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346 Comments
- stomicron, on 10/12/2007, -20/+114"[Israel]" draws fires since it is a US ally and peer"
"Israel is attacked because of its alliance with the "big devil" United States"
Israel is attacked because an Arab state was diced up by the West to appease those whom the West had wronged. Period.
King Abdullah wrote, way back in 1948 (before the first Arab-Israeli war)
"What would your answer be if some outside agency told you that you must accept in America many millions of utter strangers in your midst—enough to dominate your country—merely because they insisted on going to America, and because their forefathers had once lived there some 2,000 years ago?
Our answer is the same.
And what would be your action if, in spite of your refusal, this outside agency began forcing them on you?
Ours will be the same." - dan2, on 10/12/2007, -28/+99Right On. Enough of this freedom and values nonsense, unfortunately most people are oblivious or are not willing to see the truth.
- bitcloud, on 10/12/2007, -13/+77Anyone who buys into one single "why they hate us" or "why we hate them" argument is buying into propaganda in my opinion.
There's no single reason, some its a rational decision because of foreign policy, for others its because they personally lost loved ones in misplaced bombs, others will be because they were taught from a young age that USA is evil by their parents or community, and i'm sure a large number are interested in the "fashion" of hating the US.
Similarly, theres not one single reason why we went into Iraq. Yes people have benefited from the contracts, others have benefited from oil, defence departments have benefited from the regional positioning, some are afraid, some want to give freedoms at whatever cost, the media have benefited from the fear mongering... etc.
Lots of people are made very rich by war and we're the suckers who get railroaded into debating it when we should be creating and caring and helping and loving one another... - stomicron, on 10/12/2007, -22/+63@alder
Are you serious? On May 13, 1948, there was no Israel. Where did it come from? It must have been wild, untamed land filled with savages before Israel was founded, right?
You're missing a very significant part of Middle East history. Read up on that and then get back to us, please. - silenceHR, on 10/12/2007, -18/+58i just love how americans tend to forget acctual roots of AQ, that being CIA arming and training Aphgan mujahedeen to fight Soviets. There is where most of the AQ leadership met, got training and started their jihad....
even f****** Rambo went to help mujahedeen, thats how they were seen just 20-ish years ago.... funny how "freedom fighters" of 1980's became "terrorists" of 21st century... and how noone is willing to look at the fact that Iran _WAS_ democracy before US backed coup put Shah into power, thus making groundwork for Khomeini...
anyway, great article. i just wonder when will americans realise that it was them and their politics that made 9/11 possible... - mlkmnz, on 10/12/2007, -8/+45I could have written a more succinct explanation to this article:
"If you ***** in someone else's backyard long enough, one day they'll throw it back".
Otherwise known as "you reap what you sow".
Get rid of the internal combustion engine and you get rid of the problem. - CasaMan, on 10/12/2007, -45/+82@alder
Israel isn't "fighting for it's survival" they are occupying Palestinian soil and oppressing the Palestinian civilians and thus are the aggressor. America and Israel give the Middle East a reason to fight for. Powering the support for Muslim extremists. It's fairly simple, the whole world sees it except Americans because the media only shows one side of the story! - manicleek, on 10/12/2007, -13/+44@alder
The Jews only had a majority there when they emigrated during and after WW2 with the crazy notion that because 2000 years ago they lived there they had some right to just go and demand it back.
They then proceeded to bomb British troops and civilians (yes, that would be bomb as in TERRORIST) until Britain was forced to hand over land to form the state of Israel, in the process, kicking a load of Arab people off land they had for generations.
If someone came and did that in my country, I would like to think that I and many others would also fight to get our homes back. (not that I condone blowing up buses and cafes).
All this aside alder, I don't know why you bother submitting posts on here as you've pretty much destroyed your own credibility with some of the ***** you post - nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -19/+48alder: Sorry, but Palestine has existed for a long time and wasn't desolate or neglected like you say. The Jews were not a majority there before the Zionist movement. You're incredibly stupid to buy that propaganda or you're spewing lies to further your cause.
"Radical Muslims like Iran..."
Iran is a country. Countries have no religion. That's the same as saying "Radical Christians like the USA" which sounds equally stupid. - dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -10/+37A HA
So?
- all muslims are fundamentalists or potential terrorists?
- there are more than a billion enemies of the free world?
- they cannot be redeemed or argued with - ever- ?
- They will Kill Kill Kill, preferably as ruthless as possible... ?
- for the first time in history they can be exterminated with no consequences?
- ... they should be exterminated ?
- .... you know precisely who to get and who is innocent and don't make mistakes ?
- the US represents good whereas "they" represented evil ?
- the US is doing nothing but what's necessary for exalted ideals?
- I can trust the US completely?
- Any protest on my part is certain to damage the struggle of good vs. evil ?
- the US has no ulterior motives or secret agenda's ?
- you want to sell me a bridge ? - gadgetuk, on 10/12/2007, -11/+37@alder
Something tells me that your standpoint isn't exactly neutral.
You say there was no sovereign nation in place before the arbitrary creation of Israel. I say, tell that to the people who lived there. As usual Mr Izzard explains it best... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djMFKYTrckA
"You can't claim us, we live here!"
"Ah, but do you have a flag?"
I'm British and I know that we should accept a lot of the blame for the whole middle east situation after we created the ill will by "establishing" Israel then ran away when it got too hot to handle. - stomicron, on 10/12/2007, -24/+48"Israelis have also tried to give the Palestinians an independent state since the mid-90s. The Palestinians refused; they don't want a state beside Israel, they want Israel."
Wrong, they want Palestine. Seriously, you need to read up on this.
"They are the whining Nazis."
Interesting choice of words (apart from Godwin's law, of course), for without Nazis there would be no Israel. I'm not supporting Nazis, I think the Holocaust was atrocious (and real), but that's a fact. - hamadaNY, on 10/12/2007, -22/+43Are u kidding? what palestinian chanting on 9/11 didn't everyone see the apology from the media that the palestinian chanting turned out to be an old recording? go online and search it...you'll see it.
http://ics.leeds.ac.uk/papers/vp01.cfm?outfit=pmt&requesttimeout=500&folder=891&paper=1137
1 - raid517, on 10/12/2007, -12/+32You know people will call me an anti Semite - even though in truth I have never been anti-Semitic. I cared, liked and disliked Jewish people (or more specifically the state of Israel) almost as much as I cared about Danish people from Denmark. (Which put another way is like saying that I was really utterly indifferent).
But now with this most recent turn of events my attitude is changing. I can't help feeling that this whole state of affairs we are in now - Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, the War On Terror (which probably should be renamed 'The War Without End'), 9/11 etc. can all be traced back to one single event, which is the creation of Israel in 1946.
It is increasingly difficult for me to draw distinctions between the Israelis state of perpetual war in the Middle East, where they have supplanted themselves into a culture and a region where they barely belong, and the state of perpetual war that the US and the West at large has been dragged into.
All of the motivations are the same, all of the grievances are identical and in reality all that has happened is that the conflict between Israel and other Middle Eastern states has spilled out onto the world stage - and now we are having to live with and deal with the consequences of Israel's inability and unwillingness to compromise and to live peacefully with her neighbors.
The Jewish people were certainly horribly mistreated during WWII and for that the world is justly sorry. However simply because they were so very badly mistreated clearly should not give them the green light and a blank cheque to go about the world treating other people's and other cultures almost as horribly as they were treated.
One lesson you might be forgiven for thinking that the Jewish people may have learned from WWII would have been humility. But sadly this appears to have not been the case at all - and if anything their history shows almost exactly the opposite to be the case.
Certainly the world owed them a profound debt as a result of their suffering during the holocaust - and this is something that there is no denying. However from my perspective, it seems they have almost all but squandered all of the emotional and political capital that this might otherwise have given them. I know it sounds harsh - but the Israelis seem to be very harsh people - and it is sad that they would seek to abuse the trust and friendship of the world in the way that they have since the state Israel was first brought into being.
So OK, they they say they are fighting for their survival. Well I also think that is now more true than ever, because if they can turn largely indifferent and somewhat sympathetic people like me against them, and if they can do the same with many other ordinary people in the world too (which is all this war really seems to have achieved) then yes, I would say they certainly have cause to fear that they are fighting for their survival - because increasing numbers of people like me may well be led to question their legitimacy.
If you want to survive, surely the best way to do that is to not turn the hearts and minds of the world against you? Sadly however this seems to be a lesson that the Israelis really are incapable of taking on board.
From my perspective (again) they seem like little more than self serving, arrogant, jingoistic, militaristic overlords, drunk on their own power and on the realisation that their comparative military might allows them to behave whatever way they may wish in this region - and to do so with total impunity.
Well maybe they shouldn't have such an easy time of it. Maybe it's time that people did start asking the tough questions?
Ultimately I see no way out of it. No really sustainable way forward. Israel will always be in a state of perpetual war, simply because it is little more than the last vestige of a past colonial ideology - where the West imagined it had some God given right to lord it over the world and to carve up the map (just as they had done many times in the past) in an attempt to to appease the Jewish people for their suffering in WWII and to serve serve their own selfish interests. The Jewish state is nothing short of an alien entity, something that was imposed on the Middle East by the great Western powers, with very little care or concern for the wishes and aspirations of the long term inhabitants of that region. (And yes I know that some Jews say they have a historical claim to the region and that a certain number of Jewish people had always lived there - but they were always previously a tiny minority - with the huge majority of inhabitants being almost exclusively Arab - a condition that only changed after the mass influx of European Jews after the end of the second world war).
And how can this end? The whole world it seems has been dragged into the fight between Israel and her perpetual struggle to exist in a region in which she probably does not belong. How else can it end - other than by one day the world entering a final and ultimate global configuration, in what ultimately will be a war of cultures, of ideals and of religious ideology? And all for what? For what was possibly one of the biggest mistakes in the history of Western civilisation, where yet again we have attempted to impose our morals, our ideals, our guilt, our complicity and ultimately our people too in a part of the world where clearly they do not belong?
It is perhaps only now that we can see short sighted we really all are - and how misguided and evil our past colonial practices and attitudes really were. - alder, on 10/12/2007, -26/+44"what palestinian chanting on 9/11 didn't everyone see the apology from the media that the palestinian chanting turned out to be an old recording?"
No, nobody witnessed that apology, as it never took place. Your claim about the "old recording" is blatantly false propaganda spread by various parties obviously interested in hiding from the American public the real stance of the Palestinians (and others) towards it :
http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/cnn.htm
"No, CNN did not air decade-old footage of Palestinians dancing in the streets. Eason Jordan, CNN's Chief News Executive, confirmed that the video used on CNN was in fact shot on Tuesday, 11 September 2001, in East Jerusalem by a Reuters TV crew, not during the Persian Gulf conflict of 1990-91 — a fact proved by its inclusion of comments from a Palestinian praising Osama Bin Laden (whose name was unlikely to have come up ten years earlier in connection with the invasion and liberation of Kuwait) as well as the appearance in the video of post-1991 automobiles."
...
"Reuters, the international news agency whose camera crew shot the footage, issued the following statement:
Reuters rejects as utterly baseless an allegation being circulated by e-mail and the Internet claiming that it circulated 10-year-old videotape to illustrate Palestinians celebrating in the wake of the September 11 tragedies in the United States.
Reuters welcomes a statement by the Universidad Estatal de Campinas-Brasil (UNICAMP), one of whose students was the author of the original e-mail, setting the record straight.
The videotape in question was shot in East Jerusalem by a Reuters camera crew on September 11 in the immediate aftermath of the attacks on the United States. The footage was broadcast by CNN and other subscribers to the Reuters video news service."
In fact, the reverse of your supposed "apology" was released: CNN vehemently re-affirmed the validity of its report in face of the false accusations:
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/20/cnn.statement/index.html
"There is absolutely no truth to the information that is now distributed on the Internet that CNN used 10-year-old video when showing the celebrating of some Palestinians in East Jerusalem after the terror attacks in the U.S. The video was shot that day by a Reuters camera crew. CNN is a client of Reuters and like other clients, received the video and broadcast it. Reuters officials have publicly made the facts clear as well.
The allegation is false. The source of the allegation has withdrawn it and apologized. It was started by a Brazilian student who now says he immediately posted a correction once he knew the information was not true. This is the statement by his university — UNICAMP — Universidad Estatal de Campinas-Brasil."
There were, in fact, celebrations not only in the PA but throughout the Arab and Muslim world, even including the "liberal" Beirut:
http://watch.windsofchange.net/themes_09.htm - manicleek, on 10/12/2007, -11/+26@alder
You asked for proof and you just gave it
The British were never bombed? here's ONE example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
The bombing of the King David hotel, full of British civilians
And how can Jews be a majority in Israel before there is an israel? they were a majority in the region after flooding the place. Does that mean if enough French people moved to england they could make it part of France? or if enough Canadians moved to Illinois they could make that part of Canada?
Proof of your *****, and if you need more just look back over all the submissions you've ever made and see how many have negative diggs.
One other thing which goes for many people commenting on many stories of this ilk, criticising Israel for its treatment of Palestine etc is not anti-semetism, anti-semetism is a hatred of Jewish people, criticising Israel is Criticising a state and its actions, I don't care if they're Jewish, Christian or Muslim, what they are doing, and how they came to be is wrong - drg73, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17"wow, so watched 10 mins of your video so far and apparently anyone who says "death to america" is a jihadist?"
I can clearly remember the crowds of americans shouting "death to all muslims" .. and the cheering and dancing in the streets after the tsunami hit indonesia.
IMO You are attributing modern values on a bunch of savages. - balp, on 10/12/2007, -8/+20@alder
To site your own sources The arabs was a minoritry of 68% of the population (1948), Jews where the majority with 38% of the population. Most of the Muslim population where born inte the conrtry (93%). Manu of the jews where born in the contry (59%). (By 1900 the figures for the population vas 98% Arab...)
The name palestine goes back to the rames the III in eygpt. However the brittish form wasn't used untill 500 BC. The bordes was howeven not that strict until later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine, gives more, also the page for the mandate give a some background to the imigration of jews to the area during the time between the two wars.
Also talking about deats the number of killed palistinians has been higher than isrealies for all years. Both side are killing there are no such things as a white gallant kight defiding it self in this conflict. Both sides are using terrorism to gains it's goals. - edmack, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19America still has freedom values? Phone tapping, DMCA, gay-marriage ban, information mining - America is not the wonderful land of liberties that the people seem to beleive it is.
- stark23x, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16In a roundabout way it's SORT of true. Radical Muslims, the fundamentalists, hate us (us being any Western nation) because we don't follow the strictest Muslim traditions. Anyone who doesn't deserves to die, but we're especially evil because we promote forms of government that directly oppose Muslim rule, we promote equal rights for women, we allow - in their minds - excessive amounts of sin as part of our culture. In fact, some things we protect by law are transgressions against Allah. Again, as the fundementalists see it.
It's sort of about freedom, but that's a simplified, maybe OVERLY-simplified way of stating it. It's a soundbyte. - pglee2005, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12on days like today I don't know what to believe. If the details of today's plane bombing plot prove correct - we had a lucky escape from a death toll in the order of thousands.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4778575.stm
How do people become so disenfranchised that this is the answer? Their minds must be full of misguided notions of morality and bigotry and, I'm afraid, hate that this course of action seems likely.
We are right to constantly challenge and scrutinise the actions of our states and others, but we must be aware there are many who do not share our moral compass - Wolfboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11My recollection is that Osama bin Laden's key goal with his terrorism through the 1990s and into 2001 was to drive the United States military presence out of Saudi Arabia. And the U.S. base there was removed within a few years after 9/11.
and now... the various enemies have found other reasons to attack and many who weren't enemies have become enemies. - stark23x, on 10/12/2007, -8/+18That's stupid. Jihadist terrorism was on the rise in the 90's. Get a ***** clue, will you please?
- RickySan65, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14"In Holland they aren't all Muslims, you don't seem them being attacked?"
Nope just politicians being threatened, filmmakers being killed. Why?, they spoke out, which offended, uhm.. well religious fanatics.. don't go around claiming things that are just plain BS. - andrew1193, on 10/12/2007, -10/+19"i just love how americans tend to forget acctual roots of AQ, that being CIA arming and training Aphgan mujahedeen to fight Soviets. There is where most of the AQ leadership met, got training and started their jihad...."
The Afghan mujahideen was not the Taliban. It was not the predecessor of the Taliban, and not the predecessor of Al Queda. The Afghan mujahideen was made up of anti-communists and Islamic conservatives, not Islamic radicals. Osama Bin Laden never received direct aid from the US - only what trickled down to him through Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. Bin Laden never fought alongside the mujahideen, and only provided a little non-military support.
"funny how "freedom fighters" of 1980's became "terrorists" of 21st century"
Except for the fact that they did not. - Akram, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17Firstly, I DO NOT hate america, infact i was raised there for 5 years and then moved to london for another 5. I hate NEITHER of them, in fact i want to move back to america when i can. However the reason things like 9/11 happen is its the only real method the arabs to get back at the American Govt for intervening and helping countries like Israel. Now i understand the USA and Israel are allies, and so naturally in war, Allies help each other, so obviously if America helps Israel opress the Palestinians then of course their allies are gonna reliate, and i think thats why Bin Laden did what he did. Now i think what he did was utter stupidity and what the people did in London i will never understand, cos frankly its a stupid way to get anything solved, and what have the innocent people in WTC and London Underground done, its the GOVT that makes these decisions so maybe they should be targeted, not civilians. But then one could argue, maybe the citizens are to blame for electing these people. Its all rather stupid anyways.
I think the worst part about it is the fanatical muslims who do these things give all the other muslims a bad name. The fact that Islam derives from the word "peace" shows how the religion doesn't mean to hurt others, but you get the odd few who think its their choice with how to solve problems. Palestinians aren't all muslim, alot are christian so you can't blame them for being fanatical muslims.
While i'm here, i might as well go on about "Terrorists" and the "War on Terror"
How in the name of god are civilians terrorists? Bush keeps claiming this is all in the war against terror...........oooooooooooook, last time i checked Lebanon never attacked the US and didn't inflict pain on the civilians, so i don't think they are terrorists.
What about the crazed South Americans that you hear about kidnapping people and terrorising villages, now come on, THEY are terrorists. Yes the ones who did 9/11 are terrorists, but the way some Americas seem to think, the entire Arab world are terrorists.
I think if Bush wasn't around, we'd have a happier world - gadgetuk, on 10/12/2007, -14/+22@Bioshocker
I admire your thrust towards the centre ground and I can't disagree with your assertions. The problem is that Israel existence isn't the end of the story. The Israelis have proved themselves untrustworthy when given weapons and have repeatedly used them against civilians all in the name of the "war on terror" which was conveniently handed to them after 9/11. Of course I deplore the actions of the terrorists and the attacks on Israel are disgusting, but (until the recent election of Hammas) these were performed by terrorist cells. Israels atrocious response to both Palestine and Lebanon is performed by a state. A nation. They have NO excuse for behaving no better than the terrorists and should be subject to UN sanctions on use of weaponry until they can prove they can be trusted not to use them against civilians. The added fuel to this fire is that the US is happily selling MORE weapons to Isreal to replace the ones they've already used knowing full well that for every terrorist they kill, hundreds of civilians will also be killed. I'm not proud to say that the UK has facilitated this arms trade by allowing the US flights to stop over here.
That's why the terrorist numbers are growing - it's the ongoing injustice - and that's why Hammas have gained power. This is going to get no better until Israel is muzzled. - barakatx2, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11If anyone accepts the creation of Israel based on the fact that they lived their 2 milleniums ago, then I'm sure that person would also be fine with the Native Americans getting the continent of North America back too in around 1400 more years? I'm sure the US would support that as much is the creation of Israel, right?
- silenceHR, on 10/12/2007, -8/+16"Your camparison is thus inaccurate. One might be inclined to say that Israelis have established a nation on land that was taken from them long ago."
so native americans (indians) should take their land too?
or maybe europeans should retake northern India or parts of Russia?
THAT was 2000 years ago, bloody hell, if we start "taking back" lands where our forefathers lived 2000 years ago there would be some major changes in the world. they lived here, they left. period. - tmessing, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9All this over some dirt in the middle of the desert. I don't think any god, whether you are Christian, Jewish, or Muslim would want a single life lost for a historic mosque,church, temple, pile of rocks, or piece of desert. It's amazing the killing and bloodshed that has been done in the name of religion.
- MiloMindrbindr, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12short, concise, right to the point. near perfection.
- weaksnyc, on 08/14/2009, -0/+8Why is this article being modded down as "inaccurate?" It's in the Political _OPINION_ category....
- Frodo42, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12On the subject of 'Why do they hate us?', I just read the life story of Muhammad. That's sobering. It has explicit seeds for much of what we're seeing here, including the desire to destroy the state of Israel, and any Jew who happens to be within reach of a fundamentalist Muslim. Muhammad himself ordered the killing of all Jews in Medina, and in the Quran is a request to kill all Jews that fall into their power.
I believe it is high time we stand together to defend an ancient and valuable culture from this attempted genocide. I refuse to let law and order break down at the face of Hezbollah and other terrorists. Islamofascists are present in quite a few countries in the world. We need to find them and stop them, or the violence will only escalate over the coming decades. - vinzster, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Great Piece!
- merm, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11I was thinking the same thing - thank you for bringing us back to the real issue. The only reason we're over in the middle east in the first place is to ensure our addiction to oil can be satisfied.
So, we pay money to the Bin Laden family, who gives us oil, which we use to build bombs and fighter jets, which we then promptly fly right back over and blow ***** up, interrupting our supply, making little children want to grow up to be terroriest, and meanwhile driving up the cost of said oil in the first place, ultimately hurting the average American the most.
Their cycle is a bit different, but basically the same. Get money from West, train terrorists, etc.
Welcome to the American death spiral. - martalli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I guess they must have taken it from the Christians of the Byzantine Empire and later again from the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem...or maybe it was by a gradual process of conversion...something which did not prevent large Christian minorities from remaining in the Ottoman empire (Chaldeans, Coptics, Lebanese Maronites, Armenians, and Greeks, not including the Druze).
- labmouse42, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11@alder
"A warning message was delivered"
Are you really stating that it's acceptable to bomb buildings if people are notified in advance?
Therefore it is acceptable to murder dozens of people if you phone them 30 minutes beforehand?
"No people were targetted in that attack."
By that same logic, you could state that Hizbollah fighers are simply targeting the buildings, and the innocent Israli civilians were not targeted.
Your logical conclusions seem to leave something to be desired.
"there are roughly two camps: pro and anti Israelis."
This is a locial fallacy known as false dilemma. You are stating that if you are not pro Israeli you are anti-Israeli.
This is simply not true, as it is possible to like Israel but diagree with some of their practices.
Another example of this would be "If your not with us, your with the terrorists"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
"Not all anti-Israelis support the elimination of the Jewish state and its Jewish people. But there's a significant portion which does. And overall, this whole party leads to that outcome. "
This is another logical fallacy known as "Hasty Generalization"
Now that you have claimed that anyone who is not pro-Israli is anti-Israli you are stating that because many anti-Isralis wish the elimination of the Jewsish people, all anti-Israli's are focusing on the destruction of the Jewish people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization
"everyone is concererned with the few victims of Israeli self-defense?"
It is intresting, how you define 1,005 as a few.
At least 1,005 people in Lebanon and 101 Israelis have been killed in four weeks of bloodshed which erupted when Hizbollah captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid on July 12.
http://www.jordantimes.com/thu/news/news1.htm
Perhaps you were talking about this.
AN ISRAELI AIR strike in Gaza City on Wednesday killed three people, including a five-year-old girl, and wounded two others, Palestinian officials and witnesses said.
http://www.jordantimes.com/thu/news/news4.htm
"If you oppose the Israeli right to self-defense, you are leading to more Israeli deaths. "
Another false dilemma.
In summary, I can go through and show why your arguements are either illogical or lead the false conclusions, but I have more important things to do than to debunk a raging Zionist.
(btw, if you do work for AIPAC and they are hiring, Ill be happy to spew propoganda too for $100 an hour) - reppy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11"but I always like the underdog so I'm rooting for them now."
That "underdog" has the 4th strongest military in the world and gets all of its weapons from the USA. Oh, and enough nuclear weapons to wipe out the entire region. - TubaTechno, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9"they lived here, they left. period."
um....they lived here....they got forced out.....period. Did you even read any history books? - slimnickyy, on 10/12/2007, -9/+16alder is a paid propoganda agent.
- fredrated, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10"The Jews were a majority in Israel before the founding of the state,"
Actually the jews were never a majority, and are still not. That is why they worked so hard to terrorize the arab population and drive them out in the course of setting up Israel. - Sukino, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"
Meanwhile, back at home, what about those who continue to practice the ugly side of patriotism? I will be angry for a very long time over those who insist that “you are either for us or against us.” We have heard once again the fascistic chant of “America – Love it or leave it.” They just don’t get it. There is no more important patriot in this nation than the citizen who has the guts to stand up and tell the official establishment that it is wrong, that it is forcing the nation to move in a dangerous direction. It is so deeply wrong to viciously attack the patriotism of those who dissent peacefully. ...
I know who I must fear the most – those Americans who do not understand what freedom of speech means, those who equate patriotism with blind obedience to what the current power structure tries to dictate. I care not what any individual wants to believe, though I may wish to debate issues with them. I care very much when anyone tries to strip me, or anyone else, of our right to be true to our convictions.
"
http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=379 - wetworx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9They don't hate us, they simply want us to die. No hate involved. This is not hard to figure out people. Basic tribal warfare, they want their tribe to win. I choose my tribe. I am more than willing for every single one of their tribe to die.
So we are at a stalemate. Now, we jsut have to see who wants it more. - prax, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9It's a waste of your time. These folks here on the comment board don't get that the extremist Islam method is WORSE than anything thought up by fundamentalist Christians. Yet, fundamentalist Christians scare them while Islam is all peaceful and wonderful in their eyes. Whatever.
- eltower, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6THERE'S NO FREEDOM IN AMERICA but how come there's no FBI agents at your door right now either?
- Bioshocker, on 10/12/2007, -7/+13I see your poorly put together, flimsily argued conspiracy documentaries, and I raise you one intelligent, well made, well argued, BBC-screened real documentary.
http://video.google.nl/videosearch?q=power+of+nightmares - Zlobadon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8The really sad part is that a lot of American's still don't get it, and think that cut-n-run appeasements are the answer.
- Akram, on 10/12/2007, -8/+14In Holland they aren't all Muslims, you don't seem them being attacked?
In France they aren't all Muslims, you don't seem them being attacked?
In Italy they aren't all Muslims, you don't seem them being attacked?
man i could go on all day, its nothing to do with you not being Muslim. - silenceHR, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9expelled or not.... it was 2000 years ago. how many tribes have been expelled from various parts of the world since then?
croats came to these parts (western balkans, adriatic coast) some 1300 years ago and guess what... they expelled former occupants. so, should their grand-grand-grand-grand ........ grand sons now come and establish their country here?
there have been so many migration in last 2000 years that this argument is _INSANE_. period.
expelled or not. - JoeyDeacon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8It does raise the interesting tax point that I have never heard mentioned before. I have never heard an american complain about the fact that such a large portion of their tax dollars go to wards an enormous defence/attack budget and the support of foreign states.
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