+20Oh, but we can't talk about how truly supporting the troops means NOT SENDING THEM TO DIE FOR A LIE.
Because the troops might hear us, and then they'd know!
Yes, that's the mentality of anyone who attacks war detractors as "unpatriotic." You think we've progressed since McCarthy? THINK AGAIN. - Gunite, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10"Oh, Georgie, what have you done?"
Indeed, but Bush's supporters (those who voted for him 2nd time around) bare just as much of the responsibility.
Few seem to comprehend the long term side effects of war, or they just don't care. I can't imagine how messed up the Iraqis must be from the trauma.
I think if you send someone (a soldier) to go and kill on your behalf, when they come back, they are your responsibility, for ever. That means if they can't function properly - feed, house, cloth them-self or their family, you (the public) better step up and do it. Properly. - precision4u, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Before I comment, anyone else see the irony in killing yourself because you might be ordered to go back to Iraq where you might be killed? Or is this one of those, 'I'm killing myself now to save me from killing/harming anyone in Iraq'? I dunno, seems kinda odd...
In any case, when you have a war, people are going to have these problems. Hell, people NOT even IN the WAR have mental problems as well as they are exposed to the violence that is war.
Now, don't get me wrong - I sympathize with the soilder. My family is made of them, going back to the revolutionary war. I am probably the first to not become one of the enlisted. I understand that when you put on that uniform, when you cash that check, when you get the benefits through VA (if you get them), and get your GI Bill paid, there is a price - your life. Even if you don't die, you are changed. Being in the military is not like your 9-5. Being in the military is usually a 24x7x365 day way of life. You can't compare their job with a job like you punching your keyboard. Every soilder, ever single one, is going to have mental problems - they are TRAINED to KILL other people. Those of us that are normal (and granted, there are some professional killers who have no qualms about killing) deal with this in different ways. One of those might be suicide while another might be alcohol. This, I hope, is pretty obvious.
What is disgraceful, if anything, is the way this article is being played. The article screams to me "NO ***** SHERLOCK! WHAT'S NEXT, THE DAY AFTER TODAY IS TOMORROW?' It is not pointing out the above, but rather implying, through context, that war is making people suicidal - which is a no brainer.
To those who go - oh, well, shouldn't we have learned from the past about this? Well, we did, and we ignored it. It is considred a part of the job. Anytime you are trained to do something counter to your moral beliefs, and then you go and do that, you are going to be ***** up in the head. THIS IS A NO BRAINER. If YOU join the MILITARY and YOU DON'T expect to be ***** up in the head when you get out, YOU ARE A MORON. If you know this, and still go in - guess what, I can't feel a whole lot of compassion for you - although I might feel sorry for you.
You can go on and on about - 'but this is an illegal war' all you want. The truth remains, if it wasn't this war, it would be another. If it wasn't this conflict, it would be another. Soilders aren't kept for peace - they are kept to kill. Now, if you have some moral objection to how they should be killed, I find that quite funny, because in the end, they are dead - their sacrifice to me is the same either way - they died for their country. I don't see how anyone can place a value on the life of a soilder based on which conflict they were in (for example, the dead soilder in WW2 is more valueable than that of the dead soilder in Vietnam because WW2 was more popular - that is ***** retarded). Regardless, they are dead, and they have made a sacrifice. Using their death to make a political point is just inflamatory at best. Using it to make a justification is equally as wrong.
Any you think we are creating billions of more terrorist because of this war? So by that logic, not having the war would of what, prevented terrorism from ever happening? Get a clue... There is always going to be someone who gets pissed off, no matter how you do things, and they will do what they can to get even - human nature 101.
Thanks for playing. - thewump, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9@bobcrotch - again you say something idiotic. Sure, there are pacifists in the US but people in general are not "anit-war" they are "anti-this-war". Peoples attitude towards any war will be in direct relationship to the extent to which they think it either helps them or keeps them safe.
This war is not helping the country in ANY way, and it is making us LESS SAFE by turning thousands of people in to US haters. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10""How about we throw all these ***** who protest the war and spit on the troops in jail where they belong.""
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REPUBLICANS SH!T ON OUR TROOPS!!!
"We don't care how many of you die. We can't admit we were wrong." - observer1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4We may see that the signature wound in this war is traumatic brain injury. Due to increased standards of body armor etc., as compared to previous wars, soldiers are surviving impacts at higher rates yet their brains are still being bounced around their skulls all the same. The only way to detect TBIs is with a brain scan so many of these injuries go undiagnosed yet can cause significant personality disorders.
- RoboRay, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10If nobody CHOSE to serve, YOU would get drafted. You owe those people a lot, whether you want to admit it or not.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5dilosch:
>a lot of the troops want to be there. in fact, by second round of recall, re-enlistment goals have been voluntarily met since... the beginning of the war.
Yes, and enlistment goals were dropped when they weren't met each time, so they've almost always been met.
Seriously. They were about to be short, so they just changed the target. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3>>Oh, Georgie, what have you done?
Iraq was no Disneyland before George Jr, George Sr or even Reagen.
During WWI a frustrated Winston Churchill wanted to use chemical weapons to take out Suni insurgents who had sided with the Turks and Germans. - JoJoDilio, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Being in a war isn't illegal BTW.
Otherwise, the UN would put sanctions on the US. - blackkbot, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6That's good. You will have to update us when you get back. I am going to make the assumption that once you are back for a year they are going to forget about you unless they plan on making you go back.
I wish you luck. - kaiser44, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@nikdngr, saying thank you for you're service is not adequate for what you face and will be facing in the future.I for one am very grateful for the U.S. armed services.
I as a citizen have not done anything of substance for this country from the time I was born till now.
You on the other hand by joining the service for what ever reason are to be commended and thanked, in ways that are beyond measure.
I as a citizen of this country ask you what we can do to make the lives of services men and women easier.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+41 more thing to the dumbass that says the military is brainwashing troops. I guess you think it's cool how in between children's cartoons in Iran they have shows about kids who want to be suicide bombers to kill us. If you got everything you know about the military from conspiracy websites and Hollywood, I suggest you lear what the ***** you're talking about before you speak.
- whutwhut, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2This is not just about troops toughening up and "being men."
http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/ncmain/ncdocs/fact_shts/fs_faqs_on_ptsd.html
"People with PTSD experience three different kinds of symptoms. The first set of symptoms involves reliving the trauma in some way such as becoming upset when confronted with a traumatic reminder or thinking about the trauma when you are trying to do something else. The second set of symptoms involves either staying away from places or people that remind you of the trauma, isolating from other people, or feeling numb. The third set of symptoms includes things such as feeling on guard, irritable, or startling easily.
In addition to the symptoms described above, we now know that there are clear biological changes that are associated with PTSD. PTSD is complicated by the fact that people with PTSD often may develop additional disorders such as depression, substance abuse, problems of memory and cognition, and other physical and mental health problems. These problems may lead to impairment of the person's ability to function in social or family life, including job instability, marital problems and family problems." - futureb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2he's probably a consultant. they speak "powerpoint".
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3My 80 year old father still has nightmares of Anzio.
Why is it any surprise that since we are at war BY CHOICE, we're going to see all of the problems that go with it like soldiers who come home with horrific injuries to the body and mind? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@roboray
I think I am becoming cynical to that defense as the current war isn't exactly the most just or well thought out one. Also, no offense, but I thought that's why they get paid, housed, fed, clothed, scholarships for college, and lifelong benefits/health care (if they are career soldiers)..it's compensation for the professional (yes our army is a professional one) services they provide. They aren't doing this ***** for free; and while I'm sure there is a portion of our servicemen that are in the army because they genuinely love and want to protect (arguable) this country, how many of them are there for what they can get out of it? The family I have in the military are certainly using it to get ahead. I even considered going to the reserves when I neared graduation from college but had parents to talk me out of it (thanks mom!). I'm certainly grateful to my grandfather's generation for doing what they had to do, but it's a little more difficult to feel the same way about things today.
That being said, I think it's amazing how many people will chant "support our troops, they're dying to defend our country" but will then turn around and say "***** the cops" when the cops are probably doing more to protect our communities every day than the current troops are. Is the difference that being a cop is a profession and those individuals chose to pursue a career in law enforcement while the troops didn't?
P.S. Yes it's a callous way to look at the army, but like I said..cynicism. - JoJoDilio, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3There are actually very few similiarities between the War in Iraq and the military action in Vietnam. There is a LOT more support of the troops from both sides, the problem is that people say that "not believing in the cause" is the same as not supporting the troops.
We have an all volunteer military.
We went to Iraq to take out (what some viewed as) a direct threat to America, not threat by proxy.
We are now on a peacekeeping mission.
We are no longer fighting state actors, but terrorists.
etc. etc. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3If the "news" that war is hell for those who fight it is a suprise to you, then I have a bridge to sell you.
- williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4By now it is an informed decision. But, yes, I feel sorry for the people who thought it was something other than an illegal war for a lie.
- thewump, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6@bobcrotch you idiot. No one is saying that the public hates the troops.
- krinthekuz, on 09/16/2008, -4/+4a lot of the troops want to be there. in fact, by second round of recall, re-enlistment goals have been voluntarily met since... the beginning of the war. a single story of someone losing their marbles is indicative of nothing.
and i'm against the war. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Yeah, man up.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6hilary says she wants to leave troops over there
the dems, the one that one congress on a platform of change? and getting our troops home, havent done *****, our troops are still there
people, wake up, 'mainstream' reps and dems BOTH want to keep our troops over there. both claim to support our troops but dont do anything that you could actually consider support, hell they arent even WARNED that their amunitions can perminently poison them with radioactive toxic depleted uranium
our troops are a sacrifice for profits, the republicans know it, the democrats know it, the oil companies know it, even alot of the military knows it!
supporting them = BRING THEM HOME, not a stupid chinese made magnet on your car - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Do you bullet everything you write dude? Try sentences, and then work up to paragraphs. Then, something you say might be construed as a coherent thought.
- d00ley, on 10/12/2007, -9/+9Yes. You *****.
- skytimelapse, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Divided we fall, mike. That's all I have to say to you.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Imagine that, some soldiers are sensitive and seeing people die hurts their feelings. Last time I enlisted it was a voluntary thing. Remember how the New York Times just ran the article on the bitch that was raped twice in Iraq. They knew before they ran the story that she was never in Iraq, but because of their anti-war agenda, they chose to run it anyway. For every crybaby soldier, I can show you 1000 who are proud to do what we do whether it's popular opinion or not. By the way, Shell shock dind't start with Bush. I know, the terrible Bush and his hurricane machine are the source of every problem anyone ever had. Stub your toe? I bet that's Bush's fault too.
- hiPpymIck, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2ive read lots articles about how its a matter of pride/esprit de corps/etc that military personnel
dont seek help...
theyd be letting their team down
...real soldiers dont suffer from stress
i say they should break free from that idea (...or im sorry to say, forever be a sucker)
could someone who knows about this sort of stuff tell me im wrong
when i say this is a gross abuse of their loyalties
..and total ***** - bagadoritos, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Yes the parallels to Vietnam are amazing, are they not:
American public's fickle support of a war sends (correct) message to enemy that our will is paper-thin.
American public not so eager to end the killing as much as getting it off the front page. Think Cambodian killing fields.
American public wanting to show the world that this generation, like the baby-boomers before us, are perfectly willing to kill others for our "freedoms" but not to die for others to have a chance at theirs.
American politicians claiming to "Support The Troops" by undermining the mission that the *vast* majority of them support, watched their friends die for and are willing to continue fighting for even though the other 99% of non-participating "citizens" who aren't involved anyway want us to "come home" before the job is done.
American media quoting opinion polls from an American public who can't find Iraq on a map as if their opinion was educated in any way.
Yes, the parallels are astounding indeed.
From a proud volunteer GWOT veteran. - blackkbot, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5I think the point of life is progress.You realize why you were taught about WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam right? So we don't repeat the same mistakes. We should be working on helping people as well as human kind. Saying 'that's just the way it is' is just a cop out.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Military is brainwashing soldiers to go for their group, to end up fighting and dying in a war only for money for the elite rich white people. This is so sad, because they don't know what has been done to them by those that couldn't care less whether they live or die. In fact, the wealthy elite prefer them to die, since then they don't have to pay for disability problems.
So sad... - futureb, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1i suggest that if you get everything you know about Iran from FoxNews and the US Military, you're as much of an idiot as anyone.
or do you speak Farsi? have you watched a lot of Iranian TV? - williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2It would be nice if digg's UI was a bit more clear about where a comment is going to end up.
- UberNick, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Oh, this article is about *returning* soldiers
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2bobcrotch:
>The vocal majority, like your stupid ass probably don't even vote. So what the hell are you complaining about? You don't even have the right to be upset or angry.
I think it's safe to say that anyone who didn't vote would have been preferable to voting for Bush. At least the people who didn't vote didn't cause any damage to the country. - whutwhut, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1So you're saying that because the war is justified (IYO), we should just abandon the mental health of the troops that served? And you are supporting that idea by the fact that many lives were ruined by the same thing in previous wars? Is this your way of supporting the troops? Wow, I'm sure they really appreciate your sentiments.
- stepnw1f, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Turn them to the streets and while they do that, they'll cut funding for all social services. See, today in America, Republicans don't want to allow "We the People" to help each other, because there just is too much profit in human misery. Jesus would be so proud of the Republicans.
Makes one wonder... how many Republicans who get TAX BREAKS are fighting in Iraq...????
""Crickets""
That's right, wage the war on the backs of the middle class while eliminating their jobs so when they get back, they have to compete with foreigners in some third world country. Nice little game they got going to drive down wages. Time to tar and feather again! - AmericanEmpire, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1@Precision4u
Great intelligent post. I could not have done better. Long live the American Empire.
www.TheAmericanEmpireCo.com
p.s. Some of you might be upset with us promoting our website. But you fail to understand, if you disagree, the lore and lust of capitalism which build the great American Empire. We are both patriotic and capitalist. Later. - pintomp3, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1if only. how can the UN put sanctions on a country that has a veto?
- stepnw1f, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0@ImTheDarkcyde,
No he lied to them and used them at the same time. You think that's ok huh? Well I got military folk that would like to disagree with you.
better name: urTheDumcyde - stepnw1f, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0It has nothing to do with appearances and if it does, they are more sociopathic than I thought. Talk abouty playing politics with lives. They don't believe in the federal government serving the regular folk, only the richest few. Either way, they are sick to leave our soldiers hanging, especially after lying them into an illegal war/occupation in the first place.
If neo-cons or fascists in this country want to play Hitler, I advise everyone of you to do it on your own dime and with your own limp wrists. Thank you in advance.
As for you fundi-nutcases.... please find a cliff and test your faith. Your end times is in your own hands. Please do so without us. Thank you too....
psst... that's not God talking to you by the way. - littlebylittle, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6Nice. Express concern and get hostility?
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