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234 Comments
- bratpack8, on 11/06/2007, -2/+82One need simply look at prohibition. When it was repealed, the murder rate went down significantly, as it eliminated the black market. This is pure and simple, a property rights issue. Your body is your most valuable piece of property, and you should be allowed to do whatever you want with it as long as you don't violate other people's property (and persons). When people start to understand that freedom is logically impossible without property rights, then maybe we'll start to be more free.
- Boshow, on 11/06/2007, -11/+64I've never heard anyone say, "Man, if crack was legal, I would so be a junkie." Legality is not stopping people from doing drugs. Information and education stops people from doing drugs. Despite its shortcomings, DARE kind of works.
- natedouglas, on 11/06/2007, -1/+43I agree. My dad got arrested for smoking pot when I was in the fourth grade. The DARE officer told us drug users and drug dealers were "bad people who care about no one but themselves." I would remember the exact wording, even if I hadn't heard it a thousand times from other sources.
So who am I going to believe? This random cop, who I didn't really like that much anyway, or my father -- who was quite possibly the gentlest, most polite, and thoughtful person I've ever known?
Although I don't smoke pot too often (I had a brownie a couple days ago at a Halloween party, and haven't smoked in a couple years), I believe that my admittedly anecdotal experiences with my father, with my friends -- and with every other pothead I've ever known -- should count for something. And what that experience has taught me is that while potheads aren't guaranteed to be intelligent, or functional, or "accomplished," they're certainly no worse on average than the average American, and probably better than most.
DARE should be what it claims to be about -- educating children to avoid drug abuse. Drug abuse is a bad thing, by definition. But drug use? That's a personal decision. I dislike the thought of police, governmental authority figures, spreading misinformation to my children. A lot of the ***** I learned in that class was flat-out incorrect at best, and by my estimation a pack of well-intentioned lies. There is no such thing as a noble lie.
"Just another grain of sand on the beach of reasons to homeschool my kids." - NikoKun, on 11/06/2007, -1/+41Very good points, to counter the usual brain-dead side "If Marijuana was legal, there would be terror on the streets, and a nightmare in hospitals, and crime!"
In reality, Prohibition actually causes most of the problems, that we currently associated with pot itself! - satx, on 11/06/2007, -3/+35Except DARE is one-sided propaganda and any redeeming messages are ignored by kids when they realize that "hey, weed isn't as bad as DARE made it out to be." If DARE told both sides of the story then I think kids would be more apt to listen to it.
- Groovemaster, on 11/06/2007, -3/+33The CIA would have to look elsewhere for funding for their black ops, as their drug trafficking ring currently brings them in a fortune.
- onisamsha, on 11/06/2007, -1/+30The ending is the best. If you read anything from the article, read the ending....
"Why do I think America would be like this if all drugs were legal?
Because that's the way it was before the drug laws were passed. Yes, there were people whose lives were destroyed by drugs then - just as some people today destroy their lives with drugs, alcohol, financial mistakes, or various character weaknesses - but far fewer people lost their lives to drugs when they were legal.
And America's streets were peaceful.
Has America changed since then? Of course it has. But cause-and-effect relationships don't change. Force still begets force. Government programs still lead to unintended and destructive consequences.
Re-legalizing drugs would put a stop to those destructive consequences - end the criminal black market, end the violence, end the incentive to hook children, and end the production of toxic drugs that kill people.
We have to quit being afraid of the unknown, and instead recognize what we do know - that the Drug War is doing enormous harm to society.
If we care about our children, if we care about our cities, if we care about our country, we have to end the insane War on Drugs." - jmkiii, on 11/05/2007, -0/+29My bible does not agree with your bible. It will smite yours.
- shadus, on 11/06/2007, -1/+24DARE - Drugs Are Really Exciting.
Yah... i got in trouble with that shirt in school in the 90s, now I'd probably be expelled. All hail the thought police and so-on. DARE is a waste, basically 80%+ of the kids in the school i went to who were in dare ended up trying drugs at some point because they found out a lot of what they had been taught was total *****.
DARE would be a good program if it supplied useful truthful information... as it stands, or rather, as it stood when I was in school, it's worthless and probably does more harm than good. - spaceman0, on 11/06/2007, -0/+19The govt will have about $50-$100 Billion extra cash and a bigger problem figuring out where to spend it. Maybe they will have to give free health-care or education to everyone, or reduce the national debt? Or maybe they will conjure up a new enemy and have another war as we all love war, especially the politicians. War makes good entertainment and more profits with extra benifits of reducing population.
Humans have lived on this planet for the last 2 million years eating anything and everything and suddenly now we are more afraid of certain plants and substances than ever before.
Stop the war on plants, animals and the human consciousness. Stop the madness. - nepawoods, on 11/05/2007, -2/+19"Despite its shortcomings, DARE kind of works."
It has been pretty well substantiated that the DARE program increases the likelihood that participants will try illegal drugs. If that's what you mean by "kind of works", yeah.
I agree that information and education are the answer, but DARE is misinformation. And information and education won't stop people from from doing drugs, but it will help them make make better decisions about which drugs they use and how. - shabumike, on 11/06/2007, -0/+16Organized crime would drop 50%.
- Lixie, on 11/06/2007, -0/+15If all drugs were legal, I'd wager we taxpayers would spend hundreds of billions of dollars less each year regulating, investigating, arresting, prosecuting, and imprisoning consenting adults committing victimless crimes. But that's the nut position.
- totorototoro, on 11/03/2007, -0/+14If California and Oregon could tax marijuana, instead of state taxes they could give tax rebates like Alaska does :p
- Dumbledorito, on 11/05/2007, -1/+14Somehow, I can't see a pot smoker causing terror on the streets beyond not wearing pants or causing traffic problems because they've become fascinated with the stoplights in the middle of an intersection.
- onisamsha, on 11/06/2007, -2/+144.78/5 on the troll meter
- DeathJux, on 11/06/2007, -1/+13You guys missed it, that's the funniest comment I've read in the thread. He's obviously playing off digg's tendency to be pro-marijuana.
- andrewcsayer, on 11/03/2007, -0/+11I'm going to get a sandwich. Anyone need anything?
- natedouglas, on 11/03/2007, -0/+11Pot, coke, and opiates would be very cheap. Mushrooms too. Hell, you can spend $50 now on a special grow bag and spores and grow several ounces of fresh, massively potent mushrooms. DMT, for those insane enough to do it, would probably be very cheap too. Meth is very simple, as are most uppers and downers.
LSD is still pretty damn complicated to synthesize, even though the profit margins are insane. Peyote takes a very long time to mature and is a very rare cactus. San Pedro cacti could be grown quickly and cooked down for mescaline, so peyote might not be an issue. I don't know about Ketamine since all I know are street prices, and I don't know anything about the chemistry.
I think there's potential for a lot of competition and low market prices. I can see it getting taxed like a *****... but that would just restore the black market, which would get it to you cheaper, quicker, and likely more potent.
The black market would mandate that it be a "good deal" by our current standards. Otherwise, it just wouldn't work. The government and industry would be puzzled by the apparent low demand, and a lot of people would be left scratching their heads. - codyodell, on 11/03/2007, -0/+11People have experimented with drugs for thousands of years.. It's a part of society that isn't going to go away. Of course there are people that abuse drugs and make them a way of life and depend on them, but there are still a few of us that want to look at the world in a different way or experience something new.
Any kind of WAR on drugs will fail indefinitely, we've already seen it happen. What would work is a different stand on the idea of drugs, lying, government funded propaganda ***** has made us look at drugs with disgust instead of telling us the truth about these substances. Some drugs are *****, but others such as psycho-active drugs or marijuana are no more dangerous than tobacco.
Why is tobacco not a schedule 1 drug? It meets all of the requirements:
(A) The drug or other substance has high potential for abuse.
(B) The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.
(C) There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.
Answer: $$$ - rootnik, on 11/06/2007, -3/+14I haven't smoked marijuana in 13 years. If it was legal, I would so be a junkie.
- Roger, on 11/03/2007, -0/+11So alcohol and cigarettes (two legal drugs) have never killed anyone, right?
- shadus, on 11/03/2007, -0/+11If all drugs were legal we could spend the wasted money on the drugwar in education and health care. We'd end up better off in the long run.
- fuzzmeister, on 11/04/2007, -1/+12The question is, when a drug makes you more likely to violate someone else's rights, should it still be legal? For example, cocaine makes you more active and less logical, and more likely to injure yourself or someone else. However, alcohol also makes you less logical and more likely to hurt someone, and it is legal. Marijuana, on the other hand, is going to make you less likely to hurt yourself or others, and in my view it is ridiculous for it to be outlawed. Cocaine/meth/crack... I'm not sure about those. Thoughts?
- teadrinker, on 11/03/2007, -2/+11Then do not do the stuff. The bible does not say "thou shalt not repeal laws against drugs".
- reddevil3, on 11/03/2007, -0/+7Anyone here watch "The Wire"? It is all about the drug war, focusing on the city of Baltimore. Very realistic look into the whole thing since it was written by former detectives and reporters who have been working in Baltimore for a long time. SLIGHT SPOILERS FOR SEASON 3 AHEAD
So in season 3 the pressure is on all the majors to reduce crime in their district. One of the majors decides to "redirect" all drug activity to a certain isolated part of his district. Basically....legalizing drugs. The end result? Crime is down, the average resident is happy, less murder, etc. But everybody finds out about what happened, and the whole city goes nuts. - hiphoc, on 11/04/2007, -1/+8Dont forget Wall Street and these big banks laundering all the coke money. Citibank, Brown.. all the big banks have been cited by congress for not doing enough to stop money laundering.
- natedouglas, on 11/03/2007, -2/+9"I just cannot, you know, believe in a war against drugs when they've got anti-drug commercials on TV all day long, followed by, "This Bud's for you." I got news for you, folks. A-1, alcohol is a drug, and B-2, and here's the real one, alcohol kills more people than crack, coke and heroin ... combined each year. Pot is a better drug than alcohol - fact, and I'll prove it. You're at a ballgame, you're at a concert, someone's really violent, aggressive and obnoxious, are they drunk or are they smoking pot? (Audience) Drunk! The one and only correct answer, tell them what they've won, Johnny!
...cigarettes legal, alcohol legal, kill more people than all illegal drugs combined times one thousand, they are legal. Marijuana, a drug that kills...um...no one, and let's put in a time frame: ever, is illegal. Isn't it interesting how cigarettes and alcohol, the two drugs that do NOTHING for you, are legal, while pot and mushrooms, two drugs that open your eyes to how you're being ***** every day, are illegal. Isn't it interesting? I'm sure they have our best interests at heart..."
-- The Incomparable ***** Bill Hicks. - inactive, on 11/06/2007, -0/+7You know, honestly, I think I spent most of my time in DARE wondering what it was like to be on drugs. Between that and my fear of being forced to do drugs (I figured that if drugs are so addictive, the best way for a dealer to make money would be to go around forcing kids to take drugs - addiction = instant market, and I figured that since doing drugs is bad, no one would snitch 'cause they'd have to admit to taking drugs), I can't really see anything useful DARE did for me.
- toxicshok, on 11/03/2007, -0/+7Marijuana is not a plasmid
- jbennett1128, on 11/03/2007, -0/+6You'd be allowed to grow your own weed, as powerful and skunky as you want.
- teadrinker, on 11/03/2007, -0/+6The market is already free, but the production costs are high (busts, secrecy, smuggling). Ending the drug prohibition will remove those costs, which will be the main force driving the prices down. Furthermore, the producers will not be the shady types anymore, which would lead to better business practices.
- Treshnell, on 11/04/2007, -1/+7Drugs are bad, mmm'kay.
- vertinox, on 11/04/2007, -0/+6Really? I could walk down the street and buy anything I could ever wanted to put into my body, but yet I don't do it. I know I won't get caught and I could afford it but thats not what is stopping me. I just don't feel the need to do drugs. I don't even smoke cigarettes.
But I feel that if a person wants to do so, it should be their right to put whatever they want in their body even if it kills them. If they break a law while doing, prosecute them just like they would break the law if they were sober. If they mess up their job because of drugs fire them as if they were just coming into work drunk on legal alcohol. Its as simple as that.
The sad part is that my tax dollars are being used to prop up foreign governments with this drug war while an entire anti-drug branch of the governments gets free handouts. I suspect that if the drug trade really did go away then those government agencies would fake one to get funding. They want a war on drugs to last forever... Its as simple as that. - teadrinker, on 11/03/2007, -0/+6Are cigarettes expensive? Yes. Is there a black market for cheap cigarettes? A small one, that does not seem to be causing too many problems.
- vertinox, on 11/06/2007, -0/+6@fuzzmeister
The same thing could be said about money and sex. Do we want to outlaw those as well?
Also alcohol is just as bad as pot and even coke (if not worse) yet we tried prohibition and it didn't work. Yes, I would agree you should not operate a vehicle and drink, smoke pot, or do coke because that is dangerous.
But if you sit at home and mind your own business... Then you should be allowed to do whatever you want to do. - mattressss, on 11/03/2007, -3/+9Uh, did anyone notice this line: "They would get drugs produced by legitimate pharmaceutical companies and pay market prices. They would no longer die from buying toxic drugs, and they would no longer have to mug innocent people to support their habits." Does anyone really think big pharma would be selling us drugs cheap? I'd guess the opposite - and the high prices would be mandated by the government, churches, parents, schools etc. Weed is not going to be cheap enough for kids to get - It's expensive for the CHILDREN! will be the rational.
Just thought of that myself actually. Anyone disagree? - KrayzieKyd, on 11/03/2007, -0/+5Then we'd all be hungry and starving at the same time.
- Oronar, on 11/06/2007, -0/+5No, he defeated the sarcasm WITH SCIENCE!
- icmp, on 11/03/2007, -0/+5Apparently not, but Mr. Browne's point was that since the dealers would now not have to hide underground to sell their drugs and would have to compete with (many?) other people/companies prices would go down. Simple economics. And the less money an addict has to spend on their habit, the less money they have to work for or steal.. So, it seemingly follows that such robbery would have to decrease .. but obviously it would not ELIMINATE it.
- Zach978, on 11/04/2007, -0/+5I remember in high school I knew many kids who smoked pot because it was easier to obtain than alcohol. Drug dealers will sell to anyone, whereas the gas station gets in a lot of trouble for selling to minors. Not to mention every highschool has a handful of drug dealers...never met an alcohol dealer though
- eerbin13, on 11/04/2007, -1/+6Nicotine is far worse than THC, any way you think about it...
- dime, on 11/04/2007, -0/+5What if all drugs were legal?
Well, you'd probably have a period of a couple years where people went wild just because they have all this newfound freedom... kind of like college students who leave home for the first time and ***** everything that moves while binge drinking.
But then it would calm down... some people would do drugs... some wouldn't... some could handle themselves... some couldn't... some would develop problems and commit crimes... some wouldn't...
Basically, it'd be exactly how it is now, except safer, taxable with far more room in our prisons... - APOI, on 11/04/2007, -0/+5And while we're at it, why don't we legalize prostitution. There's a law that makes no sense. I live in the San Fernando Valley, the porn capitol of the year. More people are getting paid to have sex on film here than anywhere else. It's legal to pay someone to have sex on film but it's illegal for two consenting adults to make a fair exchange of cash for services.
I have been an advocate for legalizing all drugs and my position is met with shock and resistance by most "normal" people. I believe that if you are just doing drugs and not hurting anyone else, then you are not committing a crime.
And big pharma is not in the business of selling cheap, and for that matter, safe drugs. I like the business model of the medical marijuana dispensaries. We need something like that only with Heroin, Ecstasy, Coke, etc.
Well, I can dream can't I? - jthomp3120, on 11/04/2007, -0/+5there is absolutely no evidence behind that.
just kidding - hydrodev, on 11/03/2007, -0/+5Ill tell you exactly what would happen. Just like alcohol prohibition, all the gangs and criminal dealers would no longer have a product to sell, which in turn means they have no money, no guns and no lexus to drive. The only thing this ***** up war does is give curropt officials and drug cartels LOTS OF MONEY.
- gbarberi, on 11/03/2007, -1/+6I dugg most of this article. I'm a little skeptical about the "free market" making now illegal drugs cheaper than they are on the street, especially addictive ones.
- dotlizard, on 11/04/2007, -0/+5oh please. alcoholics beat their kids. drunk cigarette smokers burn down houses. keeping drugs illegal does not stop ***** from ***** up. it just makes for much less criminalized activity, so that public service budgets can be spent dealing with only the substance abusers rather than chasing the substances themselves.
- dotlizard, on 11/04/2007, -0/+5illegal drug use makes you much more likely to violate someone's rights, than legal use does. if there isn't crime involved in purchasing and using, there's likely to be a lot less crime involved in coming up with ways to purchse.
people still steal alchol and cigarettes, but it's theft, not a complicated legal mess of possession, under the influence, and crime all the way up the supply chain. - natedouglas, on 11/03/2007, -0/+5It'd be nice to have THC content clearly marked on the package. :-)
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