What is Digg?20 Comments
- varun1s, on 01/27/2008, -1/+17When they say America is a Christian nation, one should be sure to ask "Well.....which sect?"
- inactive, on 01/28/2008, -3/+15""You are all missing the point. The point is that America was founded on Christian principles by men who were seeking freedom to be Christians.""-----------------------
You need to go back and take 3rd grade American history. The founding fathers of this country were mostly Deists and Free Masons. NOT Christians. America is a nation based on FREEDOM. If you want a little Christian wonderland, then GO FORM ONE. America has already been earmarked as a democratic republic. We have no room for religious zealots trying to elbow in.
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/198420.htm - inactive, on 01/28/2008, -1/+11CHRISTIAN NATION WHO?
What civilisation is that? You clearly don't mean the USA. We were founded by Deists who implemented the seperation of church and state and based their ideas on The Enlightment, following the French model. Only after the Christians got control of the Govt (cira 1950s) did they add "In God We Trust" to the money and "One nation under god" to the pledge.
The Fundies are parasites. - inactive, on 01/27/2008, -0/+9I was raised Catholic and eventually phased the word out to call myself, 'just Christian'. Most of my family are evangelical Christians or Roman Catholics. You could imagine what a lovely discussion they'd have if they ever met around the table. If America were ever permanently changed to make it a "Christian Nation", the spirit of America would die and to continue to call it America would be laughable.
- SheilaNoya, on 01/28/2008, -2/+9Excellent point. Exactly WHO gets to interpret the bible to make sure we are following its rules. Is it the strict Southern Baptist who think women must submit to men, dancing and drinking are sinful, and divorce is a sin (Huckabee only believes in "Covenent Marriages"). Or do we let the Lutherans interpret what God wants with much less stricter guidelines? Maybe we should let the Pentacostals decide, in which case we'd all be speaking in tongues and rolling around on the floor. Will we all be required to dance around shaking poisonous snakes in the air to show our trust in God's power of protection?
Religion has absolutely NO place in government, unless you want to become just like the Middle East. - atdigg, on 01/27/2008, -2/+7Yes, how you practice your belief in your imaginary friend is something that shouldn't affect how a country is ruled. Ideally....
- drummerbrother, on 01/28/2008, -2/+7I consider myself a Christian, and can think of nothing worse than a so-called "Christian nation". The very notion is ridiculous, and if you actually read the words of Jesus, it's not something he'd be likely to support. He understood that the point of being a Christian is to bring loving kindness into the world, and forcing it on people by way of the Government is not the way to go. That's not love, that's power.
- inactive, on 01/30/2008, -0/+3Quit trying to prove something and try and actually learn something for a change. You obviously haven't a clue about the framers of our constitution.
VIRTUALLY ALL FOUNDING FATHERS WERE AGAINST AMERICA BEING A CHRISTIAN.NATION:
Quotes from the United States of America's Founding Fathers:
"As the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion.
--Treaty of Tripoli in 1797, President John Adams.
And now we'll continue with the quotes:
John Adams:
" Consider what calamities Christianity, that engine of grief, has produced!"--John Adams
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdit and a whole carload of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity." --John Adams
"But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legaends, hae been blended with both Jewish and Chiistian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed.--John Adams i
Benjamin Franklin
"Lighthouses are more helpful than Christian churches."--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758
"Christians are not, for our Republic, a good example." Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758
Christianity I found to be without any tendency to inspire, promote, or confirm morality, and serves principally to divide us and make us unfriendly to one another."--Benjamin Franklin
Thomas Jefferson:
"Make no law respecting an establishment of religion, thus building a wall of separation between church and State."--Thomas Jefferson _
"Our civil rights have no dependance on our religious opnions, of Christianity, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry"--Thomas Jefferson
"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with Christianity."--Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Samuel Miller, 1808
"No religious reading, instruction or exercise, shall be prescribed or practiced in the schools as it is inconsistent with the tenets of liberty." --Thomas Jefferson, _
" An amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority.
Thomas Jefferson, from his autobiography, 1821,
"Christianity has become the most perverted system that ever shone on man." --Thomas Jefferson,
"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology."--Thomas Jefferson
"The simple teachings of Jesus have turned into an engine for enslaving mankind and has, in fact, constituted the real Anti-Christ." -- Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
"The Civil Government have been manifestly declared to be founded and maintained by a TOTAL SEPARATION OF THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE."--James Madison
Thomas Paine
"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God" -- Thomas Paine, _The_Age_of_Reason_
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church,by the Protestant Church, not by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church."--Thomas Paine, _Excerpts_from_The_Age_of_Reason
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."--Thomas Paine
"The religion of Deism is superior to the Christian Religion. It is free from all those invented and torturing articles that shock our reason or injure our humanity,"--Thomas Paine, _ - morningmatters, on 01/28/2008, -1/+3Considering the fact that almost all of the worst atrocities humans ever committed were over pretexts of religion or race, it's should be obvious that anything close to theocracy is dangerous to the society.
- Coven, on 01/28/2008, -1/+3...and no place else, right?
/s - inactive, on 01/28/2008, -3/+5Well if you aren't a gaybashing hate-mongering Christian, good for you. However, your leaders all are; that's why we generalize, because the face of Christianity in this country is bigoted, anti-science, and repressive in general. Choose better leaders that espouse intelligence and acceptance, and we won't all think you're dumb *****.
- inactive, on 01/28/2008, -0/+1Well, in the states the Churches claim they help the community. But they do nothing of the sort. They do the exact opposite, they hurt our communities. Especially the large or "Mega-churches". They say they give to the needy and are a charity, yet you can't examine their books to really ever know how much they give because they are tax exempt. This is in clear violation of our nation's constitution. These "churches" are really business that scam the communities charity and then invest it in more/ large infrastructure. This newly bought land then becomes nontaxable raising everyone Else's property taxes. Don't believe me? Research the property taxes in areas infested with large churches
- inactive, on 01/28/2008, -3/+4God bless America.
- pintomp3, on 01/28/2008, -4/+5try telling that to ron paul:
"The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government’s hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life.
The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nation’s history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage."
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html - drummerbrother, on 01/28/2008, -1/+2Good call. Lucky for me, I live in New Zealand, and even among Christians here people tend to be far more liberal than our American counterparts. So, I see far less bigotry and repression than I see in America. You're right, people have every reason think ill of Christians, who have too often forced their fundamental beliefs on people. But please, don't be so ignorant as to say something as general as "your leaders all are". Personally, I am not "churchified", I don't buy in to the "Christians lifestyle". Jesus is my leader, simple as that. Remember, people pushing a message of hate will get more media coverage than those pushing love, so consider that you're perhaps not getting a well-rounded view of Christians everywhere.
- strafefire, on 01/28/2008, -1/+2In God We Trust was added to the money supply during the Great Depression in the hopes that people would not abandon American currency and just horde their gold...
- V3n0M, on 01/28/2008, -2/+3Ron Paul interview on G4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwoK5HQ39_0
~4:09 - Layla Kayleigh: Do you feel like there should be a separation between church and state?
Ron Paul: Oh absolutely, the Constitution is very clear there is to be no organized religion... - BuckQJohnson, on 01/29/2008, -0/+0Anyone that can exclude one religion can certainly exclude a sect of the same religion. I know some of the born again evangelicals that are so adamant about there religion over others that they can't see the forest because of the tree in front of them. If they made this country into a theocracy, do they think they wouldn't be on the losing end of any law passed. We already see some theocracies in the middleeast, and the way they rule over everybody is exactly as the one writer of the constitution talked about. The political and financially connected sects will be the ones benefitting, but they don't look at it that way because in a nutshell there blinding themselves to the reality of life.
It's better to have more of a foot in the rapture side than the real world, this way you don't have to really deal with your problems and other people problems. Just wish for a god country and everything will work out, it doesn't work that way. The path to hell has always always been paved with the golden bricks of good intentions. Here's a test that some of you should try with one of these born again or religion is everything people. When they say that you should believe (I'm not saying anyone is or isn't a athiest) in god, tell them okay I will if you can believe that there isn't one. Everytime I had a discussion about evolution or separation of church and state, they can't (even for argument sake) say there isn't one. And thats the main reason for me they should separate church from state. If your not able to be pragmatic enough or open minded to even consider questioning your believes but yet want everybody else to question theres, then individuals like this shouldn't get what they want. Because they could easily (with a smile) try to destroy another sect or another religion on the basis it goes against it.
As a country we should never ever entertain this thought of combining religion and the state apparatus, because eventually it will be used against you and by that time there won't be anybody to protect you. - inactive, on 01/29/2008, -3/+1Not true.
http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm
Deists and masons don't talk like this, now do they? Hmmm???
Your liberalized atheistic nonsense has been rebutted over and over...and still gets posted. - inactive, on 01/28/2008, -18/+2You are all missing the point. The point is that America was founded on Christian principles by men who were seeking freedom to be Christians.
The reason anyone can say, whether accurately or not, that America is a Christian nation is because of the Christian beliefs of its people, not any mandate or law by the government.
Given that most Christians would prefer representatives who, themselves, are Christians, then this is where Christian beliefs and morals have influence on government policies indirectly.
This is no different than an atheist being elected and using his secular humanist outlook on life to guide his policy making.
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