What is Digg?342 Comments
- Aaryn015, on 10/12/2007, -27/+174I'm a big fan of "History doesn't always repeat" when it comes to the paths that nations take in History. e.g. I hate it when people try to compare the USA to Ancient Rome (and the draw lines to the decline of it).
But the parrallel between the governmental systems in USA today and Early-30s Germany is just plain scary. And I'm not even a yank.
Dugg
P.S. Note that I wasn't comparing Americans to Nazis. Merely the political language that has been generated by American lawmakers. - SimonKay, on 10/12/2007, -32/+128I agree the US is headed in that direction.
Some fascist characteristics(from Wikipedia) of the Bush and Republican Party:
-a militarist, nationalist and xenophobic ideology
-attempts to impose state control over all aspects of life: political, social, cultural, and economic
-explicit populist rhetoric and propaganda techniques applicated from crowd psychology - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -46/+114Prescott Bush...Karl Rove's pappy...some might say that a comparison to Nazi's is perfectly fair. Wah! Wah! I guess this makes me a member of the fringe left! C'mon you neo-con talking heads, digg me down!
- plarp, on 10/12/2007, -21/+81whats new with the facism.. it's what the democrats, and republicans have always wanted.. hense the reason we only have democrats, and republicans.
- bi0nikr, on 10/12/2007, -12/+58On the flip side, comparing the rest of the world's passiveness (need for diplomacy) toward countries such as Iran are also very much in parallel with how the British and French governments regarded (or disregarded) Germany in the 1930's. Both countries believe that Germany was not a threat and could be reasoned with diplomatically.
Winston Churchill was deemed a nut and war mongerer until Germany's intentions became apparent -- albeit too late for Europe. I believe this is relative to how the US goverment is viewed today.
However you draw these numerious comparisons though, it all leads to the same result -- world war. - DeadWisdom, on 10/12/2007, -7/+51@Chopp3rDave
Facism is a form of socialism. That's why it was called the "National Socialist Party". It is highly nationalized (patriotic) socialism.
Your basic political spectrum has two dimensions: Social Libertarianism vs. Authoritarianism, and Economic Libertarianism (Capitalist) vs Collectivism (Communist).
In America our two party system gets confused on this spectrum, for instance Neo-Con Republicans are Authoritarian-Capitalists but your Goldwater Republican is a Libertarian Capitalist. So you see a lot of Republicans defecting to the Libertarian party, for instance, which is strictly Libertarian-Capitalist.
Check out: http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Take the test, and then see how you match up against other historical figures. - CaptA, on 10/12/2007, -18/+61“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. They feed them on falsehoods till wrongs look like right in their eyes.” ~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe was a master of observation. Fastidious, articulate, very well educated and keen insight of people. To argue otherwise is to demonstrate that you haven't taken your medication and the "jacket" is in order.
I just love it when individuals say, "NEVER." As in - America isn't and never will be "fascist!" Oy vey! Where do we get such intellects? Well,,, there's plenty of egg for the faces of those that make such pompous statements! Ahhh ... youth! As profound as the thickness of a sheet of paper.
Good article Gene. - robustyoungsoul, on 10/12/2007, -4/+40For every never, there is a once.
- phenry, on 10/12/2007, -32/+68The sheeple are asleep. Pray they can be awakened in time.
- westwind429, on 10/12/2007, -7/+39You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
- hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -23/+54"If America was truly fascist, then articles like this, and comments like the ones above would never be allowed."
Can you make a case for this instead of just stating it as an unassailable fact?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
Fascism is a radical political ideology that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, nationalism, militarism, anti-anarchism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism.
Can you explain how your statement follows from the above, or how the above is inaccurate. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -15/+46Is it alright with you if I cry about our government repealing habeus corpus?
- rancemo, on 10/12/2007, -6/+31"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre." - Frank Zappa
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+36"If America was truly fascist, then articles like this, and comments like the ones above would never be allowed."
The logical extension of the above is that, therefore, there is nothing to worry about.
That is a circular argument. The reason that you can read articles like this is precisely because people worried, and continue to worry, a lot about it.
History has consistently shown that what government can take, it will. Money, freedom, property, ideology. Citizens must always be vigilant and wary of government overreaching. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+34We aren't heading in this direction? Are you insane? Look at the bill congress passed last week so bush and cheney can't be brought on charges of war crimes, etc.
Ask the man that was arrested for assault after stating to Cheney he doesn't agree with the Iraq war.
Did you know Bush is trying to pass a law that dissent = treason?
God forbid we have a different opinion on things and you know... excercise our ***** right to free speech, free thought, and free will.
He's ruining the country and with every vote and campaign dollar you contribute you help to our downfall. - karn, on 10/12/2007, -6/+26What I dont understand is when people speak of fascist america, they only blame bush.
This ***** has been going on for decades. What about the McCarthy era? It was much worse then than it is now. - Corgana, on 10/12/2007, -4/+24@theblooms
The point was that it's not *wrong* to be a communist in america. - toneii, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20It's "Kinder Gentler" fascism to go along with our new "compassionate torture" policy
- westwind429, on 10/12/2007, -9/+27Isn't it better to stop things BEFORE they get to the point of what you would call "a real fascist country" than to wait around doing nothing because it...I dunno, isn't bad enough yet or something?
- zensmile, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18Eminent Domain has been around a lot longer than 2 years ago... It is also not a practice limited to the US. You can find out more here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain - DisposableRob, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16The full Clinton quote from the article BTW is, "We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans to legitimately own handguns and rifles . . . that we are unable to think about reality."
- halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20@markgl
They why did you bother replying in the thread? - hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Wolfgang_von_Goethe
- TomRitchford, on 10/12/2007, -17/+31Let's take a look at that dictionary definition again, shall we?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Fascism
Let's take this step-by-step:
1. A governmental system led by a dictator having complete power...
+++ Last time I looked, we still have Congress, an ELECTED body of people, who have MORE power than the president.
Not only does the President's political party control Congress and the Senate and the Supreme Court, but said President has in fact said on multiple occasions that he was above the law.
2. ...forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism...
+++ Considering YOUR opposition and criticism comments are appearing here without restriction...
Did you read the article? The point of the bill is that in fact people criticizing the government can now be forcibly suppressed -- not supporting the government is now grounds for treason.
3. ...regimenting all industry, commerce, etc. ...
+++ Do you see the USA military controlling _any_ industry or commerce in the USA?
The US government controls all interstate and international commerce in the USA.
4. ...and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism...
+++ No one in the USA is forced to support nationalism. In fact, some ELECTED people in congress have re-defined such terms to be equal to aggressive dissent!
I think that if you do not believe that Bush and the Republicans have "emphasized an aggressive nationalism" then you are delusional.
5. ...and often racism.
+++ And which laws have the USA passed that mandate and force individual Americans to be racists?
It is not necessary to pass laws to be racist. For example, invading a country only because they were in the same ethnic group as people who attacked you would also be considered racist.
But perhaps that's not enough. Let's look at the next entry:
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator...
+++ Congress is STILL an ELECTED body, and we ELECT our president.
As I pointed out, all branches of the government are now controlled by a single party. (I shan't mention that it's entirely unclear that this President is the one we elected.)
2. ...stringent socioeconomic controls...
+++ Okay, here I might have to agree. The number of laws passed against the RICH people in the USA can indeed be described as "stringent socioeconomic controls".
3. ...suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship...
+++ You're opposing the USA government. Have you been censored or terrorized lately?
They arrested 1800 people in one day around here (New York City) because they were *intending to demonstrate against the Republican National Convention*. They hadn't yet demonstrated or in fact gathered at all -- they simply rounded up blocks full of people walking towards the demonstration -- including tourists who didn't speak English and had nothing to do with the whole thing -- and arrested them en masse on charges there were almost entirely faked. Once the video evidence from the protestors was revealed, over 95% of them were immediately released (but this took at least 33 hours and sometimes days). Interestingly enough, even though dozens of police perjured themselves to make these charges, they have not been disciplined in any way.
The only reason these innocent people aren't rotting in jail was that the judge is not a Republican appointee. As it was, they were forcibly detained for days, deprived of food and water and medication -- you'd better believe most of them are going to think twice before trying to demonstrate against the Republicans again!
4. ...and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
+++ I have heard the USA called many things, but "belligerent nationalists" isn't one of them.
Really! Have you ever talked to anyone from outside America?
I think "belilgerent nationalists" describes America to a T. I've been all over the world, and I've never seen such a nationalistic place as America. As for "belligerent", for the last 60 years there hasn't been one moment when US troups weren't fighting in some foreign countnry.
> Conclusion: No, the USA is NOT fascists, and we are far from being fascists.
Conclusion: the USA is descending rapidly into facism and the recent bill dismantling habeus corpus is the most obvious step yet. - halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18@DeadDragon
The issue at hand is that the US is heading in the direction of a fascist state. Habeus Corpus has been effectively repealed. This alone is one f the major cornerstones of civil liberties as we know them, and the concept was one of the first to be used to keep the power of a king in check. The suspension or removal of Habeus Corpus for ANY human beings within a nation is a significant and dangerous step towards despotism.
We need to stop this progression now, not wait until all dissenters are actually being tossed into secret prisons. If we wait until the USA is as bad as NAZI Germany was during the height of Hitler's power, it will be too late to do much of anything without massive bloodshed. - infopro, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18You don't have to worry about folks stepping in from the outside. It's the 5th column of inside perps with none but their own interests at heart & the hell with the rest of the country, that you have to worry about.
- Chopp3rDave, on 10/12/2007, -25/+38-attempts to impose state control over all aspects of life: political, social, cultural, and economic
Sounds like socialism to me!
OMG a hybrid Conservative-liberal! HEAD FOR THE HILLS! - zephc, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15Perhaps they are simply not making the mistake over previous totalitarian regimes, which is this: if you try to squeeze *too* much, you're going to end up with a revolt or war against you; however, if you squeeze just enough, and in the right places, you can maintain control and power over a majority of people, those unwilling to think critically, and only have to deal with a minority of dissenters.
It's a trade-off they can play (and possibly do play, for all we know). You can try to conquer the minds of *all* people, and face a fast doom, or try to conquer only *most* minds, and play out your control for much longer. In other words, if you suffer the people a few rights, you can control most of their other rights for much much longer. People will sit though just about any horse ***** until the storm troopers are rounding people up en mass for the death camps. Go somewhat short of the death camps, and you can theoretically maintain control indefinitely. - Scrubby, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18They haven't taken our guns yet. Actually, we have got some of those rights back (sunset of the AWB) in the last few years. When gun registration starts, then you know we are going the same direction as Nazi Germany.
- SchnellFowVay, on 10/12/2007, -17/+29I said it yesterday and I'll say it again -
Can we please get some intelligent people on here? Where did all the critical thinkers go? Many of you are chicken-little sheep who love to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon. THe man who wrote this article as an economist. Not a political scientist. Not a lawyer. Not a historian. Not a member of any legislature. He is no way qualified to make the conclusion he did.
That said, he certainly pointed out some valid points. As with most of these nut-job articles that get dugg up here, it fails to mention any negating facts. Anyone can point out similarities and draw fast conclusions. HEll, I can think of 5 - 10 similarities between the US and Candyland. Does that mean we are destined to become candyland?
Let me finish this rant with just a few questions to ask yourself if you truly believe the US is becoming a "fascist state."
1) How can you reconcile the USA's "fascism" with one of the world's most expansive allowances of freedom of speeh and expression?
2) How many of these people "torture," "held in detention," etc..., were citizens of the USA? This is in no way stating this treatment was correct - but it certainly goes to the appropriateness of the "Fascist" label.
3) How can you reconcile the USA's "fascism" with one of the world's freest and most unregulated markets?
4) How can you reconcile the USA's "fascism" with the most expanisve consitutional and institutional protections of private property and property rights in the world?
As a student of law and political history, I can't in good faith agree with many of my nation's (the USA's) current actions. Just because I disagree, however, does not mean I'm willing to start throwing labels around like "Fascist."
Some of you need to take a course in logic and/or critical thinking... - jknevitt, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14@Chopp3rDave:
(emphasis mine)
Communism. n.
A _totalitarian_ system of government in which a single _authoritarian_ party controls state-owned means of production.
Socialism. n.
Any of various economic and political theories advocating _collective or governmental_ ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.
National Socialism. n.
The body of political and economic doctrines held and put into effect by the Nazis in Germany from 1933 to 1945 including the _totalitarian principle of government, predominance of especially Germanic groups assumed to be racially superior, and supremacy of the führer._
Communism != Socialism != National Socialism. - makido, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16@kevin45
What's funny is how similar your type is. He blatantly stated that he doesn't agree with current U.S. policies, and you still treat him like he's some Republican shill. This is what he's talking about. The lack of critical thinking is mindboggling. There are better ways to deal with the world's problems than inciting panic. We all remember how the French Revolution turned out, no? - SoftwareSamurai, on 10/12/2007, -50/+60http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Fascism
Let's take this step-by-step:
1. A governmental system led by a dictator having complete power...
+++ Last time I looked, we still have Congress, an ELECTED body of people, who have MORE power than the president.
2. ...forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism...
+++ Considering YOUR opposition and criticism comments are appearing here without restriction...
3. ...regimenting all industry, commerce, etc. ...
+++ Do you see the USA military controlling _any_ industry or commerce in the USA?
4. ...and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism...
+++ No one in the USA is forced to support nationalism. In fact, some ELECTED people in congress have re-defined such terms to be equal to aggressive dissent!
5. ...and often racism.
+++ And which laws have the USA passed that mandate and force individual Americans to be racists?
But perhaps that's not enough. Let's look at the next entry:
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator...
+++ Congress is STILL an ELECTED body, and we ELECT our president.
2. ...stringent socioeconomic controls...
+++ Okay, here I might have to agree. The number of laws passed against the RICH people in the USA can indeed be described as "stringent socioeconomic controls".
3. ...suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship...
+++ You're opposing the USA government. Have you been censored or terrorized lately?
4. ...and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
+++ I have heard the USA called many things, but "belligerent nationalists" isn't one of them.
Conclusion: No, the USA is NOT fascists, and we are far from being fascists. - dgendreau, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12@VolatileWhimsy
Last time I checked, congress has not declared war. We are not in a state of war. We are currently entangled in a quasi-legal police action, not unlike Vietnam.
Bush has declared "war" on an idea (terrorism), not a particular government, which is a meaningless gesture to gain the support of conservatives. - monkeywizard, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17"2) How many of these people "torture," "held in detention," etc..., were citizens of the USA? This is in no way stating this treatment was correct - but it certainly goes to the appropriateness of the "Fascist" label."
Not many, but that's not the point. The point is, the government HAS the power to do this to citizens if they so chose. It doesn't mean you'll get locked up and tortured for rioting, but you *could*. It doesn't MATTER if it's being used or abused, what matters is that type of power is dangerous and goes against what this country was built upon.
"4) How can you reconcile the USA's "fascism" with the most expanisve consitutional and institutional protections of private property and property rights in the world?"
Eminent Domain - http://www.expertlaw.com/library/real_estate/eminent_domain.html . In recent times, WITHOUT just compensation. Flat out, if it's your land that you own, there's nothing they can say or do to take it, period. Yet they believe they can write you a check for how much your house is "worth" and be done. Doesn't work like that, yet they're letting it.
Keep in mind the government is also overusing "terrorism" and "national security" to promote their agenda.
Keep in mind all 3 branches of the government are under Republican control and there is no longer a system of checks and balances.
Keep in mind people are too afraid/lazy to speak up or act out.
There's plenty of non-kneejerk conclusions you can draw from this country's current state. Are we currently Nazi Germany? Nope. But the same manner that Germany fell in is what's going on NOW. In any case, it's NOT GOOD. - nukewinter, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14You are aware that this "left vs right" ***** is very annoying and played out yes? We are the same people, there is no real difference, the parties are just illusions of choice and with every regurgitation of liberal, conservative, democrat or republican we are only hurting ourselves as a nation. Get past the names and groups people.
- kreneskyp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12that it has been around longer or used elsewhere does not legitimize it. Imminent domain was previously used only to create things that benefit the public like parks, highways, etc. and in most cases the land had to be "blight".
People are losing their property because someone else wants to make money on something that isn't for sale, or for sale more than they want to pay. Local governments are declaring land "blight" just so they can legitimize their decisions to take land away from citizens. - InetRoadkill, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17Compare the recently passed laws here is the US (suspension of habeas corpus, secret courts/prisons, allowance of torture, etc.) to the circumstances leading to the nazi "enabling act". The US is running parallel to the events that gave rise to nazi germany. I'd say were right around 1930 at this point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act - SoftwareSamurai, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11@monkeywizard
"Keep in mind all 3 branches of the government are under Republican control and there is no longer a system of checks and balances."
"The republicans currently control all 3 branches of our government and obviously are closely tied to big business (the corporatism element of Fascism)."
---
I think you're confused over the term "checks and balances" as it relates to the US government.
The concept of "checks and balances" (in the US government) is NOT the balance of power between _political parties_.
It's the balance of power between the _branches_ of the US government. - p00nlog, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12If there's anything the internet needs, its more sensationalism.
- cybersaur, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15We may not be a fascist country yet, but we do seem to be heading in that direction. Suspension of habeus corpus is absolutely abhorrent. Once upon a time Americans used to be against secret prisons and torture. Wasn't the whole reason America got ticked off at Germany and Italy and Japan (and Saddam) because they attacked sovereign countries that posed no threat to them? Hasn't our government been co-opted by corporate interests? Doesn't the Bush regime constantly claim that those that oppose their policies support the enemies of the state? Don't we have one party rule?
There is ample evidence to support the proposition that America is assuming fascist tendencies. - nukewinter, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Billions? Let's be realistic now. I'm by no means a fan of our current administration, but you are stretching things a lot.
- jknevitt, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12@DeadWisdom:
Economic Left/Right: -9.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.62
I'd never ger elected.
Also, by your own source (www.politicalcompass.org), Hitler was a strong authoritarian and an economic centrist, not a socialist.
Fascism is primarily about authoritarianism, not economics. Socialism is primarily about economics, not authoritarianism. Just goes to show that not everything is named according to what is represents (example, the conservative 'Liberal Party' of Australia and elsewhere). - dgendreau, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13BZZZT!
Sorry. My grandparents are german. They moved here after WWII. They have said many times in the last few decades "This is how it all started in germany". - TomRitchford, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I am sorry about your family and of course the United States hasn't sunk to that level, yet, thank God. That's exactly why it's important to stop them now before the terrible part starts. Laws passed that make dissent illegal are a red flag to everyone!
In the memory of your family, now is the time to act before there is nothing we can do. - fireandlight27, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10"These "Sheeple" are stupid. Have you ever tried to argue for stem cell research to a fundamentalist Christian? They don't listen to other points of view."
It isn't stupidity, it's arrogance, a problem unfortunately not constrained to any one group. Person A has no interest in what Person B is saying because Person A assumes they are right. Person A is only involved in the conversation to change Person B's mind. Frequently Person B is doing the exact same thing. When you tried to argue for stem cell research with a fundamentalist Christian, did you come in thinking that they might have something valuable to say or simply assuming that they were one of the stupid "sheeple"? Everyone is yelling and nobody is listening, as long as that continues the power of the people to respond to government corruption will be diminished. - Xevec, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11We are on the road to fascism. There is much tyranny and government intervention in our economy. We have socialist programs like welfare, social security, and other redistributionist policies.
Also, there is this problem that people are saying that we aren't fascist because we have elected people. How do you think hitler got into office? Or Stalin? Or Mao? All these people were pretty oppressive people. Yet, the PEOPLE put them into office. They didn't get in there by force. Even in the comic "V for Vendetta" the "leader" got into his positition by votes.
Fascism is the combination of government and private individuals working together for a common good. STRENGTH THROUGH UNITY! UNITY THROUGH FAITH!
If you want to see fascist workings...read the book "the third wave." It was also produced as a TV movie. It was about a teacher teaching his kids about world war II. The kids kept on asking how could the german people follow someone like hitler. He decided to train them like the hitler youth to demonstrate. He talked about community...and how community enables everyone to accomplish their goals. Invidividuals themselves can't accomplish much...but through community, anything can be achieved. He placed the "common good" over the individual. The kids followed.
People say that also we aren't fascist because the writer managed to write something like that. First of all, a GOOD oppressor wouldn't do that sort of censorship. They must give some sort of illusion of freedom in order to make it look like we aren't being oppressed. But alas, our government steals from us everyday. They continue to regulate our lives and make us feel that they are smarter than us. Smarter as in that they know our bodies BETTER than we do(aka: drug laws). - Koosebane, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15@SchnellFowVay
Don't fret over common 'the sky is falling!' fallacies that have permeated the Internet. They are designed to appeal to the global anti American government movement that is wildly popular with the typical young, undereducated and unsurprisingly naive Internet surfer.
It's all big business designed to generate clicks and traffic.
AMERICA IS TEH FASCIST! will attract the armchair activist every damn time. The media knows this and takes full advantage of the knee jerk reactions of the under informed. It's simply good, old fashioned fear mongering designed to incite the dim in order to generate revenue. -
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